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What can Bioware and ME:A learn from Dragon Age Inquisition?


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#76
AlanC9

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It was. Look over Hawke's shoulder just before he or she strikes Cory down(this is easiest with a mage, as the killing scene is a bit longer) and you see whichever Warden you aided stagger. At the same time, Cory's eyes go black. Then, when you talk to them they give off an extremely creepy vibe through their mannerisms and dialogue.


It's amazing how much better the DA team is than the ME team at pulling off this sort of thing.
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#77
Gwydden

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Well, I don't like any open -world implementations. DAI's struck me as no worse than others. Do I count?

The only other open world games I can remember playing are Skyrim and Kingdoms of Amalur. The former I got bored of and dropped after I arrived to the first town. For the latter I did a completitionist run that I enjoyed quite a fair bit and I didn't get burned out until I was near the end. After I'm done reading the books I plan to try The Witcher 3 to see if it really handles it as well as people say.

 

I think what KoA did right was that each area had its own little story with considerable dialogue to flesh it out, which I found engaging. The faction questlines and the fact that there was not one but three decent cities in the entire map also helped a lot.



#78
Sarayne

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Bring the emotional wheel from Inquisition to Andromeda  because people always say they hate how you are forced to feel sad about Thessia. If they had that wheel there you could have picked how you felt about it.
Personally I like how inquisition did romance and companion dialogue. Mainly because compared to their previous games you had a lot more cut scenes with them back at base.


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#79
pdusen

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Look, there were parts of DA:I I found tedious, and the ending was pretty lackluster, but shouting over and over again about how terrible it was is not likely to change the general opinion about it, which is that it was quite good.

 

I'll even grant that TW3 is better, but since TW3 is astoundingly good, that can't really be seen as a slight against DA:I.

 

Too many people here seem to feel that their experiences are universal.


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#80
Gwydden

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Look, there were parts of DA:I I found tedious, and the ending was pretty lackluster, but shouting over and over again about how terrible it was is not likely to change the general opinion about it, which is that it was quite good.

All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

 

Or in less melodramatic terms, if no one criticizes DAI, the good folks at Bioware are bound to think it's perfect and release another game with the same issues.

 

I'll even grant that TW3 is better, but since TW3 is astoundingly good, that can't really be seen as a slight against DA:I.

Wouldn't know. I've only just played the first two games and, while I think they're amazing and that there are a few things that are worth learning from them, open world implementation isn't one (because they don't have any, obviously).

 

Too many people here seem to feel that their experiences are universal.

I don't think DAI is objectively a bad game. Personally I found it awful, but it's clear many people here got some enjoyment out of it. While that baffles me I'm guessing it means it did some things right.


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#81
Quarian Princess

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-Alien: Isolation

-Dark Souls II

-Destiny

-Bayonetta II

-Super Smash Bros.

-Grand Theft Auto V

-Shadow of Mordor

-Wolfenstein: The New Order

 

There was plenty of choices for games people might have liked in 2014.

 

Edit: All of these games had reasonable launches without too much negativity so they all could have been contenders.

 

GTAV was released in 2013, not sure why it is up for nomination again in 2014.

 

Of those games listed of course there are a few that were better than Inquisition depending on your preferences however the point was none of them are that brilliant either, the point was that Inquisition won because it was a pretty bad year and there wasnt much competition (even if I do agree that despite being a bad year there were still better games than Inquisition).



#82
KaiserShep

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Bring the emotional wheel from Inquisition to Andromeda  because people always say they hate how you are forced to feel sad about Thessia. If they had that wheel there you could have picked how you felt about it.
Personally I like how inquisition did romance and companion dialogue. Mainly because compared to their previous games you had a lot more cut scenes with them back at base.

 

 

I agree with this, the reaction wheel in particular. Shepard really could have used this from time to time. 


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#83
pdusen

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Or in less melodramatic terms, if no one criticizes DAI, the good folks at Bioware are bound to think it's perfect and release another game with the same issues.

 

At this point, I don't think there's any danger of them thinking it's perfect.



#84
The Qun & the Damned

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People did not like the crafting? Granted I personally was not all that fond of it and have mixed feelings but I thought most people considered it one of the more redeemable aspects of the game?

I liked crafting. No needed perks, just build (almost) anything and (almost) everything. My issue was the lack of sword schematics (I really wanted the Murder Sword Leliana gives you) and the gods annoying RNG looting system. Sca-rew RNG.



#85
Linkenski

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Bring the emotional wheel from Inquisition to Andromeda  because people always say they hate how you are forced to feel sad about Thessia. If they had that wheel there you could have picked how you felt about it.
Personally I like how inquisition did romance and companion dialogue. Mainly because compared to their previous games you had a lot more cut scenes with them back at base.

Better yet, make a bigger contrast to being diplomatic vs blunt and bigger contrast between happy and angry, essentially the emotional wheel with ME1/2 badass renegade choices too. It would make for the most entertaining and role-playable Bioware protagonist yet IMO.


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#86
wolfsite

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GTAV was released in 2013, not sure why it is up for nomination again in 2014.

 

Found out why, that was the re-release date for the PS4 and XBox 1 versions of the game.  After re-reading a few articles some places were treating it like the PS3/360 versions never existed.  Then you have the PC version in 2015 (then the staggering of the online component.

 

It did win a few awards in the 2014 cycle in best remaster categories so that is where the confusion comes from.



#87
rapscallioness

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I enjoyed DAI, but if it were a guy, it would be FriendZoned. You know, I like you, but I'm just not that into you. No hard feelings?

 

I like crafting, but it became a bit overwhelming for me because I would craft for all my companions. I wanted them all up to speed in case I needed them later.  So, 10 people including Quizzy. The weapons and armor and all the bells and whistles for that; and then all the herb harvesting and implementing for various potions and tonics and grenades.

 

Taking a minimalist approach to crafting is really not viable because so many attributes are assigned to the weapons or armor instead of the characters, so it puts you at a disadvantage if you do not craft. In addition, there are no good loot drops for armor, and only occasionally for weapons like Gift of the Mountain God, or something. The good loot drops were in the form of schematics to be crafted.

 

My favorite main quest in DAI was the Adamant Fortress/Herein Lies the Abyss one. That was my favorite because it had good meat on its bones. Hitting the fortress and battling through; the dragon showing up; then falling into the fade and all that. One of my favorite quests of all time.

 

I'd like to see more of those kinds of quests in ME:A. Solid, layered, long-ish, and barely escaping with your life after being put through the wringer.


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#88
vbibbi

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Look, there were parts of DA:I I found tedious, and the ending was pretty lackluster, but shouting over and over again about how terrible it was is not likely to change the general opinion about it, which is that it was quite good.

 

I'll even grant that TW3 is better, but since TW3 is astoundingly good, that can't really be seen as a slight against DA:I.

 

Too many people here seem to feel that their experiences are universal.

I wouldn't worry. For everyone who complains about something in DAI, there are at least three people willing to say that their opinion is objectively wrong without providing any supporting information. It's only subjective if it's a criticism about a widely debated topic, otherwise it's objective that the game is wonderful and should not receive constructive criticism.

 

And people complaining about features they didn't like are automatically attempting to sway people's opinions, and not try to demonstrate what they do and do not want included in the next Bioware game(s).


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#89
Bad King

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There are a few positives that BioWare could take from DA:I and apply to ME:A. For a start, Calpernia is a more complex, compelling and morally grey antagonist than ME3's main antagonists who all turn out to just be indoctrinated reaper stooges (TIM was a great character in ME2 but his ME3 incarnation is just moronic). Also, their conservatism over squad mate deaths in Inquisition was the right move: in ME2, all of your squad mates could potentially die which had a detrimental effect on ME3's development whereas with future DA instalments, the writers can invest more time into writing detailed stories for returning characters without having to invest effort into developing dull replacement characters to cover instances in which those characters died.

 

One other concept that should be carried forward is the War Table, though drastic improvements need to be made. This would mean better integration of it into the game world with dialogue and cutscenes, and of course ensuring that no contradictions between war table info and info gleaned from other sources in the game exists (see Sebastian the simultaneous Prince and advisor).


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#90
Giantdeathrobot

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Although I'm not 100% with the comparison, it has a lot of meritis, although I'd prefer to compare ME1 with DA2. 

Regardless, both this comparisons show just how the moment and the trend of the game community influence how people judge a game. ME1's story could be finished in three hours, maybe less. Its side quests had maybe three different levels they were repeated dozen of times.  Its planets were basically all the same with a different texture and a different skyline. Technically the game was a mess. We're talking about drops to up to 5 fps and a game that could never keep a steady 30. Textures that took ages to load and game crashing bugs that could corrupt entire saves. All this stuff are fact. I'm not making anything up.

But Mass Effect was extremely well received. It has a metacritic user score almost as high as Mass Effect 2. Why? Becuase the game community is as much successive to 'collective bias' as reviewers to personal ones.

When ME1 was released, there was a common thought that allowed people, at least those that are vocal in the internet, to look past all those flaws and see the amazing qualities ME1 had, it was pre-EA Bioware after all, they guys that made Baldur Gate II and KoTOR. But can anyone honestly imagine the same happening with Andromeda if it has even one or two of those flaws, even if it is a better game? Am I too bold to affirm people will blame EA and say Bioware is falling ever deeper? I don't think I am. 

 

This isn't exclusive to EA at all, sadly. In today's culture of internet outrage, one or two issues can be blown out of proportion and taint the reception of a game easily.

 

For instance, XCOM 2 is by and large very well received (rightfully so IMO) but because it suffers from performance problems and adds timers to the game to force players to try more than one tactic, it got blasted on Steam and Metacritic with many 0s and 1s and such. Now, I'm perfectly fine with people disliking those aspects, and I do find the performance to be inexcusable for a PC exclusive game that was delayed. But a 0? For that? When the rest of the game is so high quality? Come on now. Not to mention that so many user reviews boil down to "it's hard and I can miss 90% shots, so it sucks". Which is just ludicrous, XCOM is all about being unforgiving. This isn't Call of Duty, these aliens aren't going to fall over just because you point a gun at them.

 

The most extreme example I always use is Company of Heroes 2, a WW2 RTS that portrayed the Soviets in a light that wasn't very flattering but also not very far from reality at all. A few russian youtubers told their followers to bomb the game's ratings, and it sits at 2 in user score. It's not a perfect game by any means, and inferior to the original as far as I'm concerned, but 2 should be reserved for disastrous games that are inarguably **** or just don't work, not those with one controversial element.


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#91
MileyChicken

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Here are some things that seem like they might be relevant.

1. Don't skimp too much on the "cinematic" or at least close up camera
 

 

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#92
SporkFu

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Dragon fights. More please. With no hand-wringing about whether or not we should kill them.

I want to be driving along in the MAKO, listening to Space Truckin', telling my squad that when they're driving they can pick the music, and then telling them that they can't drive, and then as we clear the top of a ridge we stumble across this big Andromedan dragon-equivalent.

And when the native Andromedan guide, who is along taking us to our next mission site, says, "uhh, we should leave now." I want to turn to him and say, "Oh hell no, we got jetpacks!"

#93
Revan Reborn

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Dragon fights. More please. With no hand-wringing about whether or not we should kill them.

I want to be driving along in the MAKO, listening to Space Truckin', telling my squad that when they're driving they can pick the music, and then telling them that they can't drive, and then as we clear the top of a ridge we stumble across this big Andromedan dragon-equivalent.

And when the native Andromedan guide, who is along taking us to our next mission site, says, "uhh, we should leave now." I want to turn to him and say, "Oh hell no, we got jetpacks!"

While you are being chewed to bits and screaming at the top of your lungs, I'll use my mobile death star.

 

we-got-deathstar-o.gif

 

Yes, it fits in perfectly in the rear compartment of the Mako for easy access.



#94
SporkFu

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While you are being chewed to bits and screaming at the top of your lungs, I'll use my mobile death star.

Yes, it fits in perfectly in the rear compartment of the Mako for easy access.

Yeah. You know, I see the words 'mobile death star' but what I read is 'big win button' ....sounds like fun <_<

#95
Neophyte

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What can MEA learn from DAI? Don't copy it?

 

Contrary to popular belief, that game was far from perfect.

 

Exploration sucked. The open world sucked. The war table sucked. Load screens sucked. Upgrading Skyhold sucked. Not having a chest to store gear sucked. The throne segments were over-hyped and too brief. All dragon fights were virtually identical (I killed every single one). Romance options sucked. Blackwall sucked. Requisition missions sucked. Combat sucked. The main story was mediocre. The Inquisitor had the emotional role of a wooden plank. The game was pretty though.

 

Besides being pretty, yeah that's really all I want MEA to take away from DAI. I really don't know why BioWare can't just do a phenomenal job with Dragon Age like they did with Mass Effect.

 

Dragon fights were the worse, if you beat one you can beat them all, even on nightmare with trials+++

Besides everything you mentioned, actually design the game around some players reaching max level like the limited number of spells, having over 300k+ gold and excess power etc. 

 

If it weren't for the DLC's I would say the game was good but Trespasser made it great, I enjoyed Trespasser and Descent (I got engaged to the game the most here).

 

Other than that I think that the two games are pretty different and should remain such.
Nonetheless if you think of DA:I as origin story for the inquisition it's pretty good, actually great, if not well.. I can't wait for Tevinter :P

 

I have to disagree... I think people will forgive all kinds of technical issues if a game is fun to play.  ME1 had a good story and great characters that kept you interested even when doing some of the duller side quests, like driving around searching for resources.  In my opinion this is exactly what DAI failed to do.  A number of people describe it as a chore, or boring because the story lines failed to capture your attention.  ME1 made you care what happened, DAI not so much.  IMHO of course.

 

Basically this, even replaying ME1 now I don't notice some of the "mistakes" that I can't help but notice in DA:I.



#96
tanerb123

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I think the biggest learning is :Don't do half assed bad games.


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#97
Dutch's Ghost

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How to be a multi- Game of the Year award winner while still be hated by everyone because the word Witcher isn't in it's title.


Bioware won multiple GOTY's because

1) Mediocre year
2) DAI had LGBT presence
3) Bioware is Bioware

#98
PatrickBateman

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Don't release it far to early as they did with DA:I, that game was almost unplayable for lots of people until they had released a ton of patches, and when a new patch came it usually created a ton of new problems which had to be patched again etc.

And never ever implement such a total BS RNG loot system as DAMP have, the MEMP store was far better.

#99
Helios969

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Generally, how not to make a game.  More specifically how not to do a final boss fight...both from a difficulty aspect as well as the way it was structured to exclude most of your companions (who then act as participants.)



#100
wrdnshprd

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i hope they go back to the cinematic dialogue style of the ME trilogy, DAO and DA2.  many of the conversations in DAI felt like i was listening from an outsider perspective.  it was just awkward.

 

also, i felt they did the multiplayer right in DA:I.. the people that wanted it.. got it, and it didnt feel like it was intrusive to the single player story.