Project: Lazarus.
Massive endeavor, making miracles. Resources from all over the galaxy required. Staggering costs, ignored in hopes of success.
Did Cerberus' miracle bankrupt the galaxy? The expense and scope of Shepard's resurrection is harped on much more than the Crucible's.
Not a good comparison, the crucible was a joint project involving many species, LP was only done by a single organization (which has inconsistent writing).
The galaxy didn't realized the threat of the reaper's posed until it was too late when Earth, Palaven, Khar'shan and the most of the terminus systems were quickly under reaper occupation. So the galaxy was still pretty much caught by surprise since no one in the galaxy was ready for them.
The crucible is the largest construction project in the galactic history. The fact that most if not all resources from all across the galaxy are bring poured into gives a good idea on the toll its taking on the economy.
Not the same fraking thing.
The galaxy's economy, and infrastructure were intact because reaper plan A failed. The citadel trap failed which means the galaxy's leadership is intact and able to respond to the reaper threat BETTER than any other past cycle since the creation of the Citadel. The citadel being saved also meant that the mass relays were NOT seized. The citadel allowed teh reapers to control the mass relays according to javik which cut off the Prothean Empire into tiny pocket kingdoms and because they had no diversity now every pocket empire had no unique solutions to the problem. With the loss of the citadel and the mass relay infrastructure the galactic economy collapsed in the last cycle and they were STILL able to try and build the crucible but failed to complete it according to star brat and Javik, as there was an argument over how to use it, to destroy or control the reapers. So this is even more evidence that the crucible isn't as huge a project as you have inflated in your mind if the Protheans in a shattered economy could attempt to build it. AND it STILL took centuries for the reaper to harvest the past cycle with everything going right against the prothean's cycle and so many things going wrong for teh reapers in Shepard's cycle.
Shepard's cycle was in the best shape of any cycle to deal with the reapers. There is zero reason to believe that things are worse off than the previous cycle when the reapers had failed in so many war goals when plan A and plan B failed. I will grant the earth is an the verge of being lost and that humans as a fighting force don't have centuries but the galaxy does because we KNOW from multiple sources that the cycles don't take years they take centuries and in that time the organics of the current cycle continue to fight and invest huge amounts of capital to try and find a way to survive for example the facility that Javik was found in which was started centuries after the Protheans lost their economy, mass relay infrastructure and leadership on the first day of the war. Ilos is another secret project that would require huge capital investment and it AGAIN was able to be created in a shattered economy while the crucible was being built. These examples alone prove your premiss wrong the the crucible requires so many resources that no other secret project could possibly be attempted.
Are you seriously going to try and justify your OPINION that the crucible makes all other projects impossible? Why do I get the feeling that none of what i said matters, that the champions of OPINION will ignore yet another set of data showing their premiss has no foundation in fact to stand on and they will continue to say the crucible is too expensive to have any other secret project in the galaxy to exist?
. As many as half of all stars in existence are thought to reside between galaxies rather than in them,
source?
Not a good comparison, the crucible was a joint project involving many species, LP was only done by a single organization (which has inconsistent writing).
Your arguments don't even make sense.
Not a good comparison, the crucible was a joint project involving many species, LP was only done by a single organization (which has inconsistent writing).
The Lazarus Project in general was very poorly done, and up until the Catalyst, was the dumbest single plot point in the series.
I am basing these options on the 'Ark departs before arrival of the Reapers, or at the least before Crucible is used' premise. This is due to the fact that my understanding of ME:A is to partly not set the cannon ending for ME3 while preserving largely recognizable technology of ME universe.
Slower than light drive. Cryogenic stasis or v~c for time dilation.
Note: Allows for things like arriving to Andromeda to find that Milky Way galaxy survived (in any state), progressed, developed FTL drive, arrived to Andromeda and went extinct/was destroyed all during the Arks travel time.
Direct Reaper salvage
Note: Unlikely as indoctrination from directly salvaged drive will be the main concern.
Direct Collector salvage
Note: More likely than Reaper drive in both the availability (multiple black ships were hinted on), the fact that salvage would happen around the time Shepard offed the Collector Base, giving time to integrate it in a ship, and the lack of shown indoctrination effects.
Reverse engineer of Reaper drive.
Note: Runs in the same issue as integrating the drive directly. Even dead reapers can indoctrinate the organics, so working on studying the drive in sufficient detail (remote probes are likely insufficient for studying extremely massive complicated piece of technology) in sufficient time frame is unlikely.
Reverse engineer of collector drive.
Note: This could be possible REing a collector ship drive (captured roughly at the time of the destruction of collector's base) would allow pouring resources into this project before the arrival of Reapers and thus would not interfere with Crucible construction. Ship captured - drive studied - potential for deep space exploration/emergency escape noted - model for drive technology created - prototype created - Reapers arrive - prototype used for Ark. Last few steps can be shuffled depending on personal preference.
Old Tech:
Note: Liara can always find some more tech in Mars archive! Or Leviathans could give humans drive tech just to get rid of them. Or Javik could remember some tech cache location. This is one of those all too used devices that I am sure BW can come use to explain anything, and likely not very gracefully.
New Tech:
Note: Can always discover some non-mass effect model and use it to break out of Reaper's tech cycle. But this is actually a lot harder than people realize. There is a LOT of inertia in thinking. Its not simply 'oh, now that we know that there other technological advancement paths outside of mass effect fields, let me go develop FTL drive, be back in 10 minutes'. The process would be slow and a lot of much simpler devices would need to be developed on the way.
Since the fact is that the next game will be set in the Andromeda galaxy...
... does it really matter? It's a done deal... who gives a flying f**k how they got there?
There is a whole board of bored people here. Any discussion on this forum currently will be a speculation or a request thread. And I'd rather we speculated on the way to get to Andromeda than have yet another discussion on romance/sex scenes/nudity.
Since the fact is that the next game will be set in the Andromeda galaxy...
... does it really matter? It's a done deal... who gives a flying f**k how they got there?
It matters because some of us would like the setting to take itself seriously. And not just use handwaves to get around difficult plot points.
It matters because some of us would like the setting to take itself seriously. And not just use handwaves to get around difficult plot points.
I would respectfully ask you the same thing I asked in the 2 rewrite projects back in 2013, Iakus.
Please tell us your solutions to these problems. You have probably written more words criticizing ME than anyone else I can think of and in the 10's of thousands of posts you have made in the last few years. I cannot recall many where you provided a solution, only seemed to be negatively switching things to stay in the negative world you adopted.
And that makes me a sad liitle puppy, because I am very aware that you do have an advanced knowledge of the franchise lore, plus the imagination to be creative and inspirational when you do start speculating and twisting lore.
I would respectfully ask you the same thing I asked in the 2 rewrite projects back in 2013, Iakus.
Please tell us your solutions to these problems. You have probably written more words criticizing ME than anyone else I can think of and in the 10's of thousands of posts you have made in the last few years. I cannot recall many where you provided a solution, only seemed to be negatively switching things to stay in the negative world you adopted.
And that makes me a sad liitle puppy, because I am very aware that you do have an advanced knowledge of the franchise lore, plus the imagination to be creative and inspirational when you do start speculating and twisting lore.
Honestly, there is no "good" solution if they are insisting on going to another galaxy. If it were up to me, I'd just reboot the series, or canonize something completely different from what happened, or otherwise pretend the ME3 debacle never happened.
But I have, in fact provided "solutions". But people seem to rather argue with me than discuss them:
http://forum.bioware...rd-alternative/
Honestly, there is no "good" solution if they are insisting on going to another galaxy. If it were up to me, I'd just reboot the series, or canonize something completely different from what happened, or otherwise pretend the ME3 debacle never happened.
But I have, in fact provided "solutions". But people seem to rather argue with me than discuss them:
You rail against Andromeda but your alternatives are objectively worse. The whole franchise is built on the premise of player choice but you think BioWare should throw that out.
Since the fact is that the next game will be set in the Andromeda galaxy...
... does it really matter? It's a done deal... who gives a flying f**k how they got there?
How about this?
The Remnant are exactly what they sound like: the remnants of Milky Way civilizations that made it to Andromeda after fleeing the Reapers. The Ark is a vessel made by the Remnant that is sent through a wormhole to the Milky Way every cycle to preserve the civilizations of the Milky Way and deposit them in their own star cluster in Andromeda. It has an AI that learns from each culture by gathering transmitted data and uses it to regulate the use of the Ark, ensuring that no single species or group uses the Ark to their exclusive benefit. The Ark's AI gathers tons of data before making itself known to the people it deems best suited to preparing our cycle for the expedition. The Ark arrived years before the Reaper invasion, all the preparations were made in secret by utilizing the Ark's super-advanced tech, and the trip back through the wormhole happened just after the start of ME3.
The Remnant are crazy-advanced because they fled the Reapers hundreds of millions of years ago and were free to innovate and create without the cycles and leap-frogged the Reapers because the Reapers had no reason to innovate and improve what they viewed to be a perfect system. But the Remnant disappeared a long time before we get there, and the Ark is merely running on auto-pilot. In the Remnant's absence the Khet are raiding and plundering whatever they can get their hands on. In order to defend ourselves from the Khet we must gather our own Remnant tech/resources and convince the Ark's AI to assist us.
There. No more unreasonable than "The Reapers" and much less stupid than "they kill us to save us."
You rail against Andromeda but your alternatives are objectively worse. The whole franchise is built on the premise of player choice but you think BioWare should throw that out.
Is it? Don't you mean the illusion of choice?
No, I mean choice. The series was never sold on and propped up by "the illusion of choice." Canonizing an ending or homogenizing all the endings into one would be an explicit admission that they never cared about player choice.
Is it? Don't you mean the illusion of choice?
Is Kilroy talking about me? Can't tell 'cause I've got him on ignore.
As to "illusion of choice" that illusion ended when Shepard got spaced and every choice that was made being rendered pointless. and I don't see why Bioware continues with the charade.
At any rate, I did try to make a thread focusing on more "positive" aspects, trying to come up with scenarios that at least wouldn't make my brain bleed. ANd that was teh point of my post.
No, I mean choice. The series was never sold on and propped up by "the illusion of choice." Canonizing an ending or homogenizing all the endings into one would be an explicit admission that they never cared about player choice.
They don't really anyway - most choices boil down to a non-choice within the plot at large (they have to, otherwise it would be an impossible endeavour to make the game last over a trilogy). So it is an illusion of choice.
I really don't understand why people are so hung up on this player choice thing, it's quite odd.
Not the same fraking thing.
The galaxy's economy, and infrastructure were intact because reaper plan A failed. The citadel trap failed which means the galaxy's leadership is intact and able to respond to the reaper threat BETTER than any other past cycle since the creation of the Citadel. The citadel being saved also meant that the mass relays were NOT seized. The citadel allowed teh reapers to control the mass relays according to javik which cut off the Prothean Empire into tiny pocket kingdoms and because they had no diversity now every pocket empire had no unique solutions to the problem. With the loss of the citadel and the mass relay infrastructure the galactic economy collapsed in the last cycle and they were STILL able to try and build the crucible but failed to complete it according to star brat and Javik, as there was an argument over how to use it, to destroy or control the reapers. So this is even more evidence that the crucible isn't as huge a project as you have inflated in your mind if the Protheans in a shattered economy could attempt to build it. AND it STILL took centuries for the reaper to harvest the past cycle with everything going right against the prothean's cycle and so many things going wrong for teh reapers in Shepard's cycle.
The economy would collapse if the the war doesn't end within a year if the war doesn't come to an end.
This financial report is for top-level embassy access only. According to financial estimates from First Irune Investment Trusts, a division of Elkoss Combine, the Citadel races cannot sustain the cost of the war effort for more than one year. Although military spending has stimulated certain market sectors, shortages and rationing in other areas has depressed the financial system. Civilian discretionary spending has fallen except in entertainment areas like escapist vids or drinking. First Irune is borrowing heavily to provide funds for key functions across the Citadel, but if the war does not end within the next year, galactic financial collapse is inevitable.
Also the crucible is joint effort with most if not all species in the galaxy contributing to its construction, the crucible is so big that part of design is to dock with the citadel. There was a lot of emphasis given on the scale of the project with Hackett saying that "its the larges construction project in galactic history." so its quite evident that writers made it to be to be an extremely large scale project.
Shepard's cycle was in the best shape of any cycle to deal with the reapers. There is zero reason to believe that things are worse off than the previous cycle when the reapers had failed in so many war goals when plan A and plan B failed. I will grant the earth is an the verge of being lost and that humans as a fighting force don't have centuries but the galaxy does because we KNOW from multiple sources that the cycles don't take years they take centuries and in that time the organics of the current cycle continue to fight and invest huge amounts of capital to try and find a way to survive for example the facility that Javik was found in which was started centuries after the Protheans lost their economy, mass relay infrastructure and leadership on the first day of the war. Ilos is another secret project that would require huge capital investment and it AGAIN was able to be created in a shattered economy while the crucible was being built. These examples alone prove your premiss wrong the the crucible requires so many resources that no other secret project could possibly be attempted.
No one was prepared for the reaper's since the alliance/council choose to bury their heads in the sand "ah yes reaper's". They had about three years to do some preparation for their arrival and they wasted it.
Are you seriously going to try and justify your OPINION that the crucible makes all other projects impossible? Why do I get the feeling that none of what i said matters, that the champions of OPINION will ignore yet another set of data showing their premiss has no foundation in fact to stand on and they will continue to say the crucible is too expensive to have any other secret project in the galaxy to exist?
The whole idea that the galaxy is some how able to fight the reaper's and support to extremely resource demanding projects when the economy is barely holding together is absurd.
No, I mean choice. The series was never sold on and propped up by "the illusion of choice." Canonizing an ending or homogenizing all the endings into one would be an explicit admission that they never cared about player choice.
Honestly, there is no "good" solution if they are insisting on going to another galaxy. If it were up to me, I'd just reboot the series, or canonize something completely different from what happened, or otherwise pretend the ME3 debacle never happened.
I would too.
My personal favorite would be to redo the trilogy.
Your arguments don't even make sense.
You comparing something that was done by a single organization to something something that was a joint effort.
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