34 réponses à ce sujet

[DeadlyElvenMage]

Okay so I get that mage-templar romantic relationships are forbidden. For obvious reasons (could you kill your lover? Watch as your child is taken away and not be able to help the one you love when they are hurting? Would you be able to put aside your feelings if they were practicing blood magic? It makes sense not to allow mages and templars to fall in love. 

 

But, What about friendship?

 

I hate when people go on like all the templars are evil and horrible and hate all magic and all mages. When evidence in the games and books clearly shows otherwise. Yeah there are a couple corrupt ones, as in any organisation, and there are some who would follow a corrupt leader blindly. But I do believe many are good, regular people who want to serve the chantry and follow andraste and protect the mages. 

 

With that in mind, are friendships forbidden between mages and templars?

Do mages get in trouble for speaking with a templar?

Do they engage in small talk?

Do they speak to them as an equal?

Are they actually allowed to speak with each other?

Or play a game of chess?

 

If friendships are forbidden, what would happen if a friendship was found out? Would the mage be punished, would the Templar? Would they engage in a secret friendship? 

 

I am very curious about general life in the circle as it something that has never really been mentioned much in games. While the templars are off duty, where do they go? Are they locked in their rooms (they have their own quarters so they must live there/spend a lot of time there) Or do they go to the library etc and spend time around the mages?

 

[Ghost Gal]

I'm sure casual small talk is fine.

 

Just don't let it get so deep that it could compromise the Templar's ability to treat the mage impartially. Templars, after all, need to watch mages for any sign of corruption, and be ready to hack them in two if they even think about using blood magic or demon summon. A close friendship could compromise that as well as a romance. 

[MisterJB]

Lavella is likely right. Friendship could prevent the Templar from doing what is necessary if the time comes so, they are likely discouraged. A Templar who became too close to the mages under his charge may be reassigned somewhere else.

 

A good example is Thrask. His intentions may have been good but he was killed by mages he trusted and was trying to help.

[Illegitimus]

Templars are under the circle system are prison guards.  Prison guard/prisoner friendships do happen, but there are obvious problems.  

[Treacherous J Slither]

The Circles still exist?

[Ashagar]

The Circles still exist?

 

In even the settings where you sided with the mages often yes which is honestly the fault of the rebel mages. You see when you try to murder everyone who has a different opinion or wished to say neutral to free them in death they tend to not like you very much. There is a reason why of the mage endings tend to have rumors of a war between mages brewing.

[Treacherous J Slither]

In even the settings where you sided with the mages often yes which is honestly the fault of the rebel mages. You see when you try to murder everyone who has a different opinion or wished to say neutral to free them in death they tend to not like you very much. There is a reason why of the mage endings tend to have rumors of a war between mages brewing.

A war between mages? Over what?

[thesuperdarkone2]

In even the settings where you sided with the mages often yes which is honestly the fault of the rebel mages. You see when you try to murder everyone who has a different opinion or wished to say neutral to free them in death they tend to not like you very much. There is a reason why of the mage endings tend to have rumors of a war between mages brewing.

Not if Leliana is Divine, then mages become accepted. In fact, the mages seem to be doing just fine years after the circles are dissolved. 

 

Also, notice how the Templars rebel against Vivienne if she's divine?

[Ashagar]

A war between mages? Over what?

 

Old scores, the rebel mages ran around murdering and attempting to murder any mages were A loyalists or b. wanted to be neutral and hide to free them in death. You really think mages who went into the loyalist faction or went into hiding would really be welcoming to people who were actively trying to murder them for their own good?

 

 

Not if Leliana is Divine, then mages become accepted. In fact, the mages seem to be doing just fine years after the circles are dissolved. 

 

Also, notice how the Templars rebel against Vivienne if she's divine?

 

Being accepted(I have my serious doubts about that) does nothing about the issues between mages which are responsible for the rumors of war between mages. As I said the loyalists faction and the neutral mages aren't realistically going to accept people who before that actively trying to murder them for their own good and did murder people they knew. There is a debt of blood the former rebel mages owe the loyalist and neutral mages.

[Lazarillo]

Not if Leliana is Divine, then mages become accepted. In fact, the mages seem to be doing just fine years after the circles are dissolved.

Even Divine Leliana has no rainbows and unicorns ending for the Mages.  If Leliana is Divine, Vivienne re-starts the Circle anyway, and the two end up in more or less of a cold war with the two groups competing for power.  Plus, Divine Leliana more or less causes the Thedas-equivalent of the Reformation, with a bunch of people going "that isn't the real Chantry anymore" and starting their own competing group.

 

If anything, I daresay Leliana, for all her ideals, only ends up making the situation worse.

[Force of the North]

I think the clearest comparison would be do prison guards become friends with inmates? It is rare do they talk, yes, but true friendship would almost crossover into the realm of love. Would you be able to kill a good childhood friend if ordered to by your boss?

[Vanilka]

There are rules against fraternisation, so templars aren't allowed to be friends with mages. The reason for it being, as others have already mentioned, that it could compromise their ability to act and generally do their job. It doesn't matter if it's a friend or a crush, it's still emotional involvement.

 

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, though. Samson smuggled love letters for one of the mages which eventually led to him losing his job as a templar. Wynne had a baby with a templar. Before going through all the abuse, Cullen was rather friendly and even encouraged the Warden to talk to him (at least if you play a woman). So, yeah, I think even templars and mages find a way to be friends and more, regardless of it being a really big no-no. Makes sense, too. I don't think you can keep people together 24/7 without anybody getting ideas - friendly and otherwise. In the end, people are people.

 

The fact is, though, that it's not allowed. However, I'd assume that each Circle is different in how strictly it adheres to these rules. (I wonder whether they all even follow them.) Or, well, it wasn't allowed. I'm quite curious about what'll happen to the Circles existing post-Inquisition.

[Asdrubael Vect]

 

I hate when people go on like all the templars are evil and horrible and hate all magic and all mages. When evidence in the games and books clearly shows otherwise. Yeah there are a couple corrupt ones, as in any organisation, and there are some who would follow a corrupt leader blindly. But I do believe many are good, regular people who want to serve the chantry and follow andraste and protect the mages. 

 

I am very curious about general life in the circle as it something that has never really been mentioned much in games. While the templars are off duty, where do they go? Are they locked in their rooms (they have their own quarters so they must live there/spend a lot of time there) Or do they go to the library etc and spend time around the mages?

 

But they are evil by any moral and law point of view, they serve to this organisation and Seekers what for 900 years do the worst things to Thedas and nothing good...Lord Seeker speaks the truth of their whole Orlais Chantry and Templars and their lies. crimes, exalted marshes, all circles abuses and allianages was their work since death of first Inquisition and they even rid of thuth about Inquisitior Ameridan as others like him in first Inquisition

 

Templar Order and this organisation members exist to hunt and killl or imprison mages and when they are drag them in Circle they are torture, execute or lobotomise them and mages have no right and freedoms(they are worst than slaves and peasants)..templars can kill, beat and rape mages as they wish and noone care, templars not touch only Enchanters and high ranking mages in Circle cos they are to valuable so they(usually High ranking Templars and Seekers) just tranquil or execute them when they need it

 

Mages are live in concentration camps and work(they are not live for free and Templars as Chantry riches came from mages services and enchanted items, mages get almost nothing for their work compare from Templars and Chantry...even high ranking Enchanters in main Chanty Circle said that they eat and drink garbage compare to templars) for Orlais Chantry-Seekers

 

And Templars are serve as hunters, jailors and executers of mages, "heretics" and bodyguard of Chantry priestes cos they affraid of apostages mages and non-andrastians heretics who are hate Chantry and Templars who do their hunts and kill many of them cow they are not bow to Chantry

 

Templars perfectly know about what they do and if they are not join to punish mages and have money(and Chantry pay a lot for them) they are raised to be Templars and teached propoganda by Orlais Chantry that nonandrastians and magic are bad and mages are worst living things and not as a peoples, that they cos all bad things and deserve all bad thing and be killed by Templars what are do Maker will...Templars are fanatics and are like terorist who belive that they do Maker job and go to heavens for their kills

 

Templars "protection of mages" is lobotomise and killing mages as not allow them to normaly(south mages in Circles officially have the worst magic education compare to Tevinter. Nevarra and others, especially dalish and barbarians) teach magic and other stuff cos Templars are know that mage are do revolt against them, and they do a revolution after 20 right of annulment and Seekers stuff on mages conclave as Templars try to rid from Enchanters who vote against Chantry and Templars ruleship over their lives

 

Many mages run and prefer to die and turn themself to deamon rather than return to Templars or be tranquiled

 

The only Templars who are friend of mages are the worst Templars and those who hate Order, usually they are minor and secretly has or still have mages as relatives and join in order(hiding the truth) to protect mages from other Templars as they can, and many help them to run from Cirlces....those Templars like Trusk and others like him

 

 

About can mages speak with Templars not really and they are try to avoid(Templars look on mages from distance in library and etc) them and report to Templars rather than speak, especially with officers...only Enchaters can allow some normal talks but they not do them much for obvious reasons..only  first enchanters and loyalist zealots do with them and priests but mostly on religion stuff and reports about others mages

 

Mages usually even get whiped by Templars for speaking, especially with outsiders

 

 

Yeah some young Templars can sweet talk with some unexperienced female mages and could persuare them and have "love" sexual relationship what always turns bad for mages and nothing for Templars who after using them just avoid them(and noone care and just close eyes on that Templar do this as with rapes) and female mages get punished, even tranquiled for childrens(especially if couple of mages love each others and produce childrens) and Chantry get rif from them or send in other Circles if they need those mages childrens

 

Templars have their own quarters and their own food and drinks what are much and much better than what mages, even high ranking enchanters have...mages kids and not. who are not survive to become enchanters live in dirty barraks with worst conditions ever..only their clothers are not bad looking cos mages themselfs produce it with magic

 

The only mages who live "normal" is those who are childrens from noble or rich and influenced families, those who care about their childrens who become mages(usually nobles try to hide their magic or get rid from them)...those rich childrens will become loyalist and most religious ones(usually their parents already are) or the first ones who try to run or rebel against Cirlces cos they perfectly know how bad is Chantry Cirlce life

[Ashagar]

Done demonizing the templars and the circles? I could go into how the rebel mages are just as bad as the worse of the Templars but that has nothing to do with the topic which isn't about the murder happy radicals on either side but ordinary mages and Templars the relations of which tended to vary circle to circle. Not every circle was Kirkwall nor were they like the one of Fereldin' two circles where enchanters could go off into the woods by themselves to look for plants or ask and be allowed to leave the circle for tasks or research.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Done demonizing the templars and the circles? I could go into how the rebel mages are just as bad as the worse of the Templars but that has nothing to do with the topic which isn't about the murder happy radicals on either side but ordinary mages and Templars the relations of which tended to vary circle to circle. Not every circle was Kirkwall nor were they like the one of Fereldin' two circles where enchanters could go off into the woods by themselves to look for plants or ask and be allowed to leave the circle for tasks or research.

We do not need to demonize Templar Order organisation in any bit to see and know what they do for milenia by Seeekers and Orlais Chantry(who was a Seekers puppets until Justinia who go agains Seekers and Templars as Orlais Chantry itself) laws and rights...rebelion mages who are hiding and fight for their lives when they are officially ordered to be executed are not a members of organisation and not serve anyone and not have any structure and each of them survive as they can, some as Qunari tal-vashots in Thedas..they cant go anywhere exept some run to north and some go to Wardens to serve in their ranks, and sure they cant surrender cos this would be death or tranqulity for them

 

Templars are member of the Order and they serve to the Order what do all bad things what we know for 900 years, if Templar do not do what he was ordered and what Order do, he is not a Templar and betrayal of the Templar Order

 

Templars exist to hunt and kill or inprison mages in concentration camps, do tranquils, rights of annulment and execute mages as do hunt and execute nonandrastian and andrastians heretics, as kill nobles who are try to go agians Chantry and Templars govermenship like we see in Kirkwal(and in other places too what is mentioned in lore) what was sanctioned by Chantry since execuion of Kirkwall ruler and puttin puppet Dumar and after his death they took all controll and all expecially nobles was not happy at all

 

And Ferelden is not have strong Orlais influense since Meric was with Orlais and they as Loghain wanted send Chantry Templars away after 5 Blight what we was know sinse DA2 what have Alister as Theagan there, so this is your answer how some ENCHANTERS(enchanters is a high ranking mages and i do not even who those are but i have a answer for this question) can go alone what is FORBITTEN and they cant go outside(only if we have blight or qunari high nobles of country ask help) without templars what even was clear sinse DAO and Anders run from ferelden Cirlce to get outside and enchanters save him from punishments cos he was a valuable healer

 

All Chantry Circles was bad concentration camps and all of them. no matter of minor differences and how strong was Orlais Chantry controll in the country where they where putted have those things what was allowed by the Orlais Chantry laws and all mages by the Orlais Chantry laws have no rights and freadoms

[Vanilka]

Done demonizing the templars and the circles? I could go into how the rebel mages are just as bad as the worse of the Templars but that has nothing to do with the topic which isn't about the murder happy radicals on either side but ordinary mages and Templars the relations of which tended to vary circle to circle. Not every circle was Kirkwall nor were they like the one of Fereldin' two circles where enchanters could go off into the woods by themselves to look for plants or ask and be allowed to leave the circle for tasks or research.

 

I was considering reacting to it myself, but there's so much bias, hysteria and incorrect info in that post that I felt exhausted just by reading it. So thanks for taking it upon yourself. You have my sympathy.

[SwobyJ]

Not supposed to happen, but it happens. Probably more often in the more permissive Circles.

 

And I have personal theories about the nature of Templars and Mages (lyrium and how they're put/exist in each?) can bring its own largely undetectable friction.

 

But yeah all that stuff you listed can happen. Most of the time it does not. Mages and Templars are Others to each other. DAI however changes all that, or at least changes it to a degree that we can expect more positive relationships between the two (or what remains of both factions/types of people). The kinds of changes beyond that, depends on our choices and how we interpret the ending.

 

Structurally, the Templars were absolutely not supposed to be anything but cordial to Mages and only helpful enough to have safe operations of the Circles.

[SugarBabe49]

Enchanter Ellandra, from the Hinterlands, when you recruit her says that Mattrin was her friend before they were lovers and that she had friends with both Mages and Templars that she lost thank to the war.

 

So I do think friendship were possible.

 

Look at Irving and Greagoir - they seemed hostile to each other at first (if you played Mage Origins) yet Greagoir says to the Warden that they would only accept Irving being alive as proof of the circle being safe and is kind to him when Irving is brought back - indicating that there is some friendship there.

 

Ser Thrask was a kind templar who tried his hardest to protect the mages, telling the group - if you convinced them to return to the circle - that he would protect them. He is even seen helping them in a later quest (although it was misguided) but it showed that there are elements.

 

I get the feeling that each circle is different on how firm it is regarding friendship.  Kinloch Hold seemed quite...lax - if one could say that - regarding friendship between Templars and Mages whereas the Kirkwall Circle proves that any type/hint of friendly feelings (even between mages) were discouraged due to Samson being kicked out and turning Karl into a tranquil due to his letters to/from Anders.

 

(I have never read asunders so I have no idea if there are any friendships).

 

So I think, on one hand - templars and mages were encouraged to at least talk to each other, that way if one of them have fears, they would be able to try and assuage it but on the other hand, they would have been discouraged not to form too deep friendships in case Templars were unable to do their jobs.

[MisterJB]

Done demonizing the templars and the circles? I could go into how the rebel mages are just as bad as the worse of the Templars but that has nothing to do with the topic which isn't about the murder happy radicals on either side but ordinary mages and Templars the relations of which tended to vary circle to circle. Not every circle was Kirkwall nor were they like the one of Fereldin' two circles where enchanters could go off into the woods by themselves to look for plants or ask and be allowed to leave the circle for tasks or research.

Man, don't engage Asdrubael in conversation.

It's fine to point and laugh but if you try to talk with him, he'll start claiming that Tevinter is 95% elven.

Seriously.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Man, don't engage Asdrubael in conversation.

It's fine to point and laugh but if you try to talk with him, he'll start claiming that Tevinter is 95% elven.

Seriously.

 I am sure that will be no proof for such bullsh*t what never happened, cos i am never said such things, nothing even close for what that you just made by yourself and claim that i was write something like this

 

so please atleast lie harder and smarter next time

I was considering reacting to it myself, but there's so much bias, hysteria and incorrect info in that post that I felt exhausted just by reading it. So thanks for taking it upon yourself. You have my sympathy.

Ok lady please pick and reveal at least few or just one incorrect info what i was posted here if there is so much as you talk

 

Not supposed to happen, but it happens. Probably more often in the more permissive Circles.

 

But yeah all that stuff you listed can happen. Most of the time it does not. Mages and Templars are Others to each other. DAI however changes all that, or at least changes it to a degree that we can expect more positive relationships between the two (or what remains of both factions/types of people). The kinds of changes beyond that, depends on our choices and how we interpret the ending.

 

Structurally, the Templars were absolutely not supposed to be anything but cordial to Mages and only helpful enough to have safe operations of the Circles.

Rape stuff and beating mages just for laught, yes that the only stuff what is not(as any relationship with mages what templars do too) supposed to happen

 

But nothing in Circle stop members of the Templar Order and protect mages by the law and Templars do not have any punishment for such as everyone close eyes for such things

 

...all other as hunting and draging in circles or killing, torture, executions, right of annulments. tranquil it is their job as following the orders without doubt exept if they are clearly violate orders of Chantry and Seekers, and actuallly orders of the Seekers are more valuable for Templar even then a Divine orders what was shown in Asunder, cos even with the high ranking enchanters from the elite Chantry Circle who lived near Divine herself and was working near Divine herself showed how it was bad and those are revolt too

 

Structurally Templars are the zealots army of Chantry-Seekers(who perfectly know that there is no need to Templars existence(cos Templars was must be created via Seekers way and Seekers does not want that) and lyrium drugs exept for Seekers need only what was revealed by lord Seeker), they follow the orders of them and kill mages, "heretics" and nobles who try to not obey Chantry as you see in Kirkwall and can learn from lore

 

Templars never help or teach mages in Circle only observe and punish/execute/tranquil them if they try to run from Circle or consider(and there is clearly no straight rules and restrictions about what Templar can consider as bad to kill mage exept only not obey orders of Templar and clear deamon turning and blood mage stuff) them dangerous, and thats all....and there is no limitation of Templars powers what they use for mages and nonmages(who is not a nobles what they try to secretly kill) too

 

In DAI ending we see the end of old Orlais Chantry as Seekers and Seekers Templars who can be banned of reformed to serve Cassandra or Mages and be more like in Tevinter and Nevarra, no matter what they will not have rights and powers as they have before, they are not the same Templar Order what South Thedas have for 900 years

 

 

 

Enchanter Ellandra, from the Hinterlands, when you recruit her says that Mattrin was her friend before they were lovers and that she had friends with both Mages and Templars that she lost thank to the war.

 

So I do think friendship were possible.

 

Look at Irving and Greagoir - they seemed hostile to each other at first (if you played Mage Origins) yet Greagoir says to the Warden that they would only accept Irving being alive as proof of the circle being safe and is kind to him when Irving is brought back - indicating that there is some friendship there.

 

Ser Thrask was a kind templar who tried his hardest to protect the mages, telling the group - if you convinced them to return to the circle - that he would protect them. He is even seen helping them in a later quest (although it was misguided) but it showed that there are elements.

 

I get the feeling that each circle is different on how firm it is regarding friendship.  Kinloch Hold seemed quite...lax - if one could say that - regarding friendship between Templars and Mages whereas the Kirkwall Circle proves that any type/hint of friendly feelings (even between mages) were discouraged due to Samson being kicked out and turning Karl into a tranquil due to his letters to/from Anders.

 

(I have never read asunders so I have no idea if there are any friendships).

 

So I think, on one hand - templars and mages were encouraged to at least talk to each other, that way if one of them have fears, they would be able to try and assuage it but on the other hand, they would have been discouraged not to form too deep friendships in case Templars were unable to do their jobs.

first i said about this "Templars" who was become true friends-lovers(cos many just be like Saddat or rapists like ser Otto) with mages and protect mages from Templar Order as many have relatives who are mages what is forbitten if you are not  a noble and those Templars hide that info

 

they are not a Templars and they are against Templar Order and Seekers, they are the worst Templars in the Order who are betrayals of Templar Order

 

Thrask, Carver(Friend of Malkolm Hawke), Evangeline, Reimas(The last flight book) all this "good Templars" are not a Templars and go against Templar Order

 

Enchanter Ellanna from Ferelden was a Aequtanian-mostly a Loyalist mage and her lover(what even said in his letter) go agains Templar Order, and they were in Ferelden what was have a bad Orlais Chantry controll and mages since war with Orlais and the old Gregoir poor command and Irving controll, bribe many templars(we clearly know it in DAO and have quest what was involve there) by lyrium what they have from Orzammar...and yeah there was almost no Chantry controll over Ferelden circles after Loghain involment and after 5 Blight what we know from DA2 and Alister/Anora protect mages from Chantry and Orlais Empire

 

 

Gregoir was "good one" when he was old addicted Templar and was bribed by mages(who with Irving even give many weak rogue ones to him to he was belief that they are loyal) with lyrium for his addiction and especially after they save him from assasin of apostage blood mage what was try to punish him for all bad stuff what he was do against mages, and younger Grefoir was a pure bastard and even beat pregnant mages like Veness who have a child from a templar Saddat

 

Templar Thrask have a mage daughter in Circle what he hide that she was his daughter to protect her from Templars, and she was become crazy of Templars care and run as died after begging and turning herself to deamon when she was hunted to a corner and was to be killed or raped

 

Thrask is died cos of plothole(as with Orsino who turn himself to deamon no matter what, by this at least can be understandable that everyone for who he was care was die and he have no reason to live so he is try to kill more templars before they kill him) that some mage and mages supporter ex-templars belief that Hawke was a Meredith agent even if he was kill all of Meredith Templars and help mages...and yeah Thrask with others try to peacefully go against Meredith and Cullen ruleship over Kirkwall but Cullen stop him as others to even do a reports to a new Divine about Meredith

 

 

As i said the only Chantry Cirlces where life of mages(mostly enchanters and high ranking, but not aprentices) was slightly better is the Chantry Circles who was in countries with smaller Orlais Chantry and Templars controll and where Templars was bribed with lyrium...and we know that Seekers with Templars after they was know about such do a right of annulment there as in Rivain and others and this is why mages revolt after Kirkwall and other stuff what Templars and Seekers do

 

Friendship as any relationship with mages is banned for Templars and Templars Order as Seekers(do not put Cassandra who was most of her life serve as Divine bodyguard and not know anything true about Seekers and Templars) is propoganded that Mages are worst living things who are sinners, many loyalist mages was so propoganded that they believe that they are wost thing ever and it would be better if they would be traquiled, and they are

[DeadlyElvenMage]

Asdrubael, most of your information goes AGAINST what has been defined as canon. Canonically, the templar order was created because mages are dangerous. As children, they cannot control their magic, as proven by connor (eamon's son who was possessed) and also by what wynne said, that she set another child on fire. The creation of circles was the humane way to teach them how to control their powers. 

The circle also protects the mages from the outside world, In asunder, a whole tavern almost turns to fight the small group of mages just because it's their fault some stuff, that had nothing to do with those specific mages, happened. Wynne mentions in origins that the templars saved her from the villagers. Magic is dangerous, and therefore it scares people. When afraid, people will lash out. 

 

The templars are NOT perfect, and kirkwall is the worst circle i have seen in game, and yes unjust tranquility was the problem there. Not all that rape and murder. That has been mentioned as something that RARELY EVER happens, and when it does, it is noticed, and does go punished. If there is a blood mage there, yes the templars will try and blame all actions on them. But do you know what, THE TEMPLARS ARE NOT PERFECT BUT THEY ARE NEEDED. THEY ARE NEEDED TO PROTECT MAGES AND THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE THEIR JOB. There has only been 1/2 actualy "evil" templars throughout ALL the games and books. The majority of the rest simply followed a leader blindly. 

 

And ANYWAY this has brought this really off topic. I was not on about racist templars or mages good templars bad. I was on about normal, ordinary circles, BEFORE the Ander's incident.(as it all started kicking off after that) And whether the Templars, doing their ORDINARY jobs ever formed friendship with mages. and the repercussions of this.

[Vanilka]

Ok lady please pick and reveal at least few or just one incorrect info what i was posted here if there is so much as you talk

 
*sigh*
 

1) they serve to this organisation and Seekers what for 900 years do the worst things to Thedas and nothing good...
 
2) Lord Seeker speaks the truth of their whole Orlais Chantry and Templars and their lies. crimes, exalted marshes, all circles abuses and allianages was their work since death of first Inquisition and they even rid of thuth about Inquisitior Ameridan as others like him in first Inquisition.

 

1) Templars do not serve the Seekers, they serve the Chantry. The Seekers are only supposed to oversee them.
 
2) Lord Seeker speaks of the issues and lies within the Seeker order, not the Templar order. Seems to me you have trouble differentiating between the Chantry, Seekers, and Templars.
 

1) templars can kill, beat and rape mages as they wish and noone care
 
2) Templars as Chantry riches came from mages services and enchanted items, mages get almost nothing for their work compare from Templars and Chantry.

 
1) Complete bullshit and you know it. This is why I didn't and still don't want to have this discussion. Because you straight up make things up and present them as facts.
 
2) Right. Except that Templars give up wealth when they join the order.
 

1) Templars perfectly know about what they do and if they are not join to punish mages and have money(and Chantry pay a lot for them) they are raised to be Templars and teached propoganda by Orlais Chantry that nonandrastians and magic are bad and mages are worst living things and not as a peoples, that they cos all bad things and deserve all bad thing and be killed by Templars what are do Maker will...Templars are fanatics and are like terorist who belive that they do Maker job and go to heavens for their kills
 
2) Templars are fanatics and are like terorist who belive that they do Maker job and go to heavens for their kills

 
1) Except that the belief that magic is to serve man and never rule over him is the core idea of the Chantry. The Templars are meant to protect from magic and there is much to be protected from given mages can get possessed and become abominations, given that some mages can't control their magic, given that not all mages are good guys. Go talk to Wynne or Minaeve who were saved by Templars as little girls. The Templars are meant to be guardians and protectors. Some Circles deviated from that path, yes, but that's the problem of the organisation as a whole, some of the Templars being part of the problem. It's idiotic to blame the sword instead of the person who wields it. The Harrowing is the perfect example of an abhorrent practice inflicted upon mages by mages, done in Tevinter too where Templars are not an issue at all.
 
2) Please, find a dictionary and study what a "terrorist" is. And there's no such thing as Templars going "to heavens for their kills". If you're going to claim this sort of bullshit, provide a source to back it up or get out.
 

Templars "protection of mages" is lobotomise and killing mages as not allow them to normaly teach magic and other stuff

 
Except that Templars' job is to watch mages for signs of corruption and the Circles as such are about mages getting education and shelter. Abusing, killing or making innocent mages tranquil is a crime. It is literally against the law which you can find out during DAII if you actually bother to listen to anything besides yourself. Is forcing unskilled mages to become tranquil a barbaric practice? Sure it is. (Newsflash: Some do it willingly.) But there are still laws to protect mages. There are exceptions to the rule like Kirkwall (Meredith and Elthina still opposed the suggestion to make all mages tranquil, though.), but that's because Kirkwall was full of freaking psychos on both sides.
 

Mages usually even get whiped by Templars for speaking, especially with outsiders

 
Here you go making stuff up again. Can you give me a few examples? Since you claim that this "usually" happens, then there must be plenty, right?
 

Yeah some young Templars can sweet talk with some unexperienced female mages and could persuare them and have "love" sexual relationship what always turns bad for mages and nothing for Templars who after using them just avoid them(and noone care and just close eyes on that Templar do this as with rapes) and female mages get punished, even tranquiled for childrens(especially if couple of mages love each others and produce childrens) and Chantry get rif from them or send in other Circles if they need those mages childrens

 
Hey, look, more made up stuff. Mages getting made tranquil for having children. Right. I guess Wynne was a super special exception. And she lied in that conversation she had with Alistair about it. And so did Anders.
 

Templars have their own quarters and their own food and drinks what are much and much better than what mages, even high ranking enchanters have...mages kids and not. who are not survive to become enchanters live in dirty barraks with worst conditions ever..only their clothers are not bad looking cos mages themselfs produce it with magic

 
I wonder if we've even played the same game, especially looking at the last line.
 

The only mages who live "normal" is those who are childrens from noble or rich and influenced families, those who care about their childrens who become mages(usually nobles try to hide their magic or get rid from them)...those rich childrens will become loyalist and most religious ones(usually their parents already are) or the first ones who try to run or rebel against Cirlces cos they perfectly know how bad is Chantry Cirlce life

 
Except that nobles get sent to the Circle just like the children of commoners do. Just look at Emile de Launcet. I certainly didn't see any special treatment there. Hell, the fact there should be no exceptions is the whole point of Redcliffe in DAO. Since the Circles differ from each other, the rules and their strictness will vary, too.
 
Etc.
 
Do I agree with the idea of the Circles being forced upon mages? No. Do I think they are perfect the way they were in DAO or DAII? No. But the concept (providing safe place and education) is good. Actually, it was invented by mages. The Circles were made compulsory later by the Chantry and Inquisition. The Templars were created later to make sure mages do end up in Circles and to protect people (including mages) from the dangers of magic. (Check the wiki or something.) You blame Templars for every single thing, not realising they're merely a part of a broken system and that they're a bunch of individuals - good and bad, great and horrible - just like mages are a bunch of individuals.
 

And that's all just the tip of the ice berg. So, let's sum your first post up:
- You make things up,
- you mistake Templars with the Chantry and with Seekers, you randomly put them on the same pile,
- your knowledge of lore and the world is severely lacking,
- your bias is showing.

This is why I didn't want to participate in this discussion. And this is why I will not continue it from here. I have better things to do than dealing with somebody who uses lies as arguments.

[Vanilka]

And ANYWAY this has brought this really off topic. I was not on about racist templars or mages good templars bad. I was on about normal, ordinary circles, BEFORE the Ander's incident.(as it all started kicking off after that) And whether the Templars, doing their ORDINARY jobs ever formed friendship with mages. and the repercussions of this.

 
My apologies for the digression. To continue the topic... I reread your questions and, in my opinion, if a mage and a templar had fun together, I think it's likely the templar would be the one more severely punished. They're on duty after all. (Makes you wonder how much free time templars get, how they're allowed to spend it, etc.) I assume it would be like a teacher getting a little too familiar with their student. Samson lost his job over this and I believe his mage friend got made tranquil, but Kirkwall was a frigging purgatory and I don't think it's a good example for much beyond how low an order could sink. (It's still a great example of a templar willing to sacrifice everything just to deliver a love letter to a mage friend every now and then.) I assume there would be some finger-wagging involved in normal circumstances. It's possible the mage would get some, too, and might get told not to distract the templars any more. I'm sure more serious repercussions could follow for templars that would keep doing it (or getting caught doing it anyway, lol).

[dragonflight288]

It changes based on the Circle. 

 

Meredith was a hardliner. Chantry law dictates templars cannot use the Rite of Tranquility as punishment, but if you trick the templars into another direction, when they catch the mages she tranquilizes three of them at random to serve as an example, or executes three at random if they return peacefully. We hear bits and pieces of lore where mages are outright denied the right to even form romantic realtionships in Kirkwall. In Inquisition Cullen says she wielded the brand for lesser offenses than asking a templar to deliver a love letter. 

 

But in Ferelden in Origins there is a lot more freedom. As Vivienne says, in order to leave a Circle one only needed permission from the First Enchanter. Gregoire is a pretty decent templar and he takes his duty seriously. He's also one of the only templars who'll take the word of a mage, Irving, over the word of a Templar, Cullen, in how to proceed once the crises is over. The note found on the templars body that had been enthralled by a desire demon in the tower shows that Gregoire was also cracking down his own templars if they were out of line. An attribute that cannot in any way be made about Meredith in a reasonable manner.

 

But then you have horrendous abuses, like that shield with the item description that outright says a Right of Annultment was called to cover up the fact that a single templar was killing mages for sport and out of his hatred of them. Kill every man, woman and child to hide the actions of the single templar, and Kirkwall's templars had the zealots in positions of power, people who hated mages and had no problem abusing them, and the people who didn't, didn't. In Cullen's own codex entry it says he was made Knight-Captain because his views on mages at the time mirrored Meredith's. 

 

I imagine that friendships and romances did exist, such as between Malcolm Hawke and Merevar Carver, a friendship Malcolm respected so much he named his son after a Templar. That mage who had a templar lover in Inquisition, Wynne who had a son with a templar, Cullen before his torture at the hands of Uldred.

 

Vivienne says it well, when talking about templars it is the same as talking about Nevarrans, Fereldens, Mages or what have you. Some are utterly intolerable and others are charming. 

 

I mean, there's no contest between Ser Barris and Ser Kerren or Ser Metten in who is actually the better templar. On the one hand you have a templar who'll face an angry mob in defense of a mage and stands up for the principles the Templar Order was founded on and on the other you have a sadist and a man who'll kill non-mages for suspected support of mages. 

 

So in the end, I think the lore pretty well establishes that there are opportunities for friendships, even romance, between mage and templar, even if it is against the rules, but that depends on who the Knight-Commander is and how much leeway the Seekers let them have. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

^Yo d where you been?