47 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

There are many different theories as to what the old gods/archdemons are but I think it is safe to say there are not just dragons, even Great Dragons.     The dragon is just the vessel the old god occupies.   It would seem they give off some sort of song from their prison even before they are corrupted and this can be heard by the darkspawn and attracts them to it.

 

The archdemons do seem to have some sort of reasoning intelligence and The Last Flight it displays tactical awareness in battle.  The trouble is this intelligence is hampered by the affects of the taint, so it really does seem to have no thought but destruction of those that do not have the Blight.   That isn't to say that if an old god were released prior to getting the Blight, it wouldn't still be driven to conquer; it is simply that it might opt for more conventional forces and subjects, just as Cory did.    It is also said in that book that the magic that archdemon seems to use does not have its origins in the Fade but instead seems to have some other source, possibly the Void.  Whether this is because of the Blight or because it always had its source of power in the Void is another thing that has yet to be revealed.

 

At present my money is on the old gods being either the split essence/Thedas side manifestation of the Evanuris, the main part of which is trapped in the Fade somewhere by Solas, or they are the Thedas manifestation of the Forgotten Ones who were trapped by the Evanuris or Solas and made their appeal to humanity from their prisons so they could have their revenge on them.    All of the Evanuris/Forgotten Ones were probably spirits originally.

[Catilina]

Archdemons? Perhaps they are not „evil”, just incompatible with life.

[Sifr]

This is what the Architect said,the old gods call the darkspawns on purpose.

 

A counter theory I've been working on, is what if the Magisters were responsible for the calling?

 

We know that they went to the Black City with the express purpose of finding the Old Gods, where they were the first ones (supposedly) tainted by what they found there. What if their desire to seek out and worship the Old Gods was somehow magnified and merged into the corruption they underwent, so that all subsequently tainted creatures are now unthinkingly driven to seek out the Old Gods in the same manner.

 

Would tie into how in WOT2, it's mentioned that in an abandoned Archdemon prison found by Kardol and the Legion of the Dead, they discovered a bunch of dead darkspawn with their heads against the rock, seemingly in apparent worship.

 

Of course, that wouldn't necessarily explain why the Magisters are seemingly unable to hear the calling themselves... unless that was a deliberate design by someone or something that corrupted them, that they were the only ones who couldn't always hear their Gods?

[Secret Rare]

I think that's what they were trying to do in luring the magisters to the golden city, but it was probably booby trapped,, or held noxious materials known as the blight that got let loose.

Why do you believe that it were the old gods who lured the magisters in the black city?

What we know with 100% of accuracy is that the old gods are knowledgeable beings when it comes to matters of arcane or magic,saying that they lured the magisters there is like saying that they betrayed them on purpose to bring the taint into the world.

[German Soldier]

 Point is, I think it's more complicated than they are simply evil.

The taint enhance certain aspect of the psyche of those who are infected by it but in no point it controlled someone or it showed a will of it's own.

Point is if the archdemons behaviour is the one to submit others (it is what they desire from their speech in the Dlc) one can assume that the old gods too the original had this attitude  and that it is just amplified by the taint when they are archdemons.

[myahele]

What if it's the Taint that controls them and all Tainted creatures?

 

Red Lyrium is Tainted and there are Voices in it. The Taint could simply be a mutagen and mind-control substance by whatever created it?

[Arshei]

They aren't evil!

Poor Archdemons... no one understand them.. Is hard to be a teenager archdemon.

[Tidus]

We know AD sings to the Darkspawn for them to free them..The 'Spawn goes wild trying to feel the AD.. This is the same song heard by Wardens just before their calling.

 

I fully believe these old Gods are immune to the taint.

[Secret Rare]

A counter theory I've been working on, is what if the Magisters were responsible for the calling?

 

We know that they went to the Black City with the express purpose of finding the Old Gods, where they were the first ones (supposedly) tainted by what they found there. What if their desire to seek out and worship the Old Gods was somehow magnified and merged into the corruption they underwent

I marked the statement which is basically the core foundation of this theory

The nature of the song it is somehow tied with the taint  but not necessarily it is a reflection of the desires of the magisters.

The red lyrium idol of DA2 was a tool designed to worship something and it emits the song,since the idol seem to be more ancient than the blights i have to presume that the taint does not carry the desire of worship of the magisters that were corrupted in the black city.

I'm more inclined to believe into another theory:

lyrium emit a song and red lyrium which is indeed blighted lyrium whom predate the blights emit a different type of songs

I'm more inclined to believe that the taint itself is the corrupted blood of the titans and it was unleashed when the Evanuris started to dig too deep into them (killing them) to obtain lyrium.

The dead whispers that Corypheus heared into the balck city were the dead whispers of the titans.

[rapscallioness]

 

Why do you believe that it were the old gods who lured the magisters in the black city?

What we know with 100% of accuracy is that the old gods are knowledgeable beings when it comes to matters of arcane or magic,saying that they lured the magisters there is like saying that they betrayed them on purpose to bring the taint into the world.

 

 

For the bolded I would have to dig for some codex. But it is my impression that Dumat was the one that was telling Cory to come to the golden city, that there was power there.

 

As for the second part, yes, absolutely the old gods are knowledgeable in matters of the arcane or magic. I did post something to this in my second post, but it may not be that the old gods betrayed them on purpose; the og's may have very well thought they were giving a gift of power to the magisters. Unfortunately, it had a price.

 

Or, the place was booby trapped and the og's did not know this until the magisters were there. Kind of like a fail safe on the golden city.

 

Or, they did indeed betray them on purpose to bring taint to the world.

[rapscallioness]

 

The taint enhance certain aspect of the psyche of those who are infected by it but in no point it controlled someone or it showed a will of it's own.

Point is if the archdemons behaviour is the one to submit others (it is what they desire from their speech in the Dlc) one can assume that the old gods too the original had this attitude  and that it is just amplified by the taint when they are archdemons.

 

 

 

Yes. They are domineering. It makes even more sense if the og's are the Evanuris whom we know were enslaving people.

 

So, yeah. I agree? The old gods had that attitude and it was magnified by the taint when they were archdemons.

 

I thought I said this, but maybe I was not clear. I think our parting of ways is in the term "evil". That to me is a rather absolute and blanket idea with no room for nuance. That's why I say I do not think it is that simple.

[rapscallioness]

 

*snip*

I'm more inclined to believe that the taint itself is the corrupted blood of the titans and it was unleashed when the Evanuris started to dig too deep into them (killing them) to obtain lyrium.

The dead whispers that Corypheus heared into the balck city were the dead whispers of the titans.

 

 

I'm inclined to this way of thinking, myself.

 

In truth, it reminds me of Blood Magic because lyrium is the "blood" of the Titans. Blood that was used to make the Evanuris more powerful. Blood magic as we know it in Thedas today is like a lower form of the same idea.

[rapscallioness]

Heck, even what happened at Haven was a blood magic ritual. The Magisters got into the Fade the same way before; a bunch of sacrifices and a ton of lyrium which the Conclave at the Temple provided handily. With the orb as a foci.

[rapscallioness]

...so where does all this leave Urthemiel? And will we run into it again? Because I'm not sure if Mythal was still carrying it inside her when Soals ...happened. Or if that initially scene with her hand on the eluvian was her tucking the soul of this old god away?

 

edit: nvm. i keep forgetting that was an optional choice.

[Xerrai]

I honestly have no bloody clue why the Old Gods are the way they are. They could be inherently malicious or they could be desperate draconic beings (I would go crazy if I was locked up under the earth for gods know how many years...) or something else entirely.

 

There are theories, certainly. Many of which intertwine with the Evanuris, but there so little concrete evidence on anything that I simply can't be sure anymore.

[UniformGreyColor]

I read a Dev say something along the lines of "we're not even close to finished with DA". If that is true, it could very well be a long while before we get some really solid answers.

 

On an aside, I never heard anything about titans before. I haven't even finished the game yet (I started a new character and just finished talking to stroud in Crestwood).

[Secret Rare]

I'm inclined to this way of thinking, myself.

In truth, it reminds me of Blood Magic because lyrium is the "blood" of the Titans.

Their blood in the form of lyrium emit a song and if the taint
(funny at how the words are simlar in english titan&taint)is their corrupted blood this would indicate that the Calling is tied to them not to the old gods.
Afterall what proof we have that the Old gods are the one responsible for the calling?
They are trapped within titans prison
so the calling may be performed by the prisons in which they are locked not by them directly.

[German Soldier]

There are many different theories as to what the old gods/archdemons are but I think it is safe to say there are not just dragons, even Great Dragons.    

Great dragons and old gods aren't the same thing?

[Secret Rare]

It's also possible that the ones the Magisters thought were their "Old Gods" were not actually the dragons themselves at all. That doesn't mean there might not be a connection of course (wouldn't it be amusing if the "Old Gods" were just power-infused high dragons 
 

It cannot be from this banter  at 4:03:40 Solas refuse to consider the  old gods as powerful infused dragons also in a  another convo he reject their godhood.

Also in this same banter Solas reveal to know Cory secret which is why i questioned long ago the usefulness of the well of sorrow which we could have destroyed without  problems.

[Mlady]

It's hard to say, because if you do the dark ritual, Morrigan's son has an Old God soul and he's a nice kid and Flemeth being more Dragon than Elf makes me think the Old Gods are connected somehow to the Evanuris.

 

I see the Old Gods as having been trapped underground during the Evanuris/Titan fight and discovering of the taint, and they became the victims of it because they were powerful dragons who once ruled everything and were shackled by the false Gods.

 

High Dragons however seem to already have the Blight in them and they can't be tainted as easily.

[rapscallioness]

Their blood in the form of lyrium emit a song and if the taint
(funny at how the words are simlar in english titan&taint)is their corrupted blood this would indicate that the Calling is tied to them not to the old gods.
Afterall what proof we have that the Old gods are the one responsible for the calling?
They are trapped within titans prison
so the calling may be performed by the prisons in which they are locked not by them directly.

 

 

Could be. I mean in Descent--I forgot her name--but the one Shaperate scholar dwarf heard a type of calling, though it seemed a bit different as in it was more of a rhythm.

 

Heck, maybe the Calling is just the Titans calling to someone to help get these old dragon gods out their system because they're like a festering splinter.

[rapscallioness]

Isn't the dragon just one of the forms that the Evanuris like to shapeshift into? How they would all be trapped while in that form at the time they become imprisoned--idk.

 

edit: unless when they were imprisoned they did not look the same as they do after they become tainted. The taint does change your appearance.....eh.

[General TSAR]

Does it really matter? Do their motivations really matter? They are the agency that gets the plot/lore moving.