By virtue of the Warden's interference. I imagine things might have been different if a small army of abominations had been set loose on Ferelden.Did Kinloch really matter? It seems like the Fereldan Circle continued to be pretty much the same afterwards, based on what we see in Witch Hunt.
Here's another little fun fact I found out about what happens if Leliana is divine and you sided with the templars:
With the Inquisition at an end as it once had been, the few surviving mages who had served it found themselves with nowhere to go. The Divine had declared the Circle over, but something needed to take its place. Vivienne led many of the old guard to form a new Circle, surprising absolutely no one when it immediately elected her as its Grand Enchanter. The remainder of the Inquisition's veteran mages formed a rival organization, the College of Enchanters.
That pretty much means literally THE MAJORITY OF ALL MAGES IN THEDAS ARE DEAD if you sided with the Templars. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of literally killing nearly every mage from the Circle.
One, the rebel mages only make up a slight majority and they tried to murder nearly half the southern mages because they were either A. Loyalists or B wanted to remain neutral, they are unrepentant about that which is why mage endings that don't end up with Foina and her followers getting wiped out all have rumors of a mage civil war. That also means that many of those mages were not killed by Templars or the inquisition but by their follow mages to' free' them in death. The rebel mages are join us or we will murder you. The rebels are just as bad as the radical Templars and unlike the Templars they never see it and try to redeem themselves which does not bode well for the future of any mage ending in the long run.
Two. those few mages in that ending were still large enough in numbers to form not one but two separate rival organizations.
One, the rebel mages only make up a slight majority and they tried to murder nearly half the southern mages because they were either A. Loyalists or B wanted to remain neutral, they are unrepentant about that which is why mage endings that don't end up with Foina and her followers getting wiped out all have rumors of a mage civil war. That also means that many of those mages were not killed by Templars or the inquisition but by their follow mages to' free' them in death.
Sorry but this is blatantly false. We see non-rebel mages in Redcliff and nobody tried to murder them. Mages like Connor or the elderly mage in the tavern fled to Redcliff because the templars wanted to kill all mages and Fiona's mages didn't have any problems with them.
This, plus in a world state where the mages were conscripted under Divine Cass, Viv's ending pretty much says she did everything she could to silence the pro-freedom elements into obscurity. They had enough and decided to split into the College.
That kind of proves the shadow war was caused by Viv, and the mage civil war was also caused by Viv. It would be completely in character for her.
This, plus in a world state where the mages were conscripted under Divine Cass, Viv's ending pretty much says she did everything she could to silence the pro-freedom elements into obscurity. They had enough and decided to split into the College.
That kind of proves the shadow war was caused by Viv, and the mage civil war was also caused by Viv. It would be completely in character for her.
mhhhmm ya got anything more direct, like an actual source for that?\
And not just your own bias against Vivienne?
Sorry but this is blatantly false. We see non-rebel mages in Redcliff and nobody tried to murder them. Mages like Connor or the elderly mage in the tavern fled to Redcliff because the templars wanted to kill all mages and Fiona's mages didn't have any problems with them.
Sorry but they don't count because they joined the rebel camp so they were no longer neutral mages. There is plenty of evidence is that the rebels indeed tried to murder mages for trying to stay neutral or were chantry loyalists, indeed which was the direct cause for the creation of the loyalist faction which consists of not just the loyalist fraternity but members of the isolationists and the other minor fraternities, it also drove a sizable number of mages into hiding from both the Templars and the rebel mages some of whom the inquisition can recruit in war table missions.
Also the enchanter inquisitor had their mentor murdered for trying to stay neutral and that circle archivist was also murdered by the rebel mages to quote unquote free them in death in spite of being a threat to nobody and that is just examples from two circles.
This, plus in a world state where the mages were conscripted under Divine Cass, Viv's ending pretty much says she did everything she could to silence the pro-freedom elements into obscurity. They had enough and decided to split into the College.
That kind of proves the shadow war was caused by Viv, and the mage civil war was also caused by Viv. It would be completely in character for her.
Hmm no I seriously doubt that the shadow war wouldn't have happen if Viv wasn't around or the mage civil war. Someone else would have taken the helm as there is as I noted before evidence for other mages to have hostility towards the former rebel mages.
Hmm no I seriously doubt that the shadow war wouldn't have happen if Viv wasn't around or the mage civil war. Someone else would have taken the helm as there is as I noted before evidence for other mages to have hostility towards the former rebel mages.
Considering Vivienne straight up starts a mage civil war if Leliana is divine, I'd say that yeah, Vivienne is the one who starts the war.
And I say given what the rebel mages did and Fiona allowed to happen that even if Vivienne was not around the war, be it open or in the shadows, would happen regardless. The rebel mages sowed the seeds and reap the wild wind.
And I say given what the rebel mages did and Fiona allowed to happen that even if Vivienne was not around the war, be it open or in the shadows, would happen regardless. The rebel mages sowed the seeds and reap the wild wind.
Despite the fact that if Leliana is Divine, the College managed to train mages and exist peacefully without conflict until Vivienne decided to ruin everything.
Hardly. Uldred tried to take over Kinloch Hold. Anders blew up the Kirkwall Chantry. A mage tried to kill the Divine. Adrian killed Pharamond. Fiona tried to hold a vote for independence during the first conclave. All these actions put us in the path to war.
These are individual acts, not declarations of war by entire groups. Hostility and open war fare between Mages and Templars began when Lord Seeker Lambert, leader of the Templars and Seekers, marched the bulk of the entire Templar Order to purge the Mages.
"I'm told the Chantry broke it, but it was Lord Seeker Lambert who made the announcement. He said the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order were going to hunt rebel mages, no matter what the Divine commanded. I didn't know he had that authority, that he could just say we would do this and everyone would follow... but we did. I never thought of it that way, but the Seekers have always been our guides. Now they've led us into war." - Codex Entry The Seekers of Truth
Other than Fiona who was grand enchanter which makes her more than just a individual and there is also the fact that there was organizated mages causing trouble in lore including killing people and practicing blood magic since DA2 or does forgot the liberationists not count inspite of being a organized magic terrorist group. This was not a magical one sided conflict started by the 'evil' Templars but something that was built up. No matter how much some like to demonize the Templars and make the mages out to be saints.
These are individual acts, not declarations of war by entire groups. Hostility and open war fare between Mages and Templars began when Lord Seeker Lambert, leader of the Templars and Seekers, marched the bulk of the entire Templar Order to purge the Mages.
"I'm told the Chantry broke it, but it was Lord Seeker Lambert who made the announcement. He said the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order were going to hunt rebel mages, no matter what the Divine commanded. I didn't know he had that authority, that he could just say we would do this and everyone would follow... but we did. I never thought of it that way, but the Seekers have always been our guides. Now they've led us into war." - Codex Entry The Seekers of Truth
Not rly , mages did that with trying to escape from being supervised and refusing to give up a murder suspect effectively becoming criminals themselves.
Lets also not forget that the Templars started the war in the first place. Had they been more reasonable the war would have been prevented and much would be different. The Divine would still be alive and Corypheus would have had a much harder time enacting his plans.
One can just as easily say that had the mages been more reasonable and remained in the Circles, there wouldn't have been a war.
Ultimately, actions have consequences and if you push people against a wall, they will push back as the pro-mages see fit to remind us on a regular basis.
Fiona and every other mage knew that a declaration of independence would lead to a war. They still went ahead with it. Therefore, they may not have oficially declared the war but they accepted it as a consequence.
I'm sure that you could point out how the mages found the alternative unnaceptable and thus were forced into war. Just as I could point how the Templars found the alternative unnaceptable and thus were forced into war.
I usually go mages 'cause they're big mistake was being stupid. The Templars are Lucius (yes, I know there are good ones too). Plus the Hushed Whispers is just the easier way to go. I hate timers.
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