156 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Is ME3 Shepard wildly acting out of character or is it that you just don't like the character?

 

Outside of decking a reporter because Bioware still thought it was funny, Shepard doesn't act out of character in ME3. He or she is NEVER going to be ruthless for the sake of it (like he or she is in ME2) and he or she is never going to be so stupidly idealistic that he or she can't take loss and sacrifice. He or She will always stay within acceptable range. Notice how if Shepard shoots Mordin and Falere, he or she is pained by it, you see, this is so a Paragon could choose these options and stay in character.

 

The problem with ME1 and ME2 is that Bioware simply put, doesn't grasp the concept of grey morality. You see grey morality has moral justification. Shepard time and time again is allowed to commit actions with no moral justification such as punching a cleaning guy in the ducts and saying that he or she enjoys it. and when actions could be justifiable, Shepard's attitude takes away this justification. Killing the Rachni queen is an example.

 

Look at The Witcher 3, look at Life is Strange, both games allow the protagonist to react to different situations, but stay in character. And frankly, ME3 allows the same thing.

 

Shep is contantly acting out of character in ME3, unless you spam the appropriate option, then you get 2 varieties of ****. If what they really cared about was consistency they should have asked players at start for their morality choice and then removed all choice or remove morality choice from the game completely. I think that's an utterly appalling prospect i wouldn't play and betrays the foundation of the premise but at least it would be more honest than ME3. ME3 is an especially big betrayal because he/she isn't a new character he is someone who has background of 2 games with a much wider and open characterisation approach.

 

I'd disagree a lot of the time extreme options(intimidation/violence etc) in ME1/2 are perfectly valid within the moral framework of the role.

[Midnight Bliss]

For a dialogue wheel....range is bad. This means that your character is not consistent. Not only this, the voice acting will wildly vary in tone, making the performance suffer. Thats why ME1 and ME2's dialogue system sucks. Shepard becomes wildly out of character if the player chooses different options and doesn;t stay consistent in the upper right or lower right.

 

DA2 suffered from tone problems because the range was ridiculous. 

 

What makes ME3's wheel superior is that any Shepard can say any line (for the most part). This actually allows you more freedom of choice without fear of Shepard acting wildly out of character.

I play a fully neutral Shepard for the trilogy (As in, I choose a range of paragon, neutral, renegade across the whole game) and her dialogue and personality never felt out of character and she never came off like multiple people. I never had that problem in DA2, either. (I know what you mean about the tone thing though, I think it sounded a little, off? sometimes)

 

What you're talking about sounds like DAI, where you pretty much have to be full paragon cliche hero or else, because half the "mean" Choices felt like they were written by a 14 year old and involve OOC nastiness, and a bunch of the neutral options felt weird or unbelievable. Where even if you did play full/mostly paragon you still had terrible situations that made your character look like a joke and you couldn't avoid it, IE, Bianca threatening you while the Inquis stands there looking like a moron, or seemingly neutral/good choices that end up making you be evil or look like a tool. (Leliana killing some nun against your orders and you not even being able to call her out) And I'm not even going to bring up all the weirdly delivered lines and bad PC voice acting.

 

I do agree that ME3 had the best renegade for morality choices, but ME2's "badass" Stuff was pretty awesome, - being able to ride roughshod over space pirates and cut through the BS and just shoot criminals was fabulous and I'd be severely disappointed if that ends up absent from ME4.

[KaiserShep]

Then don't use a dialogue wheel or use voice acting.

You go one way or the other, the middle doesn't work.

Bioware should go more in the defined protagonist direction....there are other companies and games that will handle characters that allow more options better such as Obsidian or inExile

In your opinion it doesn't work. I simply disagree with your assessment, and to be honest, I enjoy the inquisitor a great deal more than I enjoy Shepard, despite the latter's greater levels of intensity, and at times I can get kind of tired of Shepard's overstated emotional responses when there could have been an option to be flippant or dismissive (saying sorry to the asari councilor lol). I prefer a moment like the Inquisitor's possible responses to the anchor and realization of the Inquisition's corruption in Trespasser over what Ive seen in ME. BioWare's one of the few out there that actually provides better quality voice acting regardless, so I don't really give a sh*t what Obsidian or whoever else does.

[txgoldrush]

Shep is contantly acting out of character in ME3, unless you spam the appropriate option, then you get 2 varieties of ****. If what they really cared about was consistency they should have asked players at start for their morality choice and then removed all choice or remove morality choice from the game completely. I think that's an utterly appalling prospect i wouldn't play and betrays the foundation of the premise but at least it would be more honest than ME3. ME3 is an especially big betrayal because he/she isn't a new character he is someone who has background of 2 games with a much wider and open characterisation approach.

 

I'd disagree a lot of the time extreme options(intimidation/violence etc) in ME1/2 are perfectly valid within the moral framework of the role.

Wrong....you don't have to spam in ME3, In ME1 and ME2 you do.

 

Face it, the morality of ME1 and ME2 was poorly written and that's why ME3 changed things. You just didn't like it.

 

Shepard takes away moral justification for his actions in ME1 and ME2 with his attitude. The fatal flaw with renegade in the first two games is that they attached a tone to the Renegade when it wasn't about tone. Renegade is not about being a jerk, its about the ends justifying the means. Its poor writing.

 

And ME3 does choice and consequence better than the first two games, the notion that they removed choice, other than being jerk Sith Lord Shep, is absurd.

 

Hell, there are times in ME2 where Paragon Shepards actions don't fit Paragon, like threatening to break the elcor merchant's legs or lying to Conrad.

[txgoldrush]

In your opinion it doesn't work. I simply disagree with your assessment, and to be honest, I enjoy the inquisitor a great deal more than I enjoy Shepard, despite the latter's greater levels of intensity, and at times I can get kind of tired of Shepard's overstated emotional responses when there could have been an option to be flippant or dismissive (saying sorry to the asari councilor lol). I prefer a moment like the Inquisitor's possible responses to the anchor and realization of the Inquisition's corruption in Trespasser over what Ive seen in ME. BioWare's one of the few out there that actually provides better quality voice acting regardless, so I don't really give a sh*t what Obsidian or whoever else does.

Then they can lose to CD Projeckt RED who realizes that choice has to fit the character.

 

Many find the Inquisitor boring while Shepard is a gaming icon. Those are the results and the reception.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Then they can lose to CD Projeckt RED who realizes that choice has to fit the character.

 

Many find the Inquisitor boring while Shepard is a gaming icon. Those are the results and the reception.

The results of playing three games with the same character verses only the one with the other.

[Andrew Lucas]

Then they can lose to CD Projeckt RED who realizes that choice has to fit the character.
 
Many find the Inquisitor boring while Shepard is a gaming icon. Those are the results and the reception.

This.

[Andrew Lucas]

The results of playing three games with the same character verses only the one with the other.

Longevity ≠ quality

[ComedicSociopathy]

Anyone else pissed that their Shep was forced to give a damn about Thessia? I know I sure am. 

[KaiserShep]

Then they can lose to CD Projeckt RED who realizes that choice has to fit the character.

 

Many find the Inquisitor boring while Shepard is a gaming icon. Those are the results and the reception.

 

 

Wait, I'm supposed to care about this? Dragon Age isn't an epic about a single protagonist anyway, so big whoop who considers what a gaming icon. Mario is a gaming icon. Sh*t that shroom-eating turtle murderer is bigger than Mickey Mouse. 

[themikefest]

Anyone else pissed that their Shep was forced to give a damn about Thessia? I know I sure am. 

I was. I don't care about Thessia. I only care about stopping the reapers

[KaiserShep]

Anyone else pissed that their Shep was forced to give a damn about Thessia? I know I sure am. 

 

 

I'm just disappointed that Shepard was automatically being apologetic to the councilor. I would've preferred to vent frustration over the asari hiding the beacon instead, and hang up on her for old time's sake. Whether or not the councilor even knew about it would be irrelevant. There's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have such a choice in dialogue rather than the entire sequence being on total autopilot. It's not as if being diplomatic to the Council is at all meaningful at that point. They're all f*cked anyhow until Hackett and Shepard's team assault TIM's base. 

[ZipZap2000]

I'm just disappointed that Shepard was automatically being apologetic to the councilor. I would've preferred to vent frustration over the asari hiding the beacon instead, and hang up on her for old time's sake. Whether or not the councilor even knew about it would be irrelevant.

Give her the Admiral Gerrel/Kalisah Bint Sinan Al Jilani treatment in person.

[KaiserShep]

Give her the Admiral Gerrel/Kalisah Bint Sinan Al Jilani treatment in person.

 

 

I actually don't like hitting any of the NPC's, particularly Kalisah. My favorite bit is the intimidate dialogue in ME2 where you can bullrush her stupid show. I'm always tempted to hit Gerrel, but the fact that Joker's dialogue can clash with this so it's even less incentive to bother.

[ZipZap2000]

I actually don't like hitting any of the NPC's, particularly Kalisah. My favorite bit is the intimidate dialogue in ME2 where you can bullrush her stupid show. I'm always tempted to hit Gerrel, but the fact that Joker's dialogue can clash with this so it's even less incentive to bother.

I never not punch him. Trying to kill 4 Normandy crew members is a capital offence. If I didn't need those fleets.

[txgoldrush]

But notice that you can punch Gerrel (Renegade) and then snap at Xen (Paragon) and Shepard will never split personality here.

 

Nevermind that Renegade interrupts in ME3, its feasible for a Paragon to do, and Shepard won't have a split personality.

[txgoldrush]

 

Wait, I'm supposed to care about this? Dragon Age isn't an epic about a single protagonist anyway, so big whoop who considers what a gaming icon. Mario is a gaming icon. Sh*t that shroom-eating turtle murderer is bigger than Mickey Mouse. 

 

And Dragon Age is less consistent in quality as a series than Mass Effect or The Witcher.

 

Dragon Age simply put, its Bioware's B-Franchise.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Longevity ≠ quality

Longevity does help with the icon status though.

[KaiserShep]

And Dragon Age is less consistent in quality as a series than Mass Effect or The Witcher.

 

Dragon Age simply put, its Bioware's B-Franchise.

 

 

This is not even relevant to the subject of the protagonist for these games, though I'd seriously challenge the idea of consistency of quality for Mass Effect. Despite what the big fans might think, I think that ME fluctuates wildly in terms of overall quality. While it certainly outshines its counterpart on a technical level, I will never agree that it does so in terms of character design or writing. I can't comment on the Witcher, as I only have 3 to work with. 

 

As for being the B-franchise, that's a pretty meaningless statement. Mass Effect is a scifi shooter set in space where you get to meet weird aliens and robots and kill them or mate with some of them, so of course it's going to be the more popular franchise. 

[ZipZap2000]

But notice that you can punch Gerrel (Renegade) and then snap at Xen (Paragon) and Shepard will never split personality here.

Nevermind that Renegade interrupts in ME3, its feasible for a Paragon to do, and Shepard won't have a split personality.

I don't see how punching Gerrel for almost killing you Tali and legion is inconsistent with telling Xen to f*** off away from Legion.

Keelah she's such a ******.

[Midnight Bliss]

Wrong....you don't have to spam in ME3, In ME1 and ME2 you do.

 

Face it, the morality of ME1 and ME2 was poorly written and that's why ME3 changed things. You just didn't like it.

 

Shepard takes away moral justification for his actions in ME1 and ME2 with his attitude. The fatal flaw with renegade in the first two games is that they attached a tone to the Renegade when it wasn't about tone. Renegade is not about being a jerk, its about the ends justifying the means. Its poor writing.

 

And ME3 does choice and consequence better than the first two games, the notion that they removed choice, other than being jerk Sith Lord Shep, is absurd.

 

Hell, there are times in ME2 where Paragon Shepards actions don't fit Paragon, like threatening to break the elcor merchant's legs or lying to Conrad.

This is why you play a neutral character; you know, a real person like all the other characters, instead of some crappy one shaded morality nonsense with zero depth.

 

It isn't Carebears so of course trying to MC something like that sucks.

 

ME1 & ME2 Renegade were just fine considering Shep had strong Renegade tones all through my trilogy run and she never came off like a bad person/evil/a monster/nasty/pointlessly violent and felt completely perfect when ME3 came round.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Then they can lose to CD Projeckt RED who realizes that choice has to fit the character.

 

Many find the Inquisitor boring while Shepard is a gaming icon. Those are the results and the reception.

Whereas I find Shepard boring (because I don't get to play her - I only get to watch her), while the Inquisitor is the best RPG protagonist in years.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And Dragon Age is less consistent in quality as a series than Mass Effect or The Witcher.

Yes.  Dragon Age is at least occasionally good.

[SlottsMachine]

Yes.  Dragon Age is at least occasionally good.

 

Spoiler

[wright1978]

Wrong....you don't have to spam in ME3, In ME1 and ME2 you do.

Face it, the morality of ME1 and ME2 was poorly written and that's why ME3 changed things. You just didn't like it.

Shepard takes away moral justification for his actions in ME1 and ME2 with his attitude. The fatal flaw with renegade in the first two games is that they attached a tone to the Renegade when it wasn't about tone. Renegade is not about being a jerk, its about the ends justifying the means. Its poor writing.

And ME3 does choice and consequence better than the first two games, the notion that they removed choice, other than being jerk Sith Lord Shep, is absurd.

Hell, there are times in ME2 where Paragon Shepards actions don't fit Paragon, like threatening to break the elcor merchant's legs or lying to Conrad.

No in me3 you have to spam if consistency is what you desire because there are no neutral options and huge amounts of auto dialogue.

No the moral justification of his/her attitude is largely fine in me1/2. Me3 certainly doesn't do choice and consequence better, largely because it is so decapitated.

Why would lying to Conrad be a bad thing. Lying can be a valuable human tool used to protect people.