75 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Trvp710]

Does anyone else kill Shiala on Feros? I find it is just too risky from a roleplaying perspective to let her go. She was way too close to Saren, and we see how dangerous that was in Benezia's case.

[themikefest]

I have killed her a couple of times only to see the results, otherwise she lives. Too bad she couldn't be a squadmate

[ArcadiaGrey]

Yep, I've done it once.  Makes very little difference to anything really, but I agree it's odd for Shep to just assume she'll change her ways.  She willing went with Benezia and Saren after all.

[fraggle]

I killed her once with my Shepard who was mistrusting of aliens and saw her as a danger due to her connection with Saren.

 

But I also feel like there's good reasons for both choices, and I make this choice depending on which character I play

[Mberry]

I didn't kill her.  If you let her live it adds 5 points to saving the colony and apparently saving the colony will help in ME 3.

[voteDC]

I tend to let her live but make sure she remains on Feros.

Makes no sense for people to want her as a squad-mate when she later admits to hearing the Reapers. Only her close bond to the colonists ensures she remains free of the Reapers control.

[MrFob]

I let her live.

 

I killed her once with my all-out renegade a-hole Shep but I found it very disturbing. When she is freed from the Thorian, she freely admits all her mistakes and Benzia's. She is fully cooperative, she gives you valuable intel and the cypher. Unless she plays an extreme ruse, these actions make it clear she is no longer on their side (and even if you believed that she was deceiving you, she would be much more valuable as a prisoner rather than dead). Besides, killing her because of the dangers of indoctrination is the epitome of hypocrisy, 5 minutes after you let her put stuff into your head! By all rights, you should put a bullet in your own head next.

 

Also, the entire scene just has such an evil vibe to it. Basically she understands, kneels and lets herself be executed by you. How bone-chilling is that? If this were ME2, it would have been great to have a paragon interrupt there to not pull the trigger after all.

[Trvp710]

I let her live.

 

I killed her once with my all-out renegade a-hole Shep but I found it very disturbing. When she is freed from the Thorian, she freely admits all her mistakes and Benzia's. She is fully cooperative, she gives you valuable intel and the cypher. Unless she plays an extreme ruse, these actions make it clear she is no longer on their side (and even if you believed that she was deceiving you, she would be much more valuable as a prisoner rather than dead). Besides, killing her because of the dangers of indoctrination is the epitome of hypocrisy, 5 minutes after you let her put stuff into your head! By all rights, you should put a bullet in your own head next.

 

Also, the entire scene just has such an evil vibe to it. Basically she understands, kneels and lets herself be executed by you. How bone-chilling is that? If this were ME2, it would have been great to have a paragon interrupt there to not pull the trigger after all.

I don't see how it can't be a ruse. Rana Thanoptis, Saren's secretary on Virmire, killed a bunch of people in ME 3 because of the time she spent with Saren. She tricked you twice into letting her escape. Why wouldn't Shiala do the same?

 

I believe you can only become indoctrinated through Reaper technology, so her joining her mind to yours won't indoctrinate you. At that point in the story, Shepard knew that it was Sovereign who could indoctrinate people and not Saren, depending if you went to Noveria before you went to Feros.

 

And I see how it can feel cold, but perhaps from Shepard's eyes he simply could not have risked letting her escape to cause harm to anyone.

[MrFob]

I don't see how it can't be a ruse. Rana Thanoptis, Saren's secretary on Virmire, killed a bunch of people in ME 3 because of the time she spent with Saren. She tricked you twice into letting her escape. Why wouldn't Shiala do the same?

 

I believe you can only become indoctrinated through Reaper technology, so her joining her mind to yours won't indoctrinate you. At that point in the story, Shepard knew that it was Sovereign who could indoctrinate people and not Saren, depending if you went to Noveria before you went to Feros.

 

And I see how it can feel cold, but perhaps from Shepard's eyes he simply could not have risked letting her escape to cause harm to anyone.

 

It doesn't make sense that this is a ruse because she never alters your plans with the information she gives you. She explains about indoctrination and what Saren and Sovereign are (which is valuable info, especially if you go to Feros first) but it doesn't change what Shepard was going to do in the first place (i.e. go to the other planets). The ruse might be that she is trying to make you let her live so she can do something later but that also doesn't make sense as she is willing to put her fate meekly into your hands. And as I said, if you don't trust her, taking her captive would be much more sane than outright killing her then and there.

If you don't go to Feros first, then it's even worse because you already know that all her info checks out.

 

As for indoctrination, you are metagaming now because at that time, Shep and company don't know jack about it. If we are metagaming, than I can also say, I don't kill her because it turns out that she is one of the good guys.

[Trvp710]

As for indoctrination, you are metagaming now because at that time, Shep and company don't know jack about it. If we are metagaming, than I can also say, I don't kill her because it turns out that she is one of the good guys.

If you go to Noveria Benezia tells you that it is Sovereign controlling her, and not Saren. So from that it is safe to assume that Shepard knows that Sovereign is the tool to indoctrination, and Shepard will not be indoctrinated through joining minds with Shiala.

 

 

It doesn't make sense that this is a ruse because she never alters your plans with the information she gives you. She explains about indoctrination and what Saren and Sovereign are (which is valuable info, especially if you go to Feros first) but it doesn't change what Shepard was going to do in the first place (i.e. go to the other planets). The ruse might be that she is trying to make you let her live so she can do something later but that also doesn't make sense as she is willing to put her fate meekly into your hands. And as I said, if you don't trust her, taking her captive would be much more sane than outright killing her then and there.

If you don't go to Feros first, then it's even worse because you already know that all her info checks out.

I can see what you are saying here.

 

Shepard has just slaughtered five of her companions, along with a load of green zombies. Shiala knows that she won't get out alive if she fights him. From Shepard's point of view, he knows this aswell, and may assume that is why she was so honest to him, as some sort of final gamble to get out alive. I play as a Ruthless Shepard, and someone who has been brainwashed twice doesn't sit well with him. It is far safer to neutralise the threat rather than let her go and risk her being indoctrinated.

 

Edit: I am using the word "Indoctrinated" as a term to refer to Saren's way of using Sovereign to control his victims. I am aware that the term had not been used by anyone at that point in the game.

[cap and gown]

The Shiala decision is symptomatic of a lot of the roleplaying problems in the trilogy: two many binary decisions that are either trusting and naive, or cruel and evil. Why don't I have a choice to put her under arrest and interrogate her further, either at an Alliance or C-Sec facility? What about Elnora? Why can't I just handcuff her and leaver her be while I go off and deal with the rest of the mercs in the Eclipse base? Why is just either let her go or execute her? What about the Rachni queen. Why is the choice either to kill or set free? Isn't there some middle option available? What about simply contacting the Council and letting them decide? That's what Kaidan says Shepard should have done, to which I have to patiently respond "That wasn't one of the dialogue options, Kaidan."

 

At any rate, I only kill her when I am trying to build up my renegade score in preparation for a NG+. (I also kill all the colonists during these types of runs since that will net you 32 renegade points.) In any actual roleplyaing run I do not kill her. I have an extremely hard time imagining a psychopathic Shepard that has risen to the rank of Commander. You would think the Alliance would have weeded out such individuals by the time they had made it that far in their career.

[MrFob]

If you go to Noveria Benezia tells you that it is Sovereign controlling her, and not Saren. So from that it is safe to assume that Shepard knows that Sovereign is the tool to indoctrination, and Shepard will not be indoctrinated through joining minds with Shiala.

So your Shep believes everything Benezia says but nothing Shiala says even though Benezia actually attacks you herself directly? Hmmmm, I guess Benezia does give you the coordinates to the mue relay to make herself more believable but then, you don't really have any way to check the accuracy of that data at that point in time either.

I still think it's shady role playing to have those two events (the cypher mind meld and executing her due to danger of some form of mind control) so close together. If anything, I'd say there is an option missing here for Shep to be more skeptical about the whole mind meld thing but since that option doesn't exist, I still find the killing more cruel than anything else (although I do see the point in the second part of your post).

 

That's what Kaidan says Shepard should have done, to which I have to patiently respond "That wasn't one of the dialogue options, Kaidan."

I hate that bit of the game. First time I played ME1 I was really mad at Kaidan for putting this on me. Only later did I realize that I shouldn't be mad at Kaidan but really at the writer who wrote the rachni choice and than had the nerve to rub salt in the wound later as well. This really is a worst case scenario on how to conceal the limitations of decisions in video games.

[Felps Cross]

Shiala had potential to be a great character. It's sad that she wasnt developed enough throughout the trilogy. 

[KaiserShep]

I don't see how it can't be a ruse. Rana Thanoptis, Saren's secretary on Virmire, killed a bunch of people in ME 3 because of the time she spent with Saren. She tricked you twice into letting her escape. Why wouldn't Shiala do the same?

 

I believe you can only become indoctrinated through Reaper technology, so her joining her mind to yours won't indoctrinate you. At that point in the story, Shepard knew that it was Sovereign who could indoctrinate people and not Saren, depending if you went to Noveria before you went to Feros.

 

And I see how it can feel cold, but perhaps from Shepard's eyes he simply could not have risked letting her escape to cause harm to anyone.

 

 

I dislike the way the Rana Thanoptis thing was treated in ME2. There should have been the option to kill her outright right then and there, yet for some reason the trilogy commits to her survival through to 3 if you spare her in 1. I suppose it's moot though, since my preferred outcome was always to kill her on Virmire.

[introverted_assassin]

I didn't realize people struggled with this decision...or at the very least, thought about it. One of you mentioned Rana Thanoptis. By the time we make it to her, you know good and well what indoctrination is and when Adewale met her...something didn't curl all the way over and she killed her. I don't know how to describe it but Shiala's energy was different...didn't feel like she had any underlying pretense. She readily admits she is indoctrinated and that she went to the Thorian willingly. Rana tells you all about indoctrination but never admits to actually being indoctrinated ("I have to get out before the same thing happens to me"). Therein lies the difference for me.

That being typed, I have only killed Shiala once and hell to the naw I am not doing THAT again. It tactically and logically serves no purpose to me.

[Onewomanarmy]

I usually let her live, unless I play as a renegade, then I kill her off.

[WarGriffin]

Shiala to be me is one of those DICK renegade choices.

 

She's surrender

 

She has willingly put forth the information needed

 

Shows no real sign of her former loyalty to Benezia outside of maybe asking you to kill her

 

and if you do pick killing her, she freely accepts it.

 

 

This is where like the Rachni Queen, a neutral option should be there but isn't cause BINARY MORALITY CHOICE

 

Why not turn Shiala over to the Council authorities if you feel she's too dangerous to just let go but feel she's too much equally a victim to kill her for it?

 

Does the Normandy NOT have a Brig? just slap her in a stasis pod tranq'd out of her mind and ship her back to the citadel.

[Reorte]

Just going by the impression the characters give Rana Thanoptis sounds like she's doing anything just to save her life whilst Shiala is entirely honest. I suppose both are saying they made mistakes but Shiala sounds like she believes it.

That said neither really deserve to be shot, for the reasons already given (and there really should've been a choice to not let Rana Thanoptis go in ME2).

Also Shiala is one of the few asari I can take seriously. The rest might live an awful long time but don't seem to grow up much.

[DebatableBubble]

I used to not kill her at all except on my hardcore renegade runs. Nowadays, I kill her most of the time.

[Solace]

I have killed her each time, because from what we know at that point in the game, she is a loose end, too dangerous to risk it blowing up in your face. But at the same-time, I think she should have a chance to prove herself, but not without guard, so turning her in to the Authorities would of been prudent also.

[LineHolder]

The thing about 'choices' in Mass Effect (1-3) is that they don't have enough feedback to make a difference either way. And feedback shouldn't be restricted to solely success or failure in the game's story or gameplay. Because this will cause players to aggregate towards the 'perfect' choices rather than experience new flavors of the story. Choices should have and show immediate repercussions. Each path should have its own long term advantages and drawbacks. This should be easier to do on 'small choices' and I think the effects of 'small choices' should be resolved in the game they were introduced. Don't drag threads into future titles unnecessarily.

 

The way the trilogy stands now, you have to imagine things as you play along. There aren't any more incentives to care about the outcome of your choices. Take for example these useless scenarios,

 

- Kill or nor to kill Rachni queen. The only feedback you get is how it makes other characters feel. Don't talk to me about EMS in ME3. That stuff is garbage.

 

- Kill or not to kill Shiala. She gives you information about  Saren and Benezia either way. The only outcome of sparing or killing her is how it makes you feel.

 

- Save Council or Attack Sovereign. Ridiculous handling of the aftermath.

 

- Picking the human councilor.

 

- Sparing or killing Rana Thanoptis. She gives you the same information either way and ends up killing some random people off-screen in ME3.

 

And so on.

[WarGriffin]

The thing with Rana was less well of course she's indoctrinated!

 

and more... **** we need to get rid of all these side variables since a large chunk of those characters get off screened or killed unceremoniously

 

Similar to how emily just conveniently dies so hey we have a open Reporter slot

[MrFob]

Also, the thing about Rana is, she actively allied herself with Saren, starting to work for him on her own. She oversaw indoctrination research on Virmire which means she was the one in charge of all the imprisoned Salarians. Ginve that some of them were still coherent (that guy from the control group) and that indoctrination works slowly, she must have known that they were here with the STG to apprehend Saren on behalf of the council.

 

She knew that she was involved in criminal activity against the council and she willingly experimented on sentient beings, there is no question there. Shiala's case is less clear. Admittedly, we only hear her side of the story but from her account, she followed Benezia on a quest to persuade Saren to stop what he was doing (granted, the height of naivete and stupidity but at least somewhat noble in intention). For all we know, Shiala never hurt anyone even when she was working for the indoctrinated Benezia. All in all, she is much less dirty than Rana.

 

For the record, I also usually don't kill Rana. I get it if some players do but I don't believe in the death penalty for any crime and I certainly don't believe in in dealing out death sentences on a whim without a trial. Unfortunately, in this situation there is no time or opportunity to take a prisoner (so unlike in Shiala's case I understand why that wasn't an option) but I am not going to kill defenseless people who throw themselves at my mercy in cold blood. My headcanon is that Shepard issued a general arrest warrant for Rana in council space when back on the Normandy after Virmire (and updated the authorities on her whereabouts on Korlus in ME2). Unfortunately, she was never caught and causes some mayhem during ME3. But that's just bad luck, it doesn't invalidate the reasons for my previous decisions in ME1.

 

I really hope the new ship in Andromeda will have a brig and that we'll be able to make arrests. The binary let go or shoot mechanic didn't serve the ME sotry and it's many instances of morally grey decisions very well.

[capn233]

I might have killed her once in a pure renegade / ruthless run.  So I let her live practically every time.

[Stronglav]

She is just a victim.Why kill her?