58 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanunes]

 

But did they do it well in DA:O? I'd argue that they didn't. The separate narrative arcs rarely interacted with each other in a meaningful capacity, so we're left with a story whose pacing is periodically reset to zero. Hell, when we needed to exorcise the demon from Connor, the game gave us (IIRC) unlimited time to recruit the Mages and come back, killing the plot urgency and soiling the verisimilitude.

 

 

That is how I felt as well, the game didn't feel tied together at all for the different areas feel completely separate until you have completed them all.  I think the reset option is a good descriptor too for the enemies don't become any tougher to counter your improvement from completing the other areas so everything between Lothering and the Landsmeet feel like it is in a complete vacuum.

 

Another example of a lack of urgency is getting the ashes for Erl Eamon for he is reported to be right at the brink of death, but you can take your time to get the ashes to cure him with no notice of the amount of time you take to complete the quest.

[Helios969]

That is how I felt as well, the game didn't feel tied together at all for the different areas feel completely separate until you have completed them all.  I think the reset option is a good descriptor too for the enemies don't become any tougher to counter your improvement from completing the other areas so everything between Lothering and the Landsmeet feel like it is in a complete vacuum.

 

Another example of a lack of urgency is getting the ashes for Erl Eamon for he is reported to be right at the brink of death, but you can take your time to get the ashes to cure him with no notice of the amount of time you take to complete the quest.

Yeah, I would argue in order to maintain any sense of urgency you're pretty much "forced" to follow a significant portion of pre-Landsmeet linearly.  Rumors of Erl's illness at Lothering to Redcliff to Mage Tower back to Redcliff off to find the Sacred Ashes.  Everything else feels pretty nonchalant.  DAO was great for it's day and I'll still take that over DAI which has no urgency outside one or two points, but ME3 kept me engaged start to (almost) finish.  Many smaller blocks with freedom to act then woven together to tell the broader story is best.

[Sanunes]

Yeah, I would argue in order to maintain any sense of urgency you're pretty much "forced" to follow a significant portion of pre-Landsmeet linearly.  Rumors of Erl's illness at Lothering to Redcliff to Mage Tower back to Redcliff off to find the Sacred Ashes.  Everything else feels pretty nonchalant.  DAO was great for it's day and I'll still take that over DAI which has no urgency outside one or two points, but ME3 kept me engaged start to (almost) finish.  Many smaller blocks with freedom to act then woven together to tell the broader story is best.

 

Yeah, as far as player urgency I think Mass Effect 3 was done the best and as much as I disliked the missions that had a timer those added to that sense of urgency.  I think what hurt Dragon Age: Inquisition the most is the fact it went open world and all the trappings of an open world game hurt the player urgency.  To me that is one of the downfalls of being an open world type of game for I can't remember ever feeling that an open world game's main quest line wasn't sacrificed to allow for a game to exist in an open world setting.

[In Exile]

The freedom to play through the game in any order messes with the potential for a useful or meaningful narrative. Bioware's best solution to date is what they did in ME2 (and repeat in DAI but with more user control but really first used in Jade Empire and BG1-2). All quests but the main quest can be done in any order but the main quest has a set order that either triggers automatically or at user leisure. ME1s way of doing it was bad, because it led to a plot that spun it's wheels 90% of the game. Like DAO.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd like to be able to do all of the content in any order.  I don't think there should be a meaningful or even detectable difference between main plot or side content.  And I don't think the developers should care at all about pacing.

 

That said, the DAI design (which is much like ME2 or BG1), which makes the main quest linear but most of the side content available up front, works pretty well.

 

The mistake is in having a linear game overall (ME3, JE), or having the side content neatly spaced along a linear path (DA2).

 

What was formerly the traditional BioWare narrative formula (BG2, KotOR, NWN*, ME1, DAO) does seem to irritate some people.  I never minded it, but I can see why it's not ideal.

 

 

*Actually, the NWN OC was structured a lot like DA2, but each act was structured in the traditional BioWare way.

[EpicNewb]

Yes

 

Making decisions that influence the story is a defining characteristic of the ME series.

 

Seeing Mysterious N7 go through the different locations in the panel leads me to believe play in your desired order will be a feature of the game

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yeah, I would argue in order to maintain any sense of urgency you're pretty much "forced" to follow a significant portion of pre-Landsmeet linearly.  Rumors of Erl's illness at Lothering to Redcliff to Mage Tower back to Redcliff off to find the Sacred Ashes.  Everything else feels pretty nonchalant.

I completely disagree.  The lack of a relevant treaty for Redcliffe made it look wholly optional.  I generally found my Wardens heading back where they were most familiar (Orzammar for dwarves, Tower for Mages, Brecilian for Dalish).  My only Warden that ever went to Redcliffe first was the one who let Alistair bully him into it.

 

A Warden could also choose those missions in the order he thinks will make subsequent missions easier.  Maybe do the dwarves first because you think having the dwarves on side will make it easier to persuade potential allies on later missions.

 

But a linear story takes away these decision-making opportunities, and roleplaying is all about decision-making..

 

And there isn't really any urgency in DAO.  You have a huge task ahead of you that will take months to complete, and there's no way to know if you even have months.  I find the early portions of DAO rather fatalistic.

 

If the world map provided travel time information (like BG did), perhaps that could be used to inform travel choices.  That might add urgency.

[Revan Reborn]

I personally prefer when BioWare experiments with game design. I think being far too linear constrains the player and dilutes player agency. BioWare needs to be as open world and choice-driven as they can be without forcing the player down a certain path.

 

The new Legend of Zelda game (I know it's random) is actually doing something very different by allowing the player to do the dungeons in any order he/she wants, instead of their traditional linear approach (forest temple, fire temple, water temple, etc.). I think this formula could be similarly applied to MEA, especially since the point of the game seems to be colonizing and exploring brand new worlds. Let the player set the path and determine where he/she goes and the story unravels based on the player's choices rather than being forced to go to planets in a certain order.

 

It's something I would have liked to have seen in DAI once the tutorial ended by allowing me to pick whether I go to this territory in Ferelden or if I decide to hop over to Orlais. Players shouldn't just have control over side quests, but the main quest as well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That is how I felt as well, the game didn't feel tied together at all for the different areas feel completely separate until you have completed them all.  I think the reset option is a good descriptor too for the enemies don't become any tougher to counter your improvement from completing the other areas so everything between Lothering and the Landsmeet feel like it is in a complete vacuum.

 

Another example of a lack of urgency is getting the ashes for Erl Eamon for he is reported to be right at the brink of death, but you can take your time to get the ashes to cure him with no notice of the amount of time you take to complete the quest.

For players who believe that the game tells them about the need to secure Eamon's support, and his failing health, it probably makes sense to do the Sacred Ashes first before even visiting Redcliffe.

 

And the enemies in DAO scale to your level based on what level you were when you first arrived there.  So they do get tougher (I don't think they should - I oppose scaling - but DAO definitely does it).