361 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

We are running in circles here, but ok. We are talking about dreadnought+ sized Ark ship.

Turians were able to build two dreadnought in two years without full economy mobilization.

Meanwhile asari, who are said to have strongest economy, built zero dreadnoughts at the moment of ME3 and refuse to fund Crucible until very end.

Salarians don't build any dreadnoughts as well and don't fund Crucible at all.

Council did recognize Sovereign as Reaper, that's a fact. Council races could build five Arks at the moment of ME3, yet you find more believable that Council was doing nothing for 3 years. That's the problem of your own headcanon, nothing more.

And the biggest dreadnought in the Council fleet, the Destiny Ascension, has a crew of about 10,000.  Even if it's just the four Council races + the krogan, that comes to about 2000 of each race.  Is that really enough to ensure a viable population, especially given the unknown dangers likely to be faced?  Not to mention the likelihood of other races being on board, further shrinking the numbers of each race.

 

So now, are we to believe that five Destiny Ascensions were built in secret in less than three years using tech for intergalactic technology which simply didn't exist in this cycle until it became necessary?  While nothing at all was done to, you know, protect the homeworlds, the colonies, and billions of people scattered throughout the galaxy, and instead decided to contract some Ark ships out to Vault-tec to maybe save a few tens of thousands? 

[Ahriman]

And the biggest dreadnought in the Council fleet, the Destiny Ascension, has a crew of about 10,000.  Even if it's just the four Council races + the krogan, that comes to about 2000 of each race.  Is that really enough to ensure a viable population, especially given the unknown dangers likely to be faced?  Not to mention the likelihood of other races being on board, further shrinking the numbers of each race.

That's a good number you brought up here. The crew. Since the purpose of Ark is not being dreadnought but rather deliver Ryder to Andromeda, I'll take modern largest cruiser as a base. Allure of the Seas

Spoiler

It hosts 2.5 thousands of crew and 5.5 thousands of passengers. So with base crew number being 10 000, we get 20 000 passengers. Pools and casinos we simply replace with colonization stuff and striptease bar for Pathfinder Initiative. Since Ark will be practically in maintance mode during the travel, we can move 4/5 of the crew to passenger seats, giving as 2 000 : 28 000 ratio. But wait, there is more, apparently these passengers prefer to live in cabins instead of being canned like fish. In smallest Allure's cabin for two (16 м²) we can place eight stasis pods, so we get 28 000 * 4 = 112 000 passengers. And the last thing, we have three years, remember? So we triple the size of Ark and get 6 000 : 336 000 people. Not that bad.

Short version. Collector Ship - roughly the same size as Destiny Ascension - "millions" of stasis pods. Bioware writers are terrible at number, but it's official so whatever.

 

 

So now, are we to believe that five Destiny Ascensions were built in secret in less than three years 

I'm not saying they build five ships, I just say what their economics is capable of. 

 

  While nothing at all was done to, you know, protect the homeworlds, the colonies, and billions of people scattered throughout the galaxy, and instead decided to contract some Ark ships out to Vault-tec to maybe save a few tens of thousands? 

Asari had Beacon. They knew how vast and powerful prothean empire was. And they knew how it ended. They didn't plan to win, simple as that.

 

 using tech for intergalactic technology which simply didn't exist in this cycle 

And here we go again. This technology exists - Reaper engine. Not speaking of trivial "we found it, but didn't want to share" Deus Ex devices.

[AntarcticWildlife]

That's a good number you brought up here. The crew. Since the purpose of Ark is not being dreadnought but rather deliver Ryder to Andromeda, I'll take modern largest cruiser as a base. Allure of the Seas

 

What a silly comparison. All the cruise ship needs to do is float and go forwards for a few hours. The proposed Ark will have to travel through space at a speed thousands of times faster than the speed of life in a voyage that will take centuries to complete. They would clearly not have the same or even remotely similar passenger capacity.

[pdusen]

To me, this argument seems increasingly pointless. On one side you have people who, for various reasons, want the new game to be set in the Milky Way instead of Andromeda, and therefore are motivated to try and poke a hole in any attempt at a plausible explanation for how the trip could be made, no matter how flimsy their arguments become in the process (and guys, your arguments are getting REALLY flimsy).

On the other, you have reasonable people entertaining the possibility that the trip can be made within the ME universe and speculating as to how that can be done based on what we know.

Those who don't want to go to Andromeda are clearly not going to budge on their position that such a trip is impossible, because they feel doing so would give the move legitimacy, and they prefer to believe that it's illegitimate.

Those entertaining the possibility are not going to be swayed by logic that is faulty and, sometimes, outright made-up.

I suggest we all let this subject rest and move on to some other issue to argue relentlessly about.

[themikefest]

I would say the most important thing the ship needs is defenses against any attacks from hostile species  in Andromeda and the trip to Andromeda

[Iakus]

What a silly comparison. All the cruise ship needs to do is float and go forwards for a few hours. The proposed Ark will have to travel through space at a speed thousands of times faster than the speed of life in a voyage that will take centuries to complete. They would clearly not have the same or even remotely similar passenger capacity.

Plus look at how bad things can get on a cruise ship if it loses power, the plumbing backs up, or if disease breaks out.

 

Now imagine if that happens literally out in the middle of nowhere.  Years, decades, centuries from anyone inclined to help.  Triple redundency on every nut and bolt may not be enough.

[Iakus]

 

And here we go again. This technology exists - Reaper engine. Not speaking of trivial "we found it, but didn't want to share" Deus Ex devices.

Even if that were true, the engine doesn't magically impart knowledge on how to build it or how it works just by touching it.

 

It would take years to figure out how it works, and likely more years constructing a not-blown-up version you can be sure won't infect your ship with a virus (Hi Reaper IFF!)

 

This is not just firing probes at a planet, mining palladium, and hitting "upgrade"

[Iakus]

I would say the most important thing the ship needs is defenses against any attacks from hostile species  in Andromeda and the trip to Andromeda

This ship would have to have all the amenities of a colony ship, a dreadnought, and a quarian liveship.  And have an operating lifespan of several centuries.  

[DarthSliver]

To me, this argument seems increasingly pointless. On one side you have people who, for various reasons, want the new game to be set in the Milky Way instead of Andromeda, and therefore are motivated to try and poke a hole in any attempt at a plausible explanation for how the trip could be made, no matter how flimsy their arguments become in the process (and guys, your arguments are getting REALLY flimsy).

On the other, you have reasonable people entertaining the possibility that the trip can be made within the ME universe and speculating as to how that can be done based on what we know.

Those who don't want to go to Andromeda are clearly not going to budge on their position that such a trip is impossible, because they feel doing so would give the move legitimacy, and they prefer to believe that it's illegitimate.

Those entertaining the possibility are not going to be swayed by logic that is faulty and, sometimes, outright made-up.

I suggest we all let this subject rest and move on to some other issue to argue relentlessly about.

 

Oh well you know the Mass Effect 3 endings is what requires us to leave to a new galaxy, otherwise the people finding solutions are like most people who see why we are going to Andromeda. Remember the endings that Mass Effect 3 mimic from a previous game that did it, the sequel didn't fair so well after the widely diversed endings in the game before it. I believe the game is called duex or some crap like that. 

 

All we can hope for its a logical explanation for getting to Andromeda before the ME3 endings occurred because we know this trip will most likely happen before then. 

[Killroy]

And the biggest dreadnought in the Council fleet, the Destiny Ascension, has a crew of about 10,000.  Even if it's just the four Council races + the krogan, that comes to about 2000 of each race.  Is that really enough to ensure a viable population, especially given the unknown dangers likely to be faced?  Not to mention the likelihood of other races being on board, further shrinking the numbers of each race.

Bringing along huge populations of each race is the least logical thing to do. 2,000 of each race is already too many considering all the supplies have to be brought along for the trip. Why bring along 100,000 members of each race instead of a few dozen and hundreds of thousands of embryos?
 

So now, are we to believe that five Destiny Ascensions were built in secret in less than three years using tech for intergalactic technology which simply didn't exist in this cycle until it became necessary?  While nothing at all was done to, you know, protect the homeworlds, the colonies, and billions of people scattered throughout the galaxy, and instead decided to contract some Ark ships out to Vault-tec to maybe save a few tens of thousands?

What exactly could have been done to "protect the homeworlds" from the Reapers?

[AntarcticWildlife]

To me, this argument seems increasingly pointless. On one side you have people who, for various reasons, want the new game to be set in the Milky Way instead of Andromeda, and therefore are motivated to try and poke a hole in any attempt at a plausible explanation for how the trip could be made, no matter how flimsy their arguments become in the process (and guys, your arguments are getting REALLY flimsy).

On the other, you have reasonable people entertaining the possibility that the trip can be made within the ME universe and speculating as to how that can be done based on what we know.

Those who don't want to go to Andromeda are clearly not going to budge on their position that such a trip is impossible, because they feel doing so would give the move legitimacy, and they prefer to believe that it's illegitimate.

Those entertaining the possibility are not going to be swayed by logic that is faulty and, sometimes, outright made-up.

I suggest we all let this subject rest and move on to some other issue to argue relentlessly about.

 

Can you perhaps link to one of these people? The only thing I see being argued about is those who are willing to accept far fetched plot devices and those who are not.

[Ahriman]

What a silly comparison. All the cruise ship needs to do is float and go forwards for a few hours. The proposed Ark will have to travel through space at a speed thousands of times faster than the speed of life in a voyage that will take centuries to complete. They would clearly not have the same or even remotely similar passenger capacity.

Not so much, considering Destiny Ascension has 4 times bigger crew while being twice the size.

[Killroy]

Can you perhaps link to one of these people? The only thing I see being argued about is those who are willing to accept far fetched plot devices and those who are not.

If you're unwilling to accept any far-fetched plot devices then what the hell are you doing Mass Effect games?

[AntarcticWildlife]

Not so much, considering Destiny Ascension has 4 times bigger crew while being twice the size.

The DA is far bigger than twice the size. It took a civilian 6 hours to see a 10th of the ship. That boat is tiny in comparison. 

[Drone223]

Demonstrably false. The Reapers were on Plan C when they invaded from dark space.

The galaxy didn't realized the threat of the reaper's posed until it was too late when Earth, Palaven, Khar'shan and the most of the terminus systems were quickly under reaper occupation. So the galaxy was still pretty much caught by surprise since no one in the galaxy was ready for them.

 

 

And your insistence that the entire galaxy's economy was totally drained by the Crucible is just as baseless and silly as the first time you said it. "Disregarding the costs" of the project has no implications other than the cost of the project being disregarded in the the hope that it pays off.

 

The crucible is the largest construction project in the galactic history. The fact that most if not all resources from all across the galaxy are bring poured into gives a good idea on the toll its taking on the economy.

[Dantriges]

A cruise ship as a comparison?

They resupply constantly and have a supporting infrastructure. They don´t need to carry stuff for every possible kind of maintenance or reapair, because they do that at the port facilities.

[AntarcticWildlife]

A cruise ship as a comparison?

They resupply constantly and have a supporting infrastructure. They don´t need to carry stuff for every possible kind of maintenance or reapair, because they do that at the port facilities.

 

Not forgetting the means of supporting food and water for all species aboard, which would almost require a ship in itself if its going to be similar size of the DA.

[Killroy]

The galaxy didn't realized the threat of the reaper's posed until it was too late when Earth, Palaven, Khar'shan and the most of the terminus systems were quickly under reaper occupation. So the galaxy was still pretty much caught by surprise since no one in the galaxy was ready for them.

Nothing could have been done to effectively prepare. That's the entire point of controlling how the cycles evolve technologically. But between what the Protheans did after their empire fell and what Shepard and crew did our cycle was more prepared than any before it. That's a fact. 
 

The crucible is the largest construction project in the galactic history. The fact that most if not all resources from all across the galaxy are bring poured into gives a good idea on the toll its taking on the economy.

You keep making these things up and pretending they're true. Largest project in the galaxy ever? Show me the proof of that. Most or all of the galaxy's resources going to the Crucible? Demonstrably false. The Salarians weren't pitching in at all and Cerberus had more resources than God.

 

You need to stop. Your arguments are wrong and, quite frankly, stupid.

[AntarcticWildlife]

You need to stop. Your arguments are wrong and, quite frankly, stupid.

 

And so do you. You are being rude and hostile where there really is no need to be. Its written into the lore that the Crucibles cost was staggering and it drew resources from across the galaxy. There is deliberate emphasis on the economic cost and that it was ignored due to a matter of survival.  

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

People on the internet are being rude and hostile in an argument?

What has this world come to?

[ZipZap2000]

People on the internet are being rude and hostile in an argument?

What has this world come to?

I demand a new ending to real life.

[SlottsMachine]

If you're unwilling to accept any far-fetched plot devices then what the hell are you doing Mass Effect games?

 

Haha. Yeah. Though I expect the how of how we get to Andromeda to be Lazarus Project bad, one bad plot point isn't going to make or break the story. The rest of the game will decide that. 

[Drone223]

Nothing could have been done to effectively prepare. That's the entire point of controlling how the cycles evolve technologically. But between what the Protheans did after their empire fell and what Shepard and crew did our cycle was more prepared than any before it. That's a fact. 
 

Some preparation is better than no preparation, the galaxy had about three years to prepare for the reaper's and ME2/3 made it clear they chose to do nothing. More could've been saved if some form of preparation was done instead of burring the heads in the sand or starting tangential conflicts.

 

 

You keep making these things up and pretending they're true. Largest project in the galaxy ever? Show me the proof of that. Most or all of the galaxy's resources going to the Crucible? Demonstrably false. The Salarians weren't pitching in at all and Cerberus had more resources than God.

 

You need to stop. Your arguments are wrong and, quite frankly, stupid.

 

Most if not all the species are contributing to the galaxy and the crucible itself needs to be connected to the citadel in order to work, that's proof enough that the crucible is largest project in the galaxy.

 

Also the only reason why Cerberus has so many resources was to their inconsistent writing in the series.

[Killroy]

And so do you. You are being rude and hostile where there really is no need to be. Its written into the lore that the Crucibles cost was staggering and it drew resources from across the galaxy. There is deliberate emphasis on the economic cost and that it was ignored due to a matter of survival.  

 

Project: Lazarus.

Massive endeavor, making miracles. Resources from all over the galaxy required. Staggering costs, ignored in hopes of success. 

 

Did Cerberus' miracle bankrupt the galaxy? The expense and scope of Shepard's resurrection is harped on much more than the Crucible's. 

[Xerxes52]

Wormholes might work as a handwave in order to travel to Andromeda. Or Space Magic, that might happen as well.

 

As for the ship itself, it would probably be cheaper to make a smaller self-replicating seeder ship run by an AI that can make other automated vessels (probes and recon vessels, and "Berserker" warships) from asteroids and rocky planets. Carrying the genetic data of humans, asari, turians, etc. it would try to locate a world to terraform, or possibly wipe out a less advanced native species with said warships and colonize their planet. It would then mass produce and educate thousands or millions of people to live on the new planet and begin colonizing Andromeda.