39 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowdragon]

I have played all the games and in each i noticed the templars have increacingly disappointes me through the whole thing i spoke with some and he even sais that their main issue is they should kill all mages just because they might be possessed but the issue isnt mages alone all beings get possessed if their weak mages are just targeted moee because of power templars easily get fooled by desire demons and pride demons its funny they believe their better but some mages want to live alone and contemplate magic at its base templars have even taken lengths as to force tranquility on mages making them not even people its like gouging a soul out so mages should have some restrictions but also freedom to go places

[thats1evildude]

I don't ... I don't know how to respond.

[CardButton]

Where is the punctuation?! WHERE IS IT?!  I CANNOT UN-SEE! 

 

Edit: If it weren't for the fact that joining the Templars is akin to the mass-murder of the mages in DA2 I would have always sided with them.  Also, if I found the Rebel Mages in DA:I so completely short-sighted and idiotic and if it weren't for the fact that they're holding the entire town or Redcliffe hostage I wouldn't think twice about siding with Templars there either (I still side with the Templars in DA:I, I just have to put more thought into it).

[thesuperdarkone2]

Your OP makes it pretty clear which side you're on, so why make this thread unless you want people to justify their choices?

[MisterJB]

Mein Gott... I had never thought of it that way. This changes everything!

[CoM Solaufein]

Mages. Everyone likes mages.

[AnimalBoy]

I'll just say that i side with the mages every single time. I pretty much share Leliana's opinion word for word.

[Kaweebo]

Regardless of my opinion on either side, mages just makes more sense to me. We're trying to close the breach and pouring magic into the mark is our best option and all Cullen can muster up is, 'Well, the Templars can do stuff, too!' without even providing an example of their power. Actual power over vague promises, every time. And this is also ignoring our treatment by the Lord Seeker in Val Royeaux and the circumstances surrounding the mages in Redcliffe. 

 

So, yes

 

Mages. Everyone likes mages.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Templars , even at their worst they don't cause disasters threatening entire Thedas and attempting blow up world , same can't be said about mages.There isn't any risks of abominations and psycho blood mages demolishing your own forces with templars, not to mention templars are more liked than mages that aren't very liked to put it lightly.

 

Mages on other hand constantly cause problems and disasters, that we have to clean and overall aren't disciplined like templars , have very little military experience, they also are unstable and dangerous for everyone around.  

[Cute Nug]

Difficult to stomach mages in DAI with the way Fiona is presented. On the plus side, Orsino is no longer the worst DA mage.

 

Fiona is so horrible in DAI I tried to see if she would open something thinking she might actually be one of those evil DAI shards you have to find as punishment for getting the jump action.

[Vanilka]

I am and will always remain neutral on the matter. I don't think I can judge an entire group, especially when its factions and members may vary so much. Mages don't even belong to an organisation. Mages can be healers or murderers, kind or cruel, activists or simple villagers, etc., they're bound by no vows, no duties, no policy.

 

All that said, I've grown increasingly frustrated with mages since DAII. While I don't support what Meredith was doing in the slightest, the fact is that Kirkwall was full of evil, murderous, insane mages. Every time I stood up for mages, five seconds from then I encountered yet another blood mage that was perfectly fine with killing or yet another summoned demon or yet another abomination. The second and third act of the game are pretty much the "This is why we can't have nice things," stage for me. And I play mage Hawke... Kirkwall was a bloody hell hole.

 

Then comes DAI where no matter which side you take, the mages in Redcliffe are incredibly STUPID. You ally with the templars and the mages side with Corypheus and pretty much attempt to destroy the world. You choose the Redcliffe mages and it's revealed they were not only stupid enough to willingly become Alexius' pets despite already having refuge in Redcliffe, he also obviously manipulates them; then Alexius actually destroys the world and you're just lucky enough to be able to travel back in time in order to fix it. Whenever I'm returning to Haven with my Lavellan that allies with the Redcliffe mages, I half-expect Cullen to tell her, "I bloody told you," or something along those lines because he predicted the situation pretty much perfectly.

 

I don't think it's a problem of all mages, though. Because, as I said, mages are not really an organised group and they couldn't possibly be more varied. The thing is that our encounters with mages have been rather frustrating for the past two games, in my opinion. I can't really say the same about templars besides a few individuals.

 

DAI also pretty much pushes you between a rock and a hard place because, on one hand, we expect the templars to be more organised and they're trained to handle weird magical crap, which, in my opinion, might make them the superior choice (Well, I choose depending on my character anyway.), but the mages in Redcliffe under the influence of Alexius who obviously wants the Herald dead, are a tragedy just waiting to happen. Plus, having mages pour power into the mark is not a bad idea, either. (I suppose you can just ignore the Redcliffe quest completely if you wish to side with the templars. The Herald not knowing about Alexius makes stuff easier.)

[AnimalBoy]

Vote Anders/Fiona 2016.

[Tidus]

In my games the Templars seal their doom early in the game at Val Royeaux because of their actions,what the Lord Seeker said and  that one asp that hit the Mother and later said  "you have a higher calling"  I wanted to run him through right there.

[Ashagar]

Honestly I saved the circle in origins, reluctantly sided with the Templars in DAII and in inquisition recruited the Templars because it made more sense for most of my playthoughs, only playing a dalish elf did I recruit the mages and boy did I want to kill the lot of the rebel mages...

 

At least the Templars see what they did wrong and set out try to redeem themselves while the mages are self-righteous about what they did including murdering other mages to 'free' them(The whole reason the loyalist faction exists and why there are mages hiding from the rebel mages as well as the rouge Templars) and in general went out of their way to show people's fears of mages are warranted. The sack of tranquil skulls in Redcliff and the mage clearly in support of the alliance and who I subject likely murdered your mentor if you were a circle mages was just the icing on the cake.

[Catilina]

Rebel mage forever – as inquisitor too.

 

(The Circles can be useful: if they turn into study centers, instead prisons. The themplars can stay too: for guarding the towers, but not the mages.)

[Barquiel]

I don't think I can bring myself to ever side with the templars. They pretty much epitomize everything I despise and at the end of the game, mages are enjoying unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas without their "protection".

[thesuperdarkone2]

I don't think I can bring myself to ever side with the templars. They pretty much epitomize everything I despise and at the end of the game, mages are enjoying unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas without their "protection".

This. Plus, there is literally no reason for me not to side with the mages after the templars essentially tell me to go to hell, the time magic and venatori revelations, and knowing that I'll lose the mages if I go to the templars.

 

There is literally no reason not to help out the mages first as there is nothing telling you that you'll lose the templars if you help out the mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Here's another little fun fact I found out about what happens if Leliana is divine and you sided with the templars:

 

With the Inquisition at an end as it once had been, the few surviving mages who had served it found themselves with nowhere to go. The Divine had declared the Circle over, but something needed to take its place. Vivienne led many of the old guard to form a new Circle, surprising absolutely no one when it immediately elected her as its Grand Enchanter. The remainder of the Inquisition's veteran mages formed a rival organization, the College of Enchanters.

 

 

That pretty much means literally THE MAJORITY OF ALL MAGES IN THEDAS ARE DEAD if you sided with the Templars. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of literally killing nearly every mage from the Circle.

[Kakistos_]

This. Plus, there is literally no reason for me not to side with the mages after the templars essentially tell me to go to hell, the time magic and venatori revelations, and knowing that I'll lose the mages if I go to the templars.

 

There is literally no reason not to help out the mages first as there is nothing telling you that you'll lose the templars if you help out the mages.

 

Lets also not forget that the Templars started the war in the first place. Had they been more reasonable the war would have been prevented and much would be different. The Divine would still be alive and Corypheus would have had a much harder time enacting his plans.

[In Exile]

Here's another little fun fact I found out about what happens if Leliana is divine and you sided with the templars:

 

With the Inquisition at an end as it once had been, the few surviving mages who had served it found themselves with nowhere to go. The Divine had declared the Circle over, but something needed to take its place. Vivienne led many of the old guard to form a new Circle, surprising absolutely no one when it immediately elected her as its Grand Enchanter. The remainder of the Inquisition's veteran mages formed a rival organization, the College of Enchanters.

 

 

That pretty much means literally THE MAJORITY OF ALL MAGES IN THEDAS ARE DEAD if you sided with the Templars. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of literally killing nearly every mage from the Circle.

 

I'm not sure that's how I would parse that sentence. It says the few surviving mages who had served it. I understand that you read "few surviving mages" to refer to all mages, but I read it as being modified by "served it", i.e., few mages that served the Inquisition survived, not few mages survived. Although there's no real evidence of the latter, either. 

[CardButton]

Here's another little fun fact I found out about what happens if Leliana is divine and you sided with the templars:

 

With the Inquisition at an end as it once had been, the few surviving mages who had served it found themselves with nowhere to go. The Divine had declared the Circle over, but something needed to take its place. Vivienne led many of the old guard to form a new Circle, surprising absolutely no one when it immediately elected her as its Grand Enchanter. The remainder of the Inquisition's veteran mages formed a rival organization, the College of Enchanters.

 

 

That pretty much means literally THE MAJORITY OF ALL MAGES IN THEDAS ARE DEAD if you sided with the Templars. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of literally killing nearly every mage from the Circle.

To be fair, you didn't kill them ... they killed themselves by having no plan outside of "FREEDOM"!  

 

You're lack of interference in the grave they dug for themselves does not implicitly mean you killed them.  The same could be said about the Templars, where if you don't intervene the vast majority of them are destroyed, but at least in the case of the Templars most of them were being tricked, manipulated, forcibly drugged and corrupted without their knowledge by their already corrupted leadership ... rather than leading themselves to destruction by their own lack of planning and forethought.

 

Do I approve of "Freedom" from the Circles? Hell yes.  Do I approve with how Fiona went about it?  Hell no, it was an unmitigated disaster.  I chose to save the people who I thought were less directly responsible for their plight and to be honest, for me, that was the Templars in DA:I.  

[thats1evildude]

Lets also not forget that the Templars started the war in the first place.

Hardly. Uldred tried to take over Kinloch Hold. Anders blew up the Kirkwall Chantry. A mage tried to kill the Divine. Adrian killed Pharamond. Fiona tried to hold a vote for independence during the first conclave. All these actions put us in the path to war.

[thats1evildude]

That pretty much means literally THE MAJORITY OF ALL MAGES IN THEDAS ARE DEAD if you sided with the Templars. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of literally killing nearly every mage from the Circle.

The majority of rebel mages IN THE SOUTH. Tevinter still has plenty. And besides, as Cardbutton said, it was their own fault.

Besides joining the Inquisition, some loyal mages found other ways to survive, like serving patrons. And more mages will always be born.

[In Exile]

Hardly. Uldred tried to take over Kinloch Hold. Anders blew up the Kirkwall Chantry. A mage tried to kill the Divine. Adrian killed Pharamond. Fiona tried to hold a vote for independence during the first conclave. All these actions put us in the path to war.

 

Did Kinloch really matter? It seems like the Fereldan Circle continued to be pretty much the same afterwards, based on what we see in Witch Hunt.

[thesuperdarkone2]

To be fair, you didn't kill them ... they killed themselves by having no plan outside of "FREEDOM"!  

 

You're lack of interference in the grave they dug for themselves does not implicitly mean you killed them.  The same could be said about the Templars, where if you don't intervene the vast majority of them are destroyed, but at least in the case of the Templars most of them were being tricked, manipulated, forcibly drugged and corrupted without their knowledge by their already corrupted leadership ... rather than leading themselves to destruction by their own lack of planning and forethought.

 

Do I approve of "Freedom" from the Circles? Hell yes.  Do I approve with how Fiona went about it?  Hell no, it was an unmitigated disaster.  I chose to save the people who I thought were less directly responsible for their plight and to be honest, for me, that was the Templars in DA:I.  

Except you know the vast majority of the mages blatantly say they would have never done the alliance and Fiona was the only one who did it.

 

Also, how are the mages completely responsible for the rebellion? Did you forget how the templars imposed restrictions on the circles which turned them into actual prisons for something they didn't do? Did you forget how Lambert straight up always knew and tried to hide the secret of the cure for Tranquility? How about the implication that the Templars intentionally tried to get Justinia assassinated for being pro-mage? or Lambert boasting how he just wanted an excuse to kill mages or Cole saying that he pretty much planned on usurp control of the Chantry (yeah, having someone like this in charge is totally would result in no war /s).

 

 

Heck, by the time Lambert began his war, the mages literally had no choice but to rebel unless they wanted to become no better than slaves. Heck, Asunder makes it clear that if the mages surrendered to the templars, at best the Circles would become actual prisons and any rights circle supporters like to trump around would be permanently gone, or at worst they would all be killed or made tranquil. Do you really think mages should have just accepted the situation like that?

 

Also, it's funny how you think the mages are completely responsible for the war when their actions imply otherwise. The last time there was a vote for independence, the vote failed because the mages didn't want to start a war. Heck, in Asunder, the mages were stuck in Circles that were literally prisons yet the mages were totally fine until the templars started to attack them. It's pretty much made clear that had Fiona's vote not been interrupted, the vote for independence would have failed because the mages didn't want a war yet.it's made abundantly clear that the mage freedom vote at the end of Asunder only passed because the rest of the mages finally had enough of being terrorized by the Templars, meaning there constant attempts to prevent mage rebellion ironically wound up causing it in the first place.

 

Furthermore, there are many mages who only got into the rebellion because the templars forced them into it in the first place. Heck, the backstory for a human mage inquisitor straight up says that regardless of whether they were pro-circle or not, they had to join the rebellion because the templars were trying to KILL them. Do you really think that any of those child mages would be spared if the templars got to them?

 

That's not to getting how the templars are still the same mage-hating douchebags I've always hated. The worst the mages do is complain about how they live or about being treated like prisoners, unlike the templars who complain that the Inquisition isn't punishing mages. That's not even getting into the Silver Shield where they straight up refuse to serve Divine Viv because she's a mage and are plotting to overthrow her merely for being a mage.

 

All this series has shown is that mage hate has been a great cause of many problems throughout the series. In Inquisition, if Leliana is Divine, the mages, once given their freedom, decide to create a new College where they can study and train in peace. No magisters, no rampant abominations or blood magic; the mages just want to study and help people in peace. Thus, fears of what mages will do if they are free start to look a bit like fear-mongering.

 

Thus, one can see that the mages were forced into their situation merely because people hated mages. Meanwhile, the templars chose everything they do. They CHOSE to be templars, they CHOSE to remain rebel templars instead of leaving, joining the Inquisition, or remaining with the Chantry, they CHOSE to take red lyrium. The templars chose every bad thing they've ever done. This isn't helped by the games making it clear that moral templars are the clear minority, the good templars are essentially bullied by the scumbag, mage-hating majority, and templars are preferred more for being fanatical than actually being decent people. Therefore, them being destroyed as a result of their attempts to destroy mages seems like fitting punishment