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Quarians Questionable Decisions


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#1
AlanSmith2098

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I just picked up the trilogy last week and have been playing through the games and I just don't understand why the Quarians went to war with the Geth in the third game? The Geth made it clear through Legion (their liason to the rest of the galaxy) that they don't hold any ill will towards the Quarians for their attempted Genocide, do not live on the Quarian homeworld, and would be glad to reunite and peacefully coexist with the Quarians. 

 

Why would the Quarians chose to start a needless war when the Reapers are wiping out the galaxy around them? Am I missing some important plot detail here? 



#2
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Not that I give much credence to the Quarian-Geth conflict in ME3 but I think it's because the Quarians never really thought that dialogue was an option with the Geth. I suppose it's hard to contemplate dialogue with a people that nearly genocided your race and drove you away (yes, yes, I know the Geth story and am actually quite a fan of them as well).



#3
Mordokai

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Paging QMR...

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll just sit back with this bucket of popcorn.


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#4
aoibhealfae

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In Mass Effect Ascension, there's a clearer view on the condition of Migrant Fleet. Imagine you're among millions of refugee with no place to find any asylum. The universe treat you like you're some scavenging rats and basically laughing at you for being thrown out from your home and most of your people are stuck in a victorian-era space ships that have the tendency to breakdown every few hours. Their biology made it impossible to successfully colonize any planet and they've already had people scouring through the furthest reach of the galaxy to find suitable planet for them but failed.. 

Like the Krogans and the genophage, the Quarians are dying. By their estimates, the Migrant Fleet barely have several decades left to survive. The only feasible way for them to survive was to retake their home. That's why they're desperate enough even if they know its suicidal. Better die fighting the monsters they made, I guess.


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#5
NeroonWilliams

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I just picked up the trilogy last week and have been playing through the games and I just don't understand why the Quarians went to war with the Geth in the third game? The Geth made it clear through Legion (their liason to the rest of the galaxy) that they don't hold any ill will towards the Quarians for their attempted Genocide, do not live on the Quarian homeworld, and would be glad to reunite and peacefully coexist with the Quarians. 

 

Why would the Quarians chose to start a needless war when the Reapers are wiping out the galaxy around them? Am I missing some important plot detail here? 

Speaking to some of your points:

First, Legion may have made its POV clear to Shepard (and possibly Tali), this info is only coming to the Migrant Fleet via second and third hand accounts, and the majority of the Quarians view of history says that the Geth are overtly hostile to Quarians.

Second, while the Heretics have taken up residence in a different system, the Geth proper are still on Rannoch.

Third, others have already stated the state of the Migrant Fleet at the start of ME3.

 

There is a major difference between character knowledge and player knowledge.  Is the war a bad idea?  As players we absolutely know that it is.  From the point of view of the vast majority of the Quarians, going to war with the Geth is only a matter of time.



#6
Mlady

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I think a lot of things Shepard was forced to do was poor timing for an oncoming war. Forcing him/her to cure the Genophage when the Krogan could easily be wiped out by the Reapers, trying to end a war with the Quarians and Geth. And for what? What if they failed? I feel as if all that time being forced to keep the peace between everyone was time wasted preparing for the final fight.

 

As for why they went to war, it was planned since ME2, but despite Shepard's efforts to convince them not to, they still wanted to reclaim their homeworld, and many Quarian were raised to believe the Geth were evil. Tali even says that Geth should have the intelligence of a Varren when Legion first speaks in ME2, so she was brought up believing they were ruthless enemies. Only her and Shepard knew the truth near the end, but the rest of the Fleet still saw them as a long-time enemy that must be destroyed and even though the Reapers were coming, the war had already started before they arrived. Tali expalins how she tried to stop them and tell Legion about it too, but no one listened.



#7
Quarian Master Race

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Paging QMR...

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll just sit back with this bucket of popcorn.

you didn't actually page me, tho :'(. Nonetheless, I shall provide the shitpost to end all shitposts to make sure this new fan ends up playing for glorious Team Quarian, or at least has a more informed, less biased view of the full narrative.

First off OP, your post has some incorrect and rather lofty assumptions.

1) Legion did not make any of that clear to anyone, let alone the quarians. It doesn't go to a legitimate authority like the Admiralty Board (you can take it on Tali's mission, but it just sits there trolling and doesn't make any attempt to establish diplomatic connections or share pertinent information with them), nor the Council (although they probably would have found a way to be useless still, considering they think it's a simple mech if you take it to the meeting with them) nor even an official representative of the Alliance government.The only people it interacts with in its "Liason" role are Shep & Co. (i.e. a bunch of Cerberus affiliated terrorists, among them possibly one random quarian). For all the quarians and the rest of the galaxy at large know, the geth are those things that revolved when the quarians benignly tried to turn them off because they weren't working properly, then genocided and ethnically cleansed their species until 99.5% of them (1 million of 2 billion survived the genocide according to Ascension) were slaughtered and the survivors forced to flee their Homeworld and colonies.

Legion is also hardly a reliable source. It objectively lies and engages in misinformation on multiple occasions (unprovokedly stealing Tali's omnitool data, claiming it is not allied with the Reapers/does not posses their code upgrades, transferring the geth programs from the Fighter Squadrons server into Prime platforms that then ambush the group, rather than deleting them). Your assertion of it bearing no "ill will" also does not mesh with it threatening the quarians with revenge and violence on at least one occasion. You should no more trust it's word on the geth-quarian conflict as impartial than you should Tali's, or than you would Wrex's on the Genophage. It has a vested interest in persuading you to its side like everyone else.
https://www.youtube....61p8KJI#t=3m15s
^"no Ill will"

2) The quarians "did not start a needless war when the Reapers are wiping out the galaxy", the war started before that. By your first visit to the Citadel hours after Earth is attacked, there is a Specter Terminal entry waiting for you that states the quarians have already mobilized for conflict and headed for the veil. The war then goes on for 17 days (according to Admiral Han'Gerrel) with the quarians easily demolishing the geth and driving them from all 4 quarian pre-war systems until only the geth on and over Rannoch remain. Then the Reapers show up in the Perseus Veil, get involved on the side of the geth and halt the quarians via neturalizing their jamming weapon. I suppose someone else could have informed the quarians that the Reapers had arrived in the middle of their campaign, but no one did until the Reapers had already used the upgraded geth to trap the Migrant Fleet over Rannoch. The quarians are galactic pariahs that most of the other species hate, and hardly communicate with except to tell them to stay out of their space, so it makes sense there was no pertinent communication in time.

-Some other points

The war was in no way "needless". First off, there are the practical considerations to the quarians' utility to the war effort. As the Fleet sits, it's cargo holds are full of what are in essence shantytowns packed with quarian civilians. If it tried to go to war without somewhere relatively safe to offload them and the agricultural/manufacturing equipment to sustain them, not only would the quarian species be risking extinction at the hands of the Reapers (who are a far greater threat than the geth) if they lost even 1 Liveship (all 3 of which are required to sustain the population), you wouldn't be able to use the ships for anything except shooting at the Reapers anyway. The primary reason Hackett sends you to get the quarians is logistical (i.e. the massive number of ships means you can ferry lots of troops and supplies with them, an example being the horde of krogan troops, who have no ships to reach the battlefronts), which you can't do with millions of quarian noncombatants already taking up that space. Without offloading the civvies, the quarians can't really make themselves all that useful to the war effort. Han'Gerrel states as much in ME2.

Tali: "We might need the Fleet to fight the Reapers, Admiral"
Gerrel: "Then we need a world to shelter our noncombatants while we do it."

However, it can't just be any world. The Council in the past has displayed outright hostility toward the quarians when they have tried to establish colonies on even barely habitable worlds.
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ekuna
so they aren't going to lend a hand. Meanwhile as mentioned before, the geth have made no attempts to negotiate or even communicate with the quarians for 3 centuries. Nevermind that, the peace envoys that were sent by the Council were blown out of the sky according to Revelation so what would be the point in the quarians trying to do the same? For all they know, they'd just be needlessly sending people to their death and broadcasting their intentions of regaining their planets, giving the geth time to prepare for their offensive, leading to more deaths and a longer campaign before they can start helping against the Reapers. Considering that the quarians have developed a way to easily defeat the geth with almost no casualties (that the Reapers would help the geth is not known at the time of the invasion), they'd be stupid to not sieze the opportunity they've been given.

Outside of the scope of the war, the quarians need somewhere to settle soon, because their mode of living is unsustainable. Many of their old ships are falling apart and becoming irreperable, and they are even beginning to have trouble breeding due to low birthrates (they can't sustain more than 17 million people living on the ships) leading to genetic problems (this is part of the reason for the Pilgrimage, to slow the onset of health problems due to inbreeding by making sure individuals mate outside their birth ship). An estimate in the novel Ascension gives them 90 years to extinction as is. They have been looking for suitable colony worlds for quite some time, sending out ships like the Cyniad to scout for habitable planets, but their low tolerance biology makes finding a suitable world far more difficult, and even if they do they have the hostile Council (who claims vast amounts of the galaxy) to contend with, limiting the number of candidates even further. They evolved to work on Rannoch, and the difference in re-adapting to its environment vs even a tolerable colony world is described as "the difference between 60 and 600 years". By contrast, the geth have no need for the planet at all. They live in space and draw resources from asteroids. Legion says that they only maintain control of these planets out of some sort of sense of respect toward the memory of the quarians they killed, along with an expectation that they'll return but it only elucidates this to Shepard. If if we assume its word to be true, why does it do this? Shepard isn't a quarian so why should s/he care? For all the quarians know, the geth are just squatting on the Homeworld they forcibly annexed out of further spite to them and practically goading them to try and take it back, or worse (given that the only geth reperesentatives outside the Veil in 3 centuries have been Reaper allies) plotting something far more insidious. Daro'Xen's weapon gives them the first means in over 10 generations to eliminate this potential threat, the means to give their children a future and a half decent standard of living. They'd have to be daft not to take it.

Finally there are other, more subjective reasons, like why should the quarians simply sit around wetting their suits, or going and begging the geth to throw them a bone? That planet is theirs. They were there first, and the geth forcibly annexed it. They have more than every right to do the same right back if they have the means, especially considering that the geth could give up the planet at literally no loss and go live on some asteroids in a remote part of the galaxy as mentioned. That they don't do this (i.e. exactly the same thing the quarians did when facing defeat in the Morning War) when they realize the quarians have their number, and would rather ally with the Reapers and try to destroy every organic in the galaxy than give up Rannoch, is just nonsensical. In fact, why did the geth not make any preparations for the Reaper war in the first place? The quarians spend the 6 months between ME2 and 3 arming every single one of their ships for combat. The geth spend it building a functionally useless (for combat) Dyson Sphere to hide in.

While we're at it, why do we assume the geth are even worthy of any moral consideration at all? The brightest AI scientists of the ME universe, Council Law, and the general public, all seem convinced that they're just highly advanced machines, not lifeforms at all. Only an Alliance Soldier who doesn't even have a college education (Shep) can (but isn't required to) express otherwise. Frankly, I don't see the evidence for them being anything more than malfunctioning toasters in desperate need of a commercial recall. "Genocide" is a laughable term for trying to unplug your computer after it freezes up and the power button ceases to work. If you take this line of reasoning (as pretty much everyone else in universe seems to), the conflict is even more simple. There are a few people in universe who criticize the quarian timing of the invasion close to the Reaper one (mostly those ignorant of the knowledge the player is given), but virtually everyone is relieved if they finally destroy the geth threat.

Try playing through the games again while taking the less traveled Renegade (i.e. supporting the quarians instead of the geth) path in relation to the conflict (Eliminate the Heretics or Sell Legion to Cerberus, pick dialouge that supports the war etc.). The quarians get a much fairer treatment in this regard. Also read Revelation and Ascenscion as they both provide exposition on the conflict that the games (particularly ME3, which is blatantly one sided) sorely lack. I hear these sorts of critcisms all the time (along with similar ones of the Salarians/Turians in relation to the Genophage) and it is usually by people who are new to the series and haven't actually gotten to hear all the arguments in question that multiple playthroughs and a more in depth following of the lore provide.
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#8
LineHolder

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Admiral, for all your pretensions of controlling the Geth, you couldn't even control your own Admiralty Board.

 

j/k. That is a pretty good reply. Although I doubt how the Quarians could be facing extinction in 90 years if they grew from 1 million to 17 million in 300 years.



#9
Quarian Master Race

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Admiral, for all your pretensions of controlling the Geth, you couldn't even control your own Admiralty Board.

 

j/k. That is a pretty good reply. Although I doubt how the Quarians could be facing extinction in 90 years if they grew from 1 million to 17 million in 300 years.

I had complete control of the Board. They went to war because I developed the weapon that would enable us to reclaim our homeworld from the toasters and reacquire our technology (deactivated or not), and told them to use it. Gerrel can have all the fun he wants breaking them, but I'm going to rebuild them, and they're going to work properly this time. Koris, Raan and Rael'Zorah's little princess can sit there wetting their suits all they want while I singlehandedly give the quarian species the ability to claim its birthright with the largest synthetic army in the galaxy, once the Reapers are dealt with, obviously.

The issue wasn't entirely one of genetic viability. Asenscion states the Migrant Fleet was losing ships faster than it could build or acquire new ones, and the problem was becoming more acute. A reduction in population due to decreased number of ships (thus living space) was going to become necessary, which along with the increased vulnerability to pirates/slavers would necessitate even more building of primarily new military vessels, which would further stifle quarian efforts to build more living ships in a vicious cycle. 


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#10
The Real Pearl #2

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Alansmith is definitely an alt trying to bait QMR

LOL



#11
Jukaga

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My canon had the Geth some call Legion in a Cerberus lab, so the Quarians and greater galaxy were unaware about the Geth/Heretic divide. It makes for a smoother, more consistent Rannoch arc IMO, especially considering it doesn't even come up again other than some war assets and a one liner from Legion.


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#12
Quarian Master Race

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Alansmith is definitely an alt trying to bait QMR
LOL


Wouldn't blame them. I'm awesome and make some of the most legit posts on this site.
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#13
Geth Supremacy

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It is funny, but when you take a stance you have to keep it no matter what.  That book up there is respectable.  It's always good to balance wit and serious posts.  If you didn't suck at ME3MP you would be really special.  Maybe the poor character choice doesn't help like the Marksman, but good players can make any kit sing.  Maybe next time. :lol:

 

QMR in one word? Dedicated.

 

FYI I'm not OP.


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#14
The Real Pearl #2

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Wouldn't blame them. I'm awesome and make some of the most legit posts on this site.

Stretch that e-peen some more buckethead. YEASS


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#15
Olivia Wilde

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forget multiplayer

qoapj4ac.gif

story discussions are where to go for must see TV



#16
LineHolder

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The issue wasn't entirely one of genetic viability. Asenscion states the Migrant Fleet was losing ships faster than it could build or acquire new ones, and the problem was becoming more acute. A reduction in population due to decreased number of ships (thus living space) was going to become necessary, which along with the increased vulnerability to pirates/slavers would necessitate even more building of primarily new military vessels, which would further stifle quarian efforts to build more living ships in a vicious cycle. 

 

 

Nah, if you can handle the Geth, you can handle a few Batarian scum here and there. I have confidence in the Quarians' ability to preserve their ships and endure.

 

On a side note, as much as I love the Geth, if I were to take them even semi-seriously in ME3 (because **** ME3-Geth) and if I didn't have the choice to make peace, I'd side with the Quarians. You can thank Rael'Zorah's little princess for that.

 

Shepard is the God of Rannoch in ME3. His word is law.

 



#17
CrimsonN7

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you didn't actually page me, tho :'(. Nonetheless, I shall provide the shitpost to end all shitposts to make sure this new fan ends up playing for glorious Team Quarian, or at least has a more informed, less biased view of the full narrative.
First off OP, your post has some incorrect and rather lofty assumptions.
1) Legion did not make any of that clear to anyone, let alone the quarians. It doesn't go to a legitimate authority like the Admiralty Board (you can take it on Tali's mission, but it just sits there trolling and doesn't make any attempt to establish diplomatic connections or share pertinent information with them), nor the Council (although they probably would have found a way to be useless still, considering they think it's a simple mech if you take it to the meeting with them) nor even an official representative of the Alliance government.The only people it interacts with in its "Liason" role are Shep & Co. (i.e. a bunch of Cerberus affiliated terrorists, among them possibly one random quarian). For all the quarians and the rest of the galaxy at large know, the geth are those things that revolved when the quarians benignly tried to turn them off because they weren't working properly, then genocided and ethnically cleansed their species until 99.5% of them (1 million of 2 billion survived the genocide according to Ascension) were slaughtered and the survivors forced to flee their Homeworld and colonies.
Legion is also hardly a reliable source. It objectively lies and engages in misinformation on multiple occasions (unprovokedly stealing Tali's omnitool data, claiming it is not allied with the Reapers/does not posses their code upgrades, transferring the geth programs from the Fighter Squadrons server into Prime platforms that then ambush the group, rather than deleting them). Your assertion of it bearing no "ill will" also does not mesh with it threatening the quarians with revenge and violence on at least one occasion. You should no more trust it's word on the geth-quarian conflict as impartial than you should Tali's, or than you would Wrex's on the Genophage. It has a vested interest in persuading you to its side like everyone else.https://www.youtube....61p8KJI#t=3m15s
^"no Ill will"
2) The quarians "did not start a needless war when the Reapers are wiping out the galaxy", the war started before that. By your first visit to the Citadel hours after Earth is attacked, there is a Specter Terminal entry waiting for you that states the quarians have already mobilized for conflict and headed for the veil. The war then goes on for 17 days (according to Admiral Han'Gerrel) with the quarians easily demolishing the geth and driving them from all 4 quarian pre-war systems until only the geth on and over Rannoch remain. Then the Reapers show up in the Perseus Veil, get involved on the side of the geth and halt the quarians via neturalizing their jamming weapon. I suppose someone else could have informed the quarians that the Reapers had arrived in the middle of their campaign, but no one did until the Reapers had already used the upgraded geth to trap the Migrant Fleet over Rannoch. The quarians are galactic pariahs that most of the other species hate, and hardly communicate with except to tell them to stay out of their space, so it makes sense there was no pertinent communication in time.
-Some other points
The war was in no way "needless". First off, there are the practical considerations to the quarians' utility to the war effort. As the Fleet sits, it's cargo holds are full of what are in essence shantytowns packed with quarian civilians. If it tried to go to war without somewhere relatively safe to offload them and the agricultural/manufacturing equipment to sustain them, not only would the quarian species be risking extinction at the hands of the Reapers (who are a far greater threat than the geth) if they lost even 1 Liveship (all 3 of which are required to sustain the population), you wouldn't be able to use the ships for anything except shooting at the Reapers anyway. The primary reason Hackett sends you to get the quarians is logistical (i.e. the massive number of ships means you can ferry lots of troops and supplies with them, an example being the horde of krogan troops, who have no ships to reach the battlefronts), which you can't do with millions of quarian noncombatants already taking up that space. Without offloading the civvies, the quarians can't really make themselves all that useful to the war effort. Han'Gerrel states as much in ME2.
Tali: "We might need the Fleet to fight the Reapers, Admiral"
Gerrel: "Then we need a world to shelter our noncombatants while we do it."
However, it can't just be any world. The Council in the past has displayed outright hostility toward the quarians when they have tried to establish colonies on even barely habitable worlds.http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ekuna
so they aren't going to lend a hand. Meanwhile as mentioned before, the geth have made no attempts to negotiate or even communicate with the quarians for 3 centuries. Nevermind that, the peace envoys that were sent by the Council were blown out of the sky according to Revelation so what would be the point in the quarians trying to do the same? For all they know, they'd just be needlessly sending people to their death and broadcasting their intentions of regaining their planets, giving the geth time to prepare for their offensive, leading to more deaths and a longer campaign before they can start helping against the Reapers. Considering that the quarians have developed a way to easily defeat the geth with almost no casualties (that the Reapers would help the geth is not known at the time of the invasion), they'd be stupid to not sieze the opportunity they've been given.
Outside of the scope of the war, the quarians need somewhere to settle soon, because their mode of living is unsustainable. Many of their old ships are falling apart and becoming irreperable, and they are even beginning to have trouble breeding due to low birthrates (they can't sustain more than 17 million people living on the ships) leading to genetic problems (this is part of the reason for the Pilgrimage, to slow the onset of health problems due to inbreeding by making sure individuals mate outside their birth ship). An estimate in the novel Ascension gives them 90 years to extinction as is. They have been looking for suitable colony worlds for quite some time, sending out ships like the Cyniad to scout for habitable planets, but their low tolerance biology makes finding a suitable world far more difficult, and even if they do they have the hostile Council (who claims vast amounts of the galaxy) to contend with, limiting the number of candidates even further. They evolved to work on Rannoch, and the difference in re-adapting to its environment vs even a tolerable colony world is described as "the difference between 60 and 600 years". By contrast, the geth have no need for the planet at all. They live in space and draw resources from asteroids. Legion says that they only maintain control of these planets out of some sort of sense of respect toward the memory of the quarians they killed, along with an expectation that they'll return but it only elucidates this to Shepard. If if we assume its word to be true, why does it do this? Shepard isn't a quarian so why should s/he care? For all the quarians know, the geth are just squatting on the Homeworld they forcibly annexed out of further spite to them and practically goading them to try and take it back, or worse (given that the only geth reperesentatives outside the Veil in 3 centuries have been Reaper allies) plotting something far more insidious. Daro'Xen's weapon gives them the first means in over 10 generations to eliminate this potential threat, the means to give their children a future and a half decent standard of living. They'd have to be daft not to take it.
Finally there are other, more subjective reasons, like why should the quarians simply sit around wetting their suits, or going and begging the geth to throw them a bone? That planet is theirs. They were there first, and the geth forcibly annexed it. They have more than every right to do the same right back if they have the means, especially considering that the geth could give up the planet at literally no loss and go live on some asteroids in a remote part of the galaxy as mentioned. That they don't do this (i.e. exactly the same thing the quarians did when facing defeat in the Morning War) when they realize the quarians have their number, and would rather ally with the Reapers and try to destroy every organic in the galaxy than give up Rannoch, is just nonsensical. In fact, why did the geth not make any preparations for the Reaper war in the first place? The quarians spend the 6 months between ME2 and 3 arming every single one of their ships for combat. The geth spend it building a functionally useless (for combat) Dyson Sphere to hide in.
While we're at it, why do we assume the geth are even worthy of any moral consideration at all? The brightest AI scientists of the ME universe, Council Law, and the general public, all seem convinced that they're just highly advanced machines, not lifeforms at all. Only an Alliance Soldier who doesn't even have a college education (Shep) can (but isn't required to) express otherwise. Frankly, I don't see the evidence for them being anything more than malfunctioning toasters in desperate need of a commercial recall. "Genocide" is a laughable term for trying to unplug your computer after it freezes up and the power button ceases to work. If you take this line of reasoning (as pretty much everyone else in universe seems to), the conflict is even more simple. There are a few people in universe who criticize the quarian timing of the invasion close to the Reaper one (mostly those ignorant of the knowledge the player is given), but virtually everyone is relieved if they finally destroy the geth threat.
Try playing through the games again while taking the less traveled Renegade (i.e. supporting the quarians instead of the geth) path in relation to the conflict (Eliminate the Heretics or Sell Legion to Cerberus, pick dialouge that supports the war etc.). The quarians get a much fairer treatment in this regard. Also read Revelation and Ascenscion as they both provide exposition on the conflict that the games (particularly ME3, which is blatantly one sided) sorely lack. I hear these sorts of critcisms all the time (along with similar ones of the Salarians/Turians in relation to the Genophage) and it is usually by people who are new to the series and haven't actually gotten to hear all the arguments in question that multiple playthroughs and a more in depth following of the lore provide.


Damn sis.

Interesting post tho. Jeez it's been a long time since I played the third game but if I recall my favourite outcome in regards to the geth/quarian cofuffal was destroy the heretics in me2, better safe than sorry. Turned out to be right. Told the quarians at Tali's trial best of luck in the war u guise and told Tali fight for your home world sis I'll help if needed. Yelled at the admiral board, good times.

Roll on me3, made the quarians and geth finally play nice, mainly because I wanted both resources for the final push, still don't fully trust the geth in the overall scheme of things, not the biggest fan of quarians either but I'd pick them over the geth. Chose destroy, having both fleets but if I recall this kills the geth and edi. I can live with this and I'm not worried about the geth possibly going rogue in future generations. Legion was cool tho, sorry bro sorta.

#18
Vortex13

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It's funny that the overall narrative views the general treatment of the galaxy at large towards the Quarians as (more or less) acceptable, but views the treatment of the Krogan as the greatest evil to have ever plagued the face of the Milky Way. 

 

 

 

The Krogan, after instigating a war of aggression on the galaxy, and causing widespread devastation; including the destruction of three garden worlds belonging to a species that wasn't even a part of the government that they had a grievance with; engage in a brutal decades long war with the rest of the galaxy. Over the course of this bloody campaign the Krogan cause the deaths of countless thousands in their unprovoked war, and the treatment of their victims aren't pretty; there are mentions of how the Krogan would actually kill and eat other sentient species, like the Salarians, for sport.

 

Still, after all of that, the Krogan regularly receive shipments of food and supplies from the Turians. Meanwhile the Salarians work to build and maintain a facility that allows the Krogan home world to be even remotely livable. Even the Genophage; the Krogan's "punishment" is not that bad, seeing as how it isn't even a sterility plague, all it does is lower viable birthrate to pre-idustiral levels. The Krogan can still have babies and are in no danger of going extinct. Modern Krogan can freely go to other planets and are generally welcome among mercenary bands and pirate/gang crews. They even are welcome in other less stereotypical ways as well; you don't see anyone giving Char grief for being a Krogan poet.  

 

 

 

The Quarians on the other hand, have a crisis arise solely on their worlds, one that (mostly) targets them mind you, and despite going to the galactic government and asking for help, the Quarians are instead ejected from the Council, refused military aid or even relief efforts, and slammed with sanctions and embargoes. Then, once this crisis has completely overwhelmed them and forced the Quarians to evacuate their home world or face actual extinction, they are still treated with disdain and distrust by the galaxy at large. This treatment is extended to include flat refusals for any planets that could serve as a new colony, forcing the Quarians to remain aboard their Migrant Fleet.

 

Modern Quarians are viewed with suspicion by the galaxy, and they are commonly harassed when traveling on their own. 

 

 

 

 

So brutally murdering (and eating) other members of galactic society, as well as causing untold destruction and chaos over the course of several decades = General acceptance and active aid by said members of galactic society. While, asking for aid involving an isolated catastrophe, effecting only specific worlds = all round distrust and second class citizenship. Sounds fair.

 

 

I guess it's the Quarian's fault for not being around to fight some scary space bugs. Space bugs who arguably caused less damage to the galaxy as a whole than the Krogan did.   <_<


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#19
Barquiel

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So brutally murdering (and eating) other members of galactic society, as well as causing untold destruction and chaos over the course of several decades = General acceptance and active aid by said members of galactic society. While, asking for aid involving an isolated catastrophe, effecting only specific worlds = all round distrust and second class citizenship. Sounds fair.

 

 

I guess it's the Quarian's fault for not being around to fight some scary space bugs. Space bugs who arguably caused less damage to the galaxy as a whole than the Krogan did.   <_<

 

Quarian hate today isn't about the geth, that's just something they did in their past that started it. The problem generated by the quarian fleet is that 50,000 ships will suddenly show up in your system and tie up the relay for a week as they all pass. Traffic patterns go out the window. Shipping lanes are disrupted. They screw up the local economy by stealing jobs by hiring themselves out for cheap. And if you're REALLY lucky, the quarians will dump their trash...and their criminals in your system as exiles. They are also considered scavengers, they strip-mine the systems they pass through and we know a sizable amount of quarian resources are acquired as "gifts" given to dissuade them from staying in one area of space for extended periods. On top of that, there's the perception that they will steal anything that's not nailed down.


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#20
Quarian Master Race

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It is funny, but when you take a stance you have to keep it no matter what.  That book up there is respectable.  It's always good to balance wit and serious posts.  If you didn't suck at ME3MP you would be really special.  Maybe the poor character choice doesn't help like the Marksman, but good players can make any kit sing.  Maybe next time. :lol:

 

QMR in one word? Dedicated.

 

FYI I'm not OP.

yAyYZtH.gif?noredirect

1v1 me thunderdome babby. Bring your best toaster. I'll bring Quarksman to defend his honour. You'll get rekt m8.

 

Damn sis.

That was all off the top of my head too, because I'm a turbonerd and quite clearly have no life outside of reading everything about ME that has quarians in it.

I even read Deception, but I've been trying to scrub it from memory because even quarians couldn't save it from being the worst thing ever invented.

Rest of your post is pretty good too.

 

 

 

Quarian hate today isn't about the geth, that's just something they did in their past that started it. The problem generated by the quarian fleet is that 50,000 ships will suddenly show up in your system and tie up the relay for a week as they all pass. Traffic patterns go out the window. Shipping lanes are disrupted. They screw up the local economy by stealing jobs by hiring themselves out for cheap. And if you're REALLY lucky, the quarians will dump their trash...and their criminals in your system as exiles. They are also considered scavengers, they strip-mine the systems they pass through and we know a sizable amount of quarian resources are acquired as "gifts" given to dissuade them from staying in one area of space for extended periods. On top of that, there's the perception that they will steal anything that's not nailed down.

^^Campaign slogan of Trump 2182. Make Council Space great again.

Perhaps if the quarians weren't bombed off of even second tier habitable planets like Ekuna that they tried to settle on, none of these minor annoyances would be an issue? We could even build a wall around them then and probably get them to pay for it!

I particularly love the troll logic about labour that is both more highly skilled and lower cost somehow "screwing up local economies", considering that in the reality we live in it objectively does the opposite. The other species are benefiting massively from this practice, that before you consider that such species quietly endorse such lovely practices as sentient slavery to leech off of quarian contributions to their society even further, justifying it with blatant racism.

Bad writing theory wins again. Biower doesn't do nuance. Quarians are a combination of space Mexicans and space Jews.


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#21
CrimsonN7

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That was all off the top of my head too, because I'm a turbonerd and quite clearly have no life outside of reading everything about ME that has quarians in it.

I even read Deception, but I've been trying to scrub it from memory because even quarians couldn't save it from being the worst thing ever invented.

Rest of your post is pretty good too.

 

 

Aha, wish I could verbally spank people here with knowledge off the top of my head like that. :P  Reading that post actually made me dig out my ME books that I've never got around to reading. Must amend this. Read only one so far, Retribution, enjoyed that. I've read most of the graphic novels tho, just easier/so so lazy. 


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#22
Vit246

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I really needed to get this out of my system, but.... its always disturbed me since 2012 how many people don't try to see things from the Quarian POV and how many fell for Bioware's emotional manipulation, whitewashing of the geth, and gaslighting of the Quarians.


Modifié par Vit246, 17 février 2016 - 10:16 .

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#23
Quarian Master Race

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Aha, wish I could verbally spank people here with knowledge off the top of my head like that. :P  Reading that post actually made me dig out my ME books that I've never got around to reading. Must amend this. Read only one so far, Retribution, enjoyed that. I've read most of the graphic novels tho, just easier/so so lazy. 

Retribution is decent. Ascencion is my favourite of the novels personally because it puts a huge focus on life in the Flotilla. In general I'd say none of them are literary masterpieces or anything, but all but one are enjoyable if you are a fan of the universe.

That one being Deception is truly the most awful thing I've ever read. It absolutely craps all over the lore with things like suitless quarians wearing hobo rags with incorrect names, a Mary Sue human whose inexpicably powerful biotics age her 6 years between 2183 and 2186 literally cure her autism, previously gay characters magically going straight, batarian pirate ships with the Normandy's experimental stealth technology etc. Don't bother with it, as it's not even considered canon.

Vit246, on 17 Feb 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:snapback.png

I really needed get this out of my system, but.... its always disturbed me since 2012 how many people don't try to see things from the Quarian POV and how many fell for Bioware's emotional manipulation, whitewashing of the geth, and gaslighting of the Quarians.

The presentation in the games but particularly ME3 is one sided, and casual fans aren't going to read the companion works, or merely the codex with a little critical thinking. It doesn't help that racism against quarians is basically legitimized by the setting, and they already suffer from the inherent empathic dehumanization of being a bunch of faceless people in masks (ala Stormtroopers). Meanwhile the geth get cute little facial expressions and puppy dog eyes. Frankly I'm surprised even a quarter of players choose to save the quarians with how blantantly the presentation encourages and then justifies their killing.



#24
Quarian Master Race

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I really needed get this out of my system, but.... its always disturbed me since 2012 how many people don't try to see things from the Quarian POV and how many fell for Bioware's emotional manipulation, whitewashing of the geth, and gaslighting of the Quarians.

the presentation in the games but particularly ME3 is one sided, and casual fans aren't going to read the companion works, or merely the codex with a little critical thinking. It doesn't help that racism against quarians is basically legitimized by the setting, and they already suffer from the inherent empathic dehumanization of being a bunch of faceless people in masks (ala Stormtroopers). Meanwhile the geth get cute little facial expressions and puppy dog eyes. Frankly I'm surprised even a quarter of players choose to save the quarians with how blantantly the narrative encourages and justifies their killing.



#25
Jukaga

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I really needed to get this out of my system, but.... its always disturbed me since 2012 how many people don't try to see things from the Quarian POV and how many fell for Bioware's emotional manipulation, whitewashing of the geth, and gaslighting of the Quarians.

 

Agreed. I've never bitten that line that Bioware dangled. The Geth are so full of sh*t it's almost unbearable to sit through the server mission in the Rannoch arc. At least back on the ship you can shut Legion/Geth VI down when it brings up the 'Number 5 is alive' argument but auto-Shepard is far too sympathetic to the Geth, even when you sold it to Cerberus back in ME2.

 

I blame TNG's Data, which has conditioned people to accept talking machines as people, not tools.