19 réponses à ce sujet

[bigp456]

Hello all,

I just finished my nightmare run thru of Inquisition and had a wonderful time playing the game. I know think I am knowledgeable enough for the trials, but I don't want to spend 5-10 times fighting each mission. The DLC's were fun and the right amount of challenging for me. I don't want to spend a ton of time in tactical menus like I had to in DLC. I have no problem abusing certain traits (potions, combat roll, certain gear etc)

So I am looking for build ideas to complete the game with Even ground, Walk softly, Rest Easy, Travel Light, and Grizzly End.

I would like to play as a rogue rest is what you guys think are best CPU builds etc

Is it possible to play as 3 rouges and a tank?
Me, Cole, Sera, and blackwall?

Or would a blackwall, cole, me, Vivenee work better?

[Bigdawg13]

I found Cassandra better (by far) than Blackwall on harder difficulties.  Her spell purge is amazing when you have walk softly on.  Those elite barriers are a pain to get around otherwise.  Plus if you spec her right, I found her more durable than Blackwall.  Wrath of Heaven can heal her and AoE stun (that's control).  Plus you can give her the AoE Fear (can't remember it's name, but every warrior can have it). 

 

The only run I made with nightmare and those trials on, was as a rogue tempest.  I alternated between archer and DW to keep it interesting, but ultimately found DW more satisfying.  The time slow down was clutch for those "uh oh" moments.  And with flask of frost I could survive most things and get easy cross-class combos.

 

I don't recommend 3 rogues.  It can be done, but I think having an extra dispel will make the game more enjoyable.  Walk Softly and mage barriers are beastly to get rid of without it IMHO.  Plus you'll want to take down the occasional mage barrier anyways.  I almost always took Dorian because of his slow-motion focus.  However, with Rest Easy that may not be so dependable. 

Honestly I felt the AI was horrible at rogue control.  Every non-rogue play through they were there primarily as support and setup cross-class combos.  As a rogue, I'd rather bring another mage for extra control and cross-class combo setups.

[PapaCharlie9]

but I don't want to spend 5-10 times fighting each mission
...
So I am looking for build ideas to complete the game with Even ground, Walk softly, Rest Easy, Travel Light, and Grizzly End.

I don't think that's possible with a full party, at least not in the early game. Even if you fully exploit the Golden Nug, the combination of Walk Softly + Travel Light pretty much guarantees a few full party wipe/reloads for Champions of the Just or In Hushed Whispers.

That said, if you did those quests solo, you should be able to pull it off. The problem is your AI driven party sucking down your irreplaceable healing. If you ditch the party, you'll be able to manage your healing resources and survive.
 
On the downside, if you are a solo rogue and you run into a promoted enemy with infinite barrier regen, you may need to reload anyway, since you might not be able to kill it. I ran into two promoted mages, each with infinite barrier and some kind of one-shot AoE attack that wiped my party four times before I finally got lucky and survived the first 5 seconds of combat. It then took another 20 minutes to kill both of them -- and that's with a full party with two mages doing dispels.
 
I suppose you could set potion reserves to maximum for party members. That might stop them from sucking down. They'll run around with 1 hitpoint for most of the quest, but that might be enough to get a couple of dispels in before they take another dirt nap.

Alternatively, you can just turn off Travel Light during those quests. Then a full party should be fine.

Use your best schematics from GN, even if you only have Tier 1 mats. Before Skyhold, spend some time getting better mats, by farming The Storm Coast and Forbidden Oasis. Alternatively, loot the best non-crafted gear available before Skyhold, like the Bane of Red Crossing bow.
 
After Skyhold, you can just farm gold and buy stuff from the Black Emporium. You can open it sooner, but the mats offered for sale scale to your XP level, so you have to level up first to get access to Tier 3 and higher.
 
Make sure you get the spare slot for grenades and extra potions Perks ASAP. Use the GN to make Mighty Offense tonic for all non-mages and upgrade the heck out of it. Same with grenades, Antivan Fire and Bees. Those grenades are like having an extra DPS party member, since they both DoT, and Bees stick with the target.
 

I would like to play as a rogue rest is what you guys think are best CPU builds etc
 
Is it possible to play as 3 rouges and an archer? 
Me, Cole, Sera, and blackwall? 
 
Or would a blackwall, cole, me, Vivenee work better?

Archers are Rogues.

If you want to avoid wipe reloads, take two mages and a Templar and give all three a dispel ability as an active. Solas should be one of the mages, for best-in-class CC. The other mage can spam barrier. I agree with Bigdawg, take Cass. She can tank and, after Skyhold, dispel. Hard to beat with Walk Softly enabled.

Whichever warrior you take, put Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast on Preferred and make sure you don't stamina-starve with other prefereds. That spam keeps the whole party in max guard. Since you don't mind cheesing, you can also give your warrior Combat Roll/Coming Through and control to spam large melee mobs.

Use actionhero's Assassin build for yourself:

http://forum.bioware...e-all-the-time/

You might need to rejigger that build for before Skyhold/after Skyhold, but the perma-Stealth/Knife In The Shadows synergy is the key part of the build. After specializing, you should be the lead damage dealer by crafting for crit damage.
 
For the prologue, I'd go Archer. Easier to do the Pride Demon as a ranged attacker. But after that you can switch to DW if you want, though there's something to be said for sticking with Archer until you get the Assassin specialization. It's easier to solo CJ/IHW as a ranged attacker than melee.

[Gya]

Basically, Bigdawg13 and PapaCharlie9 have given great advice, all I can add is, give the artificer a shot!

(Honestly, I'm not on commission from the dev that designed that spec...)

Oh, and if you completed Trespasser, make sure you have the Encore schematic via your golden nug, and take 2 mages, it truly is beyond broken OP. Also, as mentioned by others already, the more dispels you have, the happier you will be early on.

[CorniliuS]

I found Cassandra better (by far) than Blackwall on harder difficulties.

No Blackwall much more tougher. Champion was designed to withstand physical damage, templar was design to fight magic. With every level champion gets boosts to armor and guard + constitution, templar gets something to fight magic + willpower. That’s why the combination of champion + templar on battlefield is so deadly, they compliment each other. Now all you need is one mage and your party is invincible in vanila game and very hard to kill in Joh and Descent.

 

I don't think that's possible with a full party, at least not in the early game. Even if you fully exploit the Golden Nug, the combination of Walk Softly + Travel Light pretty much guarantees a few full party wipe/reloads for Champions of the Just or In Hushed Whispers.
 

I completely disagree. I make armor with all kind defenses and my party survives in any battle from the start. Doing both this quest I lost only one maybe two healing bottles. You relay only on dealing damage and if you can't kill enemy fast enough your party dies.

[PapaCharlie9]

I completely disagree. I make armor with all kind defenses and my party survives in any battle from the start. Doing both this quest I lost only one maybe two healing bottles. 

 

Fair enough. I had other people say the same thing, that the way around Rub Dirt On It -- which isn't a Trial in question here, but same principle applies -- is to gear for heal on hit, max health, and other health buffs. I didn't think the available FT mats pre-Skyhold were powerful enough to compensate for Walk Softly + Travel Light, but if you say so, I won't dispute. Never tried that approach myself.

 

I still think running solo, particularly for Champions of the Just, is easier and faster in the long run.

[Bigdawg13]

No Blackwall much more tougher. Champion was designed to withstand physical damage, templar was design to fight magic. With every level champion gets boosts to armor and guard + constitution, templar gets something to fight magic + willpower. That’s why the combination of champion + templar on battlefield is so deadly, they compliment each other. Now all you need is one mage and your party is invincible in vanila game and very hard to kill in Joh and Descent.

 

I completely disagree. I make armor with all kind defenses and my party survives in any battle from the start. Doing both this quest I lost only one maybe two healing bottles. You relay only on dealing damage and if you can't kill enemy fast enough your party dies.

 

Up until Trespasser(changes to the game), Jaws of Hakkon, and trials I would have agreed with you.  But now magic is causing repeated one-shot deaths to Blackwall (in under a minute so his passive doesn't help).  And it's not big bosses that are doing it, but groups with a few Walk Softly elites thrown in.  

 

The changes that are critical to point out are:

 

Champion was nerfed in Trespasser/1.10.  Now the cooldown is no longer reduced which means you spend far more time out of walking fortress.  Blackwall spent so much time taking a dirt nap in Jaws of Hakkon that I almost broke my controller in anger.  It wasn't until I saw actionhero's post on a recommendation for Cassandra.

 

Horn of Valor toggle upgrade giving group guard means EVERYONE can survive physical damage now.  Champion is a joke.  

 

Wrath of Heaven toggle upgrade means Champion can AoE stun AND a heal.  That is clutch.  Plus the best defense in Dragon Age Inquisiton is a better offense.  Spell Purge is 100% non-negotiable.  

 

War Horn AoE fear is great on both.  

 

It was night-and-day for me.  I went from wiping on every Jaws of Hakkonite group with Blackwall to just tromping through them with Cassandra.  Her self-healing, AoE Stun, AoE Fear, spell purge....omg it was night and day.  

 

Who cares about physical damage when your entire group is full on guard and the enemies are stunned or feared 24/7.  

 

Before Trespasser toggles though, I would have agreed Blackwall was better.  Afterwards, no contest.

[DomeWing333]

Champion was nerfed in Trespasser/1.10.  Now the cooldown is no longer reduced which means you spend far more time out of walking fortress.  

Was it? I don't recall reading anything about that in the 1.10 patch notes and I didn't notice much of a difference in Blackwall's effectiveness before and after Trespasser (Granted, I didn't use him that much, but the few times I did, it was in pretty tough fights). 

 

Wrath of Heaven toggle upgrade means Champion can AoE stun AND a heal.  That is clutch.  Plus the best defense in Dragon Age Inquisiton is a better offense.  Spell Purge is 100% non-negotiable.

Did you use two-handed or weapon and shield on Cassandra? Because I ran weapon and shield myself and the damage output from WoH/SP wasn't really anything to write home about. And using two-handed for me just led to her dying more as a tank.

[arkngt]

Just finished In Your Heart Shall Burn at Lvl 11 on Nightmare with Even Ground and Walk Softly and it was definitely the most challenging time I've done it. Loved it. But I definitely couldn't have done it with Travel Light on. I wonder if it's even possible? The same for the endgame of Champions of the Just. (I mean on such levels, perhaps if you do them on higher levels.)

[Bigdawg13]

Was it? I don't recall reading anything about that in the 1.10 patch notes and I didn't notice much of a difference in Blackwall's effectiveness before and after Trespasser (Granted, I didn't use him that much, but the few times I did, it was in pretty tough fights). 

 

Did you use two-handed or weapon and shield on Cassandra? Because I ran weapon and shield myself and the damage output from WoH/SP wasn't really anything to write home about. And using two-handed for me just led to her dying more as a tank.

 

 

First, let me be crystal clear.  Even if the champion wasn't nerfed (which it was), the changes to the Templar class, the addition of trials that make the game harder (more barriers, debuffs, etc), and JoH would still make me suggest Templar over Champion.  

 

In regards to Champion, the cooldown reduction was removed.  

 

Cassandra (or Blackwall) job is not to do damage.  It's to tank.  But with the increased difficulties + trials, this doesn't work so well.  It's better to provide control.  SnS Templar works great because of the AoE stun they provide (which heals them in turn).  Now that everyone gets guard, having all the damage funneled to one character isn't so important.  The Templar offers one more AoE stun, along with a focus-party-heal, and an extra dispel.  I'll take the extra AoE CC AND dispel over Blackwall any day.

 

To be brutally honest, both were fine for me (with nightmare & trials) until I hit Jaws of Hakkon.  And then Blackwall spent so much time eating dirt he may as well have been an earthworm.  I had so many wipes.  Actionhero posted a build for Cassandra and it went from wipe-fest to smooth sailing.  

 

If someone is hell bent on Blackwall being their #1 tank that's fine.  But if you start wiping or having trouble, you may want to try Cassandra out.  If you aren't using trials (walk softly and even ground) and nightmare I don't really think it matters.  You could tank the game with any of the characters, blind-folded, blah blah blah.  You get my point.

[DomeWing333]

In regards to Champion, the cooldown reduction was removed. 

Yeah, I got that. I was just expressing surprise that I hadn't notice such a drastic change while using him. Might be because I set him up with a high-crit chance build with Flow of Battle, so the loss of cooldown reduction was somewhat mitigated.

 

Cassandra (or Blackwall) job is not to do damage.  It's to tank.  But with the increased difficulties + trials, this doesn't work so well.  It's better to provide control.  SnS Templar works great because of the AoE stun they provide (which heals them in turn). 

When you said "Plus the best defense in Dragon Age Inquisiton is a better offense.  Spell Purge is 100% non-negotiable," I had thought you were referring to the effectiveness of the WoH/Spell Purge damage combo, which I had found to be underwhelming on a W&S tank build. If you were referring to their effectiveness separately at providing support via crowd control and a Dispel, that makes more sense.

 

That being said, I found that most enemies promoted by Walk Softly tended to be immune to stun, so I actually found WoH less useful than before. 

[bigp456]

I have spent about 2 hours in the hinterlands tonight and I am getting my ass handed to me ATM lol find the wrong enemies and I wipe so many times lol

 

I am going to have to switch to archer cause Dual wield rogue is killing my ass. I haven't even gotten the horses free yet lol 

[Bigdawg13]

Yeah, I got that. I was just expressing surprise that I hadn't notice such a drastic change while using him. Might be because I set him up with a high-crit chance build with Flow of Battle, so the loss of cooldown reduction was somewhat mitigated.

 

When you said "Plus the best defense in Dragon Age Inquisiton is a better offense.  Spell Purge is 100% non-negotiable," I had thought you were referring to the effectiveness of the WoH/Spell Purge damage combo, which I had found to be underwhelming on a W&S tank build. If you were referring to their effectiveness separately at providing support via crowd control and a Dispel, that makes more sense.

 

That being said, I found that most enemies promoted by Walk Softly tended to be immune to stun, so I actually found WoH less useful than before. 

 

You can't rely on the AI to do the WoH/Spell Purge combo.  But even if the Templar only offered spell purge, I'd take the Templar over the Champion.  The physical damage that you take is pathetic.  It comes down to the ridiculous hakkonite debuff that kills you in a few seconds unless dispelled. Sure the champion might survive a few extra rounds, but mean while your party is dying.  That dispel is OP in JoH.  After Skyhold, the only difficult content is JoH.

[CorniliuS]

 

So many wrong things, I can’t correct them all.
About hostile magic.
1. Magic defence.
2. Combat Roll-Roll with It
About cooldown
Hint - Flow of Battle. Properly equipped champion can use walking fortress every 5-6 seconds give him fade material with the same ability + livid and champion literally unkillable.
About Horn of Valor
1. Champion can use Horn of Valor too you know.
About healing.
Hint – Heal 25% over 10seconds. Champion can generate so much guard, that every time he loses it, he actually healing.
Survivability of champion much higher don't argue, you just don't know how to use him. And stop playing on easy difficulties without trials you obviously have wrong impression about physical damage.

This is my party show me yours.

 

Just finished In Your Heart Shall Burn at Lvl 11 on Nightmare with Even Ground and Walk Softly and it was definitely the most challenging time I've done it. Loved it. But I definitely couldn't have done it with Travel Light on. I wonder if it's even possible? The same for the endgame of Champions of the Just. (I mean on such levels, perhaps if you do them on higher levels.)

Yes it's possible and very easy to do on 7-8lvl

[Gya]

So many wrong things, I can’t correct them all.
About hostile magic.
1. Magic defence.
2. Combat Roll-Roll with It
About cooldown
Hint - Flow of Battle. Properly equipped champion can use walking fortress every 5-6 seconds give him fade material with the same ability + livid and champion literally unkillable.
About Horn of Valor
1. Champion can use Horn of Valor too you know.
About healing.
Hint – Heal 25% over 10seconds. Champion can generate so much guard, that every time he loses it, he actually healing.
Survivability of champion much higher don't argue, you just don't know how to use him. And stop playing on easy difficulties without trials you obviously have wrong impression about physical damage.

This is my party show me yours.

 

Yes it's possible and very easy to do on 7-8lvl

 

Both are very viable. It doesn't really matter which one you take, as long as you build them vaguely appropriately. Here is Cass not dying in JoH (I posted this somewhere else before, I think, but I cant find it to link it):

 

 

I will add, a minor downside of Cass is that she seems to like timing Wrath of Heaven so that it stuns me as well, and will randomly sometimes bug out and use it even though I'd set it to disabled. But still, overall, not a big problem.

[arkngt]

Yes it's possible and very easy to do on 7-8lvl

 

OK, I believe you, but then it means that I suck even after playing the game c. 500 hours. I basically need a supply case before facing the Envy Demon, as the fight just before it is intense. The same for the end fight during In Your Heart Shall Burn.

[Bigdawg13]

So many wrong things, I can’t correct them all.
About hostile magic.
1. Magic defence.
2. Combat Roll-Roll with It
About cooldown
Hint - Flow of Battle. Properly equipped champion can use walking fortress every 5-6 seconds give him fade material with the same ability + livid and champion literally unkillable.
About Horn of Valor
1. Champion can use Horn of Valor too you know.
About healing.
Hint – Heal 25% over 10seconds. Champion can generate so much guard, that every time he loses it, he actually healing.
Survivability of champion much higher don't argue, you just don't know how to use him. And stop playing on easy difficulties without trials you obviously have wrong impression about physical damage.

This is my party show me yours.

 

Yes it's possible and very easy to do on 7-8lvl

 

I only play on nightmare with Walk Softly and Even Ground.  The only trouble I ever had in the game, was during Jaws of Hakkon.  I tried everything I could think of, different specs, (yes using Flow of Battle), and Blackwall would get one-shot with the hakkonite debuff.  I posted and actionhero said "try Cassandra" and gave me a few tips on it.  World of difference. 

 

But hey, do what you want.  You've formed your own opinion.

 

Personally I think Champion is probably one of the worst classes in the game. 

[CorniliuS]

O c'mon man! You party just stands there doing nothing, looking stupid dressed in drabs like a bums from streets of Denerim. You doing all the work, of course you can't tell the difference between temlar and champion. You must dig deep in to the game, learn about crafting, learn about abilities other then most obvious and overpowered like mines and leaping shot, only then DAI starts to be interesting. This game is full of hidden systems and they all supposed to be discovered, used and mixed with each other.

 

Personally I think Champion is probably one of the worst classes in the game. 

[Gya]

O c'mon man! You party just stands there doing nothing, looking stupid dressed in drabs like a bums from streets of Denerim.

Lol Thedas edition of Vogue is pretty harsh, guess I need to L2fashion

[CorniliuS]

Lol Thedas edition of Vogue is pretty harsh, guess I need to L2fashion

I was thinking about record Casandra's catwalk and green screened it into real fashion show. But I need single colored environment like green or blue I couldn't find it.