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A practical look at how we are going to get from the Milky Way to Andromeda


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#126
wright1978

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It's silly when you consider half-arsing two massive projects when galactic life is on the line is not a good long-term investment.

 

Edit:  Actually, does this mean that I can blame this "Ark" project for the Crucible being damaged no matter how high my EMS score is?   ;)

 

It very much depends when the projects started and who started them. The ark i feel would need to have been a long-term work in progress since end of ME1(when it seems abundantly clear there was evidence of what sovereign really was despite what was publically said. If that's the case continuing to fund completion of the ark whilst also investing in the early stages of the crucible makes sense. Also ME3 makes ark seem predominantly an alliance op, from which alien species are recruited to help out, whereas it might make more sense for the ark to be a council project rather than specifically an alliance one. Even with the crucible the alliance may not want to pull out all their resources at that stage jeopardising human places on the ark if the crucible project turns out to be a failure.



#127
AntarcticWildlife

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It very much depends when the projects started and who started them. The ark i feel would need to have been a long-term work in progress since end of ME1(when it seems abundantly clear there was evidence of what sovereign really was despite what was publically said. 

 

Which was never mentioned anywhere in the codex or in game, therefore it would be a totally ridiculous thing to just shove in as lore imo.



#128
Andrew Lucas

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Frankly, I'm not sure there is a "realistic" way to reach Andromeda using currently existing technology.  Not without leaving a gaping plot hole as to why the Reapers aren't there too.
 
But if we're looking for something that leaves a shred of plausibility, there's a couple of options:
 
1) wormhole, natural or artificial.  I actually liked that fanfic Cerberus News story about the volus physicist who had a theory of intergalactic travel being possible using eezo and a black hole to create a "natural mass relay"
 
2) Outside tech.  By this I mean tech that came from outside the cycles:  not Reaper tech or any race built upon their technology.  That leaves, as Ambassador G'Kar put it "a new race, or an old race.  A very old race"  Something from outside the cycles.
 
The Leviathans are certainly a possibility for an old race.  They predate the Reapers, and somehow managed to avoid extinction at their hands.  It may be that while they lacked the strength to face the Reapers head-on, they have the means to transport themselves to places the Reapers can't reach.  Like another galaxy. Or perhaps they used to have it, lost it, and this cycle finds it again.
 
As for a new race, as I said in another thread, perhaps something akin to Rendevous with Rama happens.  An automated ship from outside teh galaxy appears.  The people of this cycle find it, study it, heck, perhaps hitch a ride on it.  And they find a way to explore a new galaxy.  One untouched by the reapers.
 
And hopefully without that Green Utopia or "inevitable robot uprising" BS.


While they can be implausible, even for a setting already pretty much implausible, seems like good ways to go.

#129
Ahriman

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Which was never mentioned anywhere in the codex or in game, therefore it would be a totally ridiculous thing to just shove in as lore imo.

Why would it? We find out about secret projects only when we are about to destroy them.


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#130
Killroy

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Which was never mentioned anywhere in the codex or in game, therefore it would be a totally ridiculous thing to just shove in as lore imo.


Why would the secret escape plan be made known to everyone?
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#131
wright1978

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Which was never mentioned anywhere in the codex or in game, therefore it would be a totally ridiculous thing to just shove in as lore imo.

 

Why would it though if it was top secret? Certainly not something you'd let slip to a SPECTRE who's on the frontlines being exposed to reapers constantly.


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#132
Timberley

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Based on this image, I suspect it will involve some sort of handwaving technology, possibly akin to a super-relay or such.  As for who made it, I'm going to say the Leviathan aliens.  They seem to be hyper-advanced enough to create technology that's Clarke's 3rd Law compliant, what with the Reapers and all.  

 

I do hope, however, that it's something that was discovered independently of Shep and the gang, or the Protheans, and is what the Council races were actually pratting about with in ME2, explaining their lack of concern over the Collectors.  Insert science-sounding babble about them studying the device and learning that it has some sort of FTL corridor to another galaxy, probably Andromeda.  At the start of the Reaper War, the Pathfinder flotilla of expeditionary ships were waiting for their order to jump, but got attacked by Reapers (as they will undoubtedly be aware of the existence something their creators made).  Chaos ensued and a bunch of ships jumped through anyway (including the SSV Not-Citadel).   They arrived in Andromeda to discover that the Super Relay can't be reactivated.  MEA begins...

 

Tim



#133
AlleyD

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I've been playing around with some speculation and head canon about how to Justify a HUMAN component to a multi species ARK project within the timeframe of the Reapers discovery and invasion.

 

Using an On Screen perspective of the game world in ME. I believe is almost impossible to justify that the Alliance could build an ARK without some major retcons of the series that could be perceived as breach the integrity of the previous games in story, character and lore. ME3 directly shown the Alliance were totally unprepared for the Reapers Invasion and the strategic high command were fighting too many fires, committing all resources available to them to the Citadel project. Running the 2 projects in parallel is problematic and makes major characters dialogue scripts look foolish or totally wrong.

 

So How could humans contribute? Time to look beyond the on screen Military perspective and look at a far bigger picture of human civilization in space; The commercial and civilian world that we only saw glimpses of. I'll try and put some form of perspective on this in an extended timeline.

 

The Mass Effect Human time line starts in 2069 with the establishment of human colonies on Luna. The next entry is for 2070 and the departure of the Maxwell Expedition to colonize another star sector. This indicates a pretty advanced level of capability in engineering solutions to allow human colonization had been achieved in the previous few decades. Military exploitation of space is prohibited by treaties and there is not enough political will to jump start space exploration in an economic crisis like 2016, so how did we get started for real?

 

How that could have happened from today's perspective of space exploration is through corporate interests that had made space exploitation profitable and sustainable. Currently there are 2 leading companies that target different forms of exploiting the potential in Near Earth Asteroid mining. This is a massive resource pool and relatively easy to access with current technologies that the companies have developed.

 

The figures are astronomical in current economic values. A 500mtr Silica asteroid is forecast with a yield potential of aqueous silicate of around $5 Trillion; this is the target of the company Planetary Resources. Their technological system is called “Asteroid Perspiration Systems” and it would be ESSENTIAL in the MEU. Humans need to unfreeze the Mass Relay and this tech is designed to exploit water and ice for rocket propulsion and supporting organic life.

 

The second company, Deep Space Industries targets metallic asteroids for rare minerals and space construction purposes. They value a 500mtr platinum asteroid at around $3 Trillion. Their process of exploitation is more long term investment, their “Bacterial Decomposition Process” takes several years to work efficiently, but they have developed major advances in manufacturing and construction processes using vacuum 3D printing.

 

If these pay out; the next gold rush begins and a technological uplift would follow, but it would pay out most for the first movers if they also controlled the supply tech chain. Essentially they would control the means to exploit space. Any colonization or exploration effort would be under their, near total control.

 

How this refers to MEU is that it is uncannily similar monster as Eldfell-Ashland Energy's wiki entry:

 

In 2137, the Ashland Energy Corporation successfully extracted helium-3 from Saturn's atmosphere, beginning a new era of fusion research. On the wave of this success, they merged with Eldfell Construction to vertically integrate the two companies' strengths. Ashland would recover the raw materials for energy production, and Eldfell would build power plants, refineries, and pipelines on nearby worlds to distribute Ashland's products to the consumer. Eldfell-Ashland Energy was born.

As EAE's reach extended, they absorbed companies to create a "cradle-to-grave corporate experience" for their employees. Today, subsidiaries such as Second Star Living recruit colonists to staff EAE facilities, and the education group Excelsior provides job-related education opportunities to provide EAE stations with a qualified incoming workforce. Water, power, food, shipping -- EAE provides them all. If EAE wants to put a colony on a garden world, they are able to do so and keep 90% of services performed completely in-house, creating consumers out of its own employees. Its primary revenue stream, however, continues to come from mining base elements like hydrogen, helium-3, and eezo and trading in their futures.

 

Forget the Alliance, they were simply a police force and political arm of a far larger entity that was already exploring and colonizing space successfully for decades and was their major tech supplier. The Alliance built NOTHING, they contracted out to those who already did that work for commercial purposes.

 

Possibly one of the places most capable of constructing ARK components in humanity is Caleston and Eldfell Ashland are named interest. This is the supply planet of Alliance drive cores etc, best equipped facility in humanity to develop ME technologies into practical applications and possibly the place that Cerberus stole the Normandy SR2 drive design from in period after ME1. This was developed into a practical, highly efficient design by a team with relatively limited resources. What could be under R and D on a world like Caleston? 

 

The Alliance also are not the major exploration, colonization or exploitation presence in the human timeline; again most likely this was EAE flexing its muscles and reach in the shark pool of interstellar commerce, growing into a Megalodon capable of taken sizable chunks out the Asari Blue whales, and hold its own against other species corporate sharks.  The galactic economy  had been in stasis since the Rachni wars, but was stimulated by the introduction of a capitalist monster that grew to hold around a 20% stake in the total galactic economy. And that monster was Jonah Ashland most probably The Asari certainly respect him enough to consider doing serious business with.

 

If you want to see who moves people, builds the colonies and keeps them alive. Has a successful track record of return on high risk exploration ventures of several decades, and the capacity to do cutting edge Mass Effect engineering, Bioware wrote in Eldfell Ashland in a way I hope to have shown to have the most plausible capability for an ARK that features humans.



#134
AntarcticWildlife

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Why would the secret escape plan be made known to everyone?

 

Why would it though if it was top secret? Certainly not something you'd let slip to a SPECTRE who's on the frontlines being exposed to reapers constantly.

 

Why would it? We find out about secret projects only when we are about to destroy them.

 

'It was all a secret' is just as bad as 'because space magic' imo.



#135
Killroy

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'It was all a secret' is just as bad as 'because space magic' imo.

 

But that's objectively stupid. Do you know about your government's secret military projects? Or their classified communications? 


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#136
ZipZap2000

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If the forums are anything to go by (wich they're not) BioWare still has some work to do to get people to buy into this.

#137
Booth

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Probably they will swim...



#138
AntarcticWildlife

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But that's objectively stupid. Do you know about your government's secret military projects? Or their classified communications? 

 

Oh please. Shepherd was a Spectre, not a run of the mill grunt. He had friends in very very high places. He potentially was screwing the Shadow Broker. Do you really think he would have heard nothing


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#139
Killroy

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Oh please. Shepherd was a Spectre, not a run of the mill grunt. He had friends in very very high places. He potentially was screwing the Shadow Broker. Do you really think he would have heard nothing?


Spectres are spies, there is no canon love interest, and Shepard is not trusted by much of anyone outside Anderson and Hackett.

#140
ZipZap2000

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Oh please. Shepherd was a Spectre, not a run of the mill grunt. He had friends in very very high places. He potentially was screwing the Shadow Broker. Do you really think he would have heard nothing?

This will pop up alot if they go with secret mission ark.


Just another thing resolved if you leave before or during ME2.

Genophage uncured (with potential for later cure.)

Quarians still around and in suits.

No Geth.

No Vorcha.

No Batarians.

At least one ME3 ending doesn't show Palaven.

Why didn't Shepard know? Because it happened while he was dead or in the Terminus systems.

Edit:Why doesn't Cerberus know through Udina? It already left.

#141
ZipZap2000

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Spectres are spies, there is no canon love interest, and Shepard is not trusted by much of anyone outside Anderson and Hackett.


The idea that the shadow broker didn't know is nuts.

#142
Killroy

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The idea that the shadow broker didn't know is nuts.


Why? The Shadow Broker relies on spies and bribery. If everything were capable of being penetrated by those means then no country or organization could ever keep any secrets.

#143
ZipZap2000

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Why? The Shadow Broker relies on spies and bribery. If everything were capable of being penetrated by those means then no country or organization could ever keep any secrets.


Exactly the point, the shadow broker has access to the highest levels of Asari and Turian govts remember? The Shadow Brokers been in power for decades and runs the most powerful and extensive info gathering network in the galaxy. It makes the Mossad look like chumps.

They blow up entire buildings and have Spectres on their payroll. The broker recorded the actual moment Jack was taken from her mother. Nothing happens without his knowledge.

#144
Killroy

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Exactly the point, the shadow broker has access to the highest levels of Asari and Turian govts remember? The Shadow Brokers been in power for decades and runs the most powerful and extensive info gathering network in the galaxy. It makes the Mossad look like chumps.

They blow up entire buildings and have Spectres on their payroll. The broker recorded the actual moment Jack was taken from her mother. Nothing happens without his knowledge.


But that's hyperbole. Even the games make it clear that the Shadow Broker's reputation of knowing everything is overblown. Cerberus has better access and intel than the Shadow Broker.

#145
ZipZap2000

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But that's hyperbole. Even the games make it clear that the Shadow Broker's reputation of knowing everything is overblown. Cerberus has better access and intel than the Shadow Broker.


Not that I agree but that raises another issue.

If we leave during the Reaper war how does Cerberus with an agent on the council not know?

#146
KamuiStorm

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Not that I agree but that raises another issue.
If we leave during the Reaper war how does Cerberus with an agent on the council not know?

Cerberus confirmed for andromeda.

#147
AntarcticWildlife

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But that's hyperbole. Even the games make it clear that the Shadow Broker's reputation of knowing everything is overblown. Cerberus has better access and intel than the Shadow Broker.

 

You are really overreaching with this theory. So Shadow Broker (Liara), The Council (Anderson/Udina), The Alliance Navy (Hackett) and Cerberus don't know that this thing is being built? In this theory, who does know about it? Who builds the thing? Who commissioned it? Who is manning it? 



#148
ZipZap2000

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You are really overreaching with this theory. So Shadow Broker (Liara), The Council (Anderson/Udina), The Alliance Navy (Hackett) and Cerberus don't know that this thing is being built? In this theory, who does know about it? Who builds the thing? Who commissioned it? Who is manning it?


They were really impressed with Conrad Verner and his dissertation on dark energy and xenotechnology, plus they heard he smashed a drug ring on Illium. Jenna got him in with the right people in C-Sec and the rest as they say is history.

#149
ZipZap2000

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Cerberus confirmed for andromeda.


In the following order.


*Kaidan hugs a bomb*

*Tali commits suicide*

*Legion drops dead*

*Miranda cant take it*

*Samara shoots herself*

*Shepard shoots Mordin*

*Shepard shoots Wrex*

*Shepard shoots Ashley*

*Javik walks out the Airlock*

*Shepard picks the blue ending*

*EDI crashes the Normandy*

#150
Sifr

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My theory is that the Ark project had been something that had been on the drawing boards ever since Shepard first came up to them with knowledge of the Reapers existence. The Ark was was constructed along with the Crucible, as a Plan B option should the Crucible fail to wipe out the Reapers as they hoped, but it's existence was kept quiet because unlike the Crucible that generated hope, the Ark would be seen as an admission of defeat.

 

Shepard not knowing makes sense in the context of what they were doing in ME3.

 

In ME3, Shepard was already in a high-pressure environment, with the fate of the galaxy being won or lost depending on their actions. They honestly did not need more things added to their plate, let alone know that the Ark was in place if they failed which might cause them to doubt that they were on a hopeless cause. Hackett flat out tells us our fervent belief in the cause is what is winning people over and securing their alliance with the other races, which is one of the reasons he picked us to be the Alliance's ambassador and pointman in the first place.

 

Furthermore, putting Shepard out there with the knowledge of the Ark would be a disaster should they succumb to Indoctrination, a possibility given the amount of exposure to Reapers and their technology in the past. The Alliance (or whoever builds it) probably don't want the knowledge of it's existence to be known outside of the project.

 

Whereas the Crucible's secrecy is something Shepard can be trusted with. Despite the Alliance taking steps to keep it's existence secret from the public, they would have to know that the Reapers are probably already aware of such a device's existence from the Prothean extinction (and we learn later, the previous Cycle's attempts to build it). Furthermore, despite knowing of the Project, the need for secrecy is why Hackett does not allow Shepard knowledge of where it's being constructed at any point in ME3, meaning they could not lead the Reapers to it even if they were compromised.

 

Whether the Illusive Man or Liara may have been aware of the Ark is questionable, but highly likely.

 

It would be very in-character for the Illusive Man keeping that information to himself as he did with many of his other plans, since he had no reason to want to flee the Reapers if he could control them. Even though he was indoctrinated, he doesn't seem to have leaked the information to the Reapers... and even if he had, their typical arrogance would have the Reapers chose to ignore it as a threat to their plans.

 

Liara knowing, but not choosing to inform Shepard probably was to avoid burdening them with doubt. She more than anyone would be aware that taking steps to ensure their civilisation continued if they failed was a prudent course of action, lest they share the fate of the Protheans and countless others. We even see that she had taken steps herself, such as with the time capsules, to try and make sure that something of their people would survive.