36 réponses à ce sujet

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Yet she saved the female Warden despite the fact that she was not part of her plan,so why she didn't saved even the other mage?

[Elhanan]

My guess is that they were killed by the Darkspawn when they stormed the room. After all, the Warden might have taken all of the gear from those henchman leaving a proper defense to be problematic....
 

[SugarBabe49]

You can see the mage companion die when the arrows attacked them. I just thought that it was obvious they were dead and Flemeth is far more interested in stopping the blight which is the reason why she saves a female warden (Even Flemeth says that is why she saves them instead of getting the King).

 

Exactly what is a mage companion going to do even if they did survive?

 

Alistair didn't know how to do the ritual and Loghain had barred the Wardens from entering from Orlais.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

My guess is that they were killed by the Darkspawn when they stormed the room. After all, the Warden might have taken all of the gear from those henchman leaving a proper defense to be problematic

AHhahaahahah!

[Donquijote and 59 others]

You can see the mage companion die when the arrows attacked them. I just thought that it was obvious they were dead and Flemeth is far more interested in stopping the blight which is the reason why she saves a female warden (Even Flemeth says that is why she saves them instead of getting the King).

 

Exactly what is a mage companion going to do even if they did survive?

 

Alistair didn't know how to do the ritual and Loghain had barred the Wardens from entering from Orlais.

I think that FLemeth would have saved Cailan if she could and then asked him to repay his debt just like she did with Maric.

Cailan was valuable to her because he is the only one aside from Maric who has dragon blood to help Yavana while Alistair blood is corrupted.

He was also the king and FLemeth could have used him for her purpose.

[Tidus]

The real reason Flemeth needed the GWs not the others for her  plan in gaining a old God spirit. Not only does she use the warden for that reason she sends Morrigan to get impregnated by one of the wardens.. Morrigan choses the male PC early in the game for her needs.

[Andromelek]

I think that FLemeth would have saved Cailan if she could and then asked him to repay his debt just like she did with Maric.
Cailan was valuable to her because he is the only one aside from Maric who has dragon blood to help Yavana while Alistair blood is corrupted.
He was also the king and FLemeth could have used him for her purpose.

Why would she be interested on a matter that was presumably solved by Maric himself? I mean, they may be mighty witches but I don't think they ever considered a Tevinter moron screwing their plan.

The real question would be: Why the hell she helps losers morons? Back to Calenhad there was no real need to do so, since she was the one who granted him the Great Dragon's blood, why to trust him instead of someone closer and trustworthy? why? none of her daughters was born by then? Yavana had an emo stage on her youth?

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Why would she be interested on a matter that was presumably solved by Maric himself? I mean, they may be mighty witches but I don't think they ever considered a Tevinter moron screwing their plan.

The real question would be: Why the hell she helps losers morons? Back to Calenhad there was no real need to do so, since she was the one who granted him the Great Dragon's blood, why to trust him instead of someone closer and trustworthy? why? none of her daughters was born by then? Yavana had an emo stage on her youth?

Cailan was valuable because he could have prevented the civil war and then be used by FLemeth and repay his debt by convincing a warden to do what she want he was a king afterall but she was not able to save Cailan.

 

 

I presume that FLemeth due to Mythal has the gift of foresight so she know who will not fail,she saw that Calhenad would have not failed that is why she helped him it was the first that he met with the greater chance to succeed same for Hawke.

Though she failed spectacularly at the Darkspawn chronicles with the wager on Alistair who failed.

 

The real reason Flemeth needed the GWs not the others for her  plan in gaining a old God spirit. 

A female GW was not necessary for her plan so why she saved the female GW?

[Tidus]

DF, Flemeth isn't stupid.. She figures the female GW can become friends or lover with Alistair since he's not the brightest light bulb in the building and will help persuade Alistair to do the DR and if that story line carries the female GW does exactly that and Alistair gets to enjoy a tumble with Morrigan.

 

In my games Camine on a tight rope since her and Alistair broke up after the Landsmeet and still cons Alistair into doing the DR. Recall Chasha hates all men and still manages to sweet talk Alistair into doing the DR.

[SugarBabe49]

But it is a hell of a risk to take.

 

The only female wardens in my playthroughs that convinces Alistair to do the DR is the one who romances him, even then - I have a save where she sacrifices herself rather than force the man she loves into doing something he doesn't want to do.

 

All of my other females outright refused Morrigan's ritual, either dying or watching Alistair die (depending on who I am playing).

 

Flemeth says it herself, not even SHE is safe from the Darkspawn which is the reason to why she saves the Grey Wardens.

 

BTW - if you have read the comics, it is clear that Alistair's blood is still valid considering Yvanna wanted him to awaken the dragons while his father was dying. Plus - Calian was already dead by the time Flemeth arrived at the battle so there would have been no point in risking her life trying to save a king that was dead. So I don't think the Joining was that much of a risk to his blood *shrugs*

[Tidus]

It took me 2 games to realize old Flemeth lies through her teeth. You can tell when she's lying-her mouth moves.

 

She has nothing to fear from the Darkspawn since she can change into a dragon and French fry them like she did in DA:2 to save Hawke and his family... Also she didn't save the wardens out of kindness-she wants the OG soul and needs the wardens regardless.

 

I won't allow my wardens to sacrifice their selves.

 

I have read the books but,not the comics.. I keep the books out of my games..

 

BTW. By the time the party reaches Denerim for the landsmeet Camine is tired of Alistair's naiveness , GWs and Ferelden politics. She also wise enough to know the best way to unite Ferelden against the blight is to let Alistair marry Anora and she also knowns down deep Ferelden would never accept a Elf as Queen.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

DF, Flemeth isn't stupid.. She figures the female GW can become friends or lover with Alistair since he's not the brightest light bulb in the building and will help persuade Alistair to do the DR and if that story line carries the female GW does exactly that and Alistair gets to enjoy a tumble with Morrigan.

 

 

That do not make sense because a romantic bond it can be detrimental for the DR not a benefit,without it things are more easy.

No because a female GW can reject the ritual due to this bond 

[Tidus]

DF,If you say so..

 

The power of love is blind as Alistair shows..  What woman would reject a offer that would keep her or her man from dying? None that I know of. Its human nature since nobody wants to die. In other words talking the talk means very little when walking the walk means dying and that's when preservation kicks in for self and their love ones.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

DF,If you say so..

 

The power of love is blind as Alistair shows..  What woman would reject a offer that would keep her or her man from dying? None that I know of. 

Of course they can reject it because of this bond and not send him to sleep with her and give a child to her,that is perfectly understandable.

Sorry but not everyone thinks like you do

[Tidus]

DF,I think you don't fully understand preservation of self and those you love.. When face with death that can be avoid death will lose to life every time. Nobody wants to die or lose their love ones.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

DF,I think you don't fully understand preservation of self and those you love.. When face with death that can be avoid death will lose to life every time. Nobody wants to die or lose their love ones.

I don't understand why you are so attached to those meaningless concepts and at the same time being detached from others that makes you rather close minded.

The death of a warden kills the archdemon spirit once and for all and many players opted to sacrifice one warden to kill it forever and never granted anything to Morrigan and Flemeth and never allowed to Urthemiel to survive.

Sooner or later everyone Dies, life is not eternal and none is immortal that alone makes life inferior to death because one is eternal while the other is not.

That you will live 30 years more it means nothing compared to the eternity of death

[Sifr]

I suspect that Flemeth's goal was always to have the Wardens end the Blight and slay the Archdemon. Having watched the Wardens on the field die due to Loghain's retreat and being savvy enough to understand that any man who'd leave both his King and Wardens to die isn't likely to let any more of their comrades into the country where they might ignore the Blight to instead seek revenge, she foresaw that the only ones that had any hope to averting the Blight were the two Wardens holding the torch up in the tower.

 

Having Morrigan convince Alistair (or the Warden if male) to undertake the Dark Ritual and ensure that the soul of Urthemiel survived was definitely something she had planned for, but I don't think it was the end all, be all of it entirely. Rather it was an outcome that was desirable and to be attempted by Morrigan at all costs, but ultimately it wasn't as important as stopping the Blight was.

 

I think most of us assume that Urthemiel was the priority because of how much Morrigan talks it up, but I think that it's probably the other way around and that the Dark Ritual was only a secondary, optional objective that wasn't crucial to her overall scheme.

[Donquijote and 59 others]

Agree here with or without that soul she continue to pursue her plans ,the archdmeon soul was a benefit for her but even without it her agenda does  not change.

[SugarBabe49]

If I had a choice, I would end my life if that it means my loved ones could continue on living. Don't doubt what a person would sacrifce. I would give up my own life.

 

Which is what most of my wardens do.

 

My Cousland - who romances Alistair - is best friends with Morrigan to the point they are like sister and she does reject the ritual on one save (main one is she accepts it) and she dies so Alistair can live on to be the King she knows he can be.

 

My Amell and Surana are both female, both reject the Dark Ritual. My Amell dies and Alistair dies in my Surana playthrough (who romances Leliana)

 

My Mahariel is female and rejected the Dark Ritual, dying herself.

 

My Brosca is male and accepted the Dark Ritual because he wasn't willing to die for the Grey Wardens and he wasn't going to let his best friend die as well.

 

My Male Cousland - who romances Morrigan, either rejected the Ritual and has a human baby with Morrigan or accepted the Ritual. It depends on what save I want to play.

 

It is quite easy to say no to Morrigan - in fact, most of my Wardens say no because it is the only no that is accepted in the game. They don't have a choice with the Grey Wardens - all of them were conscripted. None of them had the choice when it came to saving Arl Eamon (All of them would have let him die and encouraged Teagan to take up the title). 

 

At the end of the day, they chose what was more important, stopping the Blight - which means giving their life - or potentially cursing a child with a soul of something they have no idea what it is.

 

Plus - we saw Flemeth roasting SOME Darkspawns, she shows up AFTER the Ogre was killed by Hawke. Those were stragglers, they were not the bulk of the battle so we have no idea if Flemeth was truly lying if she said the Blight was a threat to her. Considering Solas' reaction to the Grey Wardens wanting to kill off the rest of the Archdemon in the Deep Roads, it could have a potential dangerous effect. Plus look at the Red Lyrium - it indicate the Blight corrupted normal lyrium so yeah, I am trusting Flemeth when she says the Blight is a threat to her.

 

And No - I don't trust any of the witches as far as I could throw them. They are up to something, Flemeth/Mythal states it herself that she is going to force a change that will reckon the very heavens. Morrigan wants to gain as much knowledge as possible, including the Well of Sorrow. Yvanna wants to awaken the Old Dragons by using the Theirin's bloodline.

 

So my wardens are determined to stop the Blight, if it means giving up their life so Morrigan - and in the end, Flemeth - doesn't get their hands on something so dangerous, they will do it.

[Tidus]

Your logics against the DR is flawed.. Morrigan has her son in DA:I just like Leliana is alive in DA:2 and DA:I even though some kill her in DA:O..Some kill Zevran but,he shows up again.

 

Tidus is no fool and knows dying won't change racism and brutality  against the Elves. He does the DR.

 

Camine sees dying for nothing means shite so,she has Alistair to do the DR..

 

While Chasha  hates men she knows the best way to unite Ferelden is for Alistair to marry Anora and both will be needed in the coming months..She cons Alistair in doing the DR.

 

 

Dragon Flemeth could have French fried the Darkspawn at Ostagar since the Darkspawn is poorly equipped as is noted in all DA books...They rely on numbers and brute force.

[Absafraginlootly]

re: why would flemeth bother saving the female warden aswell as alistair when she can't be used for the ritual

 

In order for the Dark Ritual to be of any use the Archdemon needs to be slain, so it makes sense to preserve as many of the wardens, who are elite warriors sworn to stop the blight, as possible.

 

So since she went to the trouble of flying to the tower to retrieve any wardens there, why would she leave the female warden behind whilst grabbing Alistair?

[SugarBabe49]

For saving the female warden - why wouldn't she save the Female Warden?

 

Take away the Dark Ritual (which most of us do), by only saving Alistair, she had reduced it down to one Grey Warden - and we have seen the Darkspawn Chronicles - it doesn't work, Alistair doesn't win against the Archdemon.

 

By having two Grey Warden - she increased her chances.

 

Now - she may have seen Loghain becoming a Grey Warden (if the Warden chooses that path) but you still lose Alistair either way. If you make him King and marry Anora, conscripting Loghain - Alistair doesn't rejoin the Grey Wardens. If you don't make Alistair marry Anora - he can either call for Loghain's death (if King) or he walks away from the Grey Wardens completely.

 

Flemeth probably knows the Warden (including a Female Warden) is crucial to stopping the Blight so she saves them both.

 

Now look at the Dark Ritual - does Alistair follow through with it in Darkspawn Chronicles? It is implied that he does (since he becomes King and is in a relationship with Leliana).

 

Now look at the Dark Ritual in Origins - Does Morrigan go to Alistair? No. She heads straight for the Warden because she knows it is the only way Alistair will sleep with her. She made no attempt to go to Alistair AFTER the Warden says no, rejecting the Ritual outright. Even if you were to send her away at any point in the game, she still comes back at the end to offer up the 'loop hole' and she leaves the party outright when you reject her.

 

The Warden - especially a female Wardens - pretty much needs to convince Alistair into sleeping with Morrigan, and he does so with great reluctance.

 

So yes, Flemeth is going to save a female warden if it helps to take down the bleeding Archdemon. (beside, it is probably hard to get her revenge if the Darkspawn took over all of Thedas, wouldn't it?) 

 

(By the way - Morrigan doesn't have a child in Inquisition if you chose not to do the Dark Ritual (I have done many playthroughs with saves where my Wardens rejected the Dark Rituals) and most of my Wardens are pretty much suicidal by the time they reach the Archdemon so I don't think you can say what my wardens would do. We all have our own reasons for killing off our Wardens or by having them do the Dark Ritual. Yours doesn't want to die, that's fine. Mine pretty much says screw you to thedas (and the Grey Wardens) and pretty much give up their lives)

[GoldenGail3]

What happens in my world saves.....

Male Warrior Cousland took the DA - cause he's willing to do anything for Morrigan. Including the DA.

Female Warrior Cousland whom romanced Alistair - took the DA, not willing to watch Alistair die nor was she wanting to die when she could be queen (that's a pretty strong inspiration for not wanting to die, I suppose.)

Female Amell pretty much the same as my Female Cousland - romanced Alistair, kept him GW alongside herself.

Male Mahriel didn't take the DA - didn't trust Morrigan's intentions. Died, Leliana romance

Female Surana died, did not take the DA - because she wanted to go out with a bang - left Zevran in mourning over her.

Female Tabris - Alistair romance - left Loghian alive - was sad. Didn't take the DA. Died while grieving for her true love, King Alistair who dumped her.

[Tidus]

Sugarbabe49,Do you import anything into DA:I from DA:O?  

 

The reason I'm asking every DA:I game I played Morrigan has a son.. I use a Xbox360 or my PS3.. The Xbox DA:I was a gift.

 

She talks about "her warden" being on a journey and has a showdown with her mother over Kieran..Even Leliana talks about her warden searching for a cure for the Calling. The sad part is B-W gave poor old Tidus a sex change operation. 

[SugarBabe49]

Tidus - yes. I use the Dragon Age Keep so I can import my characters and their choices (ironically enough, only Morrigan and the Dark Ritual is the thing that is carried through - not even if you chose to lie to Morrigan about killing her mother is even mentioned - seriously, you'd think that would show up).

 

No Dark Ritual import - no child. Morrigan faces her mother at the shrine where you summon the dragon (if you drank from the well). She says she regrets how she and the Warden parted ways.

 

(I have yet to do a import where Kieran is not the result of the Dark Ritual)