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#76
AlanC9

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That could work, but only for bigger mods that couldn't be easily mimicked.
However, if installing mods was a closed system - you had to get them from the publisher - then maybe they could prevent it, but that would also make it impossible to develop or edit mods just for your own use without passing them through the official mod store.


I'm having trouble thinking of a case where this would be a serious issue. What sort of paid mod would this would be an issue for? I can think of a bunch of small technical mods which would be worth reverse-engineering -- my own UCS mod for NWN2, for instance -- but I can't see people charging for them, and I'm not sure we should be worried if they can't.

#77
Sylvius the Mad

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Funnily enough, so are the RPG elements. You can even play in action mode in ME3 which removes dialogue choices.

 

That doesn't change the fact that Mass Effect is not, and never has been, a pure RPG.

That won't stop me from trying to play it like one (and pointing out wherever it fails).


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#78
Sylvius the Mad

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I'm having trouble thinking of a case where this would be a serious issue. What sort of paid mod would this would be an issue for? I can think of a bunch of small technical mods which would be worth reverse-engineering -- my own UCS mod for NWN2, for instance -- but I can't see people charging for them, and I'm not sure we should be worried if they can't.

The suggestion was that modders or the publisher could try to game the paid mod system by breaking mods into small pieces into order to charge more for them.  The smaller the pieces, the easier to copy.



#79
Nihren

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None of them are substantive, outside of character customization options. 

^This. The only Inquisition mod I found worthwhile was one that made Cassandra look like her Dragon Age II incarnation. Less defined cheekbones and no scar. Other than that, I know of nothing that significantly alters the game in any way.

 

As for Mass Effect 3, I applaud peoples attempts to alter the story of the game with MEHEM, but I watched a video of it and it was just poor in quality. Can't fault them for trying, and the fact that they managed it was great, but I'll stick with the extended cut endings.

 

The reason I started this topic was more or less to try and raise interest in modding tools for Andromeda. Not that I truly believed Bioware/EA could be convinced to invest the time into figuring out how to make modding tools from Frostbite, but if the interest is there it at least puts it on the edge of the table if not the center of it. I was playing a heavily modded Skyrim when the idea occurred to me. I have multiple unique followers that I downloaded from Nexus. Each of them has their own backstory, though ultimately ending up a tavern patron. But each of them was sculpted from character creation mods to look far more unique than the cookie cutter default NPC's. And I began to wonder what it would be like if people created their own unique Mass Effect characters to inhabit the Andromeda galaxy. What if players could create their own unique planets or spaces? I'd also love to see what kinds of romantic interests people could conjure up. And of course, who wouldn't love to see Miranda, Shepard, and/or Garrus rendered in the Frostbite engine?

 

One can dream I suppose.



#80
BountyhunterGER

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But they're just aesthetic mods. Which is lame.

Yes I agree with that, but he asked "what in the game is moddable?" and that was my answer.. 

 

at least my Qunari has long good looking hair now :)



#81
Chealec

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I'm having trouble thinking of a case where this would be a serious issue. What sort of paid mod would this would be an issue for? I can think of a bunch of small technical mods which would be worth reverse-engineering -- my own UCS mod for NWN2, for instance -- but I can't see people charging for them, and I'm not sure we should be worried if they can't.

 

The biggest issue, IIRC, when Valve launched paid-for mods with Skyrim was simply that people were downloading existing mods, rebranding them (maybe a colour change or something minor) and slapping them onto the store with a price-sticker.

 

The issue with paid-for mods is basically one of quality (and IP) control.

 

I'm not against the idea in principle but the only way I can see it working is with some kind of digital signature that the devs can apply to mods to mark them as "safe", tested and have passed some QC checks... as used to happen with X3; X3:TC was basically X3:R with a load of additional content rolled in by the X-Tended mod team (they were given a temporary contract with Egosoft while building the game I think).

 

Counterstrike and Team Fortress are similar except Valve just employed the mod teams to make CS:Source and TF:2.



#82
Scofield

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Im sure the answers giving to the exact same question asked before DA:I hit are still relevant


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#83
Sanunes

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Im sure the answers giving to the exact same question asked before DA:I hit are still relevant

 

This is the one conversation that I have bookmarked from when they did give some answers. Just to note, I have it reduced to only show BioWare posts.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition Toolkit



#84
thepiebaker

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Hopefully that comes back to bite them, hard. I kinda doubt it will, though.

Not that I have much faith in a mod marketplace curated by Beth themselves. You'd still have go over their heads to walk around the commonwealth in a Batsuit, forget about all the terrific mods that can potentially break stuff (and of course, the nudie mods).

But yes, robust modding tools for PC (at minimum) should be mandatory in every game like this. If they can get such a thing working on consoles too, that would be great, but either way.


Depending on how they contract the terms and conditions for the mods and a toggle here and there they may very well be able to host cross-over mods like the batsuit or have adulterated mods. However mods will probably be handled like steamworks.

I do think it would be an idea that if EA wanted to have mod support for their games to release a Dev kit with pc versions and have the mods be exported exclusively to a origin based server for content control.

One thing that makes them twinge at the thought of mod support is probably item packs being reconstructed as mods. For example when origins had all that pre order items from 20 places I saw a mod that had all of them but different icons and flavor texts to say they were different items but had the exact same stats.

#85
Little Princess Peach

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Bioware are afraid of modders because they would most likely do a better job then what they would do prove me wrong Bioware after the crud with the bugs in Inquisitation you need modders to help your games



#86
FKA_Servo

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Depending on how they contract the terms and conditions for the mods and a toggle here and there they may very well be able to host cross-over mods like the batsuit or have adulterated mods. However mods will probably be handled like steamworks.

I do think it would be an idea that if EA wanted to have mod support for their games to release a Dev kit with pc versions and have the mods be exported exclusively to a origin based server for content control.

One thing that makes them twinge at the thought of mod support is probably item packs being reconstructed as mods. For example when origins had all that pre order items from 20 places I saw a mod that had all of them but different icons and flavor texts to say they were different items but had the exact same stats.

 

Well, the batsuit example was sort of a catch-all for protected material. There isn't much to prevent PC players from getting their hands on that sort of stuff, but hosting it in an official mod depository would be problematic unless they plan on licensing every blessed little thing a mod creator wants to add. Additionally, with Skyrim and previous Fallouts, a lot of the more ambitious (and gamechanging) mods require script extenders and such that do some deep mucking around with the game's processes - which I also think would be a non-starter on consoles. And I think Todd Howard put the kibbosh on adult mods when they first announced it as well.

 

Otherwise, good. Retail specific pre-order bonuses (any pre-oder bonuses, really) are garbage, and they should be discouraged there.But I agree that there's no reason why it couldn't work.

 

Maybe Xboxes and Playstations should just run windows.



#87
AlanC9

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The suggestion was that modders or the publisher could try to game the paid mod system by breaking mods into small pieces into order to charge more for them.  The smaller the pieces, the easier to copy.


I'm having trouble visualizing the specifics here, I guess. Can you give me an exampke of a mod that coukd be broken up that way?

#88
AlanC9

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The biggest issue, IIRC, when Valve launched paid-for mods with Skyrim was simply that people were downloading existing mods, rebranding them (maybe a colour change or something minor) and slapping them onto the store with a price-sticker.
 


And consumers were stupid enough -- er, misinformed enough -- to pay for something they could get for free? Frankly, it never occurred to me that this could work, since I'd always look at the free stuff first.

#89
Cyberstrike nTo

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Depending on how they contract the terms and conditions for the mods and a toggle here and there they may very well be able to host cross-over mods like the batsuit or have adulterated mods. However mods will probably be handled like steamworks.

I do think it would be an idea that if EA wanted to have mod support for their games to release a Dev kit with pc versions and have the mods be exported exclusively to a origin based server for content control.

One thing that makes them twinge at the thought of mod support is probably item packs being reconstructed as mods. For example when origins had all that pre order items from 20 places I saw a mod that had all of them but different icons and flavor texts to say they were different items but had the exact same stats.

 

So in other EA approved and authorized fan-made DLC that I would have to pay for? I'm not sure if that is good thing or not. 



#90
Sylvius the Mad

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I'm having trouble visualizing the specifics here, I guess. Can you give me an exampke of a mod that coukd be broken up that way?

Equipment mods. One mod for each weapon type or armour variation.

#91
thepiebaker

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Maybe Xboxes and Playstations should just run windows.


Funny, xboxes runs a modified variant of windows. Every update to the xbox that changes the dashboard is a OS (xp>vista>7>8>10 etc) update. And each of them was not long after those OS were released for pcs.

#92
Nitrocuban

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Mod support for a game that has a MP with micro payment to unlock stuff is a no-no.



#93
AlanC9

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Equipment mods. One mod for each weapon type or armour variation.

Specifically equipment with new looks, right? Any fool can whip up an item with whatever properties are desired in a moddable game.

Yeah, this is a blind spot for me. I can't even imagine looking for a free appearance mod, let alone paying for one. But wouldn't encryption work for this?

#94
Sylvius the Mad

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Specifically equipment with new looks, right? Any fool can whip up an item with whatever properties are desired in a moddable game.

Yeah, this is a blind spot for me. I can't even imagine looking for a free appearance mod, let alone paying for one. But wouldn't encryption work for this?

If all mods have to be encrypted to be installed, how would modders install and test their mods. And if they can encrypt the mods themselves, that puts both envryption and decryption in the hands of the public. That's not encryption. That's a roadmap.

Where does the encryption happen?

Also, those aren't just cosmetic mods. The Heavy Armoury mod for Skyrim creates all new weapon types, adds them to crafting and loot tables, and distributes them among NPCs. Suddenly guards are carrying not just swords amd axes, but halberds and shortspears.

#95
Chealec

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And consumers were stupid enough -- er, misinformed enough -- to pay for something they could get for free? Frankly, it never occurred to me that this could work, since I'd always look at the free stuff first.

 

You underestimate human stupidity ;)



#96
UniformGreyColor

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I have to be one of the weird ones, i think. While i will mod a Bethesda game, i will never change the core design of the game. I see mods as an oppurtunity to eliminate small annoyances, like every game suffers from. If there was a mod to make the planet scanning in Mass Effect 2 instantaneous i would download that without hesitation. Is there such a mod btw?

 

Different strokes for different folks. When I was playing Skyrim I think I had about 160 mods active at one time. Some mods drastically changed what the vanilla game even intended. Some mods I had required mods that required mods for them to even work right. Through all that time spent, I had a blast doing it and I enjoyed Skyrim all the more for it.

 

EA is forcing its developers to use an engine that was designed to be hard to mod. This is what we can do for now.

 

Its never a good thing when a company can force people to do anything -it doesn't make sense in any economic system.

 

That could work, but only for bigger mods that couldn't be easily mimicked.

However, if installing mods was a closed system - you had to get them from the publisher - then maybe they could prevent it, but that would also make it impossible to develop or edit mods just for your own use without passing them through the official mod store.

 

If that would be the case, not only would we probably have to end up saying bye-bye to almost all mods (which would then be called mods, but would really be DLC), but we would have to say good bye to ini file tweaks as well -a basic utility that should always be available even if you don't use mods.

 

I'm having trouble visualizing the specifics here, I guess. Can you give me an exampke of a mod that coukd be broken up that way?

 

 

Equipment mods. One mod for each weapon type or armour variation.

 

Mods are already broken up in ways that make sense on the Nexus website: weapon mods, gameplay mods, cheat mods what have you. Even in the scope that those categories remain the same, but require you to pay for the mods it would really either just end up being built into the cost of the game, or we would end up having to pay for not only premium side quest content, but as we see with DA:I we would have to pay for everything, including an epilog, and mods as well. I am not against paid DLC, but it should definitely be optional and not serve as an extension of the main quest.

 

Specifically equipment with new looks, right? Any fool can whip up an item with whatever properties are desired in a moddable game.

Yeah, this is a blind spot for me. I can't even imagine looking for a free appearance mod, let alone paying for one. But wouldn't encryption work for this?

 

There is a pretty big chunk of people who would pay for aesthetic mods. All one has to do is visit the page The Eyes of Beauty, a mod devoted to something as small as eyes, and look at just how many people endorsed, viewed and downloaded that one particular mod and you can see right away that there very well could be a relatively large market for aesthetic mods alone.

 

If all mods have to be encrypted to be installed, how would modders install and test their mods. And if they can encrypt the mods themselves, that puts both envryption and decryption in the hands of the public. That's not encryption. That's a roadmap.

Where does the encryption happen?

Also, those aren't just cosmetic mods. The Heavy Armoury mod for Skyrim creates all new weapon types, adds them to crafting and loot tables, and distributes them among NPCs. Suddenly guards are carrying not just swords amd axes, but halberds and shortspears.

 

And The heavy Armoury mod is really just the tip of the iceberg for the potential of what mods can bring to the table. There are gameplay mods that when used in combination with one another, the game is so different mechanically that it is barely recognisable when viewing the game through the lens of what the mechanics of gameplay is like alone, and frankly, I would much rather have the option to change as much of the game in particular parts or as little of the game in particular parts as I want.


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#97
AlanC9

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If all mods have to be encrypted to be installed, how would modders install and test their mods. And if they can encrypt the mods themselves, that puts both envryption and decryption in the hands of the public. That's not encryption. That's a roadmap.


I was thinking of NWN Premium mods. Only the paid mods would be encrypted, which would happen as they were put on the store. AFAIK that worked out fine; if there's an editable copy of Wyvern Crown of Cormyr around, I've never seen it. The mod creator would still have his original unencrypted files, of course.

Granted, this was technically easier for NWN since modding the original game maps wasn't a thing.

#98
Sylvius the Mad

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I was thinking of NWN Premium mods. Only the paid mods would be encrypted, which would happen as they were put on the store. AFAIK that worked out fine; if there's an editable copy of Wyvern Crown of Cormyr around, I've never seen it. The mod creator would still have his original unencrypted files, of course.

Granted, this was technically easier for NWN since modding the original game maps wasn't a thing.

Again, we're back to bigger mods. I conceded this approach would work for bigger mods.

#99
Sanunes

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Its never a good thing when a company can force people to do anything -it doesn't make sense in any economic system.

 

 

We really don't know if EA forced anyone to adopt to Frostbite, the only thing we know is that EA is the parent company for BioWare and DiCE.  Normally by now if a developer or publisher has done something that people inside the studio doesn't like I will have seen a former employee will have anonymously said to some game publication how they were forced into this decision and that hasn't happened yet with Frostbite.



#100
Sylvius the Mad

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We really don't know if EA forced anyone to adopt to Frostbite, the only thing we know is that EA is the parent company for BioWare and DiCE. Normally by now if a developer or publisher has done something that people inside the studio doesn't like I will have seen a former employee will have anonymously said to some game publication how they were forced into this decision and that hasn't happened yet with Frostbite.

It seems very much like EA created incentives for developers to use Frostbite, likely something like exempting FB license fees from their budget, but not doing that for competing engines, and not approving budgets that contained engine development.