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[leaguer of one]

To help people and to surround himself around people who can kill him if he starts acting like a demon agein.

[caradoc2000]

@caradoc2000 i cannot recall that scene but i started a new character yesterday so i will check it out

 

It is during the scene in which you recruit Cole in Skyhold. You have to side with the mages:

Careful: I believe that scene only shows up if you recruit the mages.  I could be wrong. 

[Sifr]

He is a demon who "helps" people by using blood magic to get into a person´s minds, make them forget anything he wants, probably causing them brain damage too. If the victim resists him or his magic won´t work like he expected, then he just murder knife you "for your own good". He does that plenty of times in Asunder and in Inquisition too - unless your Inquisitor is right there to stop him.

 

Why he does this? To make himself feel alive, instead of possessing he goes around messing with people´s minds, thinking he knows what is best for everyone - even death. Go back to the void, demon.

 

That was Lambert's view... which like so many other things about Lambert, was entirely wrong.

 

A Spirit is an idea and a purpose, whereas a Demon is that idea and purpose gone wrong.

 

Cole is a Spirit of Compassion and it in his nature to help people. His only reason for leaving the Fade was to try to comfort the real Cole who was dying of starvation, but found there was nothing he could do to help, something his Spirit nature couldn't handle. The only thing he could do was adopt the form of an idealised Cole without magic, sensing that the real one believed he wouldn't have been taken by the Templars if he was normal.

 

Cole's motives in Asunder are because he is still trying to help, but he doesn't understand how. Cole truly believed he was helping people by mercy killing those who wanted to die, unaware that what he was doing was wrong until Rhys explains it to him. As Solas later says of his own friend who became a demon, the original purpose of the spirit had become perverted into something wrong.

 

As an aside, for those who've seen 2001: A Space Odyssey, Cole is basically suffering the same problem as HAL in that movie. HAL's descent into villainy was not because he was evil, but because some bright spark in the military decided to classify the existence of the Monolith and order him to conceal the truth from the crew until they arrived at their destination, something HAL's programming couldn't handle. HAL was created to dispense information freely, so his resulting psychosis and decision to kill the crew was his attempt to resolve the ethical paradox and feedback loop, since without a crew, there would be no-one he needed to lie to. It's the same basic dilemma with Cole, how does a creature who's sole purpose is to help people, do so if it doesn't know how to help them, or has been actively prevented from helping them?

 

When it comes to Cole's abilities, they are not blood magic, but because his nature as a Spirit allows him to help people, then make them forget him to believe they found the solution to their problems by themselves. The reason Lambert labels it blood magic is because it is countered by the Litany of Adralla, which disrupts blood magic and mind domination. While that is one of it's functions, we can also see that it has a physical affect on creatures of the Fade, as it causes Cole to suffer a massive nosebleed, while staggering Uldred in Origins (assuming that wasn't just gameplay mechanics).

 

The line between a demon and a Spirit is complex. Cole was very much like a demon in Asunder and he even believes he was, but upon realising he was a Spirit and not a human ghost (ironically the only good thing Lambert accomplished), was finally able to put into focus what he was meant to be and doing.

[Patricia08]

@CardButton yes i can see now that that was the only reason that he joined i just thought there was more. Yes you are right they should give the people who came up with Cole a medal to come up with such a wierd creature and i mean wierd in a good way a human body  possessed by a spirit that's not something i would come up with in the beginning i did not like him very much but now i do like him   

 

Yes true he has really good party banter  

[Patricia08]

@carradoc2000 ok i wil side with the mages

[Patricia08]

@Mykel54 wel Mykel i totaly disagree with you that is not what Cole does he is not using blood magic and he is not giving the people who he helps brain damage he is a good spirit  

[fraggle]

Ah, Cole, the most adorable character in all DA. For me anyway.

I highly recommend reading Asunder where Cole first appears, it's a good book. Heartbreaking sometimes, but really good Also sets up the Mage-Templar conflict very nicely and you learn more about Rhys and Evangeline, too, both great characters imo.

When they revealed that Cole would be in the game as a companion, I was so damn happy, and I wasn't disappointed. He's probably my favourite companion and he's in my party almost every run.

 

Btw, to get the scene where Cole says it's too loud but that he can help by staying, you don't necessarily need to side with the mages, the conversation takes place with both sides I just got it last night and I sided with the Templars.

[Patricia08]

@sifr i did not know that there was so much more to Cole really liked your story

[Patricia08]

@fraggle i would not say he is the most adorable character in DA for me but i do like him.

Yes sifr mentioned that in his post also i only know Cole from DA I i never played DA O and DA 2 so i never heard of Asunder and Evangeline was that Cole's girlfriend ? that name just sounds familiar to me maybe i will read the book  

 

Ok good to know thanks   

[BSpud]

He is a demon who "helps" people by using blood magic to get into a person´s minds, make them forget anything he wants, probably causing them brain damage too. If the victim resists him or his magic won´t work like he expected, then he just murder knife you "for your own good". He does that plenty of times in Asunder and in Inquisition too - unless your Inquisitor is right there to stop him.

 

Why he does this? To make himself feel alive, instead of possessing he goes around messing with people´s minds, thinking he knows what is best for everyone - even death. Go back to the void, demon.

 

[fraggle]

@fraggle i would not say he is the most adorable character in DA for me but i do like him.

Yes sifr mentioned that in his post also i only know Cole from DA I i never played DA O and DA 2 so i never heard of Asunder and Evangeline was that Cole's girlfriend ? that name just sounds familiar to me maybe i will read the book  

 

Ok good to know thanks   

 

Cole is not in the old games, so don't worry, you're not missing content for him from these games

Evangeline and Rhys are Cole's friends, he talks about them a bit when you find him in Skyhold.

If you don't read the book in the end, there's always the wiki with a pretty good synopsis on what exactly happened in it.

[Aren]

Because he had nothing better to do like most of your companions of every DA games.

Edit

I think that one day Cole will end up like the Nightmare demon an almighty,all powerful,all evil spirit

[Patricia08]

@fraggle Ok good to know. I will check the wiki page then    i am not such a book reader  

[Patricia08]

@Leaguer of one you should definitly change your avatar what a scary looking girl/guy even if she/he is smiling 

[Patricia08]

@Aren i don't think so not Cole he is a good spirit and he will always be a good spirit

[Sifr]

@Aren i don't think so not Cole he is a good spirit and he will always be a good spirit

 

I think that's part of why Cole was able to back away from the point when he almost became a demon, because despite all the bad things he did in Asunder, he never did it with malevolence or for his own pleasure.

 

The murder of Lambert was a lot more ambiguous, but the reason he gives Cassandra is that he was trying to prevent the Lord Seeker from harming anyone else, having looked into his mind and saw exactly what kind of man he was and the lengths he'd have gone to to crush the Rebellion. Of course, the Templars believed the Mages assassinated him and so there was suffering when they retaliated, but Cole didn't know that at the time.

 

I think it's unlikely Cole will ever become a demon like Nightmare, because he now knows the lines that he must not cross and wants to avoid anything that could lead him down that path again. The difference between Cole and a demon is that despite all his mistakes, he has never stopped trying to help other people, even at his own peril, whereas demons are focused only on themselves at the expense of others.

[Patricia08]

@sifr i think i definitely have to read Asunder or that Wiki page where fraggle was talking about

[Mykel54]

That was Lambert's view... which like so many other things about Lambert, was entirely wrong.

 

A Spirit is an idea and a purpose, whereas a Demon is that idea and purpose gone wrong.

 

Cole is a Spirit of Compassion and it in his nature to help people. His only reason for leaving the Fade was to try to comfort the real Cole who was dying of starvation, but found there was nothing he could do to help, something his Spirit nature couldn't handle. The only thing he could do was adopt the form of an idealised Cole without magic, sensing that the real one believed he wouldn't have been taken by the Templars if he was normal.

 

Cole's motives in Asunder are because he is still trying to help, but he doesn't understand how. Cole truly believed he was helping people by mercy killing those who wanted to die, unaware that what he was doing was wrong until Rhys explains it to him. As Solas later says of his own friend who became a demon, the original purpose of the spirit had become perverted into something wrong.

 

As an aside, for those who've seen 2001: A Space Odyssey, Cole is basically suffering the same problem as HAL in that movie. HAL's descent into villainy was not because he was evil, but because some bright spark in the military decided to classify the existence of the Monolith and order him to conceal the truth from the crew until they arrived at their destination, something HAL's programming couldn't handle. HAL was created to dispense information freely, so his resulting psychosis and decision to kill the crew was his attempt to resolve the ethical paradox and feedback loop, since without a crew, there would be no-one he needed to lie to. It's the same basic dilemma with Cole, how does a creature who's sole purpose is to help people, do so if it doesn't know how to help them, or has been actively prevented from helping them?

 

When it comes to Cole's abilities, they are not blood magic, but because his nature as a Spirit allows him to help people, then make them forget him to believe they found the solution to their problems by themselves. The reason Lambert labels it blood magic is because it is countered by the Litany of Adralla, which disrupts blood magic and mind domination. While that is one of it's functions, we can also see that it has a physical affect on creatures of the Fade, as it causes Cole to suffer a massive nosebleed, while staggering Uldred in Origins (assuming that wasn't just gameplay mechanics).

 

The line between a demon and a Spirit is complex. Cole was very much like a demon in Asunder and he even believes he was, but upon realising he was a Spirit and not a human ghost (ironically the only good thing Lambert accomplished), was finally able to put into focus what he was meant to be and doing.

 

You haven´t addressed any of my points, just used Lambert as a strawman - as if he was the fuhrer of germany in WW2.

 

Cole is a demon when you meet him in DAI, even Solas doesn´t deny it - spirits don´t come to the real world and stay in it. Cole WAS a spirit in compassion, but got twisted into a demon of despair: the mages he kills in asunder weren´t suicidal, they were just desperate and paranoid at the templars + the unknown murders. Spirits don´t kill people and they don´t mess with anyone´s minds (blood magic). If you ask Josephine about Cole she´ll say how she remembers him but not what they talked about - just Cole using his powers to cause brain damage all around.

 

Solas is the most biased source ever, he probably was an spirit eons ago before he adopted the form on an elf, so of course he sympathizes with Cole. He also says how blood magic is fine, so no surprises there. And the Littany was specifically created to counter mind-control, not just any blood magic. Cole´s invisibility seems to be another way he messes around with your mind so you can´t see him.

 

You say that Cole helps people, as if he knows what is best for everyone. Is he omniscient? Can he see the future? Why should he be allowed to delete people´s thoughts without their permission? Is that good for people, to have your memories removed? According to Cole, it is. Yet Varric tells a very different tale: you need your memories to grow up as a person, his loyalty quest shows that people deal with things getting over them - not forgetting about them.

 

You conveniently forget how in DAI Cole wants to murder a wounded man because "he is suffering", and he only stops if you personally intervene to tell him that´s wrong. Is that different from Cole in Asunder?

[Sifr]

You haven´t addressed any of my points, just used Lambert as a strawman - as if he was the fuhrer of germany in WW2.

 

That's because none of your points have anything to do with Cole from either the book or in DAI, the person you are describing has a totally different character, mentality and set of powers? Likewise, it's not really making a strawman argument because Lambert was often wrong about the mages or Cole in Asunder, since he let paranoia and his overzealous attitude get the better of him. Invoking Godwin's doesn't change that.

 

Cole is a demon when you meet him in DAI, even Solas doesn´t deny it - spirits don´t come to the real world and stay in it. Cole WAS a spirit in compassion, but got twisted into a demon of despair: the mages he kills in asunder weren´t suicidal, they were just desperate and paranoid at the templars + the unknown murders. Spirits don´t kill people and they don´t mess with anyone´s minds (blood magic). If you ask Josephine about Cole she´ll say how she remembers him but not what they talked about - just Cole using his powers to cause brain damage all around.

 

Solas says that he doesn't know what Cole is and that he is unique. Solas even points out that the difference between Spirits and Demons both depend on the perception of the person seeing them and down to the entities own intent.

 

Josephine forgetting Cole is not because he's causing brain damage, but because Spirits of Compassion are supposed to be unnoticed by people normally. Mortal minds do not quite know how to process something like him, so the mind finds it easier to simply either ignore him or forget he exists. Think of it as being akin to how the perception filter works in Doctor Who.

 

Solas is the most biased source ever, he probably was an spirit eons ago before he adopted the form on an elf, so of course he sympathizes with Cole. He also says how blood magic is fine, so no surprises there. And the Littany was specifically created to counter mind-control, not just any blood magic. Cole´s invisibility seems to be another way he messes around with your mind so you can´t see him.

 

Blood magic is not inherently evil, but like any other magic, it has the potential for serious misuse in the wrong hands. As I noted above, Cole's invisibility isn't because he's messing with people's mind, but because he's not supposed to be seen by mortals, nor does he want attention.

 

You say that Cole helps people, as if he knows what is best for everyone. Is he omniscient? Can he see the future? Why should he be allowed to delete people´s thoughts without their permission? Is that good for people, to have your memories removed? According to Cole, it is. Yet Varric tells a very different tale: you need your memories to grow up as a person, his loyalty quest shows that people deal with things getting over them - not forgetting about them.

 

Cole can read minds, that's how he knows exactly what people's pain is and he uses that to try to help them overcome it. You are correct in that Cole's abilities to remove painful memories and experiences might not ultimately be best for them, because bad experiences can lead to someone deciding to seek positive things in the future and avoid anything similar to that.

 

Cole is not a god, nor does he know the outcome of his actions, but his compassion means that he is compelled to want to help someone feel better and he'd argue to delete bad memories that harm people. Spirits are not people with all the nuances that allow us to reconcile conflicting emotions and memories, they are relatively simple creatures with simple goals. If a Spirit of Compassion sees someone hurt, they want to help, they don't weigh the moral and ethical ramifications of erasing painful memories, they'd just immediately act because it's what they do.

 

You conveniently forget how in DAI Cole wants to murder a wounded man because "he is suffering", and he only stops if you personally intervene to tell him that´s wrong. Is that different from Cole in Asunder?

 

Cole was advocating euthanasia, because the man was suffering terribly and even the healers believed he wouldn't pull through. The Inquisitor tells Cole that no-one knows that for certain and to give him a chance, which leads him to eventually pull through... and we later learn that Cole was actually helping his recovery, leaving breadcrumbs on the ramparts to draw birds, as the man took comfort in seeing them.

 

Similarly, Cole was mercy killing those in Asunder because he believed that it was the only way to end their suffering, not realising that they weren't dying and that their suffering could have been helped in other ways.

[Walter Black]

To be fair, on repeated Asunder and Inquisition reviews, it seems even David Gaider and Patrick Weekes had different interpretations of who and what Cole is. Maybe not too different, or David wouldn't handed over his baby, but the signs are there.

[Beerfish]

Cause people thought he was an inserting character from one of the books.

[Korva]

It is during the scene in which you recruit Cole in Skyhold. You have to side with the mages:

 

You get it with a templar playthrough, too.

[caradoc2000]

You get it with a templar playthrough, too.

Mine didn't. Of course that doesn't mean it can't happen.

[Korva]

That is really odd, I never heard of it not triggering before. It's a pretty important scene for establishing his character, as well as Solas' support of him, and the first opportunity for the Inquisitor to decide how they react to his ways of helping people, so it kinda needs to be there no matter whom you allied with (or conscripted).

[Aren]

 

 

I think it's unlikely Cole will ever become a demon like Nightmare, because he now knows the lines that he must not cross and wants to avoid anything that could lead him down that path again. The difference between Cole and a demon is that despite all his mistakes, he has never stopped trying to help other people, even at his own peril, whereas demons are focused only on themselves at the expense of others.

The nightmare demon was a spirit of compassion like Cole who helped people by trying to remove their fears,at some point of it's history he started to use those fears to empower itself then he focused on the blights on purposes.

From what i grasped he endured as a spirit of compassion for a long period of time,everything can change after all especially during a lifespan that is eternal like the one of spirits.