15 réponses à ce sujet

[HotStickO'Butter]

So now Solas is Mythal ( I'm assuming this means Flemeth is dead now since she didn't possess anyone and passed her god-hood to Solas ) however in my world state I had The Hero of Ferelden have the Old God baby of the fifth blight and later it was taken from Kieran by Flemeth, making her 3 beings in one. So now Solas took Mythal, we all know that, Flemeth's spirit or conciousness doesn't seem like it went anywhere in the physical world after that so she's dead as far as i can see. So just where did the this Soul of the Old God go exactly? Is Solas really now The Dread Wolf, Mythal, and the Old God of the 5th blight? ( if someone can clue me in on which of the seven old gods it was for curiosity reasons that'd be cool )

[HotStickO'Butter]

OHMYGOD I just thought of something else that totally doesn't match up!! If FLEMETH only gave her power to SOLAS under the condition she pass her god-hood to Morrigan eventually how the hell does that even work if Solas is going to destroy the veil and basically alter every part of the world by merging it with the fade again? Is Morrigan alone going to be spared, besides the elves, or whats going on there? Flemeth obviously knew Solas's intentions and what they would bring so how can she be assured Morrigan will actually get what she intended for her?

[Dai Grepher]

Calm down. Flemeth isn't dead. Mythal isn't in Solas. Urthemiel's soul was passed through the eluvian, likely to Mythal. Flemeth showed Morrigan how to shapeshift into a dragon regardless of who drank from the Well. Solas is the same in your worldstate as he is in everyone else's...

 

Spoiler

...still extra weird.

[HotStickO'Butter]

If Mythal wasn't passed to Solas then what power did Flemeth give him? As for Flemeth being petrified and where her soul went I guess I don't need that spoiled for myself and I'll wait till i figure it out but I would like to know what exactly happened in that interaction at the end of the Main Story campaign if she wasn't passing on the power of Mythal to him.

[HotStickO'Butter]

Sorry if I'm sounding super noob right now but I literally just starting becoming obsessed with the in-depth lore of this game like 4 days ago, I've been obsessed with the franchise for years but now I'm like even more obsessed.

[Big I]

People have datamined the scene between Flemeth and Solas and found some dev comments. What they found was this:

 

Spoiler

This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

 

That is not an interpretation of the scene, but a word for word extract from the game files.

[Dai Grepher]

^And the lead writer at the time said that the dev notes are just a guide, not necessarily canon.

 

If Mythal wasn't passed to Solas then what power did Flemeth give him? As for Flemeth being petrified and where her soul went I guess I don't need that spoiled for myself and I'll wait till i figure it out but I would like to know what exactly happened in that interaction at the end of the Main Story campaign if she wasn't passing on the power of Mythal to him.

 

As far as we know, nothing. All she did was have an eluvian open, which he may have used afterward. The blue energy that left Flemeth's body went through that eluvian, possibly to Mythal. As for Flemeth, she could still be alive somewhere else for all we know. This isn't the first time she's been "slain".

 

Sorry if I'm sounding super noob right now but I literally just starting becoming obsessed with the in-depth lore of this game like 4 days ago, I've been obsessed with the franchise for years but now I'm like even more obsessed.

 

Well, the post-credit scene of Inquisition doesn't show much. Play Jaws of Hakkon, Descent, and Trespasser to find out more, but take Trespasser's reveals with some healthy skepticism. What Solas tells you might not be the whole picture.

[HotStickO'Butter]

Quick clarification, did those dev comments just depict Flemeth herself as the elven god or referencing the spark of Mythal? There is a confusing use of pronouns in that quote thats making it really hard to figure out if Flemeth was just a human that was found by the spark of Mythal or if she something more important before that even happened. Flemeth mentions she was betrayed just as Mythal was and she will seek themselves avenged at all cost, though she seems to lean towards Mythal's vengeance over her own, I however have no idea what could have happened to Flemeth that could be comparable to Mythal if she was just a human. Regardless, it mentions in there that she was aware Solas would need the power of the spark of Mythal so I still think that I need that clarified. I realize Mythal herself may not be in Solas but whatever part of her that spark was must now reside with him and possibly it was Flemeth herself that was the wisp that went into the eluvian. I know this is all wild speculation but from what I've gathered so far I know I can't be very far off.

[Big I]

I however have no idea what could have happened to Flemeth that could be comparable to Mythal if she was just a human

 

Morrigan tells you Flemeth's story in DA:O. When Flemeth was just a human she was married to a bard in what is today Ferelden (I think she lived in Highever) centuries ago. She was beautiful and caught the eye of a noble. The noble offered to take her away from her life and make her his lover. After talking it over with her husband Flemeth agreed in order to escape her life of poverty, on the condition that her husband be taken care of financially. The noble agreed, but after Flemeth went with him the noble had Flemeth's husband killed. Flemeth found out and got really angry. She left the noble and appealed to the spirits for aid in taking vengeance on the noble. What was left of Mythal found her, Flemeth became an Abomination/vessel of Mythal, and then presumably got revenge for her dead husband.

[HotStickO'Butter]

Oh well that's pretty sad... Well besides that basically Solas is just borrowing some of Mythal's power temporarily yet is still solely The Dread Wolf? As for Flemeth I'll just eagerly await a possibly reappearance or dropped hint when I start on the DLC soon.

[almasy87]

Yours are questions to which I am afraid nobody has an answer, my friend

Welcome to the abyss of not knowing exactly what the **** went on in that scene
 

Possible things that happened:

1) Flemeth sent something that looks like a soul (based on the way the OG soul in Kieran is designed, blue shiny wisp) into the Eluvian before Solas arrived. Now what this is, we do not know. It could be:

- The Old God's soul (Urthemiel by the way). I don't know what to think about this though. Why take it away from Kieran and disappear if she wanted Morrigan to have it anyway? She could have just said "Hey my dear daughter, I want you to have it. Here you go. Bye!"
- Mythal's soul. This sort of matches those devs notes, they say she wanted to pass to Morrigan her god-hood and that god-hood is Mythal's soul basically, no?

2) What did Solas take? He clearly took some sort of power from her.. Possible answers:

- Mythal's soul. That would make sense because I think Flemeth per se does not have any "power", and is probably just a (already dead) body which is kept alive by Mythal's power.. So when Mythal's soul is taken away the body dies... Plus when you meet Flemeth in the fade her eyes turn blue when she tries to stops you, and after their encounter suddenly Solas has this "blue eye" power.. whatever you want to call it. BUT! This making sense counters what would make sense in point 1) above...  
- The Old God's soul. If Flemeth instead sent her "god-hood" to Morrigan, then the OG soul was left in her? So maybe he took that? Makes no sense, but it's something to consider maybe.. maybe he just needs a God's power, no matter which god...?

 

 

So yeah that's it.. I don't think we have an answer now and there are different theories. Some people also think that like in Da2 Mythal is able to put pieces of her soul into different objects or bodies (like the pendant Flemeth asked Hawke to carry) and that so she is not completely dead, well her body is but parts of Mythal's soul still are alive somewhere else. That is also a possibilty?

How much power did Solas actually require to get back to his "god" status? If he didn't take any of those two, that wtf did he take? And if Flemeth knew he was coming, she didn't fight back so I have to assume she sort of agrees that he takes this power, regardless of what those dev notes says (they kinda imply she knows he's going too far to help the elves). So if she agrees that he takes a power from her, whch power would she give and which would she send away to Morrigan? 

Who knows?

Plus play Trespasser for extra information about these "gods".. which also still needs more explanation..

Ah, only time will tell. 

Sadly.

Sigh.

*depressed tears*

Bioware hurry up already with the next game!

[Gervaise]

Well back in DA2 she questions why a person only has to be in one place and that "bodies are such limiting things."    She was able to split her essence between her body in Ferelden and the amulet Hawke took with them as an insurance against death, so clearly that is possible.    When Cory appears in the Temple and we flee through the eluvian a spirit rises up to prevent him following that is clearly some of the power of Mythal.   It shoots through the mirror and shuts it off, so when he tries to follow it is shattered.   Where did it go after that?    The spirits from the Well also explain how Corypheus was able to cheat death; once again this is by splitting his essence and placing part of it in the dragon.    Coincidentally, if you go to the ancient shrine instead of the Fade to meet Flemeth, you see the altar had both the humanoid statue and that of a dragon.    It is not clear if the Evanuris were simply shapeshifters who could take on a dragon form or whether they split their essence into a dragon, which given what we know about Cory is a strong possibility.    Regardless, it is clear there is a means by which the ancient ones achieved effectively immortality and Flemeth/Mythal was quite capable of using it.

 

It is still up for debate whether the seven surviving Evanuris are also the old gods of Tevinter.    However, if they were and the dragon forms sleeping underground are their split essence aspect that was imprisoned on the Thedas side, whilst their true form was imprisoned somewhere in the Fade, that could account for both Flemeth's interest in capturing the essence of the old god and Solas' concern about the Grey Wardens killing them.    If the passage through the Grey Warden only prevents the spirit jumping to another darkspawn but doesn't entirely destroy it and instead it returns to the Fade, then that would likely mean reuniting it with the main host trapped there, ultimately making them more powerful.    Flemeth wants to stop this and take the essence for herself, thus making her more powerful, hence teaching the Dark Ritual to Morrigan.    So by refusing the Dark Ritual we could actually inadvertently be making the trapped Evanuris more powerful, whereas by taking it we are helping Mythal have the power to confront them when Fen'Harel releases them (whether she is in him or in Morrigan).    Now that would have a nice irony to it.

[almasy87]

Well back in DA2 she questions why a person only has to be in one place and that "bodies are such limiting things."    She was able to split her essence between her body in Ferelden and the amulet Hawke took with them as an insurance against death, so clearly that is possible.    When Cory appears in the Temple and we flee through the eluvian a spirit rises up to prevent him following that is clearly some of the power of Mythal.   It shoots through the mirror and shuts it off, so when he tries to follow it is shattered.   Where did it go after that?    The spirits from the Well also explain how Corypheus was able to cheat death; once again this is by splitting his essence and placing part of it in the dragon.    Coincidentally, if you go to the ancient shrine instead of the Fade to meet Flemeth, you see the altar had both the humanoid statue and that of a dragon.    It is not clear if the Evanuris were simply shapeshifters who could take on a dragon form or whether they split their essence into a dragon, which given what we know about Cory is a strong possibility.    Regardless, it is clear there is a means by which the ancient ones achieved effectively immortality and Flemeth/Mythal was quite capable of using it.

 

It is still up for debate whether the seven surviving Evanuris are also the old gods of Tevinter.    However, if they were and the dragon forms sleeping underground are their split essence aspect that was imprisoned on the Thedas side, whilst their true form was imprisoned somewhere in the Fade, that could account for both Flemeth's interest in capturing the essence of the old god and Solas' concern about the Grey Wardens killing them.    If the passage through the Grey Warden only prevents the spirit jumping to another darkspawn but doesn't entirely destroy it and instead it returns to the Fade, then that would likely mean reuniting it with the main host trapped there, ultimately making them more powerful.    Flemeth wants to stop this and take the essence for herself, thus making her more powerful, hence teaching the Dark Ritual to Morrigan.    So by refusing the Dark Ritual we could actually inadvertently be making the trapped Evanuris more powerful, whereas by taking it we are helping Mythal have the power to confront them when Fen'Harel releases them (whether she is in him or in Morrigan).    Now that would have a nice irony to it.

All very good points

[greenbrownblue]

So now Solas is Mythal ( I'm assuming this means Flemeth is dead now since she didn't possess anyone and passed her god-hood to Solas ) however in my world state I had The Hero of Ferelden have the Old God baby of the fifth blight and later it was taken from Kieran by Flemeth, making her 3 beings in one. So now Solas took Mythal, we all know that, Flemeth's spirit or conciousness doesn't seem like it went anywhere in the physical world after that so she's dead as far as i can see. So just where did the this Soul of the Old God go exactly? Is Solas really now The Dread Wolf, Mythal, and the Old God of the 5th blight? ( if someone can clue me in on which of the seven old gods it was for curiosity reasons that'd be cool )

Prolly just sent the essence of the Old God thru the Eluvian. 

Sigh... It is weird that if you romance Solas then he kisses you goodbye with Mythal inside him. I hate trios :v ...

[Big I]

Well back in DA2 she questions why a person only has to be in one place and that "bodies are such limiting things."    She was able to split her essence between her body in Ferelden and the amulet Hawke took with them as an insurance against death, so clearly that is possible.   

 

...

 

It is still up for debate whether the seven surviving Evanuris are also the old gods of Tevinter.

 

She's also probably somehow split her essence between her other daughters, the Witches of the Wild. In one of the comics Alistair, Isabella and Varric meet an antivan Witch who looks a lot like Flemeth and seems to know what the possession ritual was actually about.

 

As for the Old Gods, I think they're the Forgotten Ones; the ones who, in Dalish legends, are an enemy pantheon to the Evanuris.

[Addictress]

If the passage through the Grey Warden only prevents the spirit jumping to another darkspawn but doesn't entirely destroy it and instead it returns to the Fade, then that would likely mean reuniting it with the main host trapped there, ultimately making them more powerful. Flemeth wants to stop this and take the essence for herself, thus making her more powerful, hence teaching the Dark Ritual to Morrigan. So by refusing the Dark Ritual we could actually inadvertently be making the trapped Evanuris more powerful, whereas by taking it we are helping Mythal have the power to confront them when Fen'Harel releases them (whether she is in him or in Morrigan). Now that would have a nice irony to it.

Oh...oh my god