79 réponses à ce sujet

[CardButton]

Yes it does , once again at this point devs have planned how and in what direction things will go in future products, DG comment not so long ago made it clear that Da developer team didn't intend resurrect Architect in the future. Can they change their mind sure , but if they didn't want and didn't plan to bring him back from dead by this point low chances of that it will happen.

 

What could have been and what it is are 2 different matters , truth is that devs might have give up on idea because simply it wouldn't make sense as technological advancement in Thedas is poor , even qunari who are more advanced than rest of Thedas still fall far behind our technology level.

 

I don't want to explain it again but pretty much i explained that i pointed them in #21.

Your argument is that because DG says the Architect will not be returning if a player decided to kill him, that he is in fact dead.  My argument is just because a dev (even if he was the lead writer) planned for something to/to not happen, or in Bull's case was designed with a mechanical arm, if what they planned for never actually showed up in any of the final products ... then there is no reason to adhere to that plan, especially after that dev/writer has left the company and stopped working on the project.

 

I would also argue that "The Architect could appear in the future but he wouldn't if he was killed" just as easily could suggest that if the Warden decided to spare him, then he see's there is potential for him and his darkspawn to interact safely with the other sentient races in the future. However, if the Warden killed him, he resurrected much like Corypheus and upon doing so realized that it was too dangerous for his darkspawn to ever attempt relations with the above ground species again (because they may never trust them because of what they are) and therefore he exiles himself and his brood into the deeproads.  Nothing DG said implies his permanent death, just defines his potential future in interaction with players.  

[TheKomandorShepard]

Your argument is that because DG says the Architect will not be returning if a player decided to kill him, that he is in fact dead.  My argument is just because a dev (even if he was the lead writer) planned for something to/to not happen, or in Bull's case was designed with a mechanical arm, if what they planned for never actually showed up in any of the final products ... then there is no reason to adhere to that plan, especially after that dev/writer has left the company and stopped working on the project.

 

I would also argue that "The Architect could appear in the future but he wouldn't if he was killed" just as easily could suggest that if the Warden decided to spare him, then he see's there is potential for him and his darkspawn to interact safely with the other sentient races in the future. However, if the Warden killed him, he resurrected much like Corypheus and upon doing so realized that it was too dangerous for his darkspawn to ever attempt relations with the above ground species again (because they may never trust them because of what they are) and therefore he exiles himself and his brood into the deeproads.  Nothing DG said implies his permanent death, just defines his potential future in interaction with players.  

 

My argument is that DG pretty much said that they (da team) don't plan bring Architect back from death and even if DG left pretty much rest od Da crew remained , can plan change sure but low chances of that if they didn't wanted to do that by that moment.

 

That is just wishful thinking, pretty much sure by the way he phrased it he meant dead, although no said directly ,same can be said on that he was Teviner magister (and i even had same argument with someone trying to reinterpretate something obvious as something else as well) in that interview.

[Dai Grepher]

Except that other devs have also said that the Architect was supposed to appear in Inquisition during HLTA before it was changed, suggesting that his ultimate fate is still in play at least among the writers. While Gaider's word does have some clout, remember that Weekes can easily Joss this as the new head writer.

 

The Architect having the same ability as Corypheus and the Archdemons to soul surf into another tainted host would be one means to have him survive Awakening if you killed him. Since his death can take place in a giant darkspawn lair (and baby factory), as well as alongside several Wardens, it's not like there was a shortage of tainted individuals running around for him to hop into.

 

If Utha survived the fight as well, she would probably be the best bet for how to handwave his death, since as a ghoulified Warden, she has the strongest corruption of anyone in proximity at the time of the Architect's death.

 

If the Archect doesn't have the same ability as Corpyheus, one explanation could be that whatever transformed them struck one of them first and then radiated out to the others (an event which is depicted on one of the murals at Skyhold). As their leader, Corypheus being the first one affected and it passing through him and into the others, might be why he'd have some unique abilities.

 

But I personally don't see how the Architect wouldn't have that ability, since as one of the Seven, he was right there with Corypheus when they were all transformed and they are both the same type of unique darkspawn, so wouldn't they have the exact same abilities as each other?

 

What Gaider implied by that was the Architect could appear in Inquisition if spared in DA:A. If slain, then he probably would not appear. The plot may have been cut because it wasn't relevant to Adamant, or it could have been cut because implementing a plot where the Architect is dead and replaced by someone else was too difficult for BioWare to pull off.

 

The Architect having that ability would be lame. I don't think BioWare would do this plot again.

 

Utha dies with the Architect. But I think the Architect would rather use up one of his nameless darkspawn followers, or one of the Mother's.

 

Even if it were to pass through Cory to another Magister Sidereal, the Architect would have died before Cory was killed anyway. So that power would pass to a different magister.

 

Just because the Conductor had the ability doesn't mean the Architect did as well. I think each magister had their own unique ability. There's no evidence that Cory received that ability from the taint. This may have just been a talent he developed on his own after a period of years. Maybe he learned it from Dumat after he was corrupted. Dumat resurrected multiple times before finally being slain. So maybe Cory used those examples to work from and began his own research into the resurrection power linked to the taint. Avernus has said the taint holds many untapped powers. It's just a matter of researching it through study and experimentation. I'm sure Corypheus had plenty of test subjects.

[Dai Grepher]

But she dies if he dies. A better bet would be Serrani, who is heavily tainted and who's fate is unaccounted for in all playthroughs except that she was in the area.

 

Seranni still exists, but I don't think the Architect would want to destroy her by possessing her. I would prefer that in a worldstate where the Architect is slain, Seranni carries on his work willingly along side his disciples.

[Heimdall]

Seranni still exists, but I don't think the Architect would want to destroy her by possessing her. I would prefer that in a worldstate where the Architect is slain, Seranni carries on his work willingly along side his disciples.

Unless she welcomes him into her body willingly so he can continue his work.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Unless she welcomes him into her body willingly so he can continue his work.

Well, you probably inspired some new fanfics with that.

[Dai Grepher]

Unless she welcomes him into her body willingly so he can continue his work.

 

I doubt Larius or Janeka willingly welcomed Corypheus into their bodies when he possessed either of them and kept their forms. I don't think the Architect would even bother taking control of Seranni's body, willing or not, when he could just as easily possess some grunt.

[Heimdall]

I doubt Larius or Janeka willingly welcomed Corypheus into their bodies when he possessed either of them and kept their forms. I don't think the Architect would even bother taking control of Seranni's body, willing or not, when he could just as easily possess some grunt.

Her willingness isn't required, but it seems like something she would be willing to do and an option he might take if offered.

[Dai Grepher]

Why? At the very least her consciousness would be forced out or overtaken. Better to take a worthless darkspawn and then transform back into yourself.

[Heimdall]

Why? At the very least her consciousness would be forced out or overtaken. Better to take a worthless darkspawn and then transform back into yourself.

I don't know, the way the process works is really hazy. It might be that a mind open to his influence would draw him in.

Frankly, I personally just like the idea because it gives a purpose to the one character whose fate is entirely left open and I want to see the Architect again.

[AedanStarfang]

What Gaider implied by that was the Architect could appear in Inquisition if spared in DA:A. If slain, then he probably would not appear. The plot may have been cut because it wasn't relevant to Adamant, or it could have been cut because implementing a plot where the Architect is dead and replaced by someone else was too difficult for BioWare to pull off.

 

The Architect having that ability would be lame. I don't think BioWare would do this plot again.

 

Utha dies with the Architect. But I think the Architect would rather use up one of his nameless darkspawn followers, or one of the Mother's.

 

Even if it were to pass through Cory to another Magister Sidereal, the Architect would have died before Cory was killed anyway. So that power would pass to a different magister.

 

Just because the Conductor had the ability doesn't mean the Architect did as well. I think each magister had their own unique ability. There's no evidence that Cory received that ability from the taint. This may have just been a talent he developed on his own after a period of years. Maybe he learned it from Dumat after he was corrupted. Dumat resurrected multiple times before finally being slain. So maybe Cory used those examples to work from and began his own research into the resurrection power linked to the taint. Avernus has said the taint holds many untapped powers. It's just a matter of researching it through study and experimentation. I'm sure Corypheus had plenty of test subjects.

Archdemons in general can and will resurrect endlessly via the taint unless slain by a Grey Warden, which is the reason why Dumat took so long to kill, which is why all archdemons can regenerate and why I think it is not an ability limited to Corypheus but rather an instrument of the taint/archdemon relationship/

[Sifr]

But she dies if he dies. A better bet would be Serrani, who is heavily tainted and who's fate is unaccounted for in all playthroughs except that she was in the area.

 

That is one of the drawbacks of Utha, in that she would have to had somehow survived for him to possess her.

 

Seranni would be a far more interesting choice, I agree. I was going to suggest her as well, but couldn't remember how close she was when you have the chance to kill him? It would gel nicely though with the (semi-canon) epilogue slides where one claims that Velanna went missing in the Deep Roads, after having thought she saw her sister and went chasing after her.

 

Yes it does , once again at this point devs have planned how and in what direction things will go in future products, DG comment not so long ago made it clear that Da developer team didn't intend resurrect Architect in the future. Can they change their mind sure , but if they didn't want and didn't plan to bring him back from dead by this point low chances of that it will happen.

 

We've already seen after DA2 didn't do as well as expected, that Bioware decided to can the Exalted Marches expansion. They were forced to integrate some of the plot elements they'd planned into DAI, but with Hawke's role in the events vastly reduced, since they were no longer the main protagonist.

 

Qunari were originally designed as hulking scaly creatures, but they had their designs modified several times. We know that due to issues with helmets for Sten, they lacked horns in Origins and had to come up with the handwave/retcon in DA2 for why they had them again.

 

Same with characters, Varric was meant to be a sleazy, untrustworthy conman, while Alistair was meant to be a veteran Warden in his forties, and Velanna was at one point a serious candidate for the new host of Justice in DA2.

 

Plotlines and elements of stories can be changed despite what the writers planned ahead of time, either because they thought of something better or because they found that something they'd intended previously no longer worked. Saying that Gaider's decree on the Architect is immutable because he said it, does not negate that Weekes or other writers might decide that they can revive and take the character in a better direction later on.

[TheKomandorShepard]

We've already seen after DA2 didn't do as well as expected, that Bioware decided to can the Exalted Marches expansion. They were forced to integrate some of the plot elements they'd planned into DAI, but with Hawke's role in the events vastly reduced, since they were no longer the main protagonist.

 

Qunari were originally designed as hulking scaly creatures, but they had their designs modified several times. We know that due to issues with helmets for Sten, they lacked horns in Origins and had to come up with the handwave/retcon in DA2 for why they had them again.

 

Same with characters, Varric was meant to be a sleazy, untrustworthy conman, while Alistair was meant to be a veteran Warden in his forties, and Velanna was at one point a serious candidate for the new host of Justice in DA2.

 

Plotlines and elements of stories can be changed despite what the writers planned ahead of time, either because they thought of something better or because they found that something they'd intended previously no longer worked. Saying that Gaider's decree on the Architect is immutable because he said it, does not negate that Weekes or other writers might decide that they can revive and take the character in a better direction later on.

 

Da 2 is exceptional case due to being spectacular failure , so devs were forced to reinvent their plans to not sink like titanic.That said still a good deal of plans remained either slightly altered or just reduced , for example Hawke still had role just as they wanted but it was reduced.

 

Most things you described were just about early design of characters rather that devs didn't go with because it didn't fit or either couldn't go with it because engine didn't allow it than long-term plans .  

 

As i said may they change their mind sure, but as i said if they have decided otherwise after architect being long dead slim chances of doing that.

[Dai Grepher]

I don't know, the way the process works is really hazy. It might be that a mind open to his influence would draw him in.

Frankly, I personally just like the idea because it gives a purpose to the one character whose fate is entirely left open and I want to see the Architect again.

 

Yeah, and be replaced. Unless he operates like Justice does with Anders.

 

Okay, I understand. But having Seranni be possessed necessarily eliminates either her character or the Architect's. If the Architect simply resurrects in the body of a darkspawn grunt, then he returns and Seranni stays as she is. This is the better option.

 

Archdemons in general can and will resurrect endlessly via the taint unless slain by a Grey Warden, which is the reason why Dumat took so long to kill, which is why all archdemons can regenerate and why I think it is not an ability limited to Corypheus but rather an instrument of the taint/archdemon relationship/

 

But archdemons are old gods. They understood magic better than anyone. That's why I say, Corypheus probably had to learn to master the ability. The other Magisters may not have done this.

[Big I]

Seranni still exists, but I don't think the Architect would want to destroy her by possessing her. I would prefer that in a worldstate where the Architect is slain, Seranni carries on his work willingly along side his disciples.

 

I assume the Architect was grooming Seranni to be an intelligent broodmother like the Mother, but minus the madness. She's clearly corrupted, invested in the Architect's plan, and refers to darkspawn as children. This would even fit with Velanna's DA:A epilogue, which says that she went missing in the Deep Roads after seeing someone she thought looked like Seranni (family resemblance perhaps?).

 

What makes this theory interesting for me is that it looks like emissaries have been retconned in DA2 and DAI to only be shrieks (no more hurlock or genlock emissaries). Since I assume awakened broodmothers have some control over the type of darkspawn they birth (that would explain the Mother creatng the Children), it's possible Seranni could give birth to an entire army of awakened emissaries. Wouldn't that be fun.

[Andromelek]

Yes it does , once again at this point devs have planned how and in what direction things will go in future products, DG comment not so long ago made it clear that Da developer team didn't intend resurrect Architect in the future. Can they change their mind sure , but if they didn't want and didn't plan to bring him back from dead by this point low chances of that it will happen.
 
What could have been and what it is are 2 different matters , truth is that devs might have give up on idea because simply it wouldn't make sense as technological advancement in Thedas is poor , even qunari who are more advanced than rest of Thedas still fall far behind our technology level.
 
I don't want to explain it again but pretty much i explained that i pointed them in #21.

If Gaider said it, you can disregard him, he pretty much said that any side note or dev comment regarding the future of a character isn't actually canon until it goes reflected in an official product and Corypheus was the only character that was emphatically declared dead on WoT2. And regarding the post #21, the fake calling was Nightmare's ability, not Corypheus', it's even said that the taint itself is what keeps him alive regardless the circumstances, haven't he invested so much power in the Dragon he wouldn't be vulnerable.

[Aren]

The Architect may have been able to survive but that's not the point which is more about of if he will return or not.

[TheKomandorShepard]

If Gaider said it, you can disregard him, he pretty much said that any side note or dev comment regarding the future of a character isn't actually canon until it goes reflected in an official product and Corypheus was the only character that was emphatically declared dead on WoT2. And regarding the post #21, the fake calling was Nightmare's ability, not Corypheus', it's even said that the taint itself is what keeps him alive regardless the circumstances, haven't he invested so much power in the Dragon he wouldn't be vulnerable.

First of all as i said DG was lead writer so yes things he said (word of god) before he left dragon age team are canon unless devs will retcon them. Once again you make up things , imitating calling and ability to control grey wardens is Corypheus ability as shown and said in Legacy ,second thing i don't know why you are telling me about Corypheus having ability to body hop (i know about that, duh) and how him having that ability proves that Architect has same ability. 

[Aren]

Her willingness isn't required, but it seems like something she would be willing to do and an option he might take if offered.

It is mentioned into a codex that she was prepared for something and for some purpose, i think it was the tool to awaken other darkspawn or to make another mother, this time one which was not crazy

[Aren]

First of all as i said DG was lead writer so yes things he said (word of god) before he left dragon age team are canon unless devs will retcon them. Once again you make up things , imitating calling and ability to control grey wardens is Corypheus ability as shown and said in Legacy ,second thing i don't know why you are telling me about Corypheus having ability to body hop (i know about that, duh) and how him having that ability proves that Architect has same ability.

It was not only Corypheus, the Nightmare extended the calling to all Orlais with his powers not Corypheus.

[Andromelek]

First of all as i said DG was lead writer so yes things he said (word of god) before he left dragon age team are canon unless devs will retcon them. Once again you make up things , imitating calling and ability to control grey wardens is Corypheus ability as shown and said in Legacy ,second thing i don't know why you are telling me about Corypheus having ability to body hop (i know about that, duh) and how him having that ability proves that Architect has same ability.

Well, he told us to disregard the note on the epilogue of the main game in which he was lead writer, second, is not a claim I did, is the truth, he did made a fake calling on Legacy but that was an involuntary reflex that he did during his slumber, once he wakes up, Janeka recovers her mind, then on Inquisition, once the Nightmare was gone the Wardens stopped to act like jerks, excluding those who were already brainwashed by Erimond. And the Architect does have a similar ability to Corypheus' since he has control to a certain degree of the feral darkspawn near to him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It was not only Corypheus, the Nightmare extended the calling to all Orlais with his powers not Corypheus.

Damn , people should learn how to read, what did i said Corypheus was able to emit calling already in Legacy (and long before legacy) , Nightmare demon only amplified Corypheus ability.

 

 

Well, he told us to disregard the note on the epilogue of the main game in which he was lead writer, second, is not a claim I did, is the truth, he did made a fake calling on Legacy but that was an involuntary reflex that he did during his slumber, once he wakes up, Janeka recovers her mind, then on Inquisition, once the Nightmare was gone the Wardens stopped to act like jerks, excluding those who were already brainwashed by Erimond. And the Architect does have a similar ability to Corypheus' since he has control to a certain degree of the feral darkspawn near to him.

 

First he didn't say disregard just to not threat it as ultimate truth , note in game files could saying truth or not according , second note wasn't intended for players and simply could have been like age of characters in toolset for dragon age origins to give another devs more or less indication with what they were working with. Wow you made up things to support thing you made up , Solas in party banter confirms that it was Corypheus ability and Nightmare demon only amplified his power.Also no it is nowhere mentioned that Architect can control darkspawn , normal darkspawn seems to just listen to disciples what makes sense as shown in darkspawn chronicles and in codex entries their hierarchy works on might makes right.    

[Andromelek]

Damn , people should learn how to read, what did i said Corypheus was able to emit calling already in Legacy (and long before legacy) , Nightmare demon only amplified Corypheus ability.




First he didn't say disregard just to not threat it as ultimate truth , note in game files could saying truth or not according , second note wasn't intended for players and simply could have been like age of characters in toolset for dragon age origins to give another devs more or less indication with what they were working with. Wow you made up things to support thing you made up , Solas in party banter confirms that it was Corypheus ability and Nightmare demon only amplified his power.Also no it is nowhere mentioned that Architect can control darkspawn , normal darkspawn seems to just listen to disciples what makes sense as shown in darkspawn chronicles and in codex entries their hierarchy works on might makes right.

On the Calling he does, but I assume you can't even read the Wiki, and just for once use the freaking logic, the seven were hit by the same magical crap (whatever it was) by your logic, if two people get irradiated with a nuke one of them is gonna utterly die and the other may have super powers.

[TheKomandorShepard]

On the Calling he does, but I assume you can't even read the Wiki, and just for once use the freaking logic, the seven were hit by the same magical crap (whatever it was) by your logic, if two people get irradiated with a nuke one of them is gonna utterly die and the other may have super powers.

This is what it says on wiki:

"Because the Architect is independent of the Old Gods' call, its darkspawn brethren see it with fear, and therefore obey its commands - to some extent. Its control over other darkspawn is tenuous, as it is able to keep the other darkspawn from pursuing Genevieve and her group. However, if their blood lust comes to a point, it is unable to control them."

 

So pretty much i was right they didn't follow him and disciples because of ability to control them like Corypheus , they follow disciples and him because they fear them.

 

I use logic just because Corypheus is sentient darkspawn and former magisters like Architect doesn't mean he is the same as Architect what as i said pretty much isn't because he lacks his powers. Also yes different organism may react differently and results may be different , examples joining some people die some become grey wardens.  

[Andromelek]

This is what it says on wiki:
"Because the Architect is independent of the Old Gods' call, its darkspawn brethren see it with fear, and therefore obey its commands - to some extent. Its control over other darkspawn is tenuous, as it is able to keep the other darkspawn from pursuing Genevieve and her group. However, if their blood lust comes to a point, it is unable to control them."

So pretty much i was right they didn't follow him and disciples because of ability to control them like Corypheus , they follow disciples and him because they fear them.

I use logic just because Corypheus is sentient darkspawn and former magisters like Architect doesn't mean he is the same as Architect what as i said pretty much isn't because he lacks his powers. Also yes different organism may react differently and results may be different , examples joining some people die some become grey wardens.

Corypheus can restrain the corruption from Red Templars as the Architect can from Seranni and Utah, your point with Grey Wardens is invalid because they fall to the taint regardless what, so they might be more resilient but their ultimate fate it's the same and it's unavoidable, no Warden has naturally survived the taint (and with naturally I mean that magical solutions like Fiona or Avernus do not count) so yeah, Corypheus might be stronger (and have to keep in mind that he uses Red Lyrium) but he wouldn't have exclusive abilities since he is the same species as the others.