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[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yet we are shown otherwise.

By an impeachable source that should be assumed canon unless it is contradicted by something less impeachable. And as far as this subject goes, it is.

[Yaroub]

By an impeachable source that should be assumed canon unless it is contradicted by something less impeachable. And as far as this subject goes, it is.

 

No it isn't. Much of the lore has been altered since origins.

 

We were told tranquils cannot be possessed and they did, moreover turned to an abomination. So did the templars.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No it isn't. Much of the lore has been altered since origins.

 

We were told tranquils cannot be possessed and they did, moreover turned to an abomination. So did the templars.

The Tranquil become mages again when they're possessed. That's why they're abominations: because after the demon possesses them, they become mages, thus making them possessed mages. And the Templars just didn't canonically become abominations.

 

The Tranquil are a retcon. The Templars, however, are not. They fly in the face of the lore as previously and since established, and the only evidence at all for them is an in-game event that can be explained away as Varric stretching "possessed being" into "abomination." Unless you can find evidence apart from that, I really just don't see that you even have an argument here.

[Yaroub]

The Tranquil become mages again when they're possessed. That's why they're abominations: because after the demon possesses them, they become mages, thus making them possessed mages. And the Templars just didn't canonically become abominations.

 

The Tranquil are a retcon. The Templars, however, are not. They fly in the face of the lore as previously and since established, and the only evidence at all for them is an in-game event that can be explained away as Varric stretching "possessed being" into "abomination." Unless you can find evidence apart from that, I really just don't see that you even have an argument here.

 

Oh boy I do have an argument alright. You on the other hand - meh. I am providing you with events that took place with a main game settings and you're denying. Apparently DA2 plot ain't canon.

 

The Tranquil gone from being cut out with all ties with the state of magic, not being able to dream nor relate with the fade nor to be possessed - To become normal again using not very slick recton ( but it's Bioware so who is counting) they are cured because a spirit contacted with them, restoring all that was lost.

 

Demons seek to possess those who wield sufficient magical abilities. Granted, more powerful demons seek to possess those with higher magical abilities.

 

Templars possess the ability of spellcasting through magic due to the consumption of lyrium as mages gain great magical powers through a similar process. While Dwarves get disconnected from the fade due to the lengthy exposure to lyrium similar to Tranquils who get branded with lyrium in order to get cut from the fade. Moreover, lyrium- pure magic- is the method to create Golems. Furthermore, the whole events that took place in the Temple of Sacred Ashes regarding the ashes, Oghren remarks and Leliana later on work similar to Wynne situation - making Leliana an abomination.

 

Lyrium and the fade are connected as in "lyrium is the linking gate to the fade"- canon- Templars magical abilities work as dispels against hostile magic and demons by tapping into the fade(same as Fenris) to restore order.

 

Now it only make sense (much more than the Tranquil recton) that Templar in a certain situation...such as. Say, being held a hostage not able to perform his abilities and dispel demons while a blood magic experiment is conducted upon him. Will meet the appropriate Requirements. Or we can just erase DA2. I mean it's not the most loved sequel after all.

 

But hey, if that's whats keeps you going on then that's what keeps you going on. Don't let me tell you otherwise.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Oh boy I do have an argument alright. You on the other hand - meh. I am providing you with events that took place with a main game settings and you're denying. Apparently DA2 plot ain't canon.

 

The Tranquil gone from being cut out with all ties with the state of magic, not being able to dream nor relate with the fade nor to be possessed - To become normal again using not very slick recton ( but it's Bioware so who is counting) they are cured because a spirit contacted with them, restoring all that was lost.

 

Demons seek to possess those who wield sufficient magical abilities. Granted, more powerful demons seek to possess those with higher magical abilities.

 

Templars possess the ability of spellcasting through magic due to the consumption of lyrium as mages gain great magical powers through a similar process. While Dwarves get disconnected from the fade due to the lengthy exposure to lyrium similar to Tranquils who get branded with lyrium in order to get cut from the fade. Moreover, lyrium- pure magic- is the method to create Golems. Furthermore, the whole events that took place in the Temple of Sacred Ashes regarding the ashes, Oghren remarks and Leliana later on work similar to Wynne situation - making Leliana an abomination.

 

Lyrium and the fade are connected as in "lyrium is the linking gate to the fade"- canon- Templars magical abilities work as dispels against hostile magic and demons by tapping into the fade(same as Fenris) to restore order.

 

Now it only make sense (much more than the Tranquil recton) that Templar in a certain situation...such as. Say, being held a hostage not able to perform his abilities and dispel demons while a blood magic experiment is conducted upon him. Will meet the appropriate Requirements. Or we can just erase DA2. I mean it's not the most loved sequel after all.

 

But hey, if that's whats keeps you going on then that's what keeps you going on. Don't let me tell you otherwise.

Do you want to address the actual points I made, or just strawman me?

[Yaroub]

Do you want to address the actual points I made, or just strawman me?

 

The point is that you won't accept the fact that they turned to abominations because it doesn't fit the description. Even when the description was proven false with the tranquil.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The point is that you won't accept the fact that they turned to abominations because it doesn't fit the description. Even when the description was proven false with the tranquil.

The Tranquil are damaged mages who are repaired at the moment of possession by the possession. (Or at least they were as of the retcon.) They become mages again at the same time they become abominations. And yes, this is absolutely a retcon, because while they clearly hadn't thought that through as of Origins events after the title which first hinted at it (DA2) and the title that truly introduced it (Asunder) have borne it out. Which they have not done with the Templars Becoming Abominations thing. Therefore your only evidence is DA2, which given the way the game is written basically means your only evidence is Varric's word. This is a poor thing to weigh against the Codex, WoG, and WoT. If you don't understand that, I can only assume it's deliberate.

[Yaroub]

The Tranquil are damaged mages who are repaired at the moment of possession by the possession. (Or at least they were as of the retcon.) They become mages again at the same time they become abominations. If you don't understand that, I can only assume it's deliberate.

 

I understand that completely. They were mages - they were made Tranquil - They got possessed turning to both mage and abomination.

 

Templars are essentially Mages - well, sort of. Gaider himself described their abilities as magic, tolerated by the Chantry because it's both useful and not forbidden.

[Yaroub]

The Tranquil are damaged mages who are repaired at the moment of possession by the possession. (Or at least they were as of the retcon.) They become mages again at the same time they become abominations. And yes, this is absolutely a retcon, because while they clearly hadn't thought that through as of Origins events after the title which first hinted at it (DA2) and the title that truly introduced it (Asunder) have borne it out. Which they have not done with the Templars Becoming Abominations thing. Therefore your only evidence is DA2, which given the way the game is written basically means your only evidence is Varric's word. This is a poor thing to weigh against the Codex, WoG, and WoT. If you don't understand that, I can only assume it's deliberate.

 

come on. I don't really follow with this "Varric word". Yes he did narrate the DA2..it's how the game went, am I to discard it because it doesn't follow with previous settings?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I understand that completely. They were mages - they were made Tranquil - They got possessed turning to both mage and abomination.

 

Templars are essentially Mages - well, sort of. Gaider himself described their abilities as magic, tolerated by the Chantry because it's both useful and not forbidden.

A new argument. That's better.

 

It's magic granted by the lyrium. It's not theirs, and if they stop taking lyrium they lose it. (Unlike mages, who only use lyrium when they need extra power.) It's also far more limited than a mage's. In the early games a Templar had a limited amount of power to damage non-casters, even though the lore repeatedly stated or implied they didn't. In Inquisition, this was as far as I remember fixed. In no case did they have the power to summon spirits or shoot giant fireballs or bend someone's bloodstream at an odd angle. The setting definition of mage is "one who has magic innate to themselves, and can do just about anything with it." And while a possessed templar is exceedingly dangerous, it's not a possessed that. (This is getting really technical, but definitions can do that.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

come on. I don't really follow with this "Varric word". Yes he did narrate the DA2..it's how the game went, am I to discard it because it doesn't follow with previous settings?

You are to discard it to the extent that it does not follow with the setting as a whole. At least the bare bones of what happened according to Varric happened. To my surprise, he apparently wasn't even lying about Meredith animating statues. (Although I suppose since the only mention of that in Inquisition is Varric's word again, I suppose there is room for him to still be lying.) But when what he says doesn't make sense in the context of what is said both before and after DA2, you should probably discard that bit.

[Yaroub]

A new argument. That's better.

 

It's magic granted by the lyrium. It's not theirs, and if they stop taking lyrium they lose it. It's also far more limited than a mage's. In the early games a Templar had a limited amount of power to damage non-casters, even though the lore repeatedly stated or implied they didn't. In Inquisition, this was as far as I remember fixed. In no case did they have the power to summon spirits or send giant fireballs or bend someone's bloodstream at an odd angle. The setting definition of mage is "one who has magic innate to themselves, and can do just about anything with it." And while a possessed templar is exceedingly dangerous, it's not a possessed that. (This is getting really technical, but definitions can do that.)

 

It's magic granted by magic. it's their as long as they are using(I still can't make a point on the withdrawal aspect with the reveling of the Titans)

 

They still had Holy smite which is as impressive as any spell from the spirit school. What you are describing is a PC mage while most of mages belong to one of the schools of magic as do Templars - their swords glow as in the primal school. They do possess a good ability to manipulate magic at will.

They tap into the fade in order to cast spells - they do get possessed - they turn to an abomination.

[Yaroub]

You are to discard it to the extent that it does not follow with the setting as a whole. At least the bare bones of what happened according to Varric happened. To my surprise, he apparently wasn't even lying about Meredith animating statues. (Although I suppose since the only mention of that in Inquisition is Varric's word again, I suppose there is room for him to still be lying.) But when what he says doesn't make sense in the context of what is said both before and after DA2, you should probably discard that bit.

 

I sincerely cannot follow with this. DA2 is a main game in the Dragon Age franchise, I am not to discard a single bit of it. especially when you mention WoT, codexes and other novels( I don't know what WoG means) which are also Contradicting each other.

 

Again. If it was meant to be discarded it would've been discarded.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's magic granted by magic. it's their as long as they are using(I still can't make a point on the withdrawal aspect with the reveling of the Titans)

 

They still had Holy smite which is as impressive as any spells from the spirit school. What you are describing is a PC mage while most of mages belong to one of the schools of magic as do Templars - their swords glow as in the primal school. They do possess a good ability to manipulate magic at will.

They tap into the fade in order to cast spells - they do get possessed - they turn to an abomination.

The Titans don't seem to tap into the Fade. And while most mages don't use any and every kind of magic at will, those who are properly trained can learn any of it. For the most part all a Templar can do is block magic and cast Holy Smite, and again: I'm not sure they even can use Holy Smite in the lore. Has it appeared in a book? Or been mentioned in WoT or the Codex?

 

 

I sincerely cannot follow with this. DA2 is a main game in the Dragon Age franchise, I am not to discard a single bit of it. especially when you mention WoT, codexes and other novels( I don't know what WoG means) which are also Contradict each other.

 

Again. If it was meant to be discarded it would've been discarded.

DA2 is narrated by a self-admitted liar who Cassandra catches at it at least twice. When it contradicts something else, it's usually safe to assume the something else was right. It's one thing if this is WoG (usually stands for "Word Of God," though in this case I'm picturing "Word Of Gaider") but World of Thedas is supposed to be the source for understanding canon objectively. Even the Codex has biased and sometimes inaccurate information in it, and this is a feature rather than a bug. But WoT is explicitly fact. That is the whole point. If it says a game we're supposed to understand as Varric narrating a stretched but mostly accurate story to Cassandra used a definition wrong, it used it wrong.

[Aren]

We are told from several sources, WoG being the most weakly canon, that "abomination" means "possessed mage."

 

 

 

 

It's magic granted by the lyrium. It's not theirs, and if they stop taking lyrium they lose it. (Unlike mages, who only use lyrium when they need extra power.) 

 

For that description Flemeth is an abomination as well

 

 

By this definition than   mages magic is not their as well ,since they are using the magical energy of the fade.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

For that description Flemeth is an abomination as well

Arguably.

 

 

By this definition than   mages magic is not their as well ,since they are using the magical energy of the fade.

They need to have their minds mutilated to have their access to it removed, though. The mage is naturally able to use magic. The Templar isn't.

[Aren]

Arguably.

 

 

The mage is naturally able to use magic. The Templar isn't.

It is arguably by the sole base that she was a willing and suited host and that the spiritual being was a soul and not a spirit.

However she share one of the aspects of the abominations ,her life was deranged the moment this merging happened in the sense that she is unable to turn back from her purpose like Anders.

 

Same is for the spiritual warriors,since they can cross the veil and use spirits and their magic at their will and they are not  mages even if the chantry consider them as such