23 réponses à ce sujet

[Mirajj]

Hey guys, first off I would like to mention that I am a decently experienced builder with the Aurora toolset. I recently made the jump to NWN2 and I'm building a module while figuring things out on the fly, which for the most part is going very well.  However, I do have a few questions in a few different areas and I thought maybe I could post them here with the hope that some of you more experienced builders might catch a peek at it. 

 

My first question is in regard to Hak Packs, 2da files and Erf's.  I didn't use them very often in NWN1 and when I did, it was mainly just to play a module that someone else had created, never used them in any of my own.

 

I was wondering if perhaps someone could guide me to some good source material that would elaborate on the specifics of each and how to go about using them.  (I've downloaded a few erf's and added a few blueprints so I'm not completely clueless but aside from that I have no experience with them.)  To be perfectly honest I've run into a few issues trying to install content to the toolset before.  Some of the items would show up in their respective categories but the actual placeable would not show up.  Any advice regarding these issues or just the before mentioned items in general would be greatly appreciated.

 

My next question is somewhat specific.  I've managed to pull off some pretty great area's in my module (which I'll be working on for some time) but I've run into a situation that has stumped me.   I'm attempting to build a walkway that continues off the edge of a floating island.  The walkway would have nothing under it, (the center of the map is basically elevated 90 units and will basically be the entire area as far as the pc is concerned)  I'd like it to extend a good ways out.  I'd rather not use a bridge as I'd like to create the walkway myself (shading, coloring, etc) and I was wondering if their is some custom content out there that might help facilitate this, or if someone has any ideas on how I might go about doing so by manipulating terrain/textures etc.  I'm not opposed to using placeables either, however I have a pretty specific idea in mind so using the typical bridges won't work.   I appreciate your help in advance, thank you for your time.

 

Also, any materials that you could recommend that touch on the intermediate/advanced side of the toolset, would be greatly appreciated.  I've watched most of the tutorials I could find on YouTube and only a handful of them touched on topics I didn't already have a basic knowledge of.  (Not that I have an extensive knowledge of the toolset, it's just that most of them are geared toward complete beginners with little to no experience at all.)

 

Again, thanks guys.

[andysks]

Hi Mirajj. First things first, good luck with your module .

 

Now, in short, an erf is just a file containing things to import to your toolset. It is not needed to play the module. For example, if I make a couple of creatures and then click export on my toolset, I do so by making an erf file. Then send it to you, and on turn you choose import. Then you have my two creatures.

 

The placeable not showing is a 2da issue probably. You might have imported a custom model, but there is no reference to it so that it actually shows. This is why the people who make custom stuff also modify the 2da files. You need both to work.

A 2da file... I don't know how to explain but in my head it is basically information files. Someone will certainly correct me now, but I think they are just referencing and in many cases co-exist with the tlk file(for example when it comes to custom placeable models), the model name, which texture it uses and so on. If you don't make such custom models on your own, the 2da files are always provided by the people who make them, and nowadays we have combined packs so you probably won't have to merge any 2da files.

 

A hak is a file that contains anything extra you want to have in your campaign. Like 2da files, custom tilesets, custom textures and so on. You assign them to your module properties. However, it also works if you drop the custom stuff in your campaign folder. I like to think of a hak as something custom that the player should not have access to if he doesn't know how.

 

About your area, could you provide a picture? It helps greatly. I've done some crazy walkmeshes before and I think I could help you if I could see what you are trying to do.

 

A last advice, is to create a campaign instead of a module. Even if your work will only have one module, creating a campaign opens up many more possibilities and goodies. There is a stickied guide here for how to do it.

[Mirajj]

Hey Thanks Andy!  Appreciate the luck!  It should be incredibly large so I'm probably going to need it!

 

Also thank you for the explinations in regard to the various types of files.  I pretty much had the basis of it down you did clarifying some things for me though, so thank you for that.  I actually did have the 2da files and for some reason the placeables didn't show up.  It's no big deal though I can sort that out later now that you've given me the information I needed.

 

In reference to what I'm trying to do, I actually ran across a photo of someone doing something similar to what I was trying to do.

The walkway is extended passed the ledge on it's own and I'm attempting to do the same thing. 

 

 

[Tchos]

In addition to what Andy said about ERFs, I add that once you've imported the resource from it, you don't need it at all anymore, because a copy of the resources are now part of your module.

 

Another reason your placeables may not have shown up is if you imported a blueprint from an ERF but did not import the actual model or texture (MDB and DDS or TGA).  Additionally, the most important thing to know about 2DAs is that you can only have one of each type at a time.  For instance, the placeables.2da.  If you have more than one, only one will be used, and it may not be the one you want.  Make sure there's only one.  That means that if the 2DA you're using doesn't have the new placeables in it, you have to merge the data from the new 2DA into your module's 2DA. 

 

These 2DAs can be opened in the toolset, or in a text editor, or in any program that reads delimited items as cells like a spreadsheet, or in special tools made to read NWN2 files like TlkEdit2.  You can just copy and paste the information, keeping the line numbers the same if possible.  If you have to move the placeables to different lines because the ones they were given are already occupied, you'll have to rebuild the blueprints for those items.

[ColorsFade]

For your walkway, you want to use what is called a Walkmesh Helper. You will find them in blueprints. You need to turn on C2 Data under the Collision button to see them in the toolset and manipulate them (height, width, length). The Collision button is in the upper left next to the Occlusion Grid button.

 

Walkmesh helpers, in general, override any other walkmesh priorities, including interior walls and non-walk areas you setup using the paint. 

 

There are some tricks to making walkmesh helpers work and bake an area correctly, however, especially in tricky-to-bake areas. I've had a lot of this to do lately and ran into a lot of issues, so here's my advice.

 

1) If possible, and if you're putting it on ONE level (which is preferable), make one huge walkmesh helper and then use walkmesh cutters in the areas you don't want the player to walk.

 

2) As much as possible, make all your placeables in the area environmental. If they are not environmental, the walkmesh, upon bake, will try and integrate the vertexes of all the placeables. It can foul things up fast with your walkmesh. It is better to make everything (or as much as possible) an environmental object and then use a walkmesh cutter around thing to prevent the PC from walking over/through them.

 

3) When placing walkmesh cutters, if at all possible, try and make the cutters square or rectangular. The more vertexes you put into a walkmesh cutter, the harder you make it on the math of the bake algorithm, and it can screw up your walkable area. I've found this out first-hand over much trial and error. The simpler your walkmesh cutters, the better for your whole area.

[ColorsFade]

Something to keep in mind about .ERF files: when you import them, they import into your Module folder of the currently open Module. If they are a resource you want to use for multiple modules in a Campaign, you need to close the toolset, open your module folder, find the files, and move them to your campaign folder. Then they are automatically available to all your modules. Module resources, under blueprints, are bolded. Campaign resources have an underline. 

 

For this reason, if you're using a Campaign (and like Andy, I recommend it), if an author of some 3rd-party content provides an .ERF or a .ZIP, always choose the zip file and extract it to your Campaign folder. Also, for organizational purposes, I highly recommend making sub-folders in your Campaign folder and extracting resources to the sub-folders. This keeps your main Campaign folder from being a cluttered mess, and keeps all your 3rd party content organized (if you've played Tchos' mod, the Black Source of Candle cove, go look in his Campaign folder for a good example of organization). 

 

HAK files: these confused me at first. They are simply an archive, like a zip file, but one that the game recognizes. They have to be attached to each Module in order for your module to recognize the contents. 

Why use a HAK file? Because of priority. In the NWN2 toolset, the game engine creates a hierarchy to prioritize files in the event of duplicates. Example: if you have duplicate files in Module folder, campaign folder, and a HAK file, the game makes the HAK file version the highest priority and uses that one. It will override the version of the same file in the Campaign folder, and the Module folder. 

 

Campaign files are supposed to override Module files.

 

And HAK files, if I remember correctly, have higher precedent over the override folder as well. 

[Mirajj]

Thank you Tchos for the extra information.  I actually went through the trouble of getting TLKEdit2 and I placed the correct names in the correct spots and had to have the program renumber the tabular date because of a duplicate.  (Did this a few days ago.)  I just went in my toolset and checked the 2da and everything shows up as it should.  So at this point I have an imported .erf (which adds the blueprints to my palette) and I've checked the nwn_icons.2da and the placeables.2da files which correspond with the correct tabular data.  Am I missing something?  Also, I have the hak pack in my Hak folder.  I thought I had a pretty good handle on what was going on but I'm rather new to it so I'm sure I could be missing steps.   Is there something else I should be doing?

[andysks]

What ColorsFade said is the way to do such a thing by the way . The main trick is the part that you cover your area, or part, with one walkmesh helper and then cut your desired path with a walkmesh cutter. It takes a while to get used to it, and perhaps some failed bakes where you will want to throw your PC out of the window, but it's worth it because (in my opinion) an out of the ordinary walkmesh (for such fantasy areas of course) adds to immersion.

[Mirajj]

Okay, so for the walkmesh I'll take your advice and make everything (or as much as possible) environmental objects and I'll use the walkmesh helper to create the designated area for the "platform" while using the cutters to make square and rectangular non-walk areas.  My next question..  is how did he make the platform itself?   Is it a placeable?  Curb?  Or is that custom content?  I can't seem to find anything that I can manipulate to give both the appearance and desired effect.  Again, I appreciate the advice, all of you have been a huge help.

[kamal_]

Okay, so for the walkmesh I'll take your advice and making everything (or as much as possible) environmental objects and I'll use the walkmesh helper to create the designated area for the "platform" and use the cutters to make square and rectangular non-walk areas. My next question..  is how did he make the platform itself?   Is it a placeable?  Curb?  or something?  Or is that custom content?  I can't seem to find anything that I can manipulate to give both the appearance and desired effect.  Again, I appreciate the advice, all of you have been a huge help.

That's a custom placeable. And she.

[Mirajj]

Oh nice!  And Sorry  

 

Is that an area that you did?  It looks amazing.

[kamal_]

Oh nice!  And Sorry

 

Is that an area that you did?  It looks amazing.

Not me. That area was made by MokahTGS. The TGS stands for The Grumpy Strumpet.

 

The area was also made by ripping the terrain into pieces using a utility to get the ground floating in air like that. It's a more advanced building topic, and kind of off topic for hak packs, 2das etc. which is the thread title.

[Mirajj]

Terra Coppa. As I said I had already designed an area that this specific type of walkway would be perfect for. While the area is different, it's floating and the end of the walkway will act as a meeting point for an NPC on an inverted cone shaped column in the center what appears to be nothingness. The only part of the area that I haven't been able to construct (which makes perfect sense now that I have the facts regarding the custom placeable) is the platform itself. Seeing as though the only part of the platform I really needed to manipulate anyway is the color and/or texture, I may just alter a curb placeable or something similar and use it in it's place, using a similar texture pattern to the "terrain walkways" that are provided for easier blending. In addition, I realize that the topics are different entirely in their nature but it seemed redundant to me to make another post to ask a second, one sentence question, when I could just post it here and get multiple responses, which I did. Again, I appreciate the help everyone.   Oh, and the title reads Haks, 2da, Erfs AND advice on a suspended walkway. 

[ColorsFade]

I kind of see what you're talking about now, and you may still be able to use the regular landscaping to get your platform. 

 

One thing I've started doing for some areas, which I only figured out by downloading other people's prefab work, is to use the "black" texture to make landscape more or less invisible. If you raise up the walkable area, and let the rest of it "drop away", and then make that dropped away area black texture, you can more or less achieve the look you're after. You may have to do some work with placeables on the "edges" to block things off, but it might be more flexible option than just floating a curb. 

 

As always, try a few things out until you get something you like

[Mirajj]

I actually tried doing that, after I used Terra Coppa to rip the landscape up and created the "island"  I tried raising the terrain that was still at 0 units in height beneath it, up to the desired height and colored it black.  I could probably get away with it If the bottom of the floating island hand more substance but it's almost "rounded" in appearance, so it's hard to hide.  Also, there will be a typical day/night cycle so during the day it would definitly be noticeable.  I suppose making it completely night cycle might not be a bad idea though while I'm thinking about it. 

 

I think the walkmesh helper is going to work great though.  I'm sure there is some downloadable custom content out there that would fit the bill, I'll do some digging and see what I can come up with.  As always, you guys have been a tremendous help.  It's great to see this community is still alive. 

[Tchos]

had to have the program renumber the tabular date because of a duplicate.  (Did this a few days ago.)  I just went in my toolset and checked the 2da and everything shows up as it should.  So at this point I have an imported .erf (which adds the blueprints to my palette)

 

Any time you change in which order items in your 2DA are listed, it will cause any existing blueprints that relied on the original listing location to show either the wrong placeable or nothing, depending on what is in the line number it expected.  For any such affected blueprints, check their properties and see what it says under "Appearance", right at the top of the properties.  It should point to your expected placeable.  If not, change it.

 

Also, check to see if the hak you're using has its own 2DA inside.  If it does, it may be conflicting with your changes, and you should remove it.

 

What ColorsFade said is the way to do such a thing by the way . The main trick is the part that you cover your area, or part, with one walkmesh helper and then cut your desired path with a walkmesh cutter.

 

Yes, that's the way I did BSoCC's kuo-toa temple walkways and platforms suspended over the waters.  It all baked easily, and even matched up with all of the ramps with no trouble.  I also used it in one of my first areas, the overwater map.

 

As for environmental objects, I would recommend not converting anything that's supposed to block the camera's sight, like a wall or a building, for reasons I described in more detail elsewhere.

 

In the case of the curving walkway in Mokah's floating land, I would first see if it has a built-in walkmesh that bakes fine by itself.  There would be no need to add a walkmesh helper in that case, and it should be left as a placeable if so.  The large walkmesh helper technique is more called for when you're trying to make a complicated network of connected placeables that don't bake easily.

[Mirajj]

Awesome!  Thanks Tchos!  Mokah has her platform in downloadable content?  That'd be great if she'd be alright with me using it.

[Mirajj]

oh and the only reason the tabular data needed to be renumbered was because there was a duplicate in the original x2 files.  The items that were placed in the table were done after checking wikia to make sure that the those numbers weren't designated by someone else and shouldn't correlate with anything in the OC.

[kamal_]

This pack: http://neverwinterva...able-cornucopia

is basically every placeable ever released and a compatible 2da and blueprints for them. I highly recommend it, and you can just remove the files from it you don't use.

[Mirajj]

Wow thanks man.  Do I need all the updates too?  and is that platform in here?

[Tchos]

I would not expect the platform is available for others to use right now, since she's still working on the module it was created for.  Typically I would expect the custom content created for a particular project to be released after the project's release.  There are many other placeables, though, which may serve your needs just as well, depending on what they are.

[Mirajj]

oh awesome okay.  I wasn't aware she was still working on it.  Thanks for the heads up, and all the help.  You guys are great.

[MokahTGS]

I hope you all know that summoning me is a dangerous game...you better all have the appropriate offerings of tacos...
 
To the point, I have some good news for Mirajj as that placeable is not mine and available for download to the general public.  It's a sidewalk piece from the City Hak available here.

 

As Kamal mentioned before, that area has all sorts of custom stuff done.  Its a blend of placeables, smoke and mirrors, and terrain fiddling with tools.  The good news is those sidewalks come with their own walkmesh, so you can place them, and bake.

 

For that area in question, I wrote up a tutorial for the process, which you can find here.

[Mirajj]

You're awesome Mokah.  Thank you.  You saved me a ton of headache.