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Do you think Bioware will ever go back to the old Origins style of RPG over Inquisition.


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#276
Nefla

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I don't think I can get banned for condescending tone

I dunno, I got a warning for having an overly aggressive tone. It was over a year ago but it's still there watching me, judging me :mellow:

 

... So the model of the quest is overplayed (the models for almost all RPG quests is overplayed, including "go talk with this NPC/go find this NPC". It's not the game mechanics that matters, but what we gain through it, in terms of story or gameplay), but the quest of "an NPC looks for lost child/spouse/friend/lover - and now it's time to deliver bad news" isn't?

 

I've seen the variation of Ruck's quest in at last 3 last RPGs I've played. It's hard to have an emotional impact when I know exactly where the story is going. "Seen this, done that".

 

It's also hard to tie oneself to an NPC I only see for 10 seconds, which is why "poor mother searching for her son" doesn't really do much for me, since I just see writers trying to pull those emotional strings. In that regard quite a few quests that pull emotional strings don't work for me at all in any game, since I know what they're trying to accomplish from storyteller's perspective.

 

I, personally, need more meat on these bones.

 

And you know what? The dying templar in Suledin Keep actually does a little something for me. He was lying there predominantly for expository reasons - to give us an insight into Imshael's methods of turning templars into lyrium abominations, alongside what we discover in the mines. But his confession about being given a choice he would simply not make? It has impact.

It not only reveals the cunning and cruelty of Imshael, but also provides some insight into the dying templar's character: he'd rather die or be turned into a monster than would consciously make a choice that could save him. He died, but in a small way he was triumphant and brought a spark of humanity into people who suffered the fate of being turned into a red templar.

 

This, Addictress, is good writing. Short and to the point, but has many layers in itself, aside from pure exposition.

You say you like a story with more meat (so do I) but...the dying templar one doesn't exactly have that :huh: and you only see him for 10 seconds which you just said you can't feel anything for an NPC in that short time. We've definitely seen a "find the missing loved one and return with the news" many times before but the "guy refuses to submit to evil guy and dies" or the "clear evil demons out of this ___" is extremely common as well. Just because you liked it doesn't make it objectively good writing. When I played that quest I felt "meh, seen it before" and I found it hard to care about some random mook (of which I've been killing by the score for the entire game). If a side quest doesn't have a lot of interaction, an engaging story, multiple outcomes, interesting characters and so on (and IMO this one didn't) then it should at least give me some small roleplaying opportunities to define my character. Even something as small as trying to help the guy (even if it's in vain), putting him out of his misery mercifully, or leaving him to die slowly would have made it more worthwhile to me.

 

For me DA I do a over all better job. I mean i love DA O since is was the first, but ppl always speak about decision that affect the game, but really Origin not do a better job that Inquisition on it. Most of the important decision on Origin become a A vs B situation and have 0 impact on the ending, yeah yeah HoF die or no or whoever kill the archdemon, but no meter who u recruit, u always win. There isnt a fail scenery or something that make Mage over Templar better or Werewolf over elf.

Um...DA:I only has one ending, no choice affects its' ending, in DA:I you always win and every choice in DA:I is an A or B equivalent. There is no benefit of choosing Celine over Gaspard or exiling the Wardens vs keeping them, etc... :huh:


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#277
Al Foley

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I dunno, I got a warning for having an overly aggressive tone. It was over a year ago but it's still there watching me, judging me :mellow:

 

You say you like a story with more meat (so do I) but...the dying templar one doesn't exactly have that :huh: and you only see him for 10 seconds which you just said you can't feel anything for an NPC in that short time. We've definitely seen a "find the missing loved one and return with the news" many times before but the "guy refuses to submit to evil guy and dies" or the "clear evil demons out of this ___" is extremely common as well. Just because you liked it doesn't make it objectively good writing. When I played that quest I felt "meh, seen it before" and I found it hard to care about some random mook (of which I've been killing by the score for the entire game). If a side quest doesn't have a lot of interaction, an engaging story, multiple outcomes, interesting characters and so on (and IMO this one didn't) then it should at least give me some small roleplaying opportunities to define my character. Even something as small as trying to help the guy (even if it's in vain), putting him out of his misery mercifully, or leaving him to die slowly would have made it more worthwhile to me.

 

Um...DA:I only has one ending, no choice affects its' ending, in DA:I you always win and every choice in DA:I is an A or B equivalent. There is no benefit of choosing Celine over Gaspard or exiling the Wardens vs keeping them, etc... :huh:

Actually DA I has something like 9 different endings plus all the variations in the eplilogue plus all the variations in the Tresspasser epilogue. 



#278
Al Foley

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And besides DA O had what? 3 endings? maybe 5?  I mean there was a lot of variation in the epilogue sure, but few endings, and all of them the main character won the day.  



#279
Nefla

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Actually DA I has something like 9 different endings plus all the variations in the eplilogue plus all the variations in the Tresspasser epilogue. 

Really now...not every inquisitor kills Corypheus and has a party at Skyhold with a stinger of Solas and Flemeth after the credits? What do you consider a "different ending," a different LI coming to your room? If we're talking about epilogue slides, both games have those.



#280
Al Foley

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Really now...not every inquisitor kills Corypheus and has a party at Skyhold with a stinger of Solas and Flemeth after the credits? What do you consider a "different ending," a different LI coming to your room? If we're talking about epilogue slides, both games have those.

Each time you 'lose' a main campaign mission you get a different ending telling you how badly you suck and how badly the world sucks because you could not make it.  That counts.  So effectively Inquisition has 9 endings, I think it is 9 anyways, and in 8 of them you lose. 



#281
AlanC9

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No, I want the actual quests to be better...The interesting concepts behind the war table quests highlight the fact that the actual quests are so (IMO)uninteresting. I don't care about the war table itself one way or the other.


That makes sense. Though it's funny that you're ending up spending so much time talking about a feature you don't actually care about.

#282
midnight tea

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I dunno, I got a warning for having an overly aggressive tone. It was over a year ago but it's still there watching me, judging me :mellow:

 

You say you like a story with more meat (so do I) but...the dying templar one doesn't exactly have that :huh:

 

Neither does Ruck or Zerlinda, outside of the basics. I actually got a little irritated that I could just go and have a short conversation with her father to persuade him back to accept her. The believably of the scenario flew right out of the window for me.

 

 

and you only see him for 10 seconds which you just said you can't feel anything for an NPC in that short time. 

 

Yes, and in the span of those 10 seconds he managed to actually do more than briefly expound on Imshael's "gardening" technique. That was my point. Those 10 seconds were used very effectively to communicate at least 3 things at once. Whether you personally think is good or not doesn't change the fact that it was effective, even if purely from technical standpoint.

 

 

When I played that quest I felt "meh, seen it before" and I found it hard to care about some random mook (of which I've been killing by the score for the entire game). If a side quest doesn't have a lot of interaction, an engaging story, multiple outcomes, interesting characters and so on (and IMO this one didn't) then it should at least give me some small roleplaying opportunities to define my character.

 

You actually have 3 or 4 responses you can offer to the Templar, including just coldly ignoring his confession. So aside from providing information and perspective, the interaction actually does exactly what you want it to.


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#283
Nefla

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That makes sense. Though it's funny that you're ending up spending so much time talking about a feature you don't actually care about.

I care deeply about future sidequests being improved. Others have brought up the war table and written lengthy posts about it, I'm not one of them.



#284
Nefla

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Each time you 'lose' a main campaign mission you get a different ending telling you how badly you suck and how badly the world sucks because you could not make it.  That counts.  So effectively Inquisition has 9 endings, I think it is 9 anyways, and in 8 of them you lose. 

A different "ending" or a different epilogue slide? DA:O has the same kind of "you suck" epilogue slides.



#285
Al Foley

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A different "ending" or a different epilogue slide? DA:O has the same kind of "you suck" epilogue slides.

A different ending.  These happen before you defeat Cory and hence aren't 'epilogues'. 



#286
BansheeOwnage

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I don't.  They made their choices, and it's not my problem.  The whole dwarf thing is cliché, you can see it in your day to day life, if you look around, and you can see it in books, movies and games.  So no, I don't have any empathy for "Hi, I was irresponsible, can you help me take care of my baby".

Yeah that's... you know - kind of a requirement for empathy.

 

Each time you 'lose' a main campaign mission you get a different ending telling you how badly you suck and how badly the world sucks because you could not make it.  That counts.  So effectively Inquisition has 9 endings, I think it is 9 anyways, and in 8 of them you lose. 

Holy crap. Reasoning like this is what lead Bioware to claim the ME3 endings weren't "just A, B, C." :wacko:


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#287
Realmzmaster

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Why should Bioware go back to the Origins style> Why not go back to the Baldur's Gate 1 style or maybe NWN style? I like DAI because it is more in the vein of BG1. DAO is more in the vein of BG2 which was far more linear than BG1. For me everything does not have to tie in to the main plot. Let's face it a lot of the sidequests in DAO did not tie into the main plot. The only purpose was for experience and leveling up.

 

There was very little reason to do the Chanter's board, Blackstone Irregulars, Slim's quests, or the mage quests. Why was the warden chasing Gaxkang?

 

Why did the warden have to get all three armies and solve the problems of those factions? Why couldn't the warden just get one or two armies? Why was there no consequence to going to the tower for Connor? Why could not Erl Eamon die and Teagan take over and give the warden an army? He eventually takes over anyway?

 

The same reason for the quests in DAI the developers did not design it that way. Bioware made DAO more linear whereas DAI is much less linear. The main quest in both will always be linear . IMHO, DAI was less linear than DAO. But, YMMV.



#288
Al Foley

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Yeah that's... you know - kind of a requirement for empathy.

 

Holy crap. Reasoning like this is what lead Bioware to claim the ME3 endings weren't "just A, B, C." :wacko:

Yes, no....maybe?  i do not know what to make of this.  The ending of ME 3 had its problems, certainly, and the whole ABC thing was a pretty good joke to laugh at something Casey Hudson said, but the endings of ME 3 weren't really ABC.  They had a vast variety of other problems which is why it was important that we got clarity and closure, and that they fixed the Relays going kablooey.  



#289
Al Foley

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I'm making no value judgement on their exisistance, I am not saying they are good...I am not saying they are bad, it might've been fun, for instance, to have a mini movie showing the events instead of just telling.  But to pretend they don't exist at all is doing the game a disservice, and to pretend the game only has one ending is doing the game a bigger one. 



#290
Drakoriz

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Um...DA:I only has one ending, no choice affects its' ending, in DA:I you always win and every choice in DA:I is an A or B equivalent. There is no benefit of choosing Celine over Gaspard or exiling the Wardens vs keeping them, etc... :huh:

 

wait what? there are consequences all those are list on the epilogue, like if i exile the Warders they will banish going into extinction. If not they will get into a inter fight with Wardens in Wissoup (i cant remember the name).

 

DA O ending are the same the player always win. Scarifies or no u always win. 



#291
robertthebard

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I don't.  They made their choices, and it's not my problem.  The whole dwarf thing is cliché, you can see it in your day to day life, if you look around, and you can see it in books, movies and games.  So no, I don't have any empathy for "Hi, I was irresponsible, can you help me take care of my baby".

 

 

Yeah that's... you know - kind of a requirement for empathy.

 

Holy crap. Reasoning like this is what lead Bioware to claim the ME3 endings weren't "just A, B, C." :wacko:

Allow me to provide you with the whole post, instead of the snipped version, to demonstrate that trying to be cute, or clever, or whatever it was you were going for by snipping my post has entirely backfired.  I not only clarified that I have no empathy for people that make poor decisions, I even went on to clarify that I had no empathy for her making poor decisions, aka being irresponsible.  So, other than a really poor attempt at a troll, what was it you were trying to accomplish there?  All it came across as to me is one of those "derp, wish I could take that back" moments.



#292
BansheeOwnage

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Yes, no....maybe?  i do not know what to make of this.  The ending of ME 3 had its problems, certainly, and the whole ABC thing was a pretty good joke to laugh at something Casey Hudson said, but the endings of ME 3 weren't really ABC.  They had a vast variety of other problems which is why it was important that we got clarity and closure, and that they fixed the Relays going kablooey.  

Sorry, but if you think we actually got "clarity and closure" even after the Extended Cut, I should probably just stop here, since we'll likely never come close to agreeing about this. Also, the relays still broke, even if they didn't blow up systems, which doesn't actually help much when you think about it.

 

Allow me to provide you with the whole post, instead of the snipped version, to demonstrate that trying to be cute, or clever, or whatever it was you were going for by snipping my post has entirely backfired.  I not only clarified that I have no empathy for people that make poor decisions, I even went on to clarify that I had no empathy for her making poor decisions, aka being irresponsible.  So, other than a really poor attempt at a troll, what was it you were trying to accomplish there?  All it came across as to me is one of those "derp, wish I could take that back" moments.

Uh, I didn't snip anything, I just highlighted something in bold. Also, your attitude seems quite ironic to me.


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#293
Al Foley

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Sorry, but if you think we actually got "clarity and closure" even after the Extended Cut, I should probably just stop here, since we'll likely never come close to agreeing about this. Also, the relays still broke, even if they didn't blow up systems, which doesn't actually help much when you think about it.

 

Uh, I didn't snip anything, I just highlighted something in bold. Also, your attitude seems quite ironic to me.

Well I did get clarity.  And certain issues were closed off on.  Only outstanding issue is 'what happens to Shepard'.  Though its kinda fitting on a game that relies on head canons and motivations so much that it would leave the fate of our Shepard essentially open to our interpretation. 



#294
GoldenGail3

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Oh for the love of the Maker - Bioware. Just make a Maker's sake another good game like Origins again - you've already wasted my time twice.
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#295
Abyss108

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The issue with the Mass Effect ending wasn't closure. It was that it consisted of a random character never before introduced that looked like an 8 year old ghost boy saying "Hi, you can trust me, press a button to save/destroy the galaxy" and your character went "OK, makes sense".



#296
Realmzmaster

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I think that Bioware has made three good DA games and several other good games.But, that is just my opinion. YMMV.


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#297
Al Foley

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Oh for the love of the Maker - Bioware. Just make a Maker's sake another good game like Origins again - you've already wasted my time twice.

And here I have never played a bad BioWare game. 



#298
robertthebard

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The issue with the Mass Effect ending wasn't closure. It was that it consisted of a random character never before introduced that looked like an 8 year old ghost boy saying "Hi, you can trust me, press a button to save/destroy the galaxy" and your character went "OK, makes sense".

WHAT?  You mean Marauder Shields wasn't the end boss???  Dammit.



#299
GoldenGail3

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And here I have never played a bad BioWare game.


I should correct myself. "Stop making games based on what fans desire..." Pwease, Ingore us.
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#300
BansheeOwnage

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The issue with the Mass Effect ending wasn't closure. It was that it consisted of a random character never before introduced that looked like an 8 year old ghost boy saying "Hi, you can trust me, press a button to save/destroy the galaxy" and your character went "OK, makes sense".

I disagree. I think those were both issues :P


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