606 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

Wait, what?

You are talking about the species which in 30 years goes from a single solar system civilisation to a galaxy wide powerhouse? To the point where they end up co-rulers of the galaxy, and commanding the entire last ditch effort of the galactic forces to save everyone?

Even the reapers specifically target humanity because of what special snowflakes they are.

Recognize some leaps in innovation had to be made in order to make the game and setting work. Remember, humans were treated as lessers and underdogs in ME1. Nobody liked humans, especially turians.

 

As far as being "co-rules of the galaxy," that was based solely on Shepard's influence, not the fact that humanity is special.

 

As far as commanding the fleet, most of the galaxy's forces had already been wiped out... Turians were hit by the Reapers hard to destroy their military, which is far stronger than humanity's. Quarians were being destroyed by the Geth. Asari had the most reapers hit Thessia, preventing them from being able to offer any aid. I'm not quite sure why you don't realize none of the other species were in a position to actually take the lead. Not to mention, Shepard saved all of them, so they were doing him/her a favor, not humanity.

 

Again, it's like you aren't actually reading my posts. Reapers did not care about humans. Reapers cared about Shepard. They believed the best way to defeat Shepard was to first create a reaper based on his/her race. Then, they determined crippling Earth was the best way to deal with Shepard. It was always about Shepard.

 

However, feel free to believe "humans are special snowflakes" if you must.

[themikefest]

Shepard even found out the red "eye" was a weak point and they just kept pounding on the body lol I wanted to yell "aim for the red eye you dummies!"

 The  rounds that hit the reaper hit it before it opened its bay doors to fire at Shepard and not the firing chamber. It falls over on its side. At that point it appeared destroyed. But BioWare wanted the thing to get back on it feet or whatever. Once back up, its fired on again, but doesn't fall over like the first time. Why? It fell over the first time. What  changed? After it gets hit a few more times, it finally falls over for good

[Laughing_Man]

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I like to think that DA2's poor reception had all to do with its rushed production cycle resulting in a lackluster execution and little relation to Hawke being Bioware's most grounded protagonist.

 

It was probably a mix of a a few things, but the fact that it was rushed certainly didn't help...

[Revan Reborn]

 

To an extent, yes. But humans are still shown to be special independent of Shepard. They win the First Contact War, even though they are newcomers who have just discovered FTL technology while the turians have been the galaxy's top military for a millenium. They get an embassy in a decade instead of the usual century and become part of the Council thirty years after first contact even though some species, like the volus and the hanar, have been waiting for thousands of years while contributing to the galactic community. They invented medigels and carriers, which apparently aliens were too dumb to think about in OVER TWO THOUSAND YEARS of spacefaring civilization. Cerberus is an all human organization that manages to figure out how to bring a man from the dead and is able to challenge aliens in their homeworld like it's nothing.

 

And it goes on.

I wouldn't really say humanity "won." In fact, humanity got massacred and suffered a huge amount of losses fighting the turians.

 

The Council was entirely political. Humans didn't receive an embassy because they were "special." Rather, hanar and volus did not know how to the game. Consider how special interest groups and lobbyists are able to get legislation passed in the US Congress. This is more of the scenario of what happened and not "humans are special."

 

So? All asari inherently had biotic abilities. Salarians created the genophage and were able to disperse it to the entire krogan population. The point is every race has created something for different reasons. What's your point?

 

As far as Cerberus, the writers needed some sort of excuse to kill Shepard and have an organization with limitless pockets bring him/her back. Cerberus was also using reaper technology and were under indoctrination by the time of ME3, so it's not as if humans were actually competing with other races, but rather the reapers were.

 

Again, I think this assumption that "humans are special" is entirely overblown. Obviously, being humans, it's easier to relate and connect to humans. BioWare certainly wanted to make humans have a role in the galaxy. However, the fault lies entirely with Shepard and not humanity, itself. Shepard is the reason there is a human councilor. Shepard is the reason there is a human spectre. Shepard is the reason Sovereign is defeated. It is because of Shepard's exploits that humanity benefits, as a consequence. Heck, even TIM admits Shepard is the best humanity has to offer.

[Gwydden]

The Council was entirely political. Humans didn't receive an embassy because they were "special." Rather, hanar and volus did not know how to the game. Consider how special interest groups and lobbyists are able to get legislation passed in the US Congress. This is more of the scenario of what happened and not "humans are special."

So in over two thousand years, volus and hanar didn't figure out how to "game" but humans did in a few years? I'm not sure I buy that. It would be different if the volus and the hanar just weren't interested in a seat in the Council. One could argue humans are just more on the ambitious side due to biology, in that case. But I remember seeing at least one volus complain about how they didn't have a council seat yet while humans seemed about to get it even early in ME1, before they had done anything to merit it.

 

However, I do agree that without an uber special Mary Sue for a protagonist much of the human specialness would go away. Whether that's a feasible thing to expect for MEA is a different matter entirely.

[Revan Reborn]

So in over two thousand years, volus and hanar didn't figure out how to "game" but humans did in a few years? I'm not sure I buy that. It would be different if the volus and the hanar just weren't interested in a seat in the Council. One could argue humans are just more on the ambitious side due to biology, in that case. But I remember seeing at least one volus complain about how they didn't have a council seat yet while humans seemed about to get it even early in ME1, before they had done anything to merit it.

 

However, I do agree that without and uber special Mary Sue for a protagonist much of the human specialness would go away. Whether that's a feasible thing to expect for MEA is a different matter entirely.

Well, lets be honest, hanar don't come across as the brightest bunch, nor are they exactly expedient in their actions. As if the political process wasn't slow and impractical enough already. Volus certainly are more clever and tend to find themselves in scandals and against the law. But again, there are many reasons why they may have not obtained an embassy before humans. As far as ambition, if you remember, Liara actually tackles this a bit that because humans have shorter life spans compared to most of the races in the galaxy, that they tend to be much more aggressive in getting what they want. I'll leave you to decide if that's just "humans are snowflakes" nonsense.

 

I absolutely agree that Shepard is by far the primary reason for this "humans are special" belief. I don't personally buy it as I believe Shepard is the only reason humans seem remotely special. In fact, with Shepard out of the way and the game taking place in a new galaxy, I doubt humans will be all that special from now on. This is essentially a blank slate for BioWare, so they aren't beholden to follow any traditions since Shepard will have little to no impact on Andromeda.

[aoibhealfae]

Was "humanity/Shepard is special" being so overwhelming in the trilogy? I thought this was largely dependent to the player's agency rather than what the narrative portrayed. I like to play Shepard as a tragic character so I don't really see her being heroic to begin with. Of course, if you take in account of how the Alliance and Cerberus used Shepard as symbolism and military propaganda, you can easily spot those who are enamored with the mythology of Shepard, and those who see the real Shepard as a person, and those who was skeptical and largely unimpressed. I could reason Shepard wanting to save Earth was due to guilt from walking away in the beginning of the game. That guilt could eat me up too.

 

But back to the topic, I could accept that the galactic civilization was under a period of cultural stagnancy. 

[Ahriman]

As far as ambition, if you remember, Liara actually tackles this a bit that because humans have shorter life spans compared to most of the races in the galaxy, that they tend to be much more aggressive in getting what they want. 

Oh please. By that logic krogans should be chill as hell and salarians would rule the galaxy.

[Mcfly616]

Seeing as how fan service is "material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience", the Asari are not fan service. As it clearly states in the Art of the MEU book, they were added in order to include a specific staple of classic science fiction. Their conception had nothing to do with fan requests or an attempt to cater to specific gamers. It was simply inspired by many blue feminine species that came before, from the Twi'Leks of Star Wars to Farscape's Delvians. 

 

The reference to the Art of the MEU caption completely goes against the OP's assertion that they're fan service.

[slimgrin]

Seeing as how fan service is "material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series which is intentionally added to please the audience", the Asari are not fan service. As it clearly states in the Art of the MEU book, they were added in order to include a specific staple of classic science fiction. Their conception had nothing to do with fan requests or an attempt to cater to specific gamers. It was simply inspired by many blue feminine species that came before, from the Twi'Leks of Star Wars to Farscape's Delvians. 

 

The reference to the Art of the MEU caption completely goes against the OP's assertion that they're fan service.

 

But they danced on poles. Get rid of them!

[Gwydden]

Was "humanity/Shepard is special" being so overwhelming in the trilogy? I thought this was largely dependent to the player's agency rather than what the narrative portrayed. I like to play Shepard as a tragic character so I don't really see her being heroic to begin with. Of course, if you take in account of how the Alliance and Cerberus used Shepard as symbolism and military propaganda, you can easily spot those who are enamored with the mythology of Shepard, and those who see the real Shepard as a person, and those who was skeptical and largely unimpressed. I could reason Shepard wanting to save Earth was due to guilt from walking away in the beginning of the game. That guilt could eat me up too.

 

But back to the topic, I could accept that the galactic civilization was under a period of cultural stagnancy. 

Even if you tried to play a complete and utter FailShep, Shepard still got to make galaxy changing decisions 24/7 for no good reason. He got to disobey orders from his superiors anytime he pleased without consequences. He was the first human Spectre, a secret organization spent billions to resurrect him and get him a new ship, and he managed to convince a whole bunch of aliens to follow him into a suicide defense of HIS homeworld. Every member of his crew worships the ground he stands on and constantly tells him how awesome he is. They defer all important, even personal, decisions to him and rarely if ever go against his orders. He has mad persuasion skillz — he could convince people to make major life decisions with little effort and half-assed arguments. He is constantly told how special he is, and how he is the only person who can do pretty much anything in the trilogy. In fact, the entire ME universe revolves around him: nothing happens without Shepard and he affects everyone to massive degrees. He is the single most important person in the galaxy by far. He also is the most badass soldier in the galaxy, unrivaled by anything or anyone; this is something I'd be inclined to forgive, seeing how this is a game where combat is the main mechanic and all, if it weren't for all the rest.

 

In short, he is the Sue to end all Sues, the ultimate fanservice. Asari don't even come close, much as I can't stand them.

[Revan Reborn]

Even if you tried to play a complete and utter FailShep, Shepard still got to make galaxy changing decisions 24/7 for no good reason. He got to disobey orders from his superiors anytime he pleased without consequences. He was the first human Spectre, a secret organization spent billions to resurrect him and get him a new ship, and he managed to convince a whole bunch of aliens to follow him into a suicide defense of HIS homeworld. Every member of his crew worships the ground he stands on and constantly tells him how awesome he is. They defer all important, even personal, decisions to him and rarely if ever go against his orders. He has mad persuasion skillz — he could convince people to make major life decisions with little effort and half-assed arguments. He is constantly told how special he is, and how he is the only person who can do pretty much anything in the trilogy. In fact, the entire ME universe revolves around him: nothing happens without Shepard and he affects everyone to massive degrees. He is the single most important person in the galaxy by far. He also is the most badass soldier in the galaxy, unrivaled by anything or anyone; this is something I'd be inclined to forgive, seeing how this is a game where combat is the main mechanic and all, if it weren't for all the rest.

 

In short, he is the Sue to end all Sues, the ultimate fanservice. Asari don't even come close, much as I can't stand them.

"I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite quote on BSN." - Commander Shepard

 

In all seriousness, Mass Effect should actually be called "Commander Shepard: A story."

[Revan Reborn]

Oh please. By that logic krogans should be chill as hell and salarians would rule the galaxy.

I'm just quoting the game. I believe Liara talks about this in ME1 if I'm not mistaken. Salarians are too hyper-active and anxious to rule anybody. Krogans honestly just don't care enough and just enjoy fighting.

[Gago]

Yea I would mind. Not just because of my soft spot for the hotties Asari but lore wise they are the most advanced and influential race in the galaxy. 

[Ahriman]

I'm just quoting the game.

Yeah, and it doesn't make sense. That's why people don't like that.

[von uber]

Was "humanity/Shepard is special" being so overwhelming in the trilogy? I thought this was largely dependent to the player's agency rather than what the narrative portrayed.

 

From the wiki:

 

Humans are generally seen to be very intelligent, abnormally ambitious, highly adaptable, individualistic and thus, unpredictable. They have a powerful desire to advance and improve themselves, and do so with such assertion that the normally staid Council races have been taken aback by their restlessness and relentless curiosity.

The Earth's economy, while much smaller than any of the Council races, is very powerful relative to their size, and their military prowess is amongst the greatest in the galaxy, despite the fact that only 3% of humans volunteer for the Alliance military, a far smaller proportion than other races. Their ability to engage the turians in the First Contact War demonstrated graphically the potential of human military strength and is therefore a subject of concern for many races, who fear the consequences of another human-turian conflict.

 

Many other species dislike their sudden ascendancy compared to their status as relative newcomers on the galactic stage. Some species feel that humanity is overly expansive in its colonization efforts and aggressive attempts to advance its position in galactic affairs. It took other species centuries to achieve what humanity has done in decades.

 

Also they got an embassy on the Citadel within 8 years of contact. They invented medi-gel and the space carrier. They are also the most genetically diverse species in the Galaxy and thus targeted by the Reapers (according to Harbinger) to make their Sovereign class ship (compared to all the other races).

Let's not even begin to get into the absurdity of Cerberus being the most advanced organisation in the galaxy (even before they used Reaper tech).

[Mlady]

 The  rounds that hit the reaper hit it before it opened its bay doors to fire at Shepard and not the firing chamber. It falls over on its side. At that point it appeared destroyed. But BioWare wanted the thing to get back on it feet or whatever. Once back up, its fired on again, but doesn't fall over like the first time. Why? It fell over the first time. What  changed? After it gets hit a few more times, it finally falls over for good

 

I thought that was a bit odd myself.

[Revan Reborn]

From the wiki:

 

Humans are generally seen to be very intelligent, abnormally ambitious, highly adaptable, individualistic and thus, unpredictable. They have a powerful desire to advance and improve themselves, and do so with such assertion that the normally staid Council races have been taken aback by their restlessness and relentless curiosity.

The Earth's economy, while much smaller than any of the Council races, is very powerful relative to their size, and their military prowess is amongst the greatest in the galaxy, despite the fact that only 3% of humans volunteer for the Alliance military, a far smaller proportion than other races. Their ability to engage the turians in the First Contact War demonstrated graphically the potential of human military strength and is therefore a subject of concern for many races, who fear the consequences of another human-turian conflict.

 

Many other species dislike their sudden ascendancy compared to their status as relative newcomers on the galactic stage. Some species feel that humanity is overly expansive in its colonization efforts and aggressive attempts to advance its position in galactic affairs. It took other species centuries to achieve what humanity has done in decades.

 

Also they got an embassy on the Citadel within 8 years of contact. They invented medi-gel and the space carrier. They are also the most genetically diverse species in the Galaxy and thus targeted by the Reapers (according to Harbinger) to make their Sovereign class ship (compared to all the other races).

Let's not even begin to get into the absurdity of Cerberus being the most advanced organisation in the galaxy (even before they used Reaper tech).

When was a wiki ever a credible source on anything? Not that your quote doesn't speak to Mass Effect. However, I'd give less credence to fan-run websites than I would the actual game.

 

Again, you can continue to go on a tirade about how special humans are. But, if you focus just exclusively on the games, Shepard is the only entity that matters. Everything else merely falls into place because of Shepard's actions.

 

I'm fairly certain Harbinger only wanted to make a human reaper because of Shepard. Whoever said Cerberus was the most powerful organization in the galaxy? They certainly are up there, but I think you are making some major assumptions to continue to assert "humans are special."

[Dantriges]

Wasn´t the final battle at Earth because the Catalyst was there. Now you can argue why would the damn starkid move it to Earth when batarian space was occupied longer.

 

Perhaps starkid assimilitated too much human sci fi recently, where Earth is special and that threw a wench into its decision making process.  

[von uber]

Again, you can continue to go on a tirade about how special humans are. But, if you focus just exclusively on the games, Shepard is the only entity that matters. Everything else merely falls into place because of Shepard's actions.

 

Actually, no. In ME3 Shepard doesn't really do that much - Liara discovers the crucible, gets it to the Citadel - Humanity then takes the lead in building it (surprise!) under Hackett, who then treats Shep as his errand girl.

The only time Shep has an impact are the plot threads from ME1.

ME2 is entirely pointless and does nothing to advance the plot one way or the other - the only thing that comes out of ME2 is the amazing genetic diversity of humanity.

 

Oh and the human reaper, let's not forget that!

[In Exile]

I find the asari the least interesting and most annoying part of the setting. MEA would be much improved without them.

[slimgrin]

I find the asari the least interesting and most annoying part of the setting. MEA would be much improved without them.

 

Please do explain how any other race is more interesting or integral to the lore. Let alone how ME would be improved without them. 

[Laughing_Man]

Please do explain how any other race is more interesting or integral to the lore. Let alone how ME would be improved without them. 

 

I imagine that he would rather see a monogendered species comprised of shirtless muscled gayliens.

That would probably be much less annoying and more interesting. (for him at least)

[slimgrin]

I imagine that he would rather see a monogendered species comprised of shirtless muscled gayliens.

That would probably be much less annoying and more interesting. (for him at least)

 

I think his inner SJW hates them. Just a guess.

[Kaweebo]

Not really. The asari are a staple of the franchise. Removing them would be like removing biotics. They're more than just 'the hot blue chicks', they have actual depth.