75 réponses à ce sujet

[SleepyPerson]

There's probably been threads like this before but I'm sure opinions changed. It's been a year and a half or so since release after all and months since Trespasser.

 

Did you prefer mages or templars? Allying or Conscripting?

 

Any elf players side with the templars? Share you're reasoning and headcanons, if you can.

 

So far, the thought of time magic gives me a headache but it seems urgent. Yet I'm more curious about finding out what's going on with the templars but a Dalish siding with them seems a bit strange (not impossible though). But I also plan on romancing Dorian and I wonder if doing In Hushed Whispers is the better choice for someone who will romance him.

 

This is my first playthrough, although I'm not worried about spoilers by now.

[The Baconer]

There are good reasons to conscript either group. Alliances are ill-advised. 

[Qun00]

Siding with the templars is only hard to explain for a mage. And even then, there is always the option to be pro Circle like Wynne and Vivienne.

But why would a Dalish elf have a problem with them?

[fraggle]

I pick the mages when I romance Dorian. So if you want to romance him, go for mages. It's totally worth it and builds up a first familiarity between you two

 

For my current elf I went with the templars, but I went to see the mages and Dorian first nevertheless, then checked out the mission on the war table. She refused to do it in the end because she did not want to play bait for Alexius's obvious trap. Don't know if that's a good enough reason, but it was okay for me to play it out like that.

[Abyss108]

Siding with the templars is only hard to explain for a mage. And even then, there is always the option to be pro Circle like Wynne and Vivienne.

But why would a Dalish elf have a problem with them?

It seems a little strange to me, because Dalish elves don't lock their mages away. So why would a Dalish support that? Even if they are not a mage themselves, that's helping the people who want to hunt down your leaders. One of the reasons Dalish clans move around is to protect the Keepers from templars.

 

You could probably justify it by not really caring about human issues. What the humans do with their own mages isn't really your concern.

[dragonflight288]

There's probably been threads like this before but I'm sure opinions changed. It's been a year and a half or so since release after all and months since Trespasser.

 

Did you prefer mages or templars? Allying or Conscripting?

 

Any elf players side with the templars? Share you're reasoning and headcanons, if you can.

 

So far, the thought of time magic gives me a headache but it seems urgent. Yet I'm more curious about finding out what's going on with the templars but a Dalish siding with them seems a bit strange (not impossible though). But I also plan on romancing Dorian and I wonder if doing In Hushed Whispers is the better choice for someone who will romance him.

 

This is my first playthrough, although I'm not worried about spoilers by now.

 

You could play a cautious dalish elf, even a mage. 

 

Cullen makes a good point, if you ignore the plot armor. The character has NO idea what will happen if you gather a bunch of mages to power up the anchor, whereas going to the templars has them use their abilities on the Breach itself to weaken it enough so an unenhanced anchor can do the same job. 

[dragonflight288]

Siding with the templars is only hard to explain for a mage. And even then, there is always the option to be pro Circle like Wynne and Vivienne.

But why would a Dalish elf have a problem with them?

 

The Dalish and the templars have a strained history, with templars hunting keepers and firsts, or in the case of DA2, torturing a young hunter with fire. 

[Dabrikishaw]

I don't roleplay that much, and when I do it's rather simple stuff.

 

My Faithful Inquisitors, those who believe they were Andraste's chosen, always ally with the Templars. My Non Faithful Inquisitors either ally with the mages or conscript the Templars. My Qun-following Qunari always conscript the Mages.

 

I personally prefer playing In Hushed Whispers because it's shorter and I don't like the Tower Defense portion of Champions of the Just.

[SleepyPerson]

You could play a cautious dalish elf, even a mage. 

 

Cullen makes a good point, if you ignore the plot armor. The character has NO idea what will happen if you gather a bunch of mages to power up the anchor, whereas going to the templars has them use their abilities on the Breach itself to weaken it enough so an unenhanced anchor can do the same job. 

 

A cautious dalish elf is what I'm trying to go for. That's also a pretty good reason.

 

I'm just so confused because I want him to become slowly cautious of magic as the game progresses. He was raised in a culture that embraces it after all. The events of the mage side of the story would give him more reason to be wary of it and to not support the free for all that Leliana wants later on. The events of the templar side of the story would give him a new perception on templars that would be positive and why they're needed. Both seem good for his character development. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Then go with the Templars. Dalish getting a new perspective on anything from human society sounds more interesting.

[SleepyPerson]

Then go with the Templars. Dalish getting a new perspective on anything from human society sounds more interesting.

 

My gut feeling is saying the same. I'll do it! 

[Ghost Gal]

Siding with the templars is only hard to explain for a mage. And even then, there is always the option to be pro Circle like Wynne and Vivienne.

 

Yes, because a Dalish mage born to freedom and part of a society/culture that reveres magic and has their own (as far as they know) positive history and social attitude about it (which works out fairly well for them) would, of course, prefer the mage-phobic culture that demonizes magic and mages and forces them all into cramped stone prisons where Templars can and do frequently impose horrific abuses of power on them.

 

Elves who hate bowing to humans would be more than happy bowing to human Templars.

 

Also, living outside Andrastian society, the fact that all the Circles crumbled and the majority of mages all over Southern Thedas chose to leave and risk the Templars' wrath rather than stay totally proves to a Dalish mage looking from the outside that the Circle is a great system worth preserving.

 

But why would a Dalish elf have a problem with them?

 

Because Templars serve the same Chantry that took back their homeland and outlawed their religion? Because they're sometimes called out to help drive away and/or hunt down Dalish that settle too close to human villages? Because Templars frequently treat Dalish Keepers as apostates and often try to round them up into their Circles?

[Cute Nug]

An interest in romancing Dorian is probably the only reason I wouldn't happily walk away from the rebel mages allied with a clearly evil Tevinter mage intent on trapping you for probably not so good reasons. Avoid opening the Tranquil murder shack if you go with the mages or the omitted concern makes everyone seem evil, soulless, or just stupid.

 

Even a Dalish with a shaky trust of pimplars could see them as a potential lesser evil option instead of just blindly jumping into a trap set by an evil high ranking mage from the Shem empire that destroyed the elves.

 

I would have to go with how I was playing a Dalish Elf first impressions meeting Dorian. A high ranking Tevinter seems the worst possible choice for a Dalish but love wants what love wants. Great risky romance choice!

 

If you are going cautious, even a love at first sight meeting with Dorian wouldn't justify the high risk gamble of trusting Dorian's sketchy plan to trap the trap and checking with the templars for help makes sense. Either path can work. Hesitancy as a player just shows the difficulty it would be for the character you are playing so either choice is acceptable. Have fun. 

[Mistic]

I'm just so confused because I want him to become slowly cautious of magic as the game progresses. He was raised in a culture that embraces it after all. The events of the mage side of the story would give him more reason to be wary of it and to not support the free for all that Leliana wants later on.

 

Certain dialogue choices, especially with a Dalish Mage, show that Dalish clans are not so freedom-loving in magical matters. There are limits to how many mages a clan has and they are said to take every spirit with caution (from that perspective, the choice about Cole should be more difficult than the choice between mages and templars). So the cautious type among the Dalish is indeed supported by lore.

 

My Dalish playthrough was with a Dalish Mage, so I chose mages. Not so much because of some sort of class sympathy ("I'm Dalish, I don't really understand or care too much about your Circle politics"), but because dialogue with Cullen can reveal that the Keeper did warn the future Inquisitor about Templars; also, my character always denied being the Herald of Andraste and believed in the elven gods, so the "brag about being the Herald of Andraste with several nobles to convince some people that months ago would have gladly imprison or kill you" option didn't feel very in-character, while the "stop the shady Magister that could control time" option felt more urgent. But I guess that Dalish character of yours isn't a mage, right?

[In Exile]

Yes, because a Dalish mage born to freedom and part of a society/culture that reveres magic and has their own (as far as they know) positive history and social attitude about it (which works out fairly well for them) would, of course, prefer the mage-phobic culture that demonizes magic and mages and forces them all into cramped stone prisons where Templars can and do frequently impose horrific abuses of power on them.

 

Dalish culture is inconsistent as to magic. They worship it in a sense - they apparently see the world where they were all mages as some kind of ubermensch ideal, which is a pretty unhealthy story to perpetrate to the mundanes - but they also treat their mages like cattle, trading them around from clan to clan. It's a different kind of gilded cage, and that's before we get into an argument as to whether DA:I retconned how the Dalish treat surplus mages. 

[Lazarillo]

Siding with the templars is only hard to explain for a mage. And even then, there is always the option to be pro Circle like Wynne and Vivienne.

But why would a Dalish elf have a problem with them?

For my mages of all backgrounds, the headcanon justification for going Templars is often "I can already do magic, so I need more of a different kind of power".

[Steelcan]

For my mages of all backgrounds, the headcanon justification for going Templars is often "I can already do magic, so I need more of a different kind of power".

or that you believe in the Circle system and so on

 

or cause you hate Fiona...

[Qun00]

Yes, because a Dalish mage born to freedom and part of a society/culture that reveres magic and has their own (as far as they know) positive history and social attitude about it (which works out fairly well for them) would, of course, prefer the mage-phobic culture that demonizes magic and mages and forces them all into cramped stone prisons where Templars can and do frequently impose horrific abuses of power on them.

Elves who hate bowing to humans would be more than happy bowing to human Templars.

Also, living outside Andrastian society, the fact that all the Circles crumbled and the majority of mages all over Southern Thedas chose to leave and risk the Templars' wrath rather than stay totally proves to a Dalish mage looking from the outside that the Circle is a great system worth preserving.


Because Templars serve the same Chantry that took back their homeland and outlawed their religion? Because they're sometimes called out to help drive away and/or hunt down Dalish that settle too close to human villages? Because Templars frequently treat Dalish Keepers as apostates and often try to round them up into their Circles?

Ohh... so touchy. I, for one, don't find the Dalish's attitude towards magic to be a polar opposite to the templars.

They are also cautious and allow only three mages to stay in one clan. "That's different! the Circles are full of injustice!". Well, ask Minaeve.

As for Andrastianism, it seems inappropriate to be Chantry sensitive about the templars' allegiance when you're leading the armies of the faithful. Also, it is the templars that would bow to the Inquisitor. Not the other way around.

[Xilizhra]

Ohh... so touchy. I, for one, don't find the Dalish's attitude towards magic to be a polar opposite to the templars.

They are also cautious and allow only three mages to stay in one clan. "That's different! the Circles are full of injustice!". Well, ask Minaeve.

As for Andrastianism, it seems inappropriate to be Chantry sensitive about the templars' allegiance when you're leading the armies of the faithful. Also, it is the templars that would bow to the Inquisitor. Not the other way around.

Minaeve had a terrible clan and skewed experiences. And it's not inappropriate at all to be sensitive about Andrastianism, given that your position was thrust upon you unwillingly (also, you don't lead the armies of the faithful until after your recruitment choice).

[Gervaise]

The thing is you are not necessarily siding with anyone.   It can be purely a practical step.    Now my Dalish mages tend to go with the mages because they are less fazed by Dorian's exposition of time magic and at least one of them is arrogant enough to think he can deal with anything Alexius can throw at him.

 

However, my initial response as Dalish was to approach the mages and then having discovered they had sold out to Tevinter, to opt for approaching the Templars instead.   It was sort of the lesser of two evils.   The reasoning went something like this.   Dorian tells me that it is all down to time magic but I really don't know whether I can trust him.   As a Dalish I know that we would rather die than submit to Tevinter, so I have utter contempt for the mage rebellion after this because they seem to have done exactly what people feared mages would do if they had their freedom.    It also seemed suicidal to walk into Redcliffe Castle which is chock full of hostile mages, when he wasn't a mage, and hope that Dorian succeeds in getting Leliana's agents in. (How was I to know it would be ridiculously easy for them to do this?)  It seemed a far better idea to head off to Therinfall, get the Templars to help close the Breach and then go back and deal with the Magister with some magic negating back up.    As it turned out, we weren't given the chance, the Magister was killed by Corypheus for his failure to capture me and then the whole mage army attacked Haven.     When given the choice whether or not to disband the Templars, naturally my Dalish disbanded them and placed them under his control, because they clearly had no credible leadership left alive and anyway he didn't want to leave the order around to cause trouble to Dalish in the future.

 

On a personal level I prefer the Templar path because it doesn't involve time magic and it is the only way I can get rid of Fiona as leader of the mages.   I was very annoyed that I was not allowed to judge her on the mages path and was stuck with her as their leader whether they were allied with or conscripted.

 

I was also planning on a Dorian romance but still took the Templar path.   It makes no difference to the outcome with him; it just takes longer to get there.   In a way it makes our later devotion seem that much more special because initially I didn't trust him but by the end of the game, he is one of the few people my Dalish absolutely does trust.    It is a pretty big deal him ending up with a Tevinter Magister as a lover and in doing so he pretty much accepts the fact that it may cut him off from his own people and earn their ire: human lover bad; Tevinter worse, Magister you are an utter pariah.   (Although I have written my own fiction that has him getting the support of Dalish like Cillian who worked as an agent for the Inquisition and so knows what Dorian is like and that he is an okay guy).

[Qun00]

Minaeve had a terrible clan and skewed experiences. And it's not inappropriate at all to be sensitive about Andrastianism, given that your position was thrust upon you unwillingly (also, you don't lead the armies of the faithful until after your recruitment choice).

Not all clans. Not all Circles. See how this goes?

True enough, but the Inquisitor tolerates it because duty and protecting the world comes first. Why wouldn't the same apply to the templars? They would serve that purpose.

Oh no, I wasn't referring to them when I mentioned the armies of the faithful. I meant the Inquisition's army in general.

[Xilizhra]

Not all clans. Not all Circles. See how this goes?

When would Dalish ever meet benign templars? They wouldn't come into contact unless the templars were out hunting.

 

 

True enough, but the Inquisitor tolerates it because duty and protecting the world comes first. Why wouldn't the same apply to the templars? They would serve that purpose.

There's no point in making it worse than it already is.

 

 

Oh no, I wasn't referring to them when I mentioned the armies of the faithful. I meant the Inquisition's army in general.

That's what I meant too. You don't lead the Inquisition until after the recruitment choice. Before then, you're just a cool representative who can seal rifts.

[The Baconer]

Also, it is the templars that would bow to the Inquisitor. Not the other way around.

 

They bow to you (literally) if you conscript them, which you should. 

[In Exile]

Minaeve had a terrible clan and skewed experiences. And it's not inappropriate at all to be sensitive about Andrastianism, given that your position was thrust upon you unwillingly (also, you don't lead the armies of the faithful until after your recruitment choice).

 

Minaeve's clan isn't supposed to be an exception. There's a different debate to be had as to whether or not that's a retcon (I personally think it's entirely consistent with the attitude we see the Dalish express towards mages, which is to say that they are perfectly willing to treat them as chattel at times), but it's not meant to - in DA:I - be a unique feature of their clan. 

[Xilizhra]

Minaeve's clan isn't supposed to be an exception. There's a different debate to be had as to whether or not that's a retcon (I personally think it's entirely consistent with the attitude we see the Dalish express towards mages, which is to say that they are perfectly willing to treat them as chattel at times), but it's not meant to - in DA:I - be a unique feature of their clan. 

Yes it is. Or at least a sizable minority, given that no other clan anywhere exhibits that feature; Zathrian's clan had more than three mages and never exiled anyone, which we're certain of, and Clan Lavellan didn't do so either. The other four we know about didn't have it mentioned one way or another, but nothing in any universe indicates that Minaeve's clan is anything more than an aberration.