606 réponses à ce sujet

[HSomCokeSniper]

I should have known what this thread has devolved into before I started reading.

Why did I still, why...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I should have known what this thread has devolved into before I started reading.
Why did I still, why...

Why what?

[HSomCokeSniper]

Why what?

Why anything. It has all lost meaning now.

[CrimsonN7]

I kind of made a reaction comic to something like this. http://the-itchy-bir...-Ahoy-562257387

 

Love it!  

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Why anything. It has all lost meaning now.

Eh. Let them be.

[von uber]

I honestly don't care either way, but Asari are just giant mary sues. Honestly, I really hope they would move away from that. I found them the least interesting race in the ME universe. They seemed extremely incompetent. Which is just a huge shame because I really enjoy female dominated/ran species. But Asari are really just spank bank. They are literally useless and their leadership entirely too incompetent which never made sense. They live for thousands of years and are highly trained...yet most of the asari you met are just useless blue bodies. Samara was the only cool Asari. I really wish she played a bigger role in ME3. 

 

The only reason the Asari are incompetent is to make Shepard (you) look super competent. Same for all the other races and characters - in reality the Council would have other Spectres investigating or shadowing Shep, and the Asari would at the very least have treated the Reapers as a priority subject (even in secret) - it's what Governments do, contingency planning.

 

In fact the only race to actually do something off their own back and act to safeguard their future are the Quarians, and they still need Shep to come in and save the day (as well as being slapped on the wrist by the writers for doing so).

[Steelcan]

The only reason the Asari are incompetent is to make Shepard (you) look super competent. Same for all the other races and characters - in reality the Council would have other Spectres investigating or shadowing Shep, and the Asari would at the very least have treated the Reapers as a priority subject (even in secret) - it's what Governments do, contingency planning.

 

In fact the only race to actually do something off their own back and act to safeguard their future are the Quarians, and they still need Shep to come in and save the day (as well as being slapped on the wrist by the writers for doing so).

The Alliance begins secret preparations and Wrex's unification of the krogan can also be seen as a form of preparation.  The Turians had Garrus's "task force", and the Salarian STG and several Spectres also mention secret preparations having been made.

 

No such effort is done with the Asari.

[von uber]

No such effort is done with the Asari.

Which is just nonsensical really.
But meh, most of the actions of people in ME are.

[Vilio1]

I guess the preperations of the alliance were so secret that even the defense committee didn't know about them. Seriously though, no government (except maybe the rachni queen) prepared for the reapers, singling out the asari seems a tad hypocritical to me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I guess the preperations of the alliance were so secret that even the defense committee didn't know about them. Seriously though, no government (except maybe the rachni queen) prepared for the reapers, singling out the asari seems a tad hypocritical to me.

The Geth did. When Legion/Legion's body went back to the Geth, they reached a consensus that the Old Machine's return was imminent and began preparing for war. For example the Geth Dreadnought we fight on in ME3 was being built by the Geth to fight the Reapers. 

[Laughing_Man]

The Geth did. When Legion/Legion's body went back to the Geth, they reached a consensus that the Old Machine's return was imminent and began preparing for war. For example the Geth Dreadnought we fight on in ME3 was being built by the Geth to fight the Reapers. 

 

They were prepared to fight machine gods, and yet the Quarians managed to bring them to a point were they considered taking help from that same enemy their only choice?...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They were prepared to fight machine gods, and yet the Quarians managed to bring them to a point were they considered taking help from that same enemy their only choice?...

Yes.

[Laughing_Man]

Yes.

 

Yes, meaning that makes sense to you?

 

The Reapers have an unparalleled cyber warfare capability according to EDI, and the Geth had to be aware of it considering the awe they felt at the power of the mind of  Nazara. If the Geth truly prepared for a war with them, A Quarian cyber weapon should have been an after thought.

 

That said, most likely it's just another plot hole / oversight.

[Ieldra]

About the topic:

 

The absence of the asari would make it more likely that I buy the game. Down with the omnisexual blue-skinned space babes! An alien species that's physically attractive to humans as a rule is nonsense of the first order. I rationalized my way around sh*tloads of worldbuilding and plot nonsense in the ME trilogy, and what did I get for it? ME3's ending. No more. 

 

If the ME team wants me to play their next game, they'd better make a world and story that isn't written for immature children and doesn't make an intelligent human cringe. Among other things, that might make me more tolerant of insatisfactory elements elsewhere.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Not attributing this to all asari, but a large proportion as to the failure to prepare is down to, as Thessia's codex entry states, "the unfocused political structure of their homeworld", being split into varying republics instead of a unified, single government. This makes sense to me, the Council were comprised of just three members representing their respective races, and were bogged down by indecision as to what to do, as were most of humanity as a race save for the actions of Hackett and most of the Systems Alliance. Thinking of numerous republics on Thessia deliberating about what to do would probably plague the asari on Thessia with even more prolonged indecision and inability to come up with a solution. 

 

I'm just defending the asari here, since I agree that them being singled out as an entire race is also a little hypocritical. 

[wright1978]

About the topic:

 

The absence of the asari would make it more likely that I buy the game. Down with the omnisexual blue-skinned space babes! An alien species that's physically attractive to humans as a rule is nonsense of the first order. I rationalized my way around sh*tloads of worldbuilding and plot nonsense in the ME trilogy, and what did I get for it? ME3's ending. No more. 

 

If the ME team wants me to play their next game, they'd better make a world and story that isn't written for immature children and doesn't make an intelligent human cringe. Among other things, that might make me more tolerant of insatisfactory elements elsewhere.

 

I think the absence of such a major race from the game would make me far less likely to buy the game. Would feel utterly contrived to exclude them.

[Ieldra]

I'm just defending the asari here, since I agree that them being singled out as an entire race is also a little hypocritical. 

Why? We have an entire species of blue-skinned space babes, and this is what I don't like about them. Applying my criticism to the whole species is perfectly logical.

[Prince Enigmatic]

Why? We have an entire species of blue-skinned space babes, and this is what I don't like about them. Applying my criticism to the whole species is perfectly logical.

 

I'm just arguing that the asari are more than just that, despite the rather cringe worthy original reasoning for introducing the asari to the game as stated in The Art of the Mass Effect book. They are the most advanced species in the galaxy up until the time of the Reaper War, and while they borrowed a lot from the Protheans in their advancement, the Protheans did intervene in their evolution, early stages what have you, as revealed by Javik when exploring the Temple of Athame.

 

We encounter asari in a whole variety of environments, not just strippers in clubs like Chora's Den and Afterlife. 

There are asari commandos, who command a great deal of respect in the galaxy, going from the reaction to Matriarch Benezia's arrival on Noveria with her own commando unit. There are the Matriarchs themselves, some of the most revered and respected members of galactic society for their wisdom, I could go on.

 

What I'm saying is that by criticizing the asari as nothing more than blue-skinned space babes (and you are entitled to your criticism, this is just me presenting my argument and defense to that criticism), therefore one could just as easily say that the turians are nothing more than stoic militants, and the salarians as weak-willed scientists or something or other, and I would argue strongly for each species having varied examples as opposed to the few we meet at first early on in the trilogy. 

[Vilio1]

I think the absence of such a major race from the game would make me far less likely to buy the game. Would feel utterly contrived to exclude them.

This. And saying that the asari are written for immature children is pretty offensive.

[Ieldra]

What I'm saying is that by criticizing the asari as nothing more than blue-skinned space babes (and you are entitled to your criticism, this is just me presenting my argument and defense to that criticism), therefore one could just as easily say that the turians are nothing more than stoic militants, and the salarians as weak-willed scientists or something or other, and I would argue strongly for each species having varied examples as opposed to the few we meet at first early on in the trilogy. 

The difference is that the turians being stoic militants is not as nonsensically implausible as the asari being physically attractive to humans. I single out a single trait if it adversely affects the plausibility of the whole species. Almost every species being humanoid is already a stretch I find hard to accomodate, but there could be some evolutionary advantage to the basic morphology. As opposed to that, it's impossible to rationalize the asari without exotic assumptions like mind-control. Clearly, when they designed the asari, sex obsession overruled common sense, and that they added more interesting lore on top of the basic concept doesn't make it easier to swallow.

 

Sure, depending on ME:A's setup, it could be difficult to remove them, but I'd be content with minimizing their presence. No romanceable asari would be a good start, though I guess they'd lose their primary reason for existing in that case.

 

@Vilio1:

I maintain my statement that the asari were made to accommodate people who find the presence of sex more important than even remotely believable world-building. And yes, I'll continue to call that mindset immature. I mean, it's not as if you couldn't have sex in such a setting without breaking your world. You'd just have to be a little more inventive. If nothing else, I deplore the lack of creative imagination. It's as if the writers didn't care about their world's plausibility when they designed it. Unfortunately, they were apparently right in that most players don't seem to care either and just want imaginary sex with blue-skinned space babes. And yes, I also call that mindset immature.

[Prince Enigmatic]

The difference is that the turians being stoic militants is not as nonsensically implausible as the asari being physically attractive to humans. I single out a single trait if it adversely affects the plausibility of the whole species. Almost every species being humanoid is already a stretch I find hard to accomodate, but there could be some evolutionary advantage to the basic morphology. As opposed to that, it's impossible to rationalize the asari without exotic assumptions like mind-control. Clearly, when they designed the asari, sex obsession overruled common sense, and that they added more interesting lore on top of the basic concept doesn't make it easier to swallow.

 

I am in agreement with you on the initial traits, design elements of the asari when they were being implemented into the game.

 

But when I first played the game and started being introduced to the asari as a species via the Codex and meeting them on the Citadel, my first initial thought wasn't they were added into the game to be physically attractive. Even meeting the Consort, and chalk this up to my naivety here, I didn't immediately presume what a lot of others did and that she was a prostitute. I saw the resemblance in their presentation and description of services to that of geishas. 

 

It wasn't until I read the Art of the Mass Effect Universe that I learned that being physically attractive was the initial reasoning behind adding them, much like adding and designing the turians because they wanted, and I quote, "a birdlike species" and for the salarians a "gray alien". I found the rationale behind the asari slightly juvenile. 

 

But because the book is about the art, the initial concept, I don't have a remaining issue with it, since by the time we play the game we are introduced to more complex, richly written species (my opinion here on richly written). And when I met Liara, I didn't think of her as nothing more than a physically attractive blue space alien, I saw her as a character, like all the species and characters.

 

I agree that the physical attractiveness side of the asari is a tad juvenile, and sexual obsession among most species implausible, but implausibility exists throughout the series, and it doesn't stop me from still enjoying those elements as well as appreciating and liking the asari as a species who were designed to initially be attractive yes, but remain to me to be a formidable, complex, and iconic race of the series that I couldn't imagine without, not because I find them attractive (I personally don't) but because I love their culture, their intelligence and them having given us some memorable characters beyond the squadmates, Aethytha, Aria, even the commandos and snipers we encountered on Thessia stood out for me personally. 

[KaiserShep]

About the topic:

 

The absence of the asari would make it more likely that I buy the game. Down with the omnisexual blue-skinned space babes! An alien species that's physically attractive to humans as a rule is nonsense of the first order. I rationalized my way around sh*tloads of worldbuilding and plot nonsense in the ME trilogy, and what did I get for it? ME3's ending. No more. 

 

If the ME team wants me to play their next game, they'd better make a world and story that isn't written for immature children and doesn't make an intelligent human cringe. Among other things, that might make me more tolerant of insatisfactory elements elsewhere.

 

 

I couldn't disagree more with this. Let's be honest here. Mass Effect is in no way a "hard" scifi setting. It may have lots of explanations for various things, but that doesn't make it any less nonsense. And frankly, when things like Star Wars and Star Trek exist, Mass Effect is arguably the least offensive among space operas when it comes to plausibly mixing alien races together in a galactic community. I mean, these settings seem to have more planets that are universally hospitable to the various races' physiology than reality could possibly offer. 

 

Whatever the asari were in the initial design, and whatever the reasoning behind their creation, none of that sh*t matters anymore. They became so many different kinds of characters that were more than just for sex appeal, from crime bosses to annoying henchmen and corrupt bureaucrats. I would consider the exclusion of any race that's become a fixture of the series just to smooth out the setting for picky people to be totally unacceptable. Nuts to the haters. May the blue babes live forever. 

[Ieldra]

@Prince E:

In the end, there's no arguing with preferences, and of course people value different aspects of their stories differently from me, so your perspective on this is as valid as mine.

 

It's also true that ME is full of nonsense. It's just that (1) none that other nonsense is as visible as this, and (2) I admit it's sort of pet peeve for me, since of all the sciences, it's mostly biology writers treat as irrelevant (not only with regard to sex, just note how supposedly knowledgeable characters talk about genetics. Cringe-worthy I say) with no sufficient reason. In a space opera setting, there's no way around softer science, especially with regard to FTL travel, but that's no reason to leave all standards by the wayside, even where it isn't necessary.

 

As for the asari in ME:A, for that reason I'd prefer a presence as low-key as possible, but if the story enhanced the more interesting attributes of the species and tried to make me forget the sex-related stuff, that would work, too. At this point, it's unlikely I'll buy the game before I've seen some LP videos (I don't trust the ME team's storytelling) but we'll see.

[Prince Enigmatic]

As for the asari in ME:A, for that reason I'd prefer a presence as low-key as possible, but if the story enhanced the more interesting attributes of the species and tried to make me forget the sex-related stuff, that would work, too.

 

I'd like to see that as well, and to a certain extent I felt there was less of it in ME:3, despite the occasional throw away jokes and bits of dialogue like Joker's quip after Thessia, which to me personally was the one and only time I didn't like Joker and felt he was out of line, but that's what makes a good character sometimes, when you don't agree with every decision or opinion. 

 

I feel though with whatever ME:A gives us plot wise, it'll present an opportunity to expand upon the species a little bit more, since they're in a new galaxy and situation and what not. This alone for me stands why I personally wouldn't want any race to be excluded, though it is up for debate as to whether all previous races will appear, and in what context and screen time, though it is fair to assume that the major races like the asari, turians and salarians will make an appearance in some capacity.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, meaning that makes sense to you?

 

The Reapers have an unparalleled cyber warfare capability according to EDI, and the Geth had to be aware of it considering the awe they felt at the power of the mind of  Nazara. If the Geth truly prepared for a war with them, A Quarian cyber weapon should have been an after thought.

 

That said, most likely it's just another plot hole / oversight.

Just because you can prepare for war with the Reapers doesn't mean you will do well against them. We see this several times throughout the series. Hackett was preparing for war with the Reapers, yet his fleets got smashed without a second thought from them. The Council was prepared for war against Saren and the Heretics, yet Sovereign literally bulldozed through them.