41 réponses à ce sujet

[robertmarilyn]

This conversation is between Wynne and Shale:

• Shale: I have a question it may be able to answer, elder mage.
• Wynne: Must it always be "elder mage?" I am not a wizened old crone just yet.
• Shale: Would it prefer "mage well past her prime, don't mind the sagging bits?"
• Wynne: You have an odd way of requesting answers to your questions.
• Shale: I am curious about the abominations of the tower. Is it possible for such a creature to become human again?
• Wynne: Yes, it is simply... very difficult. It requires travel into the Fade.
• Shale: And? Is the mage the same afterwards as the mage was before?
• Wynne: No, I... have never met such a person, but no. They are changed. Forever.
• Shale: I understand. Thank you for the answer... wise one.

Do we know of a character that was a human, became an abomination, and then became human again? 

[Reznore57]

Connor?

[Yaroub]

What's an abomination? The twisted creature or any possessed subject? If it's the first, no we didn't encounter such case - supposedly they can be cured but will..am not sure.. Look different, gaze at the clouds and speak funny stuff.

 

The lore isn't very polished in this regard, there's some contradiction here and there in the demon hierarchy and the whole possessed subjects.

 

But Wynne herself is an abomination and she looks healthy!

[robertmarilyn]

Oh yeah, Connor fits the description...except that Wynne says she has never met such a person but in my game she is the one who went to the fade and defeated the demon so Connor could be freed. 

 

I also wondered about Wynne but she's like Anders...are they abominations or possessed?

[Yaroub]

 

I also wondered about Wynne but she's like Anders...are they abominations or possessed?

 

Sure they're both confirmed abominations - but when an abomination begins and when does it ends?

 

Do they have to look like a proper abomination for them to be legit abominations?

 

 

There's that templar recruit in DA2 whom is being threatened by Cullen and turned into a shade and there is the likes of Uldred who came out with guns blazing and transformed into a whole pride demon!

 

The term abomination covers almost all kind of spiritual possession and it's lame writing - mostly inconsistent with the books.

 

 

Oh yeah, Connor fits the description...except that Wynne says she has never met such a person but in my game she is the one who went to the fade and defeated the demon so Connor could be freed. 

 

 

But she didn't. Not like the kind she encountered in the tower.

[TEWR]

 

 

There's that templar recruit in DA2 whom is being threatened by Cullen and turned into a shade

 

He wasn't an Abomination. Per the lore and WoG Abominations have to be possessed mages, not just any normal person's meat suit being worn by a Demon

 

[robertmarilyn]

But she didn't. Not like the kind she encountered in the tower.

 

She met Connor at the castle, making Teagan act crazy and then faced the demon in the fade and she got to see Connor in the castle afterwards, when my Warden talked to him. 

 

Those types of things are confusing since they aren't explained very well. Why does she not think she has met someone like that when Connor seems to fit the description? (Forget that I forgot about Connor until Reznore57 mentioned him). 

[Yaroub]

He wasn't an Abomination. Per the lore and WoG Abominations have to be possessed mages, not just any normal person's meat suit being worn by a Demon

 

 

He's actually a confirmed abomination. Moreover not just any meat can become abomination even dead meat can become abomination.

 

 

She met Connor at the castle, making Teagan act crazy and then faced the demon in the fade and she got to see Connor in the castle afterwards, when my Warden talked to him. 

 

Those types of things are confusing since they aren't explained very well. Why does she not think she has met someone like that when Connor seems to fit the description? (Forget that I forgot about Connor until Reznore57 mentioned him). 

 

Again:

 

This conversation is between Wynne and Shale:

• Shale: I have a question it may be able to answer, elder mage.
• Wynne: Must it always be "elder mage?" I am not a wizened old crone just yet.
• Shale: Would it prefer "mage well past her prime, don't mind the sagging bits?"
• Wynne: You have an odd way of requesting answers to your questions.
• Shale: I am curious about the abominations of the tower. Is it possible for such a creature to become human again?
• Wynne: Yes, it is simply... very difficult. It requires travel into the Fade.
• Shale: And? Is the mage the same afterwards as the mage was before?
• Wynne: No, I... have never met such a person, but no. They are changed. Forever.
• Shale: I understand. Thank you for the answer... wise one.

Do we know of a character that was a human, became an abomination, and then became human again? 

 

Connor didn't fit the description of the tower abominations, hence why I said "she didn't".

[Qis]

He wasn't an Abomination. Per the lore and WoG Abominations have to be possessed mages, not just any normal person's meat suit being worn by a Demon

 

 

Anything can become abominations, even trees, remember the talking Oak in Brecilian forest? It's an abomination. Spririts and demons can possess anything, it just that they love to choose Mages because Mages have power

[robertmarilyn]

He's actually a confirmed abomination. Moreover not just any meat can become abomination even dead meat can become abomination.

 

 

 

Again:

 

 

Connor didn't fit the description of the tower abominations, hence why I said "she didn't".

 

Ok, now I see..."tower" abomination...not "castle" abomination. 

[vbibbi]

Connor wasn't physically possessed by the demon, it was controlling him from the Fade. That's why we were able to enter the Fade and break its hold on him. It's slightly different than the demon/spirit being physically joined to the person.

 

The only instance I can think of is that runaway shaman's apprentice in JOH. She exiled herself because she didn't want her spirit companion to leave her, but based on how we resolve the quest, she can return to the shaman and presumably release the spirit. But I don't know if we could consider Avvar spirit possession (or Rivaini version) as abominations, since they are completely willing and the spirit doesn't take over the body but coinhabits. It sounds like the Avvar know a lot more about possession than the Circles, though.

[Yaroub]

Ok, now I see..."tower" abomination...not "castle" abomination. 

 

Lol. Witty!

 

Umm... I mean, yes that is exactly my point. 

[TEWR]

 

 

He's actually a confirmed abomination. Moreover not just any meat can become abomination even dead meat can become abomination.

 

No, he's confirmed to be possessed. That's entirely different.

 

 

David Gaider wrote...

 

regular people can be possessed by demons, and are still dangerous, but they are not abominations. Abominations have access to a mage's full power -- even a weak mage turned into an abomination is dangerous -- while a possessed human (or possessed anything) is only as dangerous as the demon that did the possessing. 

 

 

http://forum.bioware...e-abominations/

[The Baconer]

Pharamond from Asunder.

[Yaroub]

No, he's confirmed to be possessed. That's entirely different.

 

 

http://forum.bioware...e-abominations/

 

Opinions are beautiful things - But I'll bite.

 

First off. "2010 Gaider" is obviously wrong - or rather not comprehensive in his description- as he is often when posting in the forums.

 

As mentioned above many things can become abominations, dead or alive, mages or no mages.

 

Wilmod the Templar recruit did indeed turn to an abomination as did many of his fellow recruits later by that maleficar beneath Darktown by the end of the quest. Again, we witnessed many tranquils turning to abominations.

 

Now to be fair, the Templars do possess the ability of spellcasting and as we saw they were terrified that this might work against them turning them to rage or hunger abominations - and it did!

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

As mentioned above many things can become abominations, dead or alive, mages or no mages.

 

Wilmod the Templar recruit did indeed turn to an abomination as did many of his fellow recruits later by that maleficar beneath Darktown by the end of the quest. Again, we witnessed many tranquils turning to abominations.

 

Now to be fair, the Templars do possess the ability of spellcasting and as we saw they were terrified that this might work against them turning them to rage or hunger abominations - and it did!

You're assuming that Varric's narration of what happened is accurate. He specifically says multiple times that you shouldn't do that.

[Yaroub]

You're assuming that Varric's narration of what happened is accurate. He specifically says multiple times that you shouldn't do that.

 

This is a meta argument and if the events during DA2 were to be discarded they would've been so in DA:I.

 

DA2 events are canon until stated otherwise.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This is a meta argument and if the events during DA2 were to be discarded they would've been so in DA:I.

 

DA2 events are cannon until stated otherwise.

DA2 events should be assumed canon if there is no reason to doubt them. There is reason here. We are told from several sources, WoG being the most weakly canon, that "abomination" means "possessed mage."

[Yaroub]

DA2 events should be assumed canon if there is no reason to doubt them. There is reason here. We are told from several sources, WoG being the most weakly canon, that "abomination" means "possessed mage."

 

The narrow definition would be possessed subjects with magical abilities not mages.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The narrow definition would be possessed subjects with magical abilities not mages.

I don't remember where that definition is used. Source?

[Yaroub]

I don't remember where that definition is used. Source?

 

I just searched in the world of Thedas and there isn't one nor in the codexes I believe. So, the game itself I presume.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I just searched in the world of Thedas and there isn't one nor in the codexes I believe. So, the game itself I presume.

The wiki says "person with magical abilities," but it seems to mean "mage." If that was your source, I think you misinterpreted it.

 

Meanwhile, it says there's a bit on abominations on page 172 of WoT.

[Yaroub]

The wiki says "person with magical abilities," but it seems to mean "mage." If that was your source, I think you misinterpreted it.

 

Meanwhile, it says there's a bit on abominations on page 172 of WoT.

 

Actually it was from reddit referencing Asunder.

 

But I searched WoT specifically page 172 and the definition is the same one you mentioned and the one Gaider wrote.

 

Still faulty.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Actually it was from reddit referencing Asunder.

 

But I searched WoT specifically page 172 and the definition is the same one you mentioned and the one Gaider wrote.

 

Still faulty.

Because it contradicts the word of a self-admitted liar? Or did you have something else?

[Yaroub]

Because it contradicts the word of a self-admitted liar? Or did you have something else?

 

I was mistaken about the official definition - no lying intended.

 

My something else would be the same mentioned earlier.

 

 

DA2 events should be assumed canon if there is no reason to doubt them. There is reason here. We are told from several sources, WoG being the most weakly canon, that "abomination" means "possessed mage."

 

Yet we are shown otherwise.