82 réponses à ce sujet

[Abyss108]

 

A chance to use the eluvians and lead the elven people. She reminded him of someone, though we don't get to see who it was she reminded him of. Mythal maybe? And gee, isn't it Solas' plan to restore the elven people? Shouldn't those elves be spared anyway? Or are they not his people either?

 

But do those elves need to die? I would think not if Briala could lead them through the eluvians to safety. Yes?

 

He told the Inquisitor his plans. Tear down the Veil and remake the world using the Fade's magic. And if anyone knowing the exact details is a risk, then why would he have bothered telling Felassan in the first place?

 

She can't lead the modern Elves when he kills them, which he tells you he is going to do in Trespasser. She reminded Felassan of Solas BTW, because the gets through the book by tricking everyone. That's why Felassan is telling her all those stories about the dread wolf.

 

Why wouldn't Solas tell people working for him what to do? Kinda hard to achieve anything otherwise. It's different to telling someone who wants to stop you.

[LOLandStuff]

Zombie Felassan as companion and romance for DA4, pls.

[Gervaise]

I would point out that in fact the Dalish legends did get it absolutely right about the Dread Wolf because he did lock away the gods, so they could no longer aid the elves.   What they may have got wrong is the character of the Creators, although they may well have started off as benevolent leaders and then later became corrupted by power.   Plus not every memory preserved in the old Library was anti-Evanuris.     Those voices seemed utterly distraught at their gods suddenly disappearing and those that realised Fen'Harel was responsible seemed to want to exact vengeance, not thank him for their freedom.   I tend to view the Dalish as the spiritual descendants of the pro-Evanuris lobby, whereas Felassan was from the Fen'Harel camp.  Hence his desire to keep Briala away from the Dalish when she first tried to flee to them.

 

Felassan was just as much a user as Solas.   It seems clear to me that he sent back Briala to Celene because it suited his purposes; he also manipulated that clan, passing on information that would help his cause, and probably even gave the Keeper the idea about trapping some ancient demon in order to find out how to access the eluvians.   However, he started to genuinely admire Briala and it seems at the end he was going to say she reminded him of Fen'Harel.  

 

Cole specifically says that Felassan's "crime" was to consider her as People.    Before Solas encountered them personally, he did not regard anyone in the modern world as People, they weren't real, so to his mind it did not matter if he destroyed the world in order to bring back the one he wanted.    Felassan's mission was to gain control of the eluvians and reactivate them.    Fen'Harel would have been aware they had been re-activated.   He was probably snoozing in some pocket dimension within the network.     Felassan knew that if he confronted the Dread Wolf without the password that he would be killed.   Since they were both Dreamers he realised that the only way to avoid his fate was to stay out of the Fade.   He preferred to confront his leader and pay the price for his disobedience.   Fen'Harel was sad (in the usual crocodile tears way he is sad) about killing him but he admits to the Inquisitor that he is not afraid of getting his hands bloody or sacrificing friends to further his aims.  

 

Whilst Felassan seems a really cool character, I actually think in some ways it was justice for the way he used everyone else.    I know Weakes seemed to deliberately make the clan a bunch of d**ks but the fact remains that Felassan led Celene's party to them, the clan did rescue them from the sylvans even if they seemed hostile after that, Felassan knew perfectly well what would happen if Michel smashed the binding on Imshael, made no attempt to stop him, then calmly walked away while the demons ripped apart the clan in the most horrible way (even Gaspard admitted no one deserved the death they got).    They had served their purpose and so he abandoned them.    An entire community wiped out (although apparently the children were spared because Imshael thought it would be amusing to dump them on another clan to feed).     Bear in mind that he probably was aware of what Solas planned and that Briala's efforts would ultimately be something temporary, but would give her a sense of satisfaction in helping her people.   Even if Briala wasn't killed by Solas in recovering his eluvians, I doubt she'd survive long without the edge that they gave her.   He could at least have warned her that someone else had an interest in them and was planning on destroying the world.   In some ways he was very much like Solas, making small gestures of help in order to make things pleasant for them in the short time they have left, so he can kid himself that he is not a monster.   So actually I'm happy for him to remain dead.

[Aren]

You could make Feynriel Tranquil only because you were in his dream via a Dalish ritual. That's also why a non-mage Hawke and his non-mage companions could enter the dream and why they were unharmed upon waking. It wasn't the true Fade.

Long story short: Felassan is dead.

Look at it another way: do you really think Solas would make his friend Tranquil? That if there was a possibility of that happening, he would strike Felassan down in the Fade?

Non mages can enter into the fade(it happen in DAO twice) dwarf like Varric on the other hand......

[sniper_arrow]

Non mages can enter into the fade(it happen in DAO twice) dwarf like Varric on the other hand......

 

Both Oghren and Sigrun can also enter the fade.

[Barnzi88]

Solas loathes tranquility with a passion, so I doubt that he'd leave someone like Felassan as a tranquil and alive. That would leave him a loose end that could jeopardise the mission, and so he pretty much offed his former friend for good. 

[Aren]

Both Oghren and Sigrun can also enter the fade.

Lorewise it does not make sense.

[greenbrownblue]

 

You could make Feynriel Tranquil only because you were in his dream via a Dalish ritual. That's also why a non-mage Hawke and his non-mage companions could enter the dream and why they were unharmed upon waking. It wasn't the true Fade.

Long story short: Felassan is dead.

Look at it another way: do you really think Solas would make his friend Tranquil? That if there was a possibility of that happening, he would strike Felassan down in the Fade?

Was thinking about Solas hating tranquils, but the original "version" of Solas was much more shady rather than gentle (DA wikia). Also, Feynriel was a dreamer, just like Solas and Felassan are. Also, wikia states that Hawke in Feynriel's dream was in the Fade.

[greenbrownblue]

He ded. He die.

 

What I didn't get about Felassan is who killed him. I thought it would have been Corypheus. But Trespasser seems to imply that it was Solas who killed him. Why? Doesn't really make sense. I can see Corypheus killing him for failing, but not Solas.

Well, Cole says that "slow arrow breaks in the sad wolf's jaws", so we know it was Solas.

[thats1evildude]

Non mages can enter into the fade(it happen in DAO twice) dwarf like Varric on the other hand......

Because they were pulled there by a demon or the Mother's magic. Non-mages cannot willingly send their conscious minds into the Fade.

[Dai Grepher]

@Dai Grepher:  "worthy of death" - you're asking if an ancient elven psychopath considers things like "worth" which I would argue is your first mistake. 

 

Felassan displeased his master... so his master killed him.

 

That people believe the hype Solas feeds them in Tresspasser is on them... not Solas.  The man proves to be a manipulator and deceiver through an entire game and THEN decides to be honest?  Doubtful... he's prideful, but not stupid.  Lying isn't a moral choice to him.  Deceiving the Inquisitor is just the best way to manipulate him/her.

 

So Solas tells you that the Evanuris were the baddies and that he was the great benevolent "Dread Wolf" when... it could EASILY be the other way around. 

 

Here's another story:  Solas trapped the Forgotten Ones and the Evanuris so that he alone could rule the elves... but what he didn't realize is that his prison would royally screw his plans at total domination.  So... now he wants to let down the Veil so he can properly rule and kill the Evanuris so he can be a sole power.  He admires the "idea" of the Maker because he wants to be perceived that way.

 

And I've told you the total truth.  It's not a lie of any sort - I have magical petrification powers to prove how truthful I am.  How could someone so powerful as me possibly lie? 

 

Making the Dalish right about the Dread Wolf would be absolutely stunningly hilarious to me. 

 

Felassan was just the first person (that we know of) to fall in the Dread Wolf's bid for domination.

 

No. I'm basically asking if Solas was a psycho at this point in time or if this is just a rather ugly plot hole. His choice to kill Felassan seems illogical.

 

In which case it seems odd he would spare the Inquisitor who displeases him. If he's willing to kill his own follower for a half failure, then why not the Inquisitor whom he hates and is offended by?

 

Personally, I don't believe Solas. But he is portrayed as logical in the game (he wants to give wisdom not orders), for the most part. He often favors reason. So to have him be the one who killed Felassan shows that he wasn't really logical, or he didn't see Felassan as a person, even though Felassan was basically in the same category as Abelas.

 

That's all possible, but I'm not concerned with that.

 

Seems like a waste to just kill Felassan though. For what purpose? If it was just because Solas was mad at him, well then it speaks lowly of his character.

 

On a side note, why didn't he have Felassan unlock the orb for him? But this is just more proof suggesting Solas was not actually a logical person.

[thats1evildude]

In which case it seems odd he would spare the Inquisitor who displeases him. If he's willing to kill his own follower for a half failure, then why not the Inquisitor whom he hates and is offended by?

 

Again, because he wishes to avoid the chaos and destruction that will result from the Inquisitor's death.

 

And Felassan didn't "half-fail." Solas gave him a mission and he deliberately botched it. He then refused to complete it.

 

On a side note, why didn't he have Felassan unlock the orb for him? But this is just more proof suggesting Solas was not actually a logical person.

 

If Solas himself was too weak to unlock his orb, what makes you think his underling could do it?

 

His actions ARE logical. You are just unwilling to see it.

[Abyss108]

No. I'm basically asking if Solas was a psycho at this point in time or if this is just a rather ugly plot hole. His choice to kill Felassan seems illogical.

 

In which case it seems odd he would spare the Inquisitor who displeases him. If he's willing to kill his own follower for a half failure, then why not the Inquisitor whom he hates and is offended by?

 

Personally, I don't believe Solas. But he is portrayed as logical in the game (he wants to give wisdom not orders), for the most part. He often favors reason. So to have him be the one who killed Felassan shows that he wasn't really logical, or he didn't see Felassan as a person, even though Felassan was basically in the same category as Abelas.

 

That's all possible, but I'm not concerned with that.

 

Seems like a waste to just kill Felassan though. For what purpose? If it was just because Solas was mad at him, well then it speaks lowly of his character.

 

On a side note, why didn't he have Felassan unlock the orb for him? But this is just more proof suggesting Solas was not actually a logical person.

 

How exactly is Felassan supposed to unlock the orb? He doesn't have any power, he's just a normal mage. 

 

Solas tries to be wise and logical, but tends to be very bad at it. It wasn't logical to kill the mages who killed his spirit friend when they only did it because they didn't know better. It wasn't wise to fall in love with a Lavellan. It isn't logical to tell Dorian he has to single-handedly end slavery by himself or he doesn't actually care. Still, I disagree about killing Felassan not being logical. He's a liability if he considers modern Elves people, and as far as we can see, doesn't offer anything that couldn't be offered any of Solas' other spies.The only reason not to kill him to be safe, is because of friendship. 

[Dai Grepher]

At the end of the book. Which you really should read if you're going to be constantly questioning its plot points.

Seriously, you can accept that Solas intends to destroy the modern world, but you have trouble wrapping your head around the idea that he would kill one disobedient servant?

 

I'll stop questioning it when I get a clear answer. I was trying to determine how Solas knew Felassan lied to him. Did Felassan lie, and then admit that he had just lied? Or was Solas there when he told Briala to keep the passphrase to herself?

 

My gripe is that the action seems to fit Corypheus perfectly. Your use is at and end, now die. Of course the game states this was Solas, fine. But in that case I question why Solas is portrayed as some kind of wise character. Not only does killing Felassan make no logical sense, it is wasteful and unnecessary. Also, if he's willing to kill Felassan, who was much closer to being Solas' people, then why save an Inquisitor who offends him? Seems like a plot hole to me.

[Dai Grepher]

@thats1evildude:  I think he's questioning whether the mystery being was Solas... but I think it's pretty obvious it was (at least now).

 

No, I'm questioning his motive.
 

[thats1evildude]

No, Solas was not there when Felassan told Briala not to give him the pass phrase for the eluvians. But when they met at the end of the book, he could tell Felassan was lying about not being able to get the pass phrase.

 

Felassan then refused to carry out his mission, and argued the modern elves should be given a chance. So Solas killed him, because he was nothing more than a liability at that point.

[Dai Grepher]

She can't lead the modern Elves when he kills them, which he tells you he is going to do in Trespasser. She reminded Felassan of Solas BTW, because the gets through the book by tricking everyone. That's why Felassan is telling her all those stories about the dread wolf.

 

Why wouldn't Solas tell people working for him what to do? Kinda hard to achieve anything otherwise. It's different to telling someone who wants to stop you.

 

Yeah but I think the point Felassan was getting at was Briala and the elves were stronger than Solas believed, and that if given the chance they would prove themselves worthy of being considered people. Yet Solas kills him for this belief, and yet allows Briala the chance anyway by allowing her to keep the keystone and phrase. Okay, then why kill Felassan? The story doesn't make sense. It's like the Solas in the book is different from the one in the game.

 

I don't think you're right about that. If she reminded him of Solas, then wouldn't he just say, "She reminds me of you."?

 

But if knowing the real plan is a risk, why tell them at all? And if you're the "trickster god" then why not tell them something false? They don't need to know the end game to know what tiny orders to carry out. Get the keystone and passphrase from Imshael. Oh, Briala has it now? Okay, get it from her. Why? To restore the eluvians and help the elven people. Why else? Felassan didn't need to know about the "something bigger". So why tell him? And if he was trustworthy, why kill him? He didn't say he no longer believed in Solas' plan. He just suggested giving Briala and the elves a chance to be part of it.
 

[Abyss108]

Yeah but I think the point Felassan was getting at was Briala and the elves were stronger than Solas believed, and that if given the chance they would prove themselves worthy of being considered people. Yet Solas kills him for this belief, and yet allows Briala the chance anyway by allowing her to keep the keystone and phrase. Okay, then why kill Felassan? The story doesn't make sense. It's like the Solas in the book is different from the one in the game.

 

I don't think you're right about that. If she reminded him of Solas, then wouldn't he just say, "She reminds me of you."?

 

But if knowing the real plan is a risk, why tell them at all? And if you're the "trickster god" then why not tell them something false? They don't need to know the end game to know what tiny orders to carry out. Get the keystone and passphrase from Imshael. Oh, Briala has it now? Okay, get it from her. Why? To restore the eluvians and help the elven people. Why else? Felassan didn't need to know about the "something bigger". So why tell him? And if he was trustworthy, why kill him? He didn't say he no longer believed in Solas' plan. He just suggested giving Briala and the elves a chance to be part of it.
 

 

He doesn't allow Briala to keep the Eluvians. He overwrites the passphrase so she can't use them any more - he explains all this in Trespasser...

 

 

Felassan was his friend, not just his underling that he ordered around. He didn't expect the "betrayal", he had probably trusted him for who knows how long back when they were fighting the Evanuris. Furthermore, you can't run anything if everyone other than you doesn't know anything about what going on. Why does anyone believe in you if you just order them to follow you for no reason other than "it's a secret~"? How do they know how to react if something goes wrong and the plan needs to change when Solas isn't around? Solas thought he was trustworthy, but Felassan directly told him he didn't agree with Solas' goals anymore, proving he wasn't anymore. The only logical action to take towards someone who doesn't agree with your goals, and has the ability to tell others who can act against them, is to dispose of them.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Dai Grepher:  You won't get much argument from me.  I think Solas is a bit of a mess, and I think a lot of people find patterns of logic where none actually exist where Solas is concerned. 

 

You touch on a point that drives me nuts about Tresspasser... an Inquisitor that promises to destroy Solas should have been destroyed.  Right then and there Solas should have looked down on him pityingly and said:  "I know you would try."  And then proceed to have the mark consume the Inquisitor. 

 

People who want to see Solas as some deep, misunderstood figure of immense wisdom will look at this and say: "Oh, obviously he's showing compassion here."  When, in reality... it's more likely just Bioware plot armor and an attempt to avoid player outrage. 

 

An Inquisitor that wants to redeem Solas should be left alive. Redemption isn't going to happen (except for perhaps self-annihilation) - but Solas would have no real reason to kill an eager pet.  

 

We already know that this elf wanted to get his magical item working... so he gave it to a Darkspawn Magister knowing full well the ritual that would be involved because he expects the Darkspawn Magister to "die in the explosion". 

 

The Dalish tales of Solas as the Dread Wolf paint him as a villain... so him killing Felassan is not at all out of character, unless you want to believe the Dalish tales are all wrong.  They could very well be.  We know the Dalish are more wrong about elven history than right.

 

However, when you look at Solas as a whole... you get tales of his predatory nature in the past AND factual data in the present... which suggests that there is more a chance that the tales are true than they are false.  Had Solas spent his time during Inquisition say... playing Gandhi to the elves of Thedas... then his nature as the "Dread Wolf" would be far more suspect. 

 

As it is, I believe all evidence points to the fact that Solas has always been... then and now... a being devoid of empathy and prideful enough to be megalomaniacal.  To me it makes perfect sense that he kills a someone that displeases him (by screwing up "The Plan")

 

This is why I believe the story he feeds the PC is totally false and a manipulation of the events to try to get you to agree with him.

[thats1evildude]

I don't think you're right about that. If she reminded him of Solas, then wouldn't he just say, "She reminds me of you."?

Because he's killed mid-sentence. Again, read the book.

He just suggested giving Briala and the elves a chance to be part of it.

No, Felassan said, "Let's let them live," and Solas' plan hinges on everyone NOT living.

[Dai Grepher]

Again, because he wishes to avoid the chaos and destruction that will result from the Inquisitor's death.

 

And Felassan didn't "half-fail." Solas gave him a mission and he deliberately botched it. He then refused to complete it.

 

 

If Solas himself was too weak to unlock his orb, what makes you think his underling could do it?

 

His actions ARE logical. You are just unwilling to see it.

 

Yeah, I'm just saying if unnecessary death is something Solas wants to avoid, seems rather contradictory to just off Felassan like that.

 

Okay, what was the mission exactly? Lets start there.

 

Because Solas was too weak to SURVIVE it. Unlocking it was no big deal. It was surviving the explosion that posed the problem. And please, Felassan showed more ability in the book that Solas did at the beginning of the game.

 

Well then you should have no trouble defending his actions.

[Dai Grepher]

How exactly is Felassan supposed to unlock the orb? He doesn't have any power, he's just a normal mage. 

 

Solas tries to be wise and logical, but tends to be very bad at it. It wasn't logical to kill the mages who killed his spirit friend when they only did it because they didn't know better. It wasn't wise to fall in love with a Lavellan. It isn't logical to tell Dorian he has to single-handedly end slavery by himself or he doesn't actually care. Still, I disagree about killing Felassan not being logical. He's a liability if he considers modern Elves people, and as far as we can see, doesn't offer anything that couldn't be offered any of Solas' other spies.The only reason not to kill him to be safe, is because of friendship. 

 

Solas could have showed him how, and then just left Felassan to it while he went to a safe distance. But this is really irrelevant. Solas did what he did. I'm just saying it was a waste to killed Felassan. He could have served in other ways.

 

Well, the mages he wanted to kill because they killed his friend, ignorant or not. I see the logic in that even if I disagree with it.

 

Falling in love caught him off guard. That is emotional. Logic doesn't really factor in.

 

Dorian had accepted slavery as commonplace. It was normal to him because he was raised around it. The notion that slavery is wrong is literally a foreign concept. Solas was only saying Dorian should give a damn.

 

It isn't logical to tell Felassan about the "final solution" if he couldn't be trusted with the knowledge. He was still a talented mage who could have been used to unlock the orb or just as a third-party perspective to give council. I thought Sera was out there, but I still asked her opinion. I mean, Solas professes to commune with spirits and trade wisdom and experiences, right? So why would it be any different with someone like Felassan, who is supposedly in the same kind of group as Abelas. And what does Solas tell Abelas, if he lives? There are other places, other duties. He also hates it if you kill the Sentinels, and blames you for their aggression because you didn't do the rituals. I mean, holy crap, it's like two different characters between the book and the game. And what's wrong with friendship? Felassan was a follower. How are you just going to kill a follower?

[thats1evildude]

Felassan came into Briala's life fairly early and remained her teacher and ally for a number of years. Perhaps the goal initially had been merely to aid Orlais' most highly-placed elf, but at some point, Solas directed Felassan to aid Briala in gaining control of the eluvians and then taking the password from her.

 

Felassan helped her gain control of the eluvian network, but when the time came for Briala to tell him the pass phrase, Felassan told her not to reveal it. He botched the mission. He saw the elves as people, and Solas did not.

 

Yes, Solas wants to avoid unnecessary suffering. But he's still willing to kill as many people as it takes to accomplish his goals.

 

And no, Solas said he was too weak upon waking to unlock his orb. It wasn't a question of survival; he just couldn't do it. But Corypheus was very strong, and so he could do what Solas could not.

[Dai Grepher]

No, Solas was not there when Felassan told Briala not to give him the pass phrase for the eluvians. But when they met at the end of the book, he could tell Felassan was lying about not being able to get the pass phrase.

 

Felassan then refused to carry out his mission, and argued the modern elves should be given a chance. So Solas killed him, because he was nothing more than a liability at that point.

 

Oh. Okay, so he knew he was lying, or thought he was? Either way, pretty bad reason to kill him. But thanks for answering. I'm just trying to get an idea of Solas' mindset in the book.

 

His mission to go back to Briala and get the passphrase and keystone? He refused? Solas ordered him to go back, or Felassan spoke first saying he would not go back to her to complete the mission?

 

How was Felassan a liability at this point?

[thats1evildude]

Solas knew he was lying. Felassan even knew that he knew. And Felassan basically said, "No, boss, I'm not helping you anymore." So Solas killed him, because you'd have to be an absolute moron not to execute a traitor when you're already planning to kill millions of people.

 

And now I'm very tired of constantly repeating myself, so I'm not responding anymore.