270 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Ferelden burns their dead, that's not it.  

 

 

 

 

 

That didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine,like phoenix it is reborn from the ashes.

 

 

They won't bring him/her back , they couldn't even do justice to Hawke that was much less customizable and had only 3 possible personalities let alone HoF that was entirely shaped in terms of personality by player.

they couldn't do justice to Hawke because Hawke was an npc,but had been Hawke the Inquisitor there wouldn't have been these kind of problems,but of course everyone wanted multi-race even if it didn't make much sense for the position of an Inquisitor

 

You had your magic; it was the dark ritual. Those who denied it get no second chances

Who cares about the ritual, the US didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine and defeat the mother,i always headcanons that i absorb the archdemon soul

[midnight tea]

Who cares about the ritual, the US didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine and defeat the mother,i always headcanons that i absorb the archdemon soul

 

So... basically, you want Bioware to pander to your headcanon? A headcanon that pretty much goes AGAINST the canon.

 

You realize this is not how consistent stories are told? You can't just apply a BS solution and run with it - even in a linear, non-branching story.

 

In case of death of say, Leliana, it's not like they've just gone around the lore and world mechanics: she died in a place that has very peculiar magic and is basically built on a heap of pure lyrium, which also happens to be the blood of a mythical and powerful creature. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened to Justinia - and who knows, maybe even Inquisitor - after the explosion at the Conclave. Needless to say, that peculiar element of world's mechanics will at one point or another likely be used somewhere else. Chekhov's gun anyone?

 

Your headcanon on the other hand goes against anything we know is established by lore. Even if we assume that the soul of the Warden that strikes the Archdemon isn't immediately obliterated, that's still an assumption that is miles away from likeliness of Warden just absorbing the Archdemon through Sheer Power Of Awesomeness.

[robertthebard]

That didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine,like phoenix it is reborn from the ashes.

 

they couldn't do justice to Hawke because Hawke was an npc,but had been Hawke the Inquisitor there wouldn't have been these kind of problems,but of course everyone wanted multi-race even if it didn't make much sense for the position of an Inquisitor

 

Who cares about the ritual, the US didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine and defeat the mother,i always headcanons that i absorb the archdemon soul

So you want to build a whole game based on an import glitch.  Got it.

[AlanC9]

Alan C9.. I learned years ago dying for nothing means shite.. None of my Wardens see any need for wasting their lives when there is a way out. Of course I never was one to talk the talk and not walk the walk..

That's great if you've actually managed to contrive things so you do have a way out. What if you didn't?

As far as taking one for the team that bullshit talk you don't help your team by dying.

Sure you can, if your life is less valuable than the life of someone else on the team. Like, say, Alistair.

Alistair is the rightful heir to the throne and shouldn't even be in the battle against the AD since there is much to do after the blight that's why in my games he and Anora marries. Camine has no desire to be queen because she knows Ferelden would never allow a Elf to be queen and she's tired of Alistair, Ferelden politics and the GWs.

Well, that's great if you always manage to bring that off.

Of course, with enough metagaming you can usually avoid such situations (not always; for instance,a non-import non-MP Shepard can't survive ME3) but all that means is that you're limiting yourself to playing only certain types of Wardens.

[Toasted Llama]

Who cares about the ritual, the US didn't stopped me from saving Amaranthine and defeat the mother,i always headcanons that i absorb the archdemon soul

 

 

Hea--.... head.... Headcanon above canon?! Confirmed troll thread. No-one is this stupid! ... I hope...

 

 

 

So... basically, you want Bioware to pander to your headcanon? A headcanon that pretty much goes AGAINST the canon.

 

You realize this is not how consistent stories are told? You can't just apply a BS solution and run with it - even in a linear, non-branching story.

 

In case of death of say, Leliana, it's not like they've just gone around the lore and world mechanics: she died in a place that has very peculiar magic and is basically built on a heap of pure lyrium, which also happens to be the blood of a mythical and powerful creature. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing didn't happen to Justinia - and who knows, maybe even Inquisitor - after the explosion at the Conclave. Needless to say, that or peculiar element of world's mechanics will at one point or another be used somewhere else. Chekhov's gun anyone?

 

Your headcanon on the other hand goes against anything we know is established by lore. Even if we assume that the soul of the Warden that strikes the Archdemon isn't immediately obliterated, that's still a less unlikely assumption that without the ritual your Warden just absorbs the Archdemon through Sheer Power Of Awesomeness.

 

Hold on, he's got a headcanon ready to refute all of that!

[medusa_hair]

That's because the HOF, as awesome as he/she was, was pretty much a wooden doll whose personality was pretty much inside our head. They would never get it right and it would never be the same.

It's like your first love...you can never go back and have it be the same. Best to remember fondly and move on. :-)

[Donquijote and 59 others]

So you want to build a whole game based on an import glitch. Got it.

You can view it as such, but to me it isn't a glitch for the simple reason that nobody have the basic understanding of the process of the US and of the archdemons souls ,all that they know is basically what Riordan speculate and the death of the body not the soul destruction.
How do you know that souls can be destroyed?
How do you know that they are not just merged and imprisoned somewhere?
From the Fade text i can speculate that old gods spirit don't die even when they are killed by GW and that there is no soul destruction maybe a merging.


WE ARE HERE
WE HAVE WAITED
WE HAVE SLEPT
WE ARE SUNDERED
WE ARE CRIPPLED
WE ARE POLLUTED
WE ENDURE
WE WAIT
WE HAVE FOUND THE DREAMS AGAIN
WE WILL AWAKEN

[Ash Wind]

First my apologies, but I’ve never mastered the multi-quote thing, so I’ll have to do a lot of cutting and pasting.

 

midnight tea said…
Right... aside from Hawke NEVER dying. Aside from ending pretty much always in the same spot in the narrative in the epilogue (Leli and Cas searching for Hawke who disappeared) - no matter what decision player makes. Aside from Varric being established as not-exactly-reliable narrator. And aside from him unleashing DAI's villain on the world.
 

Hon... actually pay attention to the story instead of calling BS.

 

I’ve read this a number of times and still aren’t quite sure what you’re saying. Maybe, in part, that I was saying Hawke shouldn’t have been in DAI? If so, please show me where I said this, I never implied this, Hon, I think it’s awesome Hawke fans got to see him/her again. My point was they could have done the same for the Warden.

 

If this is about DAO’s Ultimate sacrifice, that’s just absurd. I don’t get the school of thought that ’My Warden performed the US, so there can be no further participation by the HOF, everyone must respect my wishes.’

 

If its about neither of these, I would love to read your clarification.

 

Hon… if you're going to be condescending, at least read what I wrote, and not what you want to pretend I said.

 

midnight tea said…
That... doesn't even make sense. Character creation was never an issue - we can recreate Hawke after all. Hawke has its place in DAI narrative though, as it was pointed out before - that, and DA2 had 3 distinct personality flavors, which isn't just a matter of voice, but of different writing as well.

 

Hon, character creation was one of the alleged issues with the idea of the HOF making an appearance in DA2, as there was no PC created Dwarf, or Elf as the Protag was Human. This wasn’t an issue for DAI which had PC created H, D, and Es, all of which the HoF could have been. If you can’t make sense of that, then, you can’t make sense of that. Again, I never said Hawke shouldn’t have been in DAI, now did I?

 

midnight tea said…
Oh dear... such naivete. If so many lamented that "the DAI Hawke wasn't their Hawke" I can already imagine the laments over HoF, even if they've spent basically entire game and all their resources (and brought Your Ideal Dev Team) on actually bringing them back.

 

Naivety, this one really cracks me up, Hon maybe you’re right. The point being, if BW put up a hypothetical poll that only fans of the HoF could respond to, and the two options where 1. Never see him/her again, or 2. See him/her, but you may not like his voice, or may not like his character… I think most fans of the Warden would choose the latter. Maybe it is naivety, not the first time, probably won’t be the last. 

 

midnight tea said…
Someone's here got a massive grudge...

 

Someone can interpret (or rather misinterpret) things any way they want, doesn't mean it contains a shred of truth, Hon.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

 

Hea--.... head.... Headcanon above canon?! Confirmed troll thread. No-one is this stupid! ... I hope...

 

 

 

 

 

What headcanon this is lore expansion,you know nothing of what happens to an archdemon soul who enter into a GW body all that you know is what that ignoramus of Riordan said to you, you don't even know if those things are dead, all that you know is that the archdemon do not return.

I can speculate if i want that the old gods planned this and betrayed the magisters because they wanted to create the darkspawns,to be found so that they would have been released from their prisons and if they are the forgotten ones,they are just planning the reckoning of whom FLemeth is talking about in DAI with the creators.

[Tidus]

AlanC9,If it seems there's no way out then one will lay down and die needlessly or fight his way out.

[robertthebard]

What headcanon this is lore expansion,you know nothing of what happens to an archdemon soul who enter into a GW body all that you know is what that ignoramus of Riordan said to you, you don't even know if those things are dead, all that you know is that the archdemon do not return.

I can speculate if i want that the old gods planned this and betrayed the magisters because they wanted to create the darkspawns,to be found so that they would have been released from their prisons and if they are the forgotten ones,they are just planning the reckoning of whom FLemeth is talking about in DAI with the creators.

Actually, this is blatantly false, I can tell you exactly what happens:  The HoF dies, and gets a nice funeral in Denerim.

 

[midnight tea]

I’ve read this a number of times and still aren’t quite sure what you’re saying. Maybe, in part, that I was saying Hawke shouldn’t have been in DAI? If so, please show me where I said this, I never implied this, Hon, I think it’s awesome Hawke fans got to see him/her again. My point was they could have done the same for the Warden.

 

The answer to your point was basically in the comment section you apparently don't understand. So I'm at a loss how to explain it to you, because here I thought that I'm already laying it out as simply as I possibly can.

 

Like... I'm not really sure how to explain it, if you seem to be unable to accept that the way characters and story is written makes the possibility of HoF to return very small, while the way Hawke and his/her whereabouts were written doesn't. So NO - they could have not done the same with the Warden.

 

Not the Warden that can die. Not the warden that can be a queen of Ferelden. Not the Warden that can disappear with Morrigan in the mirror. Hawke CAN'T do that - the narrative never lets them die, nor diverge much in terms of future fate or whereabouts. They always end up in pretty much the same spot in the narrative at the end of the game, same like Inquisitor, and UNLIKE HoF. What's there to not understand?

 

 

If this is about DAO’s Ultimate sacrifice, that’s just absurd. I don’t get the school of thought that ’My Warden performed the US, so there can be no further participation by the HOF, everyone must respect my wishes.’

 

... So, because YOU want it otherwise, both everyone else and BW must respect YOUR wishes, damn the others, or the story how they want to tell it?

 

Basically you admit here that there are hardly any valid or logical reasons for HoF to reappear back in the story other than you really want it so.

 

And I understand it - I totally do. You hold DAO and HoF dear to your heart, like other people do other things or their own creations. But DAO isn't just your creation or something created just for you, or those who want specific character back. There's a story they want to tell there and it will go the way it does. They'll review feedback and send people a wink or two, but some things are more difficult - or pretty much impossible - to do. That's it.

 

 

Hon, character creation was one of the alleged issues with the idea of the HOF making an appearance in DA2, as there was no PC created Dwarf, or Elf as the Protag was Human. This wasn’t an issue for DAI which had PC created H, D, and Es, all of which the HoF could have been. If you can’t make sense of that, then, you can’t make sense of that. Again, I never said Hawke shouldn’t have been in DAI, now did I?

 

I... wut? Why do you bring an ALLEGED ISSUE that's been made irrelevant years prior to the game's release? That doesn't make any sense at all. You're clinging to something that's long been a moot point.

 

 

 

 

Naivety, this one really cracks me up, Hon maybe you’re right. The point being, if BW put up a hypothetical poll that only fans of the HoF could respond to, and the two options where 1. Never see him/her again, or 2. See him/her, but you may not like his voice, or may not like his character… I think most fans of the Warden would choose the latter. Maybe it is naivety, not the first time, probably won’t be the last. 

 

So you're a voice of all HoF fans now, ey? And that's despite the fact that we have people who love HoF on this very thread who said they don't want to see HoF back in the game? You yourself have admitted above that there are those who are "US purists" and their Wardens are dead, so they don't want them back.

 

So don't just go about and just presume what people want and don't want to see with no basis on any evidence of it. At least in terms of Hawke appearance we actually have feedback to base claims on.

 

Also - you realize that not just fans of HoF play Dragon Age? Or they don't necessarily play Dragon Age for HoF? DAO has been released 6 years ago - there aren't that many "fans of HoF" to make it worth it to release a game just for them. I myself began my adventure with DA with DAI - why should I or others care for a PC from a game released half a decade ago?

I like my HoF, but I understand why they've let the character go. I was ready to let my Inquisitor go prior to Trespasser as well, knowing the fate of protagonists in DA games so far, but now I await curiously to see what BW has in store for them - plainly because it makes narrative sense for them to reappear in future installments and hardly anything obstructs it.

 

 

Someone can interpret (or rather misinterpret) things any way they want, doesn't mean it contains a shred of truth, Hon.

 

"A shred of truth", ey? So you yourself admit that there's very little credibility in your claims, basically.

[Toasted Llama]

What headcanon this is lore expansion,you know nothing of what happens to an archdemon soul who enter into a GW body all that you know is what that ignoramus of Riordan said to you, you don't even know if those things are dead, all that you know is that the archdemon do not return.

I can speculate if i want that the old gods planned this and betrayed the magisters because they wanted to create the darkspawns,to be found so that they would have been released from their prisons and if they are the forgotten ones,they are just planning the reckoning of whom FLemeth is talking about in DAI with the creators.

 

Well yes, we know nothing if we ignore the fact that US Wardens have a funeral. Warden's that did the US are dead. Done. Finito. Bit the dust. Kicked the bucket. Gave up the ghost. Met the Maker.

 

They're lifeless, they're corpses, they're deceased.

 

Gone. No more. Passed away.

 

Half of the Wardens can't come back, which is why Bioware won't bring them back anymore. Get over it.

 

The point being, if BW put up a hypothetical poll that only fans of the HoF could respond to, and the two options where 1. Never see him/her again, or 2. See him/her, but you may not like his voice, or may not like his character… I think most fans of the Warden would choose the latter. Maybe it is naivety, not the first time, probably won’t be the last.

 

Judging by the amount of negative responses to this thread, I can safely say your prediction is wrong. Unless you're suddenly going to label those who do not want their HoF to return as people who aren't fans of the HoF.

[midnight tea]

Well yes, we know nothing if we ignore the fact that US Wardens have a funeral. Warden's that did the US are dead. Done. Finito. Bit the dust. Kicked the bucket. Gave up the ghost. Met the Maker.

 

They're lifeless, they're corpses, they're deceased.

 

Gone. No more. Passed away.

 

This is an ex Warden!!

[Toasted Llama]

This is an ex Warden!!
 

*snip*

 

No no no, the Warden is just resting after the long battle with the Archdemon!

 

No! Please, don't kick the Warden! You'll stun the poor sod! You see, they're a mage. Since they have no armor, they get easily stunned!

 

Should've watched that video while writing synonyms for 'dead' xD

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Well yes, we know nothing if we ignore the fact that US Wardens have a funeral. Warden's that did the US are dead. Done. Finito. Bit the dust. Kicked the bucket. Gave up the ghost. Met the Maker.

They're lifeless, they're corpses, they're deceased.

Gone. No more. Passed away.

Yes and then they are in DAA

[robertthebard]

Yes and then they are in DAA

As I indicated earlier, this was an import glitch, not an intended design feature.  I guess, if one feels the need to rationalize and justify their desire, they can fall back to "but this glitch let me continue on anyway", but it wasn't the intended affect.  The fact that this is your strongest argument should demonstrate how weak your position really is, and maybe you should just let it go.

[Toasted Llama]

Yes and then they are in DAA

Ah.... No. They're not. If the HoF did the US and DIED, the ORLEISIAN Warden Commander will go through the events of DA:A, that is NOT the HoF.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

^I don't care to get the 3 achievements that allow the warden to survive i only need to discuss around the US which is the only divergent achievement.

It was not the Orlesian commander it was the Warden of DAO it can be used in DAA and Bioware at the time said to come with whatever headcanon the players wanted in my case i can easily say that is a spirit like Cole who replaced the Warden and this should resolve the Schroodinger warden.

[Tidus]

As I mention before I won't sacrifice my warden. If you do in your games  that's great just don't expect everybody else to follow your lead.

 

Maybe a DLC of the warden after the mess at Vigil's Keep would been nice-maybe showing the warden and Leliana traveling the world and why she decided to return to the chantry. I would rather had that then the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC which I never downloaded..

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

 

Your headcanon on the other hand goes against anything we know is established by lore. Even if we assume that the soul of the Warden that strikes the Archdemon isn't immediately obliterated, that's still an assumption that is miles away from likeliness of Warden just absorbing the Archdemon through Sheer Power Of Awesomeness.

The warden can be played in DAA regardless of the US and at the time as i said Bioware was clear , the players could have created whatever headcanon they wanted,if the likeness of the soul merging isn't appealing i can just as easily say that the warden was mimed by a spirit and that is way it can be imported in DAA,thus resolve the only divergent path which is the US achievement.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

As I mention before I won't sacrifice my warden. If you do in your games  that's great just don't expect everybody else to follow your lead.

 

 

I don't care what people do in their games i'm discussing around the US because is the only divergent achievement of DAO

[ioannisdenton]

HoF did his part. He is over. Like commander Shepard. Like Hawke (for me Hawke was the best)

[Aren]

HoF did his part. He is over. Like commander Shepard. Like Hawke (for me Hawke was the best)

Hawke was the best after Shepard

 

I don't care what people do in their games i'm discussing around the US because is the only divergent achievement of DAO

I think the problem is not the US in itself since Bioware resolved way more contrived issues,yes they can come up and say that the warden was copied by a spirit like Cole of DAI thus allowing to get past the issue of death,the problem however is not that but the implementations of the character with all those divergent paths and the character level.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The warden can be played in DAA regardless of the US and at the time as i said Bioware was clear , the players could have created whatever headcanon they wanted,if the likeness of the soul merging isn't appealing i can just as easily say that the warden was mimed by a spirit and that is way it can be imported in DAA,thus resolve the only divergent path which is the US achievement.

The warden that did US is dead plain and simple, even in keep if you set option that warden did US the warden stays dead and is treated as dead by everyone. The warden being alive in daa if s/he chose US was devs screw up that isn't canon and spirit theory doesn't make sense as the warden meets people that knew him/her and knew s/he died.