108 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr. rotinaj]

I just think it's darkly funny how race is still an issue.

Since when has race ACTUALLY MATTERED?

I'm not talking about history, that was more people using "race" as an excuse to do bad things to people, like how terrorists pretend to be "religious" to excuse their evil actions.

 

Seriously, what does race have to do with anything?

Why do we have Black History Month?  Why not White History Month?  Hispanic History Month?  Asian History Month?  Llama History Month?

Why don't we have an N7 Day?

(oh wait, we do)

It's a little funny, but also very sad that this kind of thing still exists.

Didn't we solve this problem already?

 

Yes, I know the post, title, etc. is a satire, but I've run into folks who would say this seriously.

 

I hope you're not American and think your country's race issues are solved. If so, you should do some research. 

Every month is White History month. Black History month is for the descendants of slaves who were stolen from west Africa and stripped of their own culture, language, and history. It's a month to celebrate black americans and significant moments in black american history.

[Gothfather]

Look. This is getting cyclical and you are repeating yourself. I never stated BioWare wasn't still predominantly Canadian. I only stated they aren't Canadian-only anymore. There is cultural diversity as well as various nationalities making up their studios, because it is a global company. Again, your excuse that hetero white men can write for sexual minorities because there are more of them in Canada versus racial minorities is lame and unconvincing. Yes, Drew Karpyshyn (lead writer on KotOR, ME1, ME2), David Gaider (lead writer on DAO, DAII, DAI), and Mike Laidlaw (lead writer on JE) are, in fact, hetero white men. I know this because they have stated they have wives and are married.

 

My point is BioWare doesn't make games only for Canada. They make games for the world, predominantly North America and Europe. There is absolutely no excuse for them to be able to write anything they want. These are professionals. Part of being a writer is being able to write characters who are, in fact, not you. Again, the fact the voice actor for Jacob is African American clearly shows they had exposure to African Americans, and likely the character was meant to represent that community. This isn't rocket scientist. This isn't difficult. BioWare researches about everything they do when they write characters. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to learn some things about African American culture in the United States.

 

I think it's probably best if we end the discussion here, as you seem to be getting emotional and I feel such responses will only derail the thread and render what is a valid OP worthless.

 

And when they do add a fraking Black character you are all WAh wah wah. Why because he doesn't fit what you believe is culturally accurate that it is just a stereotype. yet somehow Canadians who don't have any change to meet large divergent populations of Black people let alone African Americans are magically suppose to write something you culturally approve of?

 

And it boggles the mind that you can't grasp that exposure to something allows writers to write about said something they are not actively apart of as exposure imparts knowledge yet little to no expose doesn't impart knowledge. Again how do you learn and understand African American culture in Canada? Please enlighten us. Please show us which writers for ME, ME2 and ME3 were suppose to have gleamed the knowledge to craft a character to meet your approval? What they magically should have known race issues in a separate country?

 

Are you that self centred that you think every nation must understand American race relations? What if it is sold in the USA it must be crafted to meet your cultural norms? WTF? Mass effect was made by Canadians period, yes there were a few non Canadians but by and large it was made by Canadians. So why shouldn't its entire perspective not be shaped by the process? What because it is sold in the US that should magically change the perspective of its creators? Funny how it is okay for European studios to be distinctly European but oh no can't have a fraking Canadian studio be distinctly Canadian it has to create content that is American because <reasons.>

 

My country doesn't gun down unarmed minorities on a regular basis as far as i am concern Americans should really STFU about Canada and its companies about its race relations, about how well or how poorly we represent minorities until your house is in order. All I know is that in Canada's last Federal election in October of 2015 race never even came up as an issue, could be because of the fact people of minorities feel they have a voice in government. And i showed that Canada is ethnically diverse in previous posts we just don't have Black and Latino minorities. So maybe Americans should tidy their own house before telling others what they should or shouldn't be doing on the race front. I think Canada is doing just fine with regards to representation even if Black representation isn't up to your standards. But hey who needs facts when you live in the 'opinion' age.

 

http://www.theguardi...st-diverse-ever

http://www.thestar.c...ideau-hall.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_8494752.html

 

I can't imagine the US government even coming close to this type of diversity and representation. But again facts don't fit your narrative. You have an agenda and the facts be damned.

[Dr. rotinaj]

I didn't find Jacob to be stereotypical in any harmful way. His story with his father was developed, it wasn't lazily copying a stereotype. It wasn't "im black loool ofc my dad left," it was a full quest about a guy and his terrible man of a father. The infidelity thing in ME3 was unfortunate but I'm pretty sure it was because he wasn't very popular so they didn't want to make special content for the jacobmancers.

 

I just think they were just unfortunate coincidences, rather than accidental racism.  

[LinksOcarina]

You know, I had a thought.

 

If people keep asking questions regarding racial diversity or whether something is racists or not,  perhaps the problem lies with the person asking that question. Last I checked nothing has been inherently racist in the games as far as im concerned.

 

The only problem with Jacob's character was due to Jacob being boring as all hell, and his arc is about an abuse of authority and power and how he doesn't want to be involved in that. His entire arc has little to do with skin color; it has to do with rather mediocre writing and a weak character overall.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

WHATHAVEYOODUNLINDSAY!?

 

I have four things to add, and may regret up to, and including, all four of them:

 

- Canada is actually a very diverse place.

 

- Jacob could just as easily have been Canadian.

 

- Despite how it may appear, we really aren't that up-tight.

 

- And, lastly...

 

[Revan Reborn]

<reasons>

I was afraid this might happen. You've gone on a tirade and are using a straw man argument, derailing the thread, claiming I'm apparently a narcissistic American and I'm trying to push my values on you when you are Canadian. Lets just end with the nonsense while you are ahead.

 

For one, don't even try to claim Canadian culture is so much better than American culture when the Mayor of Toronto, who could have became the Prime Minister of Canada, was a crackhead. In case you forgot:

 

 

For the record, the point of this video is to show no country is perfect. The United States is far from perfect. That being said, Canada isn't exactly a crowning achievement of perfection either.

 

This isn't a discussion about xenophobia, ethnocentrism, or any other nonsense. This is about BioWare doing a good job of writing characters and nothing else. The point is they have the resources and money to gain a large variety of perspectives, not just the Canadian one. Anything you say is merely an excuse and pandering because of your misplaced sense of loyalty to BioWare because they were "Canadian" at one point.

[Gothfather]

I was afraid this might happen. You've gone on a tirade and are using a straw man argument, derailing the thread, claiming I'm apparently a narcissistic American and I'm trying to push my values on you when you are Canadian. Lets just end with the nonsense while you are ahead.

 

For one, don't even try to claim Canadian culture is so much better than American culture when the Mayor of Toronto, who could have became the Prime Minister of Canada, was a crackhead. In case you forgot:

Spoiler

For the record, the point of this video is to show no country is perfect. The United States is far from perfect. That being said, Canada isn't exactly a crowning achievement of perfection either.

 

This isn't a discussion about xenophobia, ethnocentrism, or any other nonsense. This is about BioWare doing a good job of writing characters and nothing else. The point is they have the resources and money to gain a large variety of perspectives, not just the Canadian one. Anything you say is merely an excuse and pandering because of your misplaced sense of loyalty to BioWare because they were "Canadian" at one point.

 

 

WTF?

 

So we had a crackhead mayor and that equates to near weekly reports of unarmed minorities being gunned down by police?

 

That our diversity in government that is actually a fact i sourced is negated because an ex mayor did drugs?

 

A guy who never ran for federal parliament and you say he could have been our prime minister? WTF? What you mean "could of" as in a meteor could land on your head in the next hour possible?

 

How the frak is Rob Ford relevant to race relations? Are you referring to the time he was the only opposition vote to naming a street after Nelson Mandela? As I recall spokesperson stated that he accidentally pushed the wrong button or something to that effect. And i'd love to know how voting in opposition to naming a street after Mandela isn't a false equivalency to cops gunning down minorities.

 

Bioware does a damn good job of minority representation. You however have an agenda and facts don't matter to said agenda. You are the one who is expecting a foreign studio to create a game that is representative of YOUR country vs being representative of it's country. Who is the unreasonable one here?

[ZipZap2000]

0/10



Would not let Elves bang.

[UniformGreyColor]

And when they do add a fraking Black character you are all WAh wah wah. Why because he doesn't fit what you believe is culturally accurate that it is just a stereotype. yet somehow Canadians who don't have any change to meet large divergent populations of Black people let alone African Americans are magically suppose to write something you culturally approve of?

 

And it boggles the mind that you can't grasp that exposure to something allows writers to write about said something they are not actively apart of as exposure imparts knowledge yet little to no expose doesn't impart knowledge. Again how do you learn and understand African American culture in Canada? Please enlighten us. Please show us which writers for ME, ME2 and ME3 were suppose to have gleamed the knowledge to craft a character to meet your approval? What they magically should have known race issues in a separate country?

 

Are you that self centred that you think every nation must understand American race relations? What if it is sold in the USA it must be crafted to meet your cultural norms? WTF? Mass effect was made by Canadians period, yes there were a few non Canadians but by and large it was made by Canadians. So why shouldn't its entire perspective not be shaped by the process? What because it is sold in the US that should magically change the perspective of its creators? Funny how it is okay for European studios to be distinctly European but oh no can't have a fraking Canadian studio be distinctly Canadian it has to create content that is American because <reasons.>

 

My country doesn't gun down unarmed minorities on a regular basis as far as i am concern Americans should really STFU about Canada and its companies about its race relations, about how well or how poorly we represent minorities until your house is in order. All I know is that in Canada's last Federal election in October of 2015 race never even came up as an issue, could be because of the fact people of minorities feel they have a voice in government. And i showed that Canada is ethnically diverse in previous posts we just don't have Black and Latino minorities. So maybe Americans should tidy their own house before telling others what they should or shouldn't be doing on the race front. I think Canada is doing just fine with regards to representation even if Black representation isn't up to your standards. But hey who needs facts when you live in the 'opinion' age.

 

http://www.theguardi...st-diverse-ever

http://www.thestar.c...ideau-hall.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_8494752.html

 

I can't imagine the US government even coming close to this type of diversity and representation. But again facts don't fit your narrative. You have an agenda and the facts be damned.

 

You're basically saying that no matter how sensitive an issue is it doesn't matter because of regional influences. While that in itself isn't a problem, it becomes a problem when this is not an issue within a vacuum and when there is a decent chance a party might be exposed to being offended by this sensitive material it changes things a bit.

 

A simple series of emails or a survey could give you all the info you need to determine if you are going to produce anything that looks like sensitive material.

 

Its not about U.S. vs. everybody here. Its common sense to cover your bases so you don't get a lawsuit or something. And that's just the legal part of it, nvm the way a person might feel about an individual being a subtle misrepresentation of a demographic group.

 

You are not your country. As such, you should not feel that what is representatively typical for people of your country to hold the same view as yourself.

[slimgrin]

I didn't find Jacob to be stereotypical in any harmful way. His story with his father was developed, it wasn't lazily copying a stereotype. It wasn't "im black loool ofc my dad left," it was a full quest about a guy and his terrible man of a father. The infidelity thing in ME3 was unfortunate but I'm pretty sure it was because he wasn't very popular so they didn't want to make special content for the jacobmancers.

 

I just think they were just unfortunate coincidences, rather than accidental racism.  

 

Jacob was hardly stereotypical in the context of ME2. He wasn't even that bad of a character. And the community hated him, lol. 

[Revan Reborn]

WTF?

 

So we had a crackhead mayor and that equates to near weekly reports of unarmed minorities being gunned down by police?

 

That our diversity in government that is actually a fact i sourced is negated because an ex mayor did drugs?

 

A guy who never ran for federal parliament and you say he could have been our prime minister? WTF? What you mean "could of" as in a meteor could land on your head in the next hour possible?

 

How the frak is Rob Ford relevant to race relations? Are you referring to the time he was the only opposition vote to naming a street after Nelson Mandela? As I recall spokesperson stated that he accidentally pushed the wrong button or something to that effect. And i'd love to know how voting in opposition to naming a street after Mandela isn't a false equivalency to cops gunning down minorities.

 

Bioware does a damn good job of minority representation. You however have an agenda and facts don't matter to said agenda. You are the one who is expecting a foreign studio to create a game that is representative of YOUR country vs being representative of it's country. Who is the unreasonable one here?

My point is neither one of our countries is perfect. There is corruption, violence, and tragedy everywhere.

 

Rob Ford was seeking to become the Prime Minister of Canada, in case you did not know. Obviously, for a multitude of reasons that video showed, his chances dwindled quite rapidly.

 

I never claimed Rob Ford had any ties or correlations to police brutality against minorities in the United States. I'm merely suggesting no place is perfect, and before you begin demonizing other nations, you should look at your own.

 

Again, using a straw man to try and articulate an argument I never stated. I have no "agenda." I just want BioWare to be more cognizant of their fans and write stories we can all enjoy. It wouldn't have been fun if every LI in ME ended up going with somebody else and there was nothing you could do to stop it. This isn't even a matter of race anymore, but treating your fans with respect and dignity. I merely empathize with those who romanced Jacob and in turn received nothing but a backhand slap for their choice.

 

For the record, Mass Effect is science fiction, about the galaxy as a whole and make-believe aliens that don't even exist. It's not a contemporary understanding of 21st Century Canada, no matter how much you may wish it to be. The only reference we have to Canada, at all, is the fact the beginning of ME3 takes place in Canada.

 

Please stop making this about the US vs Canada. This is about making stories and characters in a respectful and professional manner.

[Andrew Lucas]

"Minority."

Ha.

[Vortex13]

Yeah, I'm really interested to see if BioWare will represent the true minorities in a Mass Effect game.

You know... the non-humanoid, 'alien' aliens.

If we're talking misrepresentation, then I would like to see more light shown on species like the Rachni, or Thorian instead of MORE human... issues.

[Battlebloodmage]

This thread went exactly as I expected.

 

[Gothfather]

You're basically saying that no matter how sensitive an issue is it doesn't matter because of regional influences. While that in itself isn't a problem, it becomes a problem when this is not an issue within a vacuum and when there is a decent chance a party might be exposed to being offended by this sensitive material it changes things a bit.

 

A simple series of emails or a survey could give you all the info you need to determine if you are going to produce anything that looks like sensitive material.

 

Its not about U.S. vs. everybody here. Its common sense to cover your bases so you don't get a lawsuit or something. And that's just the legal part of it, nvm the way a person might feel about an individual being a subtle misrepresentation of a demographic group.

 

You are not your country. As such, you should not feel that what is representatively typical for people of your country to hold the same view as yourself.

 

WTF?

 

Jacob's story isn't even insensitive. What a military career results in an absentee father in the sense that he is deployed and that deployment cause the family to break up is steriotypical? Was he the only character with a bad parent? OMFG every bloody character story in ME2 seemed to be having daddy issues or being themselves a bad parent. What so jacob is one of MANY and that makes him an insensitive racial stereotype? On what planet are you thinking any rational lawyer would look at Jacob and think of all the Black portrayals in games we better start a focus group so we are not sued? That makes no sense. It is unreasonable to expect foreign nations to create products that fit perfectly into your cultural norms.

 

I am saying that National differences will create priorities that don't line up with other nations. Over the last 25 years i think LGBT minority issues were by far a more important issue than race relations for Canada as a whole because shocker Canada not being the States doesn't have the same social issues. I'd say that the biggest race relation issue Canada has is Aboriginal and getting all Aboriginal communities a change to be part of the greater Canadian community be it infrastructure, economic opportunities and addressing specific issues like the vulnerability of aboriginal women to the worse offences in the criminal code. Yet Aboriginal issues in the states are almost never reported on.

 

So what Canada has to solve its own problems and be expected to solve the fraking US' racial problems? I don't think so. Till such time as US stop gunning down it own unarmed citizens i really think Americans need to STFU about how Canada deals with race relationships. And yeah I think Canada can LOOK down on the US on this issue because we clearly have a superior record. Race doesn't come up in our Elections we have an extremely diverse cabinet (Aka the people who actually run government departments) Are things perfect. No because Canada is populated by humans and humans are flawed. But there is a measurable difference. Sorry but Rob fraking Ford is a false equivalency, he doesn't magically make canada and the US the same, because hey no place is perfect see Rob ford. Yeah like the one example you can take from Canada to show we are not perfect is a mayor doing drugs. oh how many countries would wish that the example people use to show their country isn't perfect is a mayor doing drugs? lol.

 

What is the biblical saying "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." I just find is really interesting that this so apt to the conversation. Terrible Bioware for not making their Black character black enough. Reminds me of a Canadian acquaintance who went to Unie in the states and was called an Oero cookie by black people because he didn't measure of to African American expectations of how a Black person should be. And these same Americans expect Canadian writers to just Write acceptable Black characters because we deserve it. Yeah i think my friend deserved to be treated like a fraking Canadian not an "Oreo cookie."

 

Sure go after Jacob because he isn't the best character. Let cage the discussion of there are some regional issues in a SEPARATE country may make the character not the best racial representation in the USA so that is bioware being terrible. Yet Canada doesn't have these racial Stereotypes for Black people certainly not in western Canada. Yet Canada must be held to account for American standards? It is the arrogance that is boggling that you should know, you should research how we Americans feel. i doubt the average American can name our prime minister, yet we Canadians we should know how every fraking fictional character could and should be perceived in the states AND we should know enough about US culture, no, a US minority Culture to be responsible for and to create a great African American role model. Doesn't matter that Black people make up only 2% of your country's total population you should do it because we are the U S fraking A.

 

Get over yourself.

[von uber]

Surely:

 

[Seboist]

Jacob was hardly stereotypical in the context of ME2. He wasn't even that bad of a character. And the community hated him, lol. 

Disliked how they expected that brooding dullard to all of a sudden be my "black brutha" towards the end of the game with his "spill some drinks" line.

[Furisco]

This topic turned out like every discussion about minority, people see racism on everything these days...

 

Jacob was a lame character because of writing and not because he was black. Everyone was represented in Mass Effect. Hell, we could have a relationship with ALIENS. I think that says a lot about Bioware.

[Revan Reborn]

<unintelligible nonsense>

I try to be respectful and respond to posts in the best way I can, but I'm not even sure what you are rambling on about anymore.

 

What started out as BioWare doing a poor job of tying up loose ends with Jacob somehow devolved into an incredibly stupid, high level of unintelligible hogwash that nobody can bother to translate nor would want to.

 

I don't know why you are insecure. I don't know why you feel compelled to attack the United States. All I know is you are in a cyclical battle with yourself in which there are no winners. For your sake, and the community's, come back to reality and end the insanity.

[Kaweebo]

Honestly, I thought it was interesting how Jacob tried to put up a 'I'm better than my father' shtick while also being kind of a dickhead. I got that vibe all the way back in ME2, but never got the sense that it was racist. And having a romance partner that cheats on you is honestly an interesting dynamic that's never happened in a Bioware game. (Usually, it's you who's the cheater :/)  I don't look at characters through racial goggles though so the 'but why's he gotta be black tho' question never came up.

[Gothfather]

I try to be respectful and respond to posts in the best way I can, but I'm not even sure what you are rambling on about anymore.

 

What started out as BioWare doing a poor job of tying up loose ends with Jacob somehow devolved into an incredibly stupid, high level of unintelligible hogwash that nobody can bother to translate nor would want to.

 

I don't know why you are insecure. I don't know why you feel compelled to attack the United States. All I know is you are in a cyclical battle with yourself in which there are no winners. For your sake, and the community's, come back to reality and end the insanity.

 

Dude the original poster CLEARLY made a racial connection to Jacob, beyond the fact that Jacob was black, and the treatment of his character. Stop trying to change the narrative to me out of no where getting hyper sensitive/insecure about racism being brought up.

 

And the entire criticism is cage in a "you should know better" style. i point out that Canada isn't the US and I get extremely arrogant responses that that is no excuse. What Canadians shouldn't have a completely different perspective on race in a completely different country where we don't even have similar demographics? What Canada should just automatically conform to the US on race issues? And this is unintelligible hogwash to you?

 

i also love how pointing out actual facts about the US is attacking it. You didn't say American is the greatest, you said we gun down our citizen (a FACT) you are attacking us!!!

[Seboist]

Honestly, I thought it was interesting how Jacob tried to put up a 'I'm better than my father' shtick while also being kind of a dickhead. I got that vibe all the way back in ME2, but never got the sense that it was racist. And having a romance partner that cheats on you is honestly an interesting dynamic that's never happened in a Bioware game. (Usually, it's you who's the cheater :/)  I don't look at characters through racial goggles though so the 'but why's he gotta be black tho' question never came up.

That was just a consequence of jacob's 'mance being very unpopular, not unlike how morinth ended up being a generic banshee on earth.

[Ruadh]

Get back tae Tumblr, ya bawbag.

[Revan Reborn]

Dude the original poster CLEARLY made a racial connection to Jacob, beyond the fact that Jacob was black, and the treatment of his character. Stop trying to change the narrative to me out of no were getting hyper sensitive/insecure about racism being brought up.

 

And the entire criticism is cage in a "you should know better" style. i point out that Canada isn't the US and I get extremely arrogant responses that that is no excuse. What Canadians shouldn't have a completely different perspective on race in a completely different country where we don't even have similar demographics? What Canada should just automatically conform to the US on race issues? And this is unintelligible hogwash to you?

Whether BioWare was being intentionally stereotypical or not is a matter of subjective mindset. My only issue here is the fact that FemSheps lost out on rekindling the relationship they had with Jacob based on events they could not control. That was not the case for any other companion. I will not speak for the OP nor will I assume what he/she intends. What I do know is that Jacob could have been handled better.

[PrinceofTime]

The BSN delivers with the cancerous threads once again. 

 

Oh the SJW woes.