44 réponses à ce sujet

[Sifr]

The only conflict is who created the Veil. Andraste said it was the Maker. Solas claims he created it himself. My money is on Solas not remembering things properly, and being mistaken as usual. I believe the Maker created the Veil, but left parts open so that spirits and the living could learn from each other. The evanuris built cities in these Veil gaps. Then after millennia the wars between the evanuris reached a breaking point, they killed Mythal, and so in his anger and grief Solas sought a way to block the Fade entirely, and discovered the magical vibration that is the Veil. He developed a magic that could manipulate it, and with it brought the Veil together in the gaps, thus cutting the elvhen cities off from the Fade.

 

Solas is heavily implied to be the actual creator of the Veil.

 

Ignoring that he tells us this directly, but the memories of the other Ancient Elves in the Vir Dirthara attributed it to him as well. We are also told that Skyhold was once his fortress and implied to be the location where he created it, both from Morrigan's comments that the Veil is "Old here", it's Elven name translating to "The place where the Sky is held back" and that Gatsi mentions that the construction of the place implies it was built for a heavy duty purpose.

 

Andraste claiming that it was the Maker, millennia after the Veil was created, doesn't have nearly the same amount of evidence of His involvement (let alone existence) backing it up that we have with Solas being the creator of the Veil.

 

Not to say that Solas couldn't have stumbled upon the Veil as you suggest, but given his in-depth knowledge of how the Fade and the Veil works, as well as his being around at the time the Veil first appeared, it definitely seems to be confirmed that Solas did it and created it. While Corypheus did arrogantly claim the exact same things about having "created" the Anchor, he never showed any true understanding over or control over it, unlike that we see from Solas both before and after his power-up from Flemeth.

[Dai Grepher]

Solas is heavily implied to be the actual creator of the Veil.

 

Ignoring that he tells us this directly, but the memories of the other Ancient Elves in the Vir Dirthara attributed it to him as well. We are also told that Skyhold was once his fortress and implied to be the location where he created it, both from Morrigan's comments that the Veil is "Old here", it's Elven name translating to "The place where the Sky is held back" and that Gatsi mentions that the construction of the place implies it was built for a heavy duty purpose.

 

Andraste claiming that it was the Maker, millennia after the Veil was created, doesn't have nearly the same amount of evidence of His involvement (let alone existence) backing it up that we have with Solas being the creator of the Veil.

 

Not to say that Solas couldn't have stumbled upon the Veil as you suggest, but given his in-depth knowledge of how the Fade and the Veil works, as well as his being around at the time the Veil first appeared, it definitely seems to be confirmed that Solas did it and created it. While Corypheus did arrogantly claim the exact same things about having "created" the Anchor, he never showed any true understanding over or control over it, unlike that we see from Solas both before and after his power-up from Flemeth.

 

Implied, yes. But nothing is proven.

 

We should not take his claim as evidence. Also, the memories in the Vir Dirthara were fragmented. The first Spirit of Learning we meet states that another, not of the Qunari, arrived there and twisted the Librarians. It is possible that Solas also fed his mistaken account of the Veil to the Spirits of Learning while he was there. Other than that, the spirits reflect what the elvhen observed. If Solas was the first of their kind to discover the Veil's existence, and he moved it across the elvhen crossroads, then all those there would mistakenly believe that Solas created it. From their perspective that's exactly what it would look like. But other accounts state that the Fade existed in one dimension, the Real on another, and that the crossroads dimension existed between them. So there must have been natural boundaries between the Fade and the Real before Solas made his move against the evanuris.

 

Morrigan's comment about the Veil feeling old, and the research about where the sky was held back, could just be a reference to where the Fade ended and only the Real existed thereafter. The location of Skyhold was probably one such place where the Veil existed. Solas studied it, figured out how to manipulate it (Rift Mage). And then when he made his move he affected the Veil in a way so it would close together completely.

 

Gatsi was referring to the current structure, obviously. And the game states that it was built over numerous times, the last of which was by Fereldans. The Skyhold we see in Inquisition is a Ferelden castle.

 

Andraste's claim is more valid than Solas', since her actions are historically documented to have been accompanied by radical changes in the climate, likely due to the Maker's influence. Solas has lied about things before, and even if he is not intentionally lying presently, that still doesn't mean he isn't mistaken, as he is also known to do. Also, the explanation that it was the Maker is self-evident. The Fade runs through all of existence. How could Solas, even at his most powerful, create a magical vibration that repels a dimension of magical energy that runs through all existence, while never diminishing naturally itself? Only the Maker is capable of something of that magnitude. We have no solid evidence that Solas created the Veil. He wielded magic that manipulated the Veil, but others have shown this ability as well. Avernus, the spirit possessing Sophia, Justice.

 

Nothing indicates that Solas was around during the Veil's creation, which is never specified in precise terms. Only that there was a time before the Veil existed. Since Solas lived in a world where the Fade and the Real were separate, I would say the Veil predates him. The Chant claims that there was a time when there was only the Fade, until the Maker used much of the Fade's energy to create the Real, and then separated them with the Veil.

 

Corypheus showed some control over the anchor in Haven when he caused the mark to inflict pain on the Herald. He also stated that the anchor was permanent, which he was correct about. Not even Solas could take it from the Inquisitor to use himself. All he could do was destroy it along with the Inquisitor's lower arm. And besides, this magic is only said to be a key. Opening, closing, locking. Not creating.

[Aren]

Solas is heavily implied to be the actual creator of the Veil.

 

 

I don't think he created the veil,if he created it it's like saying that the veil is an artificial construct that need to be sustained like every spell and not part of the world, in this case who is sustained it?

Solas does not possess the power to sustain a thing that is present all over the skies of the world and that is constantly in "clash" with spirits and mortals.

I believe that it was always existed an Fen'harel merely reallocated it with his magic to seal the Evanuris.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

It is interesting that Solas refers to Flemeth as Mythal. I mean he doesn't even mention Flemeth at all. It left me with the impression that to him Flemeth + Mythal = Mythal. I guess it's not surprising, just interesting.

[Gervaise]

I have to admit, saying that Solas merely moved the location of the Veil makes a deal more sense to me that he created the entire thing, Maker or no Maker.    I had been puzzling where he could have got the knowledge to create the Veil from scratch and the power to do so.    The Crossroads is described as a in between place both by Morrigan and in the Masked Empire.  It seems likely that the realms of the Evanuris were like a bridge between the real world and the Fade.   As Morrigan says, the Crossroads is very near to the Fade, although not actually part of it.   So originally the Veil was what separated the Crossroads and the realms attached to it from the Fade.  

 

The only thing is, why was the Crossroads unaffected by the alteration to the Veil, as it still seems to operate perfectly okay, as do the eluvians?   Also Solas mentions at the beginning of DAI when talking about the ancient elves and magic of how there was no barrier to the passage into the Fade, as though there was no Veil.    Plus, why did it have such a devastating affect on the elves?    The ones trapped in the Crossroads seemed pretty aware of what happened, so not acting like dazed tranquil, but were unable to leave and so starved to death.   The ones caught the other side of the Veil in the material world, lost their immortality, their ability to do magic (except the more powerful ones) and even a lot of their knowledge about magic.    It does seem to suggest that their abilities were tied to the Fade and there could have been no Veil in place previously. 

 

Another thought, why was it necessary to take such drastic action as cutting off the entire world from the Fade?   If he tricked the Evanuris into going somewhere and then trapped them, surely he only needed to alter reality in that location, not everywhere?

[Elyunha]

Isn't Solas just a vessel for Fen'Harel though, like Flemeth is Mythal's? Thus he'd carry Fen'Harel's memories like Flemeth does Mythal's. How I understood it, was that Solas was "just an elf" first, and that the Dread Wolf came later, like Mythal came to Flemeth. Correct me if I understood wrong, I'm genuinely interested to know.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Isn't Solas just a vessel for Fen'Harel though, like Flemeth is Mythal's? Thus he'd carry Fen'Harel's memories like Flemeth does Mythal's. How I understood it, was that Solas was "just an elf" first, and that the Dread Wolf came later, like Mythal came to Flemeth. Correct me if I understood wrong, I'm genuinely interested to know.

You can actually ask him that very question and he says that he is not like Flemeth and that he has always been as he is.

[KaiserShep]

It is interesting that Solas refers to Flemeth as Mythal. I mean he doesn't even mention Flemeth at all. It left me with the impression that to him Flemeth + Mythal = Mythal. I guess it's not surprising, just interesting.

I suppose he only cares about the water, not the sack that contains it.

[Elyunha]

You can actually ask him that very question and he says that he is not like Flemeth and that he has always been as he is.

Okay, I haven't played any DLCs since JoH myself, hence my question. I haven't been able(can't afford) to upgrade neither my console nor my PC to match the games current requirements.. :C But thank you for the clarification!

[Prince Lex]

In Trespasser, Solas explains that he was always Solas but that the people dubbed him "Fen'Harel" when he opposed the "gods" (who weren't actually gods, just powerful mages who were once leaders) and tried to free people from slavery. He created the veil to banish said gods because they killed Mythal, who was the only one that cared for her people.

 

Creating the veil cost the elves their immortality, and in his own words he wakes up a year before the beginning of Inquisition and finds that with the veil it's the equivalent of all the elves being tranquil (because the fade and the waking world are not meant to be separate, but he made it so to banish the old gods). Their immense power and immortality makes sense when you consider that the fade never used to be separate. 

 

Something I found neat is that he tells you Skyhold used to be his, and one of the Codex's says "place where the sky was held back" or something to that effect. A neat theory is that this is where he created the veil.

 

I have no problem with the idea that he created the veil in a world where mages were exponentially more powerful because they would be, given that the fade is where said power comes from. 

 

What I'm wondering is why all humans have to die for him to revert the world back to its original state. Given that humans can commune with/ enter the fade in the same way that elves can, I don't see what difference there is between them or why they'd have to die. But I suppose the next game will deal with that question.

[9TailsFox]

In Trespasser, Solas explains that he was always Solas but that the people dubbed him "Fen'Harel" when he opposed the "gods" (who weren't actually gods, just powerful mages who were once leaders) and tried to free people from slavery. He created the veil to banish said gods because they killed Mythal, who was the only one that cared for her people.

 

Creating the veil cost the elves their immortality, and in his own words he wakes up a year before the beginning of Inquisition and finds that with the veil it's the equivalent of all the elves being tranquil (because the fade and the waking world are not meant to be separate, but he made it so to banish the old gods). Their immense power and immortality makes sense when you consider that the fade never used to be separate. 

 

Something I found neat is that he tells you Skyhold used to be his, and one of the Codex's says "place where the sky was held back" or something to that effect. A neat theory is that this is where he created the veil.

 

I have no problem with the idea that he created the veil in a world where mages were exponentially more powerful because they would be, given that the fade is where said power comes from. 

 

What I'm wondering is why all humans have to die for him to revert the world back to its original state. Given that humans can commune with/ enter the fade in the same way that elves can, I don't see what difference there is between them or why they'd have to die. But I suppose the next game will deal with that question.

As i understand no one have to die but if Solas remove veil everywhere will be chaos, spirits everywhere. he kill world as we know not kill everyone.

[Chaelura]

Mythal was in the Well of Sorrows. She rises out of it as Corypheus approaches the eluvian, then she escapes through the eluvian.

 

Huh... do you think that was really her spirit?  If that's true then Flemeth isn't Mythal at all, or maybe just has a piece of her?  I never considered it.

 

As for dead; before Solas showed up, Flemeth was shoving some glowy blue stuff through the Eluvian - reminiscent of when the Dalish revived her in DA2 as a backup plan if Morrigan tried to wax her.

[Chaelura]

No they don't. The Elves don't believe any of the Evanuris created the world, but merely preside over it. The Elven religion believes in a being even higher than the Creators, symbolized by the Sun(which coincidentally is what symbolizes the Maker for the human religions), whom created the world and them.

 

Yah, I believe it's Elgar'nan, yes?  Mythal settled a dispute to prevent him from burning everything to ashes, which is why he "goes to sleep" every night.  I think.  Heh.

 

As for whether Solas created the Veil... that guy lied sooooo much over the course of the game.  I have absolutely no idea what to believe from him; perhaps this is one thing the Dalish got right, in calling him the Trickster.  Though he certainly had an awful lot of knowledge about it.  *shakes fist at Solas*

[Secret Rare]

 

 

What I'm wondering is why all humans have to die for him to revert the world back to its original state. 

Solas:"A good question, but not one i will answer"

 

My guess is that only the ancient elves anatomy is fitting for a world merged with the fade.

After all from what i remember is said that if non-elves spend to much time in the crossroads they eventually die.

[sim-ran]

I'm still hoping Flemeth had a characteristic ace in the hole and will return because she's FRIKKIN AWESOME.

I can't see me ever loving Mythal in any form that doesn't have that VA.

In fact now I think of it, she was the one that sold DA to me. I played the DA2 demo, thought she was awesome and immediately went and got DAO. I mean okay I ended up hating DA2 with a passion, but even in that her bits were awesome.

Although she may have lost something going forward from the Mythal reveal. The mystique regarding her nature and goals was what made her so fascinating. I guess her goals are at least fairly mysterious...

[Sifr]

 

Solas:"A good question, but not one i will answer"

 

My guess is that only the ancient elves anatomy is fitting for a world merged with the fade.

After all from what i remember is said that if non-elves spend to much time in the crossroads they eventually die.

 

 

Which makes you wonder, how did any of the non-elven races survive before the Veil?

 

I mean, if the arrival of humans is often mistaken as the reason for why they became immortal, that would suggest they showed up after the Veil went up. Could that mean that humans might not be from Thedas originally, but instead were stranded there when the Veil lead to whatever world/dimension/iteration of the Fade they came from, to collapse into and/or merge with the plane of existence that Thedas lies within?

 

Might explain why humans might not survive the Veil coming down if they don't actually belong in Thedas to begin with.

 

 

I'm still hoping Flemeth had a characteristic ace in the hole and will return because she's FRIKKIN AWESOME.

I can't see me ever loving Mythal in any form that doesn't have that VA.

In fact now I think of it, she was the one that sold DA to me. I played the DA2 demo, thought she was awesome and immediately went and got DAO. I mean okay I ended up hating DA2 with a passion, but even in that her bits were awesome.

Although she may have lost something going forward from the Mythal reveal. The mystique regarding her nature and goals was what made her so fascinating. I guess her goals are at least fairly mysterious...

 

Kate Mulgrew is a wonderful actress and has done an amazing job at portraying the character, it would be a shame if this ended up being her last appearance in the series because she's a large part of why I have such an odd fondness for Flemeth.

 

And surely I am not the only one who'd want to hang out with Flemeth for a while, despite how terrifying and dangerous she's supposed to be in-universe? She's hilarious and can turn into an actual dragon!

 

[Secret Rare]

Which makes you wonder, how did any of the non-elven races survive before the Veil?

 

I mean, if the arrival of humans is often mistaken as the reason for why they became immortal, that would suggest they showed up after the Veil went up. Could that mean that humans might not be from Thedas originally, but instead were stranded there when the Veil lead to whatever world/dimension/iteration of the Fade they came from, to collapse into and/or merge with the plane of existence that Thedas lies within?

 

Might explain why humans might not survive the Veil coming down if they don't actually belong in Thedas to begin with.

 

 

Solas never imply that the natural condition of the world is veil-less

My guess is that the veil always existed and that it was originally removed by the elves in their domain (Thedas only) to grant them immense magical benefits.

I assume that elves are nothing more but the ultimate evolution of spirits of the fade,who grew to have a complex personality (kinda like Cole) and wanted to rule over the physical world (pretty much what the chant of light describe through metaphors).

Ancient elves were renowned to be able to shift their form from physical to metaphysical afterall a clear sign that they are very similar to spirits.

What Solas did was restore things back to the standard condition of Thedas and in doing that he damaged all the elves,without their powers they started to amass slaves from outside Thedas(where the veil was never removed) to work for them

[Dancing_Dolphin]

If the Well of Sorrows is the collective will of priests of Mythal, and spirits are the manifestation of a collective ideal, or, in the case of demons, the corruption of it, and the Evenuris were some sort of combination of the two and possibly more, then how do you destroy something like that? I mean aside from wiping the memory of an entire people which would be no small task. Hey, maybe the Veil is just a giant coordinated mindbast.

[Marika Haliwell]

Which makes you wonder, how did any of the non-elven races survive before the Veil?

 

I mean, if the arrival of humans is often mistaken as the reason for why they became immortal, that would suggest they showed up after the Veil went up. Could that mean that humans might not be from Thedas originally, but instead were stranded there when the Veil lead to whatever world/dimension/iteration of the Fade they came from, to collapse into and/or merge with the plane of existence that Thedas lies within?

 

Might explain why humans might not survive the Veil coming down if they don't actually belong in Thedas to begin with.

 

 

 

Kate Mulgrew is a wonderful actress and has done an amazing job at portraying the character, it would be a shame if this ended up being her last appearance in the series because she's a large part of why I have such an odd fondness for Flemeth.

 

And surely I am not the only one who'd want to hang out with Flemeth for a while, despite how terrifying and dangerous she's supposed to be in-universe? She's hilarious and can turn into an actual dragon!

 

Acutally is Kate's voice who sold me to DA universe Loving her for Captain Janeway when i saw the Felemth's trailer of DAI I was stunned . I love Flemeth lol Maker knows why She's confusing, she might sound good, she can be vengeful and she can trick you but she has something that attracts me as character .

[Cyrus Amell]

Flemeth dead? I hardly think it likely. Severely weakened and separated from Mythal perhaps, but she probably has one more performance left in her for the series. Both she and her daughter Yavana are likely somehow alive and will likely be used to introduce/nominate the next Dragon Age hero in some cliched manner.

 

My money is on a jailbreak from an experimental Tevinter laboratory in a swamp, followed by a few errands that rapidly snowball into a full blown adventure. We are talking about Bioware here so I don't expect a great deal of creativity out the gate until the middle of the game.