375 réponses à ce sujet

[b09boy]

It's somewhat possible, but Bioware won't be the ones who do it first, if they're the ones who do it at all.  This cinematic style of RPG is popular now, but also is also getting more and more flak, and is not where the future of the genre lies.  I predicted a long time ago that the "silent protagonist" was not a dead feature, but actually the future of gaming, and now, more and more, technology is being released which should make that reality.  Someone just has to put it all together into an ambitious and exposed title.  Seriously, voice recognition software is actually pretty good these days, and now fledgling VR is right around the corner.  While the first big success will probably be something more akin to The Elder Scrolls where exploration is king, I think people will be driven by being the central character within epic stories.

[SonnyKohler]

No.  Video games and the expectations of an entirely new generation of gamers has changed the landscape.  We will continue moving forward this way.  It's about making money and satisfying the demands of newer gamers and gamers that are far more casual in their attitude than many of us old schoolers.  Plus the expectations are so much higher and different than we expected back in the day (kind of sad that 5-10 years is back in the day, but...).

 

Dragon Age has changed as a franchise.

 

Fallout has changed as a franchise.

 

I am sure that even The Elder Scrolls will be very different when their time comes.

 

BioWare has always been very, very good (perhaps the best) at adapting to current attitudes and expectations in their games while doing their best to maintain the flavor of the original franchise.

 

We can all look forward to many improvements and even some disappointments.  It's the nature of the beast.

[Wavebend]

No because consoles

[AlanC9]

It's somewhat possible, but Bioware won't be the ones who do it first, if they're the ones who do it at all. This cinematic style of RPG is popular now, but also is also getting more and more flak, and is not where the future of the genre lies. I predicted a long time ago that the "silent protagonist" was not a dead feature, but actually the future of gaming, and now, more and more, technology is being released which should make that reality. Someone just has to put it all together into an ambitious and exposed title. Seriously, voice recognition software is actually pretty good these days, and now fledgling VR is right around the corner. While the first big success will probably be something more akin to The Elder Scrolls where exploration is king, I think people will be driven by being the central character within epic stories.

Sounds awful. Even if you have voice recognition, the games aren't going to be able to respond to the recognized words. The AI we have now isn't anything like good enough.

I'm not saying that you're wrong,though. Just that it will be awful..

[b09boy]

Sounds awful. Even if you have voice recognition, the games aren't going to be able to respond to the recognized words. The AI we have now isn't anything like good enough.

I'm not saying that you're wrong,though. Just that it will be awful..

You're woefully wrong and behind the times, with no vision.

 

First, we already have household items able to respond to recognized words.  In fact, I bet a majority of people here have objects sitting on their desks right now which can.  Second, not every single solitary phrase has to be directly programmed.  You can have options in deeper dialogue with smaller options available without prompt.  Like being able to walk around a town and say hello to people, or ask for news, or where the closest tavern/merchant/whatever is.  Combat is a big one.  No point and click.  Alistair, protect Morrigan.  Garrus, take position in that tower.  Varric, target their mage.  Everyone, on me.

 

That last simple bit has been done in mainstream games since 2002, let me remind you.

[PhroXenGold]

I have to admit, I don't see what's different enough about the games to warrant making a thread like this.

[AlanC9]

You're woefully wrong and behind the times, with no vision.

First, we already have household items able to respond to recognized words. In fact, I bet a majority of people here have objects sitting on their desks right now which can. Second, not every single solitary phrase has to be directly programmed. You can have options in deeper dialogue with smaller options available without prompt. Like being able to walk around a town and say hello to people, or ask for news, or where the closest tavern/merchant/whatever is. Combat is a big one. No point and click. Alistair, protect Morrigan. Garrus, take position in that tower. Varric, target their mage. Everyone, on me.

That last simple bit has been done in mainstream games since 2002, let me remind you.

So voice recognition for trivial things, but standard dialogue for important things?

OK. This sound clunky rather than awful. And if we're going to go that route, I'd keep the voiced PC for the important stuff. Worked in ME3, I'm told.

[CronoDragoon]

Voice commands for combat have already been done and are terrible, because it takes far longer to say 2 words than it does to click two buttons. There Came An Echo, for example, is based entirely on voice commands for combat. Not only does it have trouble recognizing voice commands, it's a damn slow combat system even with voice shortcuts.

 

[AlanC9]

Even though I usually play on casual or easy and have no need for advanced tactics, I did miss them in DAI as I did like to have certain conditions for particular abilities (AoE targeting and so on). I thought DA2 had fantastic tactic arrangements, paired with the faster combat. DAI brought the combat back down a bit in speed, but completely did away with advanced tactics. That was an unfortunate change.

AoE's a funny example since the earlier Tactics system didn't handle AoEs well at all.

Anyway, I agree with this in theory. In practice, I didn't find that it mattered too much. Given the way efficient DAI play relies on synergies, and the 7 ability limit -- saving one for manually-triggered Focus abilities -- I found the tools we had to be sufficient. Though I guess this mostly proves that DAI tactics are too reliant on your party build.

[Abyss108]

Why would I want to sound like a crazy person screaming at imaginary Elves and Aliens to play a game?

 

"Ashley, shoot him, SHOOOOOT HIIIIM!!!"

 

The neighbours will call the cops on me...

[Al Foley]

Why would I want to sound like a crazy person screaming at imaginary Elves and Aliens to play a game?

 

"Ashley, shoot him, SHOOOOOT HIIIIM!!!"

 

The neighbours will call the cops on me...

And since I work third shift in a house hold which does not...might be very awkward trying to play the game while trying to be quiet. 

[b09boy]

So voice recognition for trivial things, but standard dialogue for important things?

OK. This sound clunky rather than awful. And if we're going to go that route, I'd keep the voiced PC for the important stuff. Worked in ME3, I'm told.

 

Only, it didn't.  Because ME3 wound up a rather unpopular title.

 

Seriously, you think cinematic RPGs are the future of gaming?  That's cute.

 

 

Voice commands for combat have already been done and are terrible, because it takes far longer to say 2 words than it does to click two buttons. There Came An Echo, for example, is based entirely on voice commands for combat. Not only does it have trouble recognizing voice commands, it's a damn slow combat system even with voice shortcuts.

 

From what little I've seen, it actually has little trouble picking up commands.    Aside from that, are you honestly arguing about the slowness and clunkiness of a console strategy title?  Bwahahahahahahaha.

 

But sure, you know what, I'm sure we will forever be stuck with controllers and monitors with absolutely no additional way of interacting with video games.  Because, as we know, the singular way video games can advance is graphically.

 

       

 

[CronoDragoon]

From what little I've seen, it actually has little trouble picking up commands.

Maybe try playing it then, or asking people who have played it. Many complaints about the voice command aspect.    

Aside from that, are you honestly arguing about the slowness and clunkiness of a console strategy title?  Bwahahahahahahaha.

There Came An Echo is a PC game.

[AlanC9]

Only, it didn't.  Because ME3 wound up a rather unpopular title.
 
Seriously, you think cinematic RPGs are the future of gaming?  That's cute.

You've had a reading comprehension failure. I explicitly said that I didn't necessarily think you were wrong. I said that your vision sounded awful. I'm not in the business of predicting the future, and what other gamers like is of no interest to me.

[b09boy]

Maybe try playing it then, or asking people who have played it. Many complaints about the voice command aspect.    

Just watched someone play it.  Didn't see a single flub.  Strange.

 

 

 

There Came An Echo is a PC game.

 

And Bioware primarily makes games for.....

 

 

You've had a reading comprehension failure. I explicitly said that I didn't necessarily think you were wrong. I said that your vision sounded awful. I'm not in the business of predicting the future, and what other gamers like is of no interest to me.

 

You disagreeing with everything I wrote then stating, "I'm not calling you wrong" is rather contradictory.  So I addressed the meat of you post, not the politically correct BS at the end of it.  But if that the point you want to focus on, alright.  Good, I'm glad you agree I'm not wrong.

[Seritath]

I don't know.  I liked Origins well enough but the last thing BioWare should do is go back in time.  Inquisition does so many things better then Origins, all Origins gets right is the side quests, in comparison.  Its antagonists were cardboard cut out 0 dimensional or 1 dimensional, its combat was frustrating and honestly pissed me off at how poorly designed it was at times.  Then not to mention you had a character whose whole entire characterization could be summed up with 'is a drunk' and the protagonist was silent.  Yeah, not a game I would like to play.  Once was enough, and I'll go back and revisit it, but look towards the future.  

Well, while I agree that Origins did get side quests right, I wouldn't say that the antagonists were better. In Origins your antagonists were mainly Logain and the Archdemon, versus (per Inquisition, not DA:II) Corypheus + Lackeys. Theoretically you could say the Templars to that effect as well.

Loghain not only had a gigantic backstory compared to Corypheus (Hero of River Dane, Leader of the Night Elves, Marrics right hand bro, etc.. vs. I was one of THE Magisters who had a brief DA:II look at me I'm unkillable cameo), but was the secondary Antagonist to the Archdemon, who while not having a ton of backstory per the game set up the entirety of the legitimacy of the games plot focus (oh crap, Blights for real) and wasn't explicitly heavy handed.

As far as characters being one-sided, you really want to get into Batman Blackwall?
"GUISE SHUT UP I DID THE BAD THING AND NEED TO ATONE, OH MY GOD THESE EMOTIONS, SO DARK AND MYSTERIOUS" (Plays Papa Roach in the background)

Per the protagonist being silent, you most likely would not be heralding this if the voice actors for Inquisiton didn't do a stellar job compared to how some games get voice acted. Given they were voiced poorly, it would be far preferable for a silent protagonist.

 

Combat-wise the entirety of the system is subjective to playstyle preference, however I would still argue that Origins has the edge over Inquisition. While Inquisition has on it's side the tighter mechanics and more interactive gameplay (which mechanically you can't fault a game for coming out earlier than another), Origins was far more tactically based- even considering the "tactics screen" in Inquisition, which is really only used during the Dead Hand quest in the Exalted Plains. Not to mention the in depth tactics settings in comparison to "favoritable" tactics in Inquisition, it balances and really depends heavily on how you play.

Origins to me also had a more cohesive plotline, less melodrama, and established the setting and characters far better than Inquisition had. That's personal opinion, however.

[CronoDragoon]

Just watched someone play it.  Didn't see a single flub.  Strange.

No, that's not strange. What's strange is you extrapolating based off a single video. Look into something like the NeoGAF OT if you'd like to expand your sample size beyond 1.
 
 

And Bioware primarily makes games for.....

Cool goalpost moving, bro.

[Al Foley]

Well, while I agree that Origins did get side quests right, I wouldn't say that the antagonists were better. In Origins your antagonists were mainly Logain and the Archdemon, versus (per Inquisition, not DA:II) Corypheus + Lackeys. Theoretically you could say the Templars to that effect as well.

Loghain not only had a gigantic backstory compared to Corypheus (Hero of River Dane, Leader of the Night Elves, Marrics right hand bro, etc.. vs. I was one of THE Magisters who had a brief DA:II look at me I'm unkillable cameo), but was the secondary Antagonist to the Archdemon, who while not having a ton of backstory per the game set up the entirety of the legitimacy of the games plot focus (oh crap, Blights for real) and wasn't explicitly heavy handed.

As far as characters being one-sided, you really want to get into Batman Blackwall?
"GUISE SHUT UP I DID THE BAD THING AND NEED TO ATONE, OH MY GOD THESE EMOTIONS, SO DARK AND MYSTERIOUS" (Plays Papa Roach in the background)

Per the protagonist being silent, you most likely would not be heralding this if the voice actors for Inquisiton didn't do a stellar job compared to how some games get voice acted. Given they were voiced poorly, it would be far preferable for a silent protagonist.

 

Combat-wise the entirety of the system is subjective to playstyle preference, however I would still argue that Origins has the edge over Inquisition. While Inquisition has on it's side the tighter mechanics and more interactive gameplay (which mechanically you can't fault a game for coming out earlier than another), Origins was far more tactically based- even considering the "tactics screen" in Inquisition, which is really only used during the Dead Hand quest in the Exalted Plains. Not to mention the in depth tactics settings in comparison to "favoritable" tactics in Inquisition, it balances and really depends heavily on how you play.

Origins to me also had a more cohesive plotline, less melodrama, and established the setting and characters far better than Inquisition had. That's personal opinion, however.

I have not consumed any of the backstory.  I have not read the Stolen Throne.  The information I have comes from Origins and Origins Loghain was very barebones and one dimensional.  If I read the Stolen Throne I might reasess.  

 

Actually I pretty much agree with what someone else said.  Even bad voice acting is better then no voice acting for the protag.  Unless you go the Ace COmbat route and have the protag entirely off camera.  

[AlanC9]

You disagreeing with everything I wrote then stating, "I'm not calling you wrong" is rather contradictory.  So I addressed the meat of you post, not the politically correct BS at the end of it.  But if that the point you want to focus on, alright.  Good, I'm glad you agree I'm not wrong.

Are you quite sure you can read?

Here's what I actually posted:

Sounds awful. Even if you have voice recognition, the games aren't going to be able to respond to the recognized words. The AI we have now isn't anything like good enough.

I'm not saying that you're wrong,though. Just that it will be awful..

You later acknowledged that I was correct in the first paragraph, and that voice recognition will only be used for trivial things. And obviously, I didn't say anything whatsoever about the future of gaming.

And then I said that you might be right about this being the future of gaming, and that it will be awful if it comes true. In what sense is that "politically correct"?

[b09boy]

No, that's not strange. What's strange is you extrapolating based off a single video. Look into something like the NeoGAF OT if you'd like to expand your sample size beyond 1.
 
 

 

So I can start scouring some other forum...or watch MULTIPLE videos from MULTIPLE users who have no trouble whatsoever.

 

Isn't this kinda beside the point in any case.  Even if this one, low production game didn't have adequate technology (which by all evidence I've seen for myself, it does) that doesn't mean said technology doesn't exist, which it quite clearly does.

 

 

Cool goalpost moving, bro.

 

So you getting lost in a conversation equates to me moving goalposts.     Brilliant.

[b09boy]

You later acknowledged that I was correct in the first paragraph, and that voice recognition will only be used for trivial things. 

 

No, I never said that.  You quite sure YOU can read?

 

Shhh, don't bother responding.  Just play your pretty little movies with you lil' controller forever.

[Addictress]

I just think the visual design of Inquisition majorly sucked compared to Origins (the clothing, not the environments, though Val Royeaux also seemed jarring to me)

Those huge wide-brimmed hats in Inquisition are the worst offense I can think of, in addition to the insult that was plaid texture.

[CronoDragoon]

So you getting lost in a conversation equates to me moving goalposts.     Brilliant.

You called There Came An Echo a console game. You were wrong. Instead of doubling down, just move on.

[Seritath]

I have not consumed any of the backstory.  I have not read the Stolen Throne.  The information I have comes from Origins and Origins Loghain was very barebones and one dimensional.  If I read the Stolen Throne I might reasess.  

 

Actually I pretty much agree with what someone else said.  Even bad voice acting is better then no voice acting for the protag.  Unless you go the Ace COmbat route and have the protag entirely off camera.  

 

Well that would be a considerable difference, but as far as I remember even Origins codex explained Logain as the Hero of River dane, though maybe not the night elves leader, though he was Marrics lead tactician. While The Stolen Throne gives him a much, much more fleshed out backstory he was a decent enough character to begin with- far more tangible of a threat than Corypheus. He attacks Haven, and other than that he's a looming shadow that really feels decently removed until Samson/Calpernia gets confronted. Logain, on the other hand, was no only the right hand of the king who betrayed him, he doing so plunged the country into a civil war, sent an assassin after the Warden, exiled the Wardens in general, instituted Slavery, etc...

This is not to mention the fact that Logain has a character ARC, very shallow mind you, but an arc. In the end, even he complies with the Wardens judgement, and shows emotions for his daughter- wicked, horrible as he acted, he was still human. He went from imperial tactitian, dirty traitor, tyrant usurper, to good-intentioned minihitler. Corypheus? Suspected Tevinter Magister, monster in DA:II, better understood monster in Inquisition, halfway through the game disgusting Monster, end of the game insane monster. Calpernia had more development and backstory than Corypheus.

For the protagonist, we have different opinions, but that is fine. I feel that a game of that length with a poorly voice acted protagonist would be like bamboo shoots up the nails. I already had enough problems with the dialogue options being very, very linear in multiple conversations deliniating to the Inquisitor being slower than everyone else, or just stupid or naive in general. With bad voice acting, that game would have been very painful. With none? It would not, I will acquiese, have been nearly as personal or special, however Origins managed to be very personal while having no progtagonist voice acting.

[Dabrikishaw]

I like Origins and Inquisition, so I'd have no problem with Bioware doing either in the future.