I wouldn't mind seeing hermaphrodites any other marginalized minority groups in the game. Video games are a great way to humanize people with differences that we might not encounter very often. It's odd to me that some people are so phobic about gender and sexuality differences to the point of wanting them excluded from games but are perfectly willing to get to know and romance fictional aliens.
2/10 would bang.
2/10 would bang.
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Before that gif fully loaded I thought that was something out of a hentai. I must go reflect on this now or drink until I forget the conclusion was ever made in my mind.
If it meant that I didn't accidentally happen upon discussions like the one on the previous two pages, I'd gladly eliminate the asari from the setting. Sadly, this is the BSN, and I don't think that would be enough.
I honestly don't care either way, but Asari are just giant mary sues. Honestly, I really hope they would move away from that. I found them the least interesting race in the ME universe. They seemed extremely incompetent. Which is just a huge shame because I really enjoy female dominated/ran species. But Asari are really just spank bank. They are literally useless and their leadership entirely too incompetent which never made sense. They live for thousands of years and are highly trained...yet most of the asari you met are just useless blue bodies. Samara was the only cool Asari. I really wish she played a bigger role in ME3.
Um, I'm pretty sure our understanding of biology is the case why an all male race wouldn't work. We have all female species that are capable of reproduction without males on Earth, but the reverse isn't true.
This is absolutely inaccurate. All female species reproduce asexually...so all male would do the same (this is actually not uncommon in fish, so males can reproduce asexually and we have examples here on earth). In fact, one of the major solutions to the Malaria epidemic is to create bio engineered male mosquitoes which when mated with only allow males to survive the hatch. I mean Asari reproduce in a nonsensical way if you are talking about actual science and real life. The way Asari reproduce could easily be possible with males. Asari almost reproduce like fungi...now that I'm thinking about it. Fungi are capable of both asexual and sexual reproduction. Though still they would have limitations irl. Like they wouldn't be able to mix DNA of someone with a different DNA structure than them. So turians and quarians would be out. The way the Asari reproduce is entirely fantasy driven and isn't possible in reality. No reason you couldn't do this with men.
The only reason they went with women is because that's how we function. Women carry babies. But males can carry babies, we have animal species that do. Animals that use eggs can reproduce asexually (almost entirely female species of lizards do this. Contrary to popular belief there are males, they do sometimes mate sexually). We have animals that can even have both parts, flat worms for example fight with their penises to decide who actually births the offspring. Whoever gets their sperm in the hole first is the one who gets to be the "dad". We haven't even gotten into plant reproduction...so yeah basically there is no reason an all male race wouldn't work.
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who is arguing against the inclusion of hermaphrodites? since you seem to still be talking about my post, i only stated the fact that most people would be weird about it if you see how some certain posters are acting on different threads. i never stated that i myself thought of it as weird....
personally idgaf if bioware wants to add hermaphrodite characters
This is absolutely inaccurate. All female species reproduce asexually...so all male would do the same. In fact, one of the major solutions to the Malaria epidemic is to create bio engineered male mosquitoes which when mated with only allow males to survive the hatch. I mean Asari reproduce in a nonsensical way if you are talking about actual science and real life. The way Asari reproduce could easily be possible with males. Asari almost reproduce like fungi...now that I'm thinking about it. Fungi are capable of both asexual and sexual reproduction. Though still they would have limitations irl. Like they wouldn't be able to mix DNA of someone with a different DNA structure than them. So turians and quarians would be out. The way the Asari reproduce is entirely fantasy driven and isn't possible in reality. No reason you couldn't do this with men. The only reason they went with women is because that's how we function. Women carry babies. But males can carry babies, we have animal species that do. Animals that use eggs can reproduce asexually (almost entirely female species of lizards do this). We have animals that can even have both parts, flat worms for example fight with their penises to decide who actually births the offspring. Whoever gets their sperm in the hole first is the one who gets to be the "dad". We haven't even gotten into plant reproduction...so yeah basically there is no reason an all male race wouldn't work.
No, it's not. There is not a single all-male species known to man. If you have evidence otherwise, please share it. And I mean links to credible sites, not just hearsay.
I mean Asari reproduce in a nonsensical way if you are talking about actual science and real life.
You mean Partheogenesis?
https://en.wikipedia...Parthenogenesis
Yeah, totally doesn't exist in actual science and real life. 
The only part that is nonsensical is the mind-melding part.
who is arguing against the inclusion of hermaphrodites? since you seem to still be talking about my post, i only stated the fact that most people would be weird about it if you see how some certain posters are acting on different threads. i never stated that i myself thought of it as weird....
personally idgaf if bioware wants to add hermaphrodite characters
My point isn't directed entirely at you. I do mention your use of the phrase "fetish," which was also used by the poster above you. My post was more of a broad observation of how people treat some sexual orientations but then how they respond to others. I meant no offense. I'm just trying to understand why some concepts are fine, but others are seen as "fetishes" and should be avoided.
No, it's not. There is not a single all-male species known to man. If you have evidence otherwise, please share it. And I mean links to credible sites, not just hearsay.
You mean Partheogenesis?
https://en.wikipedia...Parthenogenesis
Yeah, totally doesn't exist in actual science and real life.
The only part that is nonsensical is the mind-melding part.
You might want to actually re-read what I wrote. I never claimed there were all male species. I said that there are MALES that do reproduce asexually. That's true. Fish are common examples of this (though fish/plants fe/male distinction is relatively low). That's not how Asari reproduce. Asari reproduce sexually at least stated in the games they use the DNA of the people they reproduce with...parthenogenesis is entirely asexual and they wouldn't ever need a mate to do it with because it is creating a clone. Asari are not clones of each other. If they were they would be at a huge disadvantage to ever evolving to be a civilization due to not having genetic variety. This is why most species actually have sexual over asexual even bacteria are developing their own form of sex because of its advantages. Asexual reproduction only works in a non-changing environment. Which is also why many things that reproduce asexually can also do so sexually.
You are talking to an actual biologist fyi.
ETA: Also the common "all female lizards" that most people point to as an "all female species", aren't actually all female. They just have an extremely low population of males. They can also sometimes crossbred with males of a different lizard species.
Yep went back to check the ME wiki is pretty clear that they are NOT asexual. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari So they do not reproduce via parthenogenesis. Not all asexual reproduction is agamogenesis. So that's why I said it really doesn't matter. Plants have both male and female parts as do some fish. The idea of sex/gender is pretty flexible. Asari while appear female obviously can and do create gametes as two asari do reproduce together. So they actually have both fe/male parts. They would have to then be hermaphroditic even though they appear as women to us.
You might want to actually re-read what I wrote. I never claimed there were all male species. I said that there are MALES that do reproduce asexually. That's true.
Then why did you say I was "absolutely inaccurate" when my post was talking about how only all-female species can exist according to our understanding of biology? And I don't care about your examples since they don't disprove anything I said, which you just agreed to.
That's not how Asari reproduce. Asari reproduce sexually at least stated in the games they use the DNA of the people they reproduce with...parthenogenesis is entirely asexual and they wouldn't ever need a mate to do it with because it is creating a clone. Asari are not clones of each other. If they were they would be at a huge disadvantage to ever evolving to be a civilization due to not having genetic variety. This is why most species actually have sexual over asexual even bacteria are developing their own form of sex because of its advantages. Asexual reproduction only works in a non-changing environment. Which is also why many things that reproduce asexually can also do so sexually.
The lore of the game disagrees with you. From the Codex about Asari:
An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis. They can attune their nervous system to that of another individual of any gender, and of any species, to reproduce. This capability has led to unseemly and inaccurate rumors about asari promiscuity.
We even meet an Asari in Mass Effect 2 who says the notion of needing a mate is inaccurate, saying "a bit of radiation would work just as well". Liara also tells us in Mass Effect 1 that physical contact may or may not be involved, and is not an essential part of the union.
You are talking to an actual biologist fyi.
Then you would never have said I was incorrect about their not being an all-male species.
You are missing who my post is pointed towards. This has nothing to do with BioWare giving "preferential treatment." It's the fact that posters on this very thread are suggesting BioWare should give preferential treatment to other sexual orientations while excluding androgynous. This is something I find to be incredibly hypocritical if they want BioWare to be sexually diverse, yet they seem to preclude hermaphrodites because they are a "strange fetish." Perhaps I just misunderstood their point, but it came off as being on the ignorant and close-minded side.
I agree that the fascination with romance can actually take away from the main point of the game, which is the story and the gameplay. That being said, BioWare games are also about companions and relationships, so I can understand why romances are a common sense progression. I was just pointing out people want same sex alien romances, trans-species protagonists, etc. Yet, for some reason, inclusion of a hermaphrodite is somehow crossing the line. My question is "why?"
Then why did you say I was "absolutely inaccurate" when my post was talking about how only all-female species can exist according to our understanding of biology? And I don't care about your examples since they don't disprove anything I said, which you just agreed to.
The lore of the game disagrees with you. From the Codex about Asari:
An all-female race, the asari reproduce through a form of parthenogenesis. They can attune their nervous system to that of another individual of any gender, and of any species, to reproduce. This capability has led to unseemly and inaccurate rumors about asari promiscuity.
We even meet an Asari in Mass Effect 2 who says the notion of needing a mate is inaccurate, saying "a bit of radiation would work just as well". Liara also tells us in Mass Effect 1 that physical contact may or may not be involved, and is not an essential part of the union.
Then you would never have said I was incorrect about their not being an all-male species.
I was saying that because you seemed to think it was not possible to asexually reproduce any other way. Many plants and fish are capable of creating their own gametes and egg. Which allows them to reproduce asexually. Codex can be whatever it wants, but it isn't accurate. Parthenogenesis is entirely asexual reproduction. The wiki clearly states they need a partner. If they need a partner they are NOT asexually reproducing. This is where video game developers need to actually study **** before they use terms. Check your own wiki link Parthenogenesis is ASEXUAL reproduction and doesn't require gametes. They would not need a partner and be exact clones of each other. Which makes it highly unlikely they would ever be able to evolve to the point they do. There is a reason most asexual organisms are fairly simple. I suggest re-reading my last comment as I updated it with more information.
Either way though Asari can defy science so can all male species. There is literally no reason they can't because we already are trending out of the "real world science" and into fantasy. Radiation thing is even more nonsensical LOL. I clarified what I meant I would love it if you would stop putting words in my mouth. Straw man and it doesn't help you any. Most all female species didn't start that way another fyi.
Isn't one of the goals of a BioWare game to be as sexually diverse and open as possible? What's wrong with a hermaphrodite? If we don't discriminate against a transgender, why discriminate against a androgynous?
What discrimination? You're tilting at windmills.
The post I was responding to was asking (not seriously, as it turns out) for some Asari to have male parts that they can use on Andromeda aliens. The poster was referring to fictional aliens, not real life people. It wasn't a request for representation of a real life minority, it was a request for Andromeda to be Rule 34: The Game.
Finally, what reason would there be for any character to discuss what parts they have beneath their pants?
This was the hypocrisy I was seeing. People want to romance asari, quarians, turians, etc. Heck, some want to romance hanar. Yet, for some odd reason, a hermaphrodite is crossing the line? I just find that very odd and a bit of a double standard when they are yelling and hollering for BioWare to add all these diverse romances, yet they are completely against someone who is born naturally (and doesn't have a choice) with both genders. Why the discrimination? Nobody chooses to be a hermaphrodite. Why have they been reduced to being a "strange fetish" when other sexual orientations clearly don't receive that same treatment?
I'd guess hermaphrodites being dismissed as a 'strange fetish' and therefore unsuitable for depiction in video games is just another example in a very long line of examples of people being uncomfortable dealing with what they aren't used to. Too many gamers want to be kept in bubble wrap safely insulated from those that aren't like them. It's just funny in a sad way that so many want those different but real depictions of humans relegated to dark corners where they never have to look but clamor for the strange alien of the week in their bed. 
I've heard so many people describe humans as boring in one breath and in the next hide under their bed when the suggestion of representing different and interesting humans is mentioned. I don't know, I guess exploring human differences under the guise of 'aliens' makes it seem safer for some.
I'd guess hermaphrodites being dismissed as a 'strange fetish' and therefore unsuitable for depiction in video games is just another example in a very long line of examples of people being uncomfortable dealing with what they aren't used to. Too many gamers want to be kept in bubble wrap safely insulated from those that aren't like them. It's just funny in a sad way that so many want those different but real depictions of humans relegated to dark corners where they never have to look but clamor for the strange alien of the week in their bed.
I agree. It's a strange double standard when people fantasize about fictional, make-believe aliens, yet are repulsed by the idea of humans that look differently from them. It becomes hard to take many of these threads seriously when people seem to have an arbitrary standard for how BioWare should push sexuality forward, yet how they should hold it back in other ways. You either want inclusion or you don't. If you are going to include transgender, pansexual, gay alien romances, etc., you may as well include a hermaphrodite as well.
I'm not sure why folks are bringing up the need to show genitalia either. BioWare was able to do a transgender character in DAI, Krem, and we didn't need to see that he had a vagina even though he identified himself as a man. I could easily see a similar scenario happening with a hermaphrodite having been born with both male and female genitalia and how that has come to define his/her life and how he/she moved forward. I think it could actually be a very interesting story if BioWare wanted to tackle it. Certainly, it would be far from a "strange fetish" or something that should be relegated to the "dark corners of the internet."
If anything, I'd argue wanting to have explicit sex scenes with nudity for a turian, krogan, quarian, volus, etc. is more of a "strange fetish" than having a hermaphrodite in the game.
I'm not sure why folks are bringing up the need to show genitalia either. BioWare was able to do a transgender character in DAI, Krem, and we didn't need to see that he had a vagina even though he identified herself as a man. I could easily see a similar scenario happening with a hermaphrodite having been born with both male and female genitalia and how that has come to define his/her life and how he/she moved forward. I think it could actually be a very interesting story if BioWare wanted to tackle it. Certainly, it would be far from a "strange fetish" or something that should be relegated to the "dark corners of the internet."
Agreed. I'm not sure that people are questioning showing genitalia so much as they are saying that the subject shouldn't be included as they can't imagine how it could be brought up organically in the story. Ya' know the old argument from incredulity fallacy. Come on people! Mass Effect is science fiction. I can imagine any number of ways that a hermaphrodite, transgender person or any other minority might bring up these issues. The easiest way to bring it up within the story is to create an alien culture, like ehem, the Asari, with an analogous issue and have your character talk about their similarities, differences, whatever.
Most good science fiction explores charged human subjects under the safe veneer of the genre. Even Mass Effect with all it's action roots touches on important issues. I love that this genre has the ability to bring up these issues. It has the ability to put a face on marginalized groups and normalize them so that they don't have to stay in the fetish closet.
Agreed. I'm not sure that people are questioning showing genitalia so much as they are saying that the subject shouldn't be included as they can't imagine how it could be brought up organically in the story. Ya' know the old, argument from incredulity fallacy. Come on people! Mass Effect is science fiction. I can imagine any number of ways that a hermaphrodite, transgender person or any other minority might bring up these issues. The easiest way to bring it up within the story is to create an alien culture, like ehem, the Asari, with an analogous issue and have your character talk about their similarities, differences, whatever.
Most good science fiction explores charged human subjects under the safe veneer of the genre. Even Mass Effect with all it's action roots touches on important issues. I love that this genre has the ability to bring up these issues. It has the ability to put a face on marginalized groups and normalize them so that they don't have to stay in the fetish closet.
Exactly. I'm not a big Trekkie fan by any stretch of the word, but the original show had a huge impact on 1960s America and how people dealt with race, gender, and other social issues of the time. Star Trek was able to effectively tackle and make a mockery out of how silly racism was in a way that was done with a science fiction lens. It even tackled interracial relationships, leading to one of the episodes actually being banned in the South due to an interracial kiss. I see no reason why Mass Effect can't tackle social issues in a similar way. The only folks that seem to be opposed to such an idea are the ones who seem to be secretly against this inclusion and are too afraid to admit it.
Exactly. I'm not a big Trekkie fan by any stretch of the word, but the original show had a huge impact on 1960s America and how people dealt with race, gender, and other social issues of the time. Star Trek was able to effectively tackle and make a mockery out of how silly racism was in a way that was done with a science fiction lens. It even tackled interracial relationships, leading to one of the episodes actually being banned in the South due to an interracial kiss. I see no reason why Mass Effect can't tackle social issues in a similar way. The only folks that seem to be opposed to such an idea are the ones who seem to be secretly against this inclusion and are too afraid to admit it.
I am against inclusion and not hiding it. Inclusion is worst think you can do if you make game for everybody you make game for no one. I like Miranda butt shots females don't. I want all companions be female and romanceable.
I am against inclusion and not hiding it. Inclusion is worst think you can do if you make game for everybody you make game for no one. I like Miranda butt shots females don't. I want all companions be female and romanceable.
This post isn't directed at you. Rather, it's focused on those who claim to be "advocates" of inclusion, yet secretly only advocate for some sexuality while excluding others. It's far more hypocritical and sinister than just openly admitting you don't want inclusion of any kind. At least we know where you stand and you aren't afraid to admit your opinion. That is something I can respect and take seriously.
I kind of made a reaction comic to something like this. http://the-itchy-bir...-Ahoy-562257387
I would argue our personal wishes for the game should be better directed at certain gameplay elements rather than story.
A writer or writers should ultimately tell a story they want to tell, and I don't think they should have to exhaust themselves in meeting every single demand that ultimately would restrict their creative vision for the game's story, but also ensure that some elements or themes or characters are going to be underdeveloped compared to others.
We can praise and criticize once the completed story is put out there for engaging and reacting with, but we shouldn't make demands of writers. We wouldn't an author writing a sequel to a novel in a series. I don't think we should do the same for stories in video games, just my opinion.
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