270 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Of course, at the time nobody cared. If a player wanted to make his world-state incoherent, it was his business. It's not like players who imported a US Warden to DAA were stupid enough to think that doing this was actually resurrecting them.

Well, that was the theory.

I never imported my US Warden into Awakening.

 

Heck I never imported my Dalish Warden either, because my headcanon was he ran off and abandoned all this Wardenin-ing business after he let Alistair kill the archdemon.

 

He didn't care for humans much. 

[Donquijote and 59 others]

 

and then fan favorites make appearances as NPC to tell the player what they've been up to.

 

   

Which is brutally true,i think that aside from the bard and  Cullen none of those returning characters were necessary with a new protagonist

[Kieran G.]

 

Which is brutally true,i think that aside from the bard and  Cullen none of those returning characters were necessary with a new protagonist

 

yep besides cullen, Leliana, and Flemeth, the rest of those characters are all fan service, Zevran making an appearance has no baring on the plot, or your search for Nathaniel.

 

all pointless for the plot but are just nods to the fans, which is what i think bioware got wrong with the HoF, they tried to give those same nod to the audience with notes and little hints about the HoF but instead just annoyed many because with the lack of detail, or explanation it felt like they were ruining our character. 

[AlanC9]

With some of the HoF's LIs in the game, they had to get into where the HoF was somehow.

[midnight tea]

yep besides cullen, Leliana, and Flemeth, the rest of those characters are all fan service, Zevran making an appearance has no baring on the plot, or your search for Nathaniel.

 

Huh...

 

Flemeth... one of the forgotten elvhen gods, who Obviouly Has A Secret Plan We Will See Revealed Later and whose power has served to strengthen future antagonist - a fanservice? 

 

Leliana - who can become the Divine... a fanservice?

 

Cullen - one of the advisors, crucial to the running of the Inquisition... a fanservice?

 

[Kieran G.]

Huh...

 

Flemeth... one of the forgotten elvhen gods, who Obviouly Has A Secret Plan We Will See Revealed Later and whose power has served to strengthen future antagonist - a fanservice? 

 

Leliana - who can become the Divine... a fanservice?

 

Cullen - one of the advisors, crucial to the running of the Inquisition... a fanservice?

 

the quote is " yep besides cullen, Leliana, and Flemeth, the rest of those characters are all fan service,  " Literally the first thing i say is they aren't fan service. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

all pointless for the plot but are just nods to the fans, which is what i think bioware got wrong with the HoF, they tried to give those same nod to the audience with notes and little hints about the HoF but instead just annoyed many because with the lack of detail, or explanation it felt like they were ruining our character. 

 

They couldn't give details because simply it is impossible for fully customizable character , doing that would ruin character for most of people. In fact even with this letter they might have ruined character for some especially for dwarven and dalish wardens.

 

Huh...

 

Flemeth... one of the forgotten elvhen gods, who Obviouly Has A Secret Plan We Will See Revealed Later and whose power has served to strengthen future antagonist - a fanservice? 

 

Leliana - who can become the Divine... a fanservice?

 

Cullen - one of the advisors, crucial to the running of the Inquisition... a fanservice?

Cullen is in fact fanservice, while Leliana is writers pet, none of those characters had reason to return and could be easily replaced by new character , Flemeth here is only character thad had unfinished and ongoing plot that was exclusive to her and couldn't be replaced.

[Tidus]

My warden kills the AD and then cleans up that mess at Vigil's Keep after that he returns to Denerim and unites with   Leliana and remains at her side until she returns to the chantry. After Vigil's Keep Camine returns to Denerim and marries a Shem merchant.. Chasha returns to the Circle.

 

So,see not all HoF are dead and gone.

[Wulfram]

Again I just said as a storyline, i think the new Protagonist each game works better than if the HoF was a returning protagonist.
Its a continent of social, political and imperialist changes the HoF can't be the only hero of the Dragon Age. 

In theory, I agree.

But in practice a discarded protagonist is doomed to a limbo of irrelevancy where they can't be meaningfully involved even in things that they clearly should be, and I don't think that is very satisfactory, at least so long as Bioware isn't prepared to keep the various stories properly separate.

[robertthebard]

My warden kills the AD and then cleans up that mess at Vigil's Keep after that he returns to Denerim and unites with   Leliana and remains at her side until she returns to the chantry. After Vigil's Keep Camine returns to Denerim and marries a Shem merchant.. Chasha returns to the Circle.

 

So,see not all HoF are dead and gone.

That's nice, some are.  Just like you want to have your head canon on what's going on, so do we, or we wouldn't have chosen the ending, so I won't start "Kill the Warden Thursday", and you leave my Warden alone.  Origins is the only game of the three to release with a toolset.  You can make your own little Warden scenarios, and import exactly the same Warden into them, and play them until you're old and grey, which was yesterday for me, and nobody will care.

[Aren]

 

 

Cullen is in fact fanservice, while Leliana is writers pet, none of those characters had reason to return and could be easily replaced by new character , Flemeth here is only character thad had unfinished and ongoing plot that was exclusive to her and couldn't be replaced.

You can view them as such but at least they have a necessary role to play in the game for the Inquisition.

Others people could have been used at their place to fill those roles but that doesn't change the fact that at least what they do in DAI doesn't make them part of the game for fan service and this is true for Leliana,Cullen,Varric and Cassandra.

Others like Alistair(both in DA2 and in DAI) or Zevran (in DA2) or even Morrigan were not necessary for the plot of DAI.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

You can view them as such but at least they have a necessary role to play in the game for the Inquisition.

Others people could have been used at their place to fill those roles but that doesn't change the fact that at least what they do in DAI doesn't make them part of the game for fan service and this is true for Leliana,Cullen,Varric and Cassandra.

Others like Alistair(both in DA2 and in DAI) or Zevran (in DA2) or even Morrigan were not necessary for the plot of DAI.

 

Not rly, once again Cullen was in da 2 and DaI only because he was very popular that is all pretty much when it comes as for why they gave him role in da 2 and Dai.Importance of the role they gave him is irrelevant, revelant is only reason why he was brought back.   

 

Alistair in dai was as necessary as Leliana or Cullen and by that i mean not necessary at all, game could have easily go without Leliana or Cullen as it could go without Alistair (and it did) , Morrigan on other hand has exclusive to her plot with Flemeth that she had from start of the series.

[Aren]

Not rly, once again Cullen was in da 2 and DaI only because he was very popular that is all pretty much when it comes as for why they gave him role in da 2 and Dai.Importance of the role they gave him is irrelevant, revelant is only reason why he was brought back.   

 

Alistair in dai was as necessary as Leliana or Cullen and by that i mean not necessary at all, game could have easily go without Leliana or Cullen as it could go without Alistair (and it did) , Morrigan on other hand has exclusive to her plot with Flemeth that she had from start of the series.

Leliana and Cullen role as advisors are fundamental for the Inquisition, that you wanted other people at their place does not change the fact that their roles and what they do is fundamental for the Inquisition.

Alistair on the other hand isn't because he could have been replaced by Stroud or simply by Hawke that is always alive in DA2 no matter what,his precence in the "here lyes the abyss" is unecessary they could have forced the choice between Hawke and Stroud in every world-state and eliminate Loghain/Alistair.

 

Morrigan is not necessary to the plot of DAI,she is unnecessary in the Mythal temple,unnecessary to summon Mythal and unnecessary in defeating Corypheus and Gaider by himself said that he does not account about her being important at all for FLemeth plot

[robertthebard]

 

Leliana and Cullen role as advisors are fundamental for the Inquisition, that you wanted other people at their place does not change the fact that their roles and what they do is fundamental for the Inquisition.

Alistair on the other hand isn't because he could have been replaced by Stroud or simply by Hawke that is always alive in DA2 no matter what,his precence in the "here lyes the abyss" is unecessary they could have forced the choice between Hawke and Stroud in every world-state and eliminate Loghain/Alistair.

 

Morrigan is not necessary to the plot of DAI,she is unnecessary in the Mythal temple,unnecessary to summon Mythal and unnecessary in defeating Corypheus and Gaider by himself said that he does not account about her being important at all for FLemeth plot

 

This would be all good, and I'd sign on to buying it, if it weren't for one minor flaw in your logic, and apparently Gaider's?  The Eluvian.  You see, this isn't some McGuffin pulled out of thin air for the benefit of DA I.  It existed prior to DA 2.  It's not "the Lazarus Project" to force Shepard to work with Cerebus for ME 2.  It's there, it's measurable, and some HoF's actually went through it with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt.  So evidently Mr. Gaider missed something about Morrigan's importance to the plot of DA I, or, and this is most likely it:  Someone took something he said out of context to try to make a relevant statement about whether a character needed to be in game or not.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Leliana and Cullen role as advisors are fundamental for the Inquisition, that you wanted other people at their place does not change the fact that their roles and what they do is fundamental for the Inquisition.

Alistair on the other hand isn't because he could have been replaced by Stroud or simply by Hawke that is always alive in DA2 no matter what,his precence in the "here lyes the abyss" is unecessary they could have forced the choice between Hawke and Stroud in every world-state and eliminate Loghain/Alistair.

 

Morrigan is not necessary to the plot of DAI,she is unnecessary in the Mythal temple,unnecessary to summon Mythal and unnecessary in defeating Corypheus and Gaider by himself said that he does not account about her being important at all for FLemeth plot

 

 

Once again as you dont listen,  them being in Inquistion wasn't necessary whatsoever fact is they could have been easily replaced and game wouldn't suffer on it.  Your logic doesn't make sense , you try sell Alistair as not being fundamental because he could have been replaced but try to sell Cullen and Leliana as fundamental despite same thing can be said about Leliana or Cullen.

 

Morrigan was necessary as she has role exclusive to her plot that was not finished and announced since first game, she and Flemeth have/had conflict and this is touched in Inquistion no matter what you do.So yes, she is important to the Flemeth plot because she is strongly connected to the Flemeth and their conflict was as i said announced since first game.  

[Aren]

This would be all good, and I'd sign on to buying it, if it weren't for one minor flaw in your logic, and apparently Gaider's?  The Eluvian.  It's there, it's measurable, and some HoF's actually went through it with Morrigan at the end of Witch Hunt.  So evidently Mr. Gaider missed something about Morrigan's importance to the plot of DA I, or, and this is most likely it:  Someone took something he said out of context to try to make a relevant statement about whether a character needed to be in game or not.

Which Eluvian are you talking about the one in WH in the dragon bones lands?

It remain there in the dragon bones lands it is not in DAI 

 

Once again as you dont listen,  them being in Inquistion wasn't necessary whatsoever fact is they could have been easily replaced and game wouldn't suffer on it.  Your logic doesn't make sense , you try sell Alistair as not being fundamental because he could have been replaced but try to sell Cullen and Leliana as fundamental despite same thing can be said about Leliana or Cullen.

 

Morrigan was necessary as she has role exclusive to her plot that was not finished and announced since first game, she and Flemeth have/had conflict and this is touched in Inquistion no matter what you do.So yes, she is important to the Flemeth plot because she is strongly connected to the Flemeth and their conflict was as i said announced since first game.  

This you who did not understand,the roles of Cullen and Leliana were necessary that you wanted to replace them with  red and blue does not change the fact that you always needed someone to fill their role on the other hand with or without Morrigan nothing change the Inquisitor has no problem in using the well of sorrow,summon Flemeth use the dragon and kill Corypheus.

[TheKomandorShepard]

This you who did not understand,the roles of Cullen and Leliana were necessary that you wanted to replace him with red and blue does not change the fact that you always needed someone to fill their role on the other hand with or without Morrigan nothing change the Inquisitor has no problem in using the well of sorrow,summon the dragon and kill Corypheus.

 

My god im reapting over and over myself to adress your flawed logic , Leliana and Cullen weren't necessary to fulfill role of advisors, Cullen was thrown into role of advisor just because he was popular and Leliana was thrown because she was writers pet, same as Alistair that was replaced by another warden (thus by your logic wasn't fundamental) they could be replaced as easily so these characters were dispensable and unnecessarily thrown into role so in other words game Cullen is only in the game to appease his fans (fan-service) .

 

Morrigan was necessary because once again she was character with plot that was ongoing and exclusive to her , her role couldn't be replaced by anyone because as i said it was exclusive to her so in order finish/carry plot and conflict they have started in first game Morrigan was required.

[Aren]

My god im reapting over and over myself to adress your flawed logic , Leliana and Cullen weren't necessary to fulfill role of advisors, Cullen was thrown into role of advisor just because he was popular and Leliana was thrown because she was writers pet, same as Alistair that was replaced by another warden (thus by your logic wasn't fundamental) they could be replaced as easily so their characters were dispensable and unnecessarily thrown into role so in other words game Cullen is only in the game to appease his fans (fan-service) .

 

Morrigan was necessary because once again she was character with plot that was ongoing and exclusive to her , her role couldn't be replaced by anyone because as i said it was exclusive to her so in order finish plot and conflict they have started in first game Morrigan was required.

And i'm really astonished of your stubbornness

That you wanted to replace Cullen and Leliana with Red and Blue or x,y new charcter doesn't change the fact that the role of spymaster as well as the role of knight captain were necessary for the Inquisition and that the Inquisitor couldn't have done this work ,someone to do that job was always necessary even if they were not CUllen and Leliana but were x and y ok understood now?

On the other hand without Morrigan the main plot of DAI would have been resolved the same and her being part of the Mythal subplot was confirmed to be not yet canon by Gaider,understood now?

you don't need her to handle the well,to summon Mythal,to tame a dragon and to defeat COrypheus and to close the breach

 

 

edit

Alistair and Loghain were not necessary because in every world state not matter what you do for an import in DAI Hawke and Stroud are always alive so there was no need to have 3 characters for the same role.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

And i'm really astonished of your stubbornness

That you wanted to replace Cullen and Leliana with Red and Blue or x,y new chartcer doesn't change the fact that the role of spymaster as well as the role of knight captain were necessary for the Inquisition and that the Inquisitor couldn't have done this work.

On the other hand without Morrigan the main plot of DAI would have been resolved the same and her being part of the Mythal subplot was confirmed to be not yet canon by Gaider,understood now?

 

<Facepalm> It is just...

Read again because you don't even try to process what im saying and keep reapeating your points i have already addressed and refuted.Im  talking about characters thus Leliana and Cullen not role of spymaster and commander. Once again to repeat myself Leliana and Cullen were not essential to the plot as they could have been easily replaced in their roles and Cullen was pushed into his role because of fan-service thus my point stays.

 

Morrigan was necessary and irreplaceable because to finish/carry certain plot she was necessary and her role couldn't be done by any other character, 

[Aren]

<Facepalm> It is just...

Read again because you don't even try to process what im saying and keep reapeating your points i have already addressed and refuted.Im  talking about characters thus Leliana and Cullen not role of spymaster and commander. Once again to repeat myself Leliana and Cullen were not essential to the plot as they could have been easily replaced in their roles and Cullen was pushed into his role because of fan-service thus my point stays.

 

Morrigan was necessary and irreplaceable because to finish/carry certain plot she was necessary and her role couldn't be done by any other character, 

yes and i have been saying the same thing 3 times before you grasped that their role is necessary this you the one who is unable to process what i said.

 

As i said it is false you don't need her for anything,for what reason you need her in DAI i which point she is irreplaceable?

Pretty much i pointed out that all that she did into the Inquisition can be done directly by the Inquisitor

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

yes and i have been saying the same thing 3 times before you grasped that their role is necessary this you the one who is unable to process what i said.

 

As i said it is false you don't need her for anything,for what reason you need her in DA i which point she is irreplaceable?

Pretty much i pointed out that all that she did into the Inquisition can be done directly by the Inquisitor

 

 

But their characters aren't necessary plain and simple.

 

Damn , i see asking you to put at least some effort into processing what im saying is too much.

 

"for what reason you need her in DA i which point she is irreplaceable?"

 

Are you serious dude , im pretty much repeating that she has exclusive plot between her and flemeth that was set up since first game over and over, that shows that you don't even bother to read what im saying. 

[Aren]

 

 

Are you serious dude , im pretty much reapting that she has exclusive plot between her and flemeth that was set up since first game, that shows that you don't even bother to read what im saying. 

Yes i read it and?

Does this supposed to change anything?

Is she necessary for the main Plot and mission of DAI which is defeat Corypheus and close the breach and reveal who Solas is?

Answer no, hence she is no different from Cullen,Leliana,AListair and all those characters who are there for fan service.

At least Leliana and Cullen in their role are fundamental.

[Abyss108]

It's not fanservice to include a previous character in a role that suits them. 

 

If they were included in a role that wasn't suitable for them, or turned up with no role to play in the game it would be fanservice. Bioware could have invented a new character to play these roles, but there was no reason to when they already had people that fit. I don't even like Leiliana or Cullen or Alistair, but they weren't simply fanservice.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

Yes i read it and?

Does this supposed to change anything?

Is she necessary for the main Plot and mission of DAI which is defeat Corypheus and close the breach and reveal who Solas is?

Answer no

 

Yes it supposed because she was necessary to finish/carry conflict devs started in first game and writers set on future product.

No , and neither Leliana and Cullen were in those things, Morrigan just played role in Inquistion when it comes to Corypheus but as Leliana and Cullen her role as suspect , arcane adviser and person that drank from the well could have been replaced by another person.

 

 

It's not fanservice to include a previous character in a role that suits them. 

 

If they were included in a role that wasn't suitable for them, or turned up with no role to play in the game it would be fanservice. Bioware could have invented a new character to play these roles, but there was no reason to when they already had people that fit. I don't even like Leiliana or Cullen or Alistair, but they weren't simply fanservice.

 

It is if character is brought only to appease character fans, Cullen wouldn't show in da 2 nor in dai if he wasn't popular.If it was done once with Cullen it would be fine but guy jumps around the world to just meet new protagonists and be in the game. 

 

Making no sense isn't requirement for fan-service, because coming with reason why character would show up is ridiculously easy in fiction (see leliana death). There was plenty of reasons to not involve same characters over and over again given protagonist and location changes in every game and yet those characters jump around the world just to meet new protagonist and be in the game , plus characters like Leliana could have been killed so there is another reason to not involve them in the game. 

[Aren]

It's not fanservice to include a previous character in a role that suits them. 

 

If they were included in a role that wasn't suitable for them, or turned up with no role to play in the game it would be fanservice. Bioware could have invented a new character to play these roles, but there was no reason to when they already had people that fit. I don't even like Leiliana or Cullen or Alistair, but they weren't simply fanservice.

Yes i somehow agree(even if others people could have been used at their place) they  are necessary and well suited in their role, they are not in DAI for the sake of fan service,they are necessary and as a personal taste i prefer Cullen and Leliana rather than some new x character of whom i do not even care about since they are perfect for those roles.

 

Alistair and Loghain are however not  necessary because Stroud is always alive in DA2 and imho it does not make sense to have 3 charcaters to do the same thing and put them there just so that they could have another chance to die(Alistair/Loghain)

 

Morrigan on the other hand,with or without her it makes no difference since it is Flemeth the one which is vital to kill Corypheus and for the temple of Mythal they could have simply locked Solas as mandatory

 

Yes it supposed because she was necessary to finish/carry conflict devs started in first game and writers set on future product.

 

 

 

 

 

Necessary to finish what?

The OGB plotline which is not mandatory?

If the dark ritual was not performed and the well of sorrow was used by the Inquisitior FLemeth has no reason or necessity to want to meet Morrigan.