92 réponses à ce sujet

[SwobyJ]

I would say Quarians because of their technological curiousity like humanity. Look at our society today and look at the movies that were made because people believed we would do something like Terminator movies depicted. Some stories are made to show us what we fear to come and are works of fantasy. Not to mention TIM made a fully functional AI to run our ship in ME2. If any race will destroy themselves with machines, I am sure humanity will. If it is anything that we learn thoughout history, history will repeat itself and humans will be the next to make a AI. It may be worst with humanity AI than it was with Quarians, imagine Skynet on a galactic scale lol. 

 

Those aren't ties, those are similarities.

 

We can imagine a post-ME3 galaxy with closer and closer ties between Humans and Quarians because of your reasoning though, sure.

[SwobyJ]

Why should your blatant racism matter to who potentially helps humanity the most? A quarian is solely responsible for Shep even becoming a Spectre and being able to fight the Reapers in the first place. We provide the mathematically largest contribution to the Battle for Earth of everyone except the Alliance (875 War Assets) provided you are loyal to us in return. Those are both facts.

First, the geth "plague" did almost nothing to anyone in the galaxy but us for 3 centuries. Considering that the Council did nothing but watch us burn against the geth because they were afraid of fighting them, they've no right to complain when they finally become a problem at Eden Prime. We warned you and you ignored us, and even when we go it alone to finally fix the "plague", you cry about that too. Wanna talk about unleashing plagues? Why are those salarians still on the Council after being responsible for both the rachni and krogan? (both of which were far more destructive than the geth). Bosh'tet hypocrites the lot of you.

Yeah, go ahead and cry about a successful strategy that destroys the enemy Dreadnought and results in zero friendly casualties. I'm surprised your Shep survived basic without crying home to mommy when the live fire excercises started, let alone became an N7 and a Spectre.

It's okay, we're still willing to do everything we can and send the whole Fleet to help you get your planet back, provided you don't space Hitler us out of existence with our own toasters like a disloyal jerk. You're welcome

 

These are so much fun to read.

[EpicNewb]

What makes you say their PR suffers after the war?

Good stuff. I want to clarify.

 

4)Though I keep in mind possibility that through several factors, Asari decline in galactic reputation after the war

[DarthSliver]

Those aren't ties, those are similarities.

 

We can imagine a post-ME3 galaxy with closer and closer ties between Humans and Quarians because of your reasoning though, sure.

 

Well each race represents a piece of humanity so really you can go with any race. Races in scifi stuff have always been like this. 

[SwobyJ]

What makes you say their PR suffers after the war?

 

Lack of decisive leadership relative to others, fragility of Council, potential exposure about the Thessia beacon, Asari political approach (domestic and galactic) being considered weak upon invasion, and other species accepting each other more than before, leaving Asari with lesser of their dominant role as mediators. Really to me, there's an increasing trend since the start that while it shows the lightness of the Asari, it comes with increasing degrees of darkness. I am concerned about their future at least. ME3 itself seemed like a big, in terms of writing drama, wake-up call about the state of Asari existence.

 

I'm not saying they'll necessarily become utter outcasts. Plenty happens that includes Asari as full contributors to the war in the end. And I can certainly see them still having political relations with others and rebuilding their worlds. But I do question whether we'd have the same organization as before. 

 

Part of me does fancanon a story of Asari declining enough to start secretly and then maybe openly embracing the AY in them (individuals, genetic science) to try to get a version of the upper hand again and try at empire like it seemed Morinth had delusions about. Creepy!

But I don't actually predict this as most likely lol. Just a fun idea. I don't hate the Asari, by the way, I just like the drama this would bring up.

[EpicNewb]

Quarians = Indians?

 

Well each race represents a piece of humanity so really you can go with any race. Races in scifi stuff have always been like this. 

[SwobyJ]

Well each race represents a piece of humanity so really you can go with any race. Races in scifi stuff have always been like this.

 
By tie, I took it as having close relationship as civilizations of species.
 
Definition:
a bond or connection, as of affection, kinship, mutual interest, or between two or more people, groups, nations, or the like:
family ties; the ties between Britain and the U.S.

 

By the end of ME3, the most that Humanity has to do with Quarians is just that the Quarians have joined the Crucible, assist fleets, and some enter 'N7' groups. Other than that there still isn't much (even as a minority population in the galaxy, there still isn't anywhere close to a close relationship like Hanar and Drell), and previous to ME3 there is barely a relationship between Quarians and Humans, and the Tali situation (ally, friend, romance) is a rather novel thing; maybe not completely new, but rare.

[EpicNewb]

What races besides humans would you say gets a massive PR boost? 

Lack of decisive leadership relative to others, fragility of Council, potential exposure about the Thessia beacon, Asari political approach (domestic and galactic) being considered weak upon invasion, and other species accepting each other more than before, leaving Asari with lesser of their dominant role as mediators. Really to me, there's an increasing trend since the start that while it shows the lightness of the Asari, it comes with increasing degrees of darkness. I am concerned about their future at least. ME3 itself seemed like a big, in terms of writing drama, wake-up call about the state of Asari existence.

 

I'm not saying they'll necessarily become utter outcasts. Plenty happens that includes Asari as full contributors to the war in the end. And I can certainly see them still having political relations with others and rebuilding their worlds. But I do question whether we'd have the same organization as before. 

 

Part of me does fancanon a story of Asari declining enough to start secretly and then maybe openly embracing the AY in them (individuals, genetic science) to try to get a version of the upper hand again and try at empire like it seemed Morinth had delusions about. Creepy!

But I don't actually predict this as most likely lol. Just a fun idea. I don't hate the Asari, by the way, I just like the drama this would bring up.

[SwobyJ]

What races besides humans would you say gets a massive PR boost? 

 

All subjective to me, but a list off the top of my head:

-Turians possibly

-maybe or maybe not Salarians

-Krogan at least initially (depending on choices)

-Geth and/or Quarians (depending on choices)

-Rachni (depending on choices)

-Batarians (not the Hegemony)

 

But by 'boost', I mean 'much better than before'. Batarians may still be around the bottom, but in their case their government has collapsed and ever since then, we only see examples of individual Batarians making a good showing, as well as acquiring plenty of pity for their predicament. DLC War Assets of Batarian politicians rallying their people to work with the galaxy, and even the crazy Omega preacher taking a relatively cooperative tone to unite Omega against Cerberus (still anti-Human racist, but focusing on something else).

 

Most of boost came to the outcasts, and the top dogs got their humble pie in some way. Even with all the Turian contributions and the huge respect they'll get for that, they also showed that they are definitely NOT the necessarily absolute military superpower.

 

Salarians didn't get much one way or the other, from what I can tell. They both tried to stay out of things like Asari, but also came to/or could come to aid for the war earlier than Asari. As far as we can tell from info so far, they also didn't have anything in particular that either helped things a ton, or harmed things a ton (arguably, even the Prothian beacon stuff for the Asari, if it gets made public, would be a huge PR disaster in itself). They're problematic but they also didn't as actively hamper the situation as the Asari hiding out. While it seemed the majority of Matriarchs settled on waiting too long for consensus, the Salarian government seemed like a mix, many of which did support the war and helping it earlier.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

On the other hand, it took special Reaper and Shepard intervention to make their contribution happen, whereas its not hard to imagine Salarians, Turians, and Asari trying to band together, even if in failure and another full Harvest Cycle. The Council races did have more cooperation  - its just not the extent and kind that was needed against the Reapers.

Shepard intervention was only required in any of their cases precisely due to the Reapers, so it's hardly their fault. The rachni were forcibly enslaved. The geth were getting destroyed before they even knew the reapers were invading, and saw no alternative but enslavement to them when they finally did (there were alternatives, like giving up Rannoch+ the other quarian colonies and retreating just as the quarians had 3 centuries earlier, but we'll gloss over that). The quarians wouldn't have been held up at all if only they'd worked a few days faster between ME2 and 3 to get their planet back. All 3's governing bodies acknowledged the existence of and planned on fighting the Reapers when they arrived, which can't be said for any of the Council/Citadel species, not even the human leadership (they were busy tossing dissidents like Shepard in jail to silence them).

It ultimately doesn't matter much when any of them join the fight either way, since the Crucible takes so much time to prepare and intergrate with the Citadel (due in no small part to the asari and their subterfuge as well). Even if the quarians, geth or rachni had available forces to send earlier than they do, they'd just be more cannon fodder delaying the Reapers before the Battle of Earth like everyone else. The fact remains that they throw just about everything they have at humanity's Crucible plan as soon as they are able, rather than lending token support while focussing more on attempting to protect their own interests.
 

These are so much fun to read.

Happy to be of service in bringing glorious facts to the propagandized masses. I don't hold your collective ignorance of Quarian Truth against you you.

[EpicNewb]

How do your people feel about THE KROGANS?  Iirc there was minimal contact between the two during the trilogy

 

 

Shepard intervention was only required in any of their cases precisely due to the Reapers, so it's hardly their fault. The rachni were forcibly enslaved. The geth were getting destroyed before they even knew the reapers were invading, and saw no alternative but enslavement to them when they finally did (there were alternatives, like giving up Rannoch+ the other quarian colonies and retreating just as the quarians had 3 centuries earlier, but we'll gloss over that). The quarians wouldn't have been held up at all if only they'd worked a few days faster between ME2 and 3 to get their planet back. All 3's governing bodies acknowledged the existence of and planned on fighting the Reapers when they arrived, which can't be said for any of the Council/Citadel species, not even the human leadership (they were busy tossing dissidents like Shepard in jail to silence them).

It ultimately doesn't matter much when any of them join the fight either way, since the Crucible takes so much time to prepare and intergrate with the Citadel (due in no small part to the asari and their subterfuge as well). Even if the quarians, geth or rachni had available forces to send earlier than they do, they'd just be more cannon fodder delaying the Reapers before the Battle of Earth like everyone else. The fact remains that they throw just about everything they have at humanity's Crucible plan as soon as they are able, rather than lending token support while focussing more on attempting to protect their own interests.
 

Happy to be of service in bringing glorious facts to the propagandized masses. I don't hold your collective ignorance of Quarian Truth against you you.

 

[Quarian Master Race]

How do your people feel about THE KROGANS?  Iirc there was minimal contact between the two during the trilogy

They don't tell many stories of them in the Flotilla. Tali and Wrex seem amicable enough buddies in both ME1 and ME3 (moreso than most members of the squad), though, and the former is sympathetic to the genophage cure. I guess being collectively shat on by the Council would forge some form of camaraderie?

[Vortex13]

They don't tell many stories of them in the Flotilla. Tali and Wrex seem amicable enough buddies in both ME1 and ME3 (moreso than most members of the squad), though, and the former is sympathetic to the genophage cure. I guess being collectively shat on by the Council would forge some form of camaraderie?

 

 

The Quarians? Yes most definitely.

 

 

The Krogan? No, not really. Was there animosity between the two? Yes, but the Krogan gave back as much as they received and it's not like the Council went out of it's way to persecute the battle toads like they did with the Flotilla.

[Quarian Master Race]

The Quarians? Yes most definitely.

 

 

The Krogan? No, not really. Was there animosity between the two? Yes, but the Krogan gave back as much as they received and it's not like the Council went out of it's way to persecute the battle toads like they did with the Flotilla.

In universe perception by the respective two characters. I wasn't necessarily stating my opinion in regard to the krogan. IMO the genophage was most certainly a necessity given krogan actions and unwillingness to play nice (granted, the later revelation that its method is making 99.9% of krogan females able to concieve but then pop out stillborns is unnecessarily sadistic unless it was the only way for some reason).

If you bring Tali and Wrex when you are presenting the former's data on Saren to the Council, you get a context sensitive banter between them where they both bash the Council for abandoning the quarians. Tali expresses distaste at the genophage in elevator conversations in ME1 and banter in ME3. They're also two of the characters most likely to call for abandoning the Council at the end of ME1 (Ashley is the other one, provided you don't soften her).

[Vortex13]

In universe perception by the respective two characters. I wasn't necessarily stating my opinion in regard to the krogan. IMO the genophage was most certainly a necessity given krogan actions and unwillingness to play nice (though the later revelation that its method is making 99.9% of krogan females able to concieve but then pop out stillborns is unnecessarily sadistic unless it was the only way for some reason).

If you bring Tali and Wrex when you are presenting the former's data on Saren to the Council, you get a context sensitive dialouge between them where they both bash the Council for abandoning the quarians. Tali expresses distaste at the genophage in elevator conversations in ME1 and banter in ME3. They're also two of the characters most likely to call for abandoning the Council at the end of ME1 (Ashley is the other one, provided you don't soften her).

 

 

Which was just thrown in at the last second to further villanize the Genophage and anyone that supported it (IMO). You're right in saying that such a design feature is needlessly sadistic and completely at odds with any other form of birth control out there. More realistically, it should have either prevented fertilization, or at most lead to very short term miscarriages in a large percentage of the population, but then again that's not evil enough for BioWare's tastes.

 

Even then, its not like dead babies are anything new to the Krogan. Their pre-idustrial society was dealing with the same infant mortality rate that they have with Genophage now, so its not like it would have brought the species to the brink of extinction.

[Quarian Master Race]

Which was just thrown in at the last second to further villanize the Genophage and anyone that supported it (IMO). You're right in saying that such a design feature is needlessly sadistic and completely at odds with any other form of birth control out there. More realistically, it should have either prevented fertilization, or at most lead to very short term miscarriages in a large percentage of the population, but then again that's not evil enough for BioWare's tastes.

 

Even then, its not like dead babies are anything new to the Krogan. Their pre-idustrial society was dealing with the same infant mortality rate that they have with Genophage now, so its not like it would have brought the species to the brink of extinction.

No doubt, much like the out of nowhere "benign geth protecting quarian dissidents during the Morning War" garbage. Just typical examples of the ME3 Feelz bludgeon the writers started to use on seemingly everything, instead of nuanced writing designed to actually force the average person to think about these issues.

[Livi14]

Most of boost came to the outcasts, and the top dogs got their humble pie in some way. Even with all the Turian contributions and the huge respect they'll get for that, they also showed that they are definitely NOT the necessarily absolute military superpower.

 

Salarians didn't get much one way or the other, from what I can tell. They both tried to stay out of things like Asari, but also came to/or could come to aid for the war earlier than Asari. As far as we can tell from info so far, they also didn't have anything in particular that either helped things a ton, or harmed things a ton (arguably, even the Prothian beacon stuff for the Asari, if it gets made public, would be a huge PR disaster in itself). They're problematic but they also didn't as actively hamper the situation as the Asari hiding out. While it seemed the majority of Matriarchs settled on waiting too long for consensus, the Salarian government seemed like a mix, many of which did support the war and helping it earlier.

 

Why do you think so? The Asari threw in their full support right after the Cerberus coup (just like the Salarians and only one mission after the Turians agree to help Earth) and Aeian T'Goni is even seen as early as the first ME3 trek to the Citadel, which means that the Asari helped before the coup as well. And while they are not as helpful as the Krogan/Quarians/Geth, they contribute more war assets than the Turians and double the Salarians. I mean, if you cure the genophage, the Salarians are practically absent despite the fact that their home world saw hardly any war. I agree that the Krogan, Quarians and Geth probably have some kind of redemption in the eyes of the galaxy if they survive the war and Wrex is the king of the krogan, but the Asari did more than the other two council races.

[SwobyJ]

Why do you think so? The Asari threw in their full support right after the Cerberus coup (just like the Salarians and only one mission after the Turians agree to help Earth) and Aeian T'Goni is even seen as early as the first ME3 trek to the Citadel, which means that the Asari helped before the coup as well. And while they are not as helpful as the Krogan/Quarians/Geth, they contribute more war assets than the Turians and double the Salarians. I mean, if you cure the genophage, the Salarians are practically absent despite the fact that their home world saw hardly any war. I agree that the Krogan, Quarians and Geth probably have some kind of redemption in the eyes of the galaxy if they survive the war and Wrex is the king of the krogan, but the Asari did more than the other two council races.

 

I'm not saying they'll necessarily become utter outcasts. Plenty happens that includes Asari as full contributors to the war in the end. And I can certainly see them still having political relations with others and rebuilding their worlds. But I do question whether we'd have the same organization as before.

All I mean was that politically, I can see them on shaky ground trying to deal with so much relative chaos of a 'united galaxy' as opposed to 'the Council's chosen'.
 
Again
 

I'm not saying they'll necessarily become utter outcasts.

Not to snark, just trying to be very clear. I'm not stating that I agree with those in threads before that thought Asari would just plummet in reputation. A big part of ME3 was how the Asari were toppled off their societal perch in several ways. This doesn't mean they collapse, but I just think it could mean they deal with changes. Hell its even symbolic at times like with Samara speaking about how the Justicars may be no more (Justicar possibly = 'old ways of keeping order').

 

I'd even be a bit surprised if the Citadel Council system survives.