145 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

Okay, in all seriousness, although DA:I was not my favorite game, I do think there are some things Mass Effect could take from it.

 

The emphasis on building beautiful environments. I feel this will be even more crucial for a space opera game than a run-of-the-mill high fantasy. There have been moments of loveliness in the ME trilogy in terms of environment (the outside of the Shadow Broker's ship, perhaps, or the derelict reaper), but for the most part it's been pretty meh. It'll be the year 2016 or 2017; we really, really need to have our minds utterly blown by these alien and beautiful planets/moons.

 

The different voice options. This actually was quite nice. I used the British male and American female. Others had their own preferences. When you are stuck with a single race player character, this shouldn't be so hard to implement. And as dull as the inquisitor tended to be, s/he was still more lively than Shepard. Although I'm definitely more of a Hawke fan, if they're willing to go as far as the Inquisitor-level of voice-acting, I'll be happy. Much as I loved my Shepard, he basically had the emotional range of a mosquito.

 

The "In Your Heart Shall Burn" sequence. ME approached this only once for me, on the Arrival DLC. For the first time (I played this DLC way after I'd played the whole trilogy multiple times), my Shepard was on his own and not super confident about his situation. But it doesn't even compare to my shock and the emotional impact of "In Your Heart Shall Burn." I really didn't know what was going to happen to my Inquisitor. When he finally collapsed in the snow, my heart sank into my stomach, then a few seconds later, I think it's Cullen's voice (or perhaps Cassandra's) that calls out from the darkness, and I knew I was saved (and that my friends had made it, too). Amazing.

 

Okay, that's about all I can think of. Unfortunately, what I'm banking on getting is a game with massive environments that overwhelm the trite plot, my character's ability to only romance like 2 people out of 8 possibilities, and really, really bad hair. Oh, and the Mako. Because they think we were all dying for the Mako to return. 

[AlanC9]

The real criticism should be of the X06 demo. That had loads of cut content - a whole planet (which was repurposed to be Therum), interruptions, full squad control like KOTOR. The ME1 we see in that demo is in many fundamental ways not like the ME1 we got. It's pretty much exactly like the DAI vertical slice. Bioware had been over promising and under delivering since NWN1.

I am so glad I never saw that demo.

[Vortex13]

Enemy creatures have always been this way in all of the games, Origins included. The sacred ashes high dragon isn't a cunning creature with an alien intellect. It's just a big fiery dinosaur that tries to kill us because we summon it with a gong.

 

 

Gameplay "boss initiation" mechanic aside, the Sacred Ashes dragon was smart enough to utilize the Dragon Cult to secure an easy source of food, as well as a protection for its eggs. Now while that might not look like much consider how the dragon actually let the cult members freely roam among her nest as well as take and kill a small percentage of her eggs for the cultists' rites and rituals. 

 

It was certainly better than the DA:I dragons that were just wild beasts for the players to kill.

[eraserhead1990]

Please stay as far away from any 'grinding' mechanics as possible. That's the main thing I so hated about DAI; in order to move the story along you have to achieve X, Y and Z first. It's one of the main reasons I finally ragequit and traded the game in.

[Vortex13]

As a MP fan, I loved ME 3's take on it, but I was really disappointed in both the amount fun I had and the amount of support that the DAMP garnered and for how poorly the gamemode was designed overall. 

 

While the Mass Effect version was just BioWare's take on the simple horde mode formula they were able to keep the gameplay fresh and interesting with new kits, weapons, maps and enemies to fight; and all with a steady stream of new content within a month after the game released. Dragon Age on the other hand, was a dreary affair. The concept of a dungeon crawl quickly lost it's luster, especially when combined with the fact that there were only 3 very same-ish maps for the first couple months, only to be updated with a new cosmetic variation of those same maps. We had to wait over six months until we got some actual content for the MP, all the while being plagued with game breaking bugs, and a store that combined the frustration of RNG with a level of grind not see this side of Korean MMOs. 

 

This of course doesn't even begin to approach the annoyance with pre-set characters, not kits, available to play. Sure on paper the concept seems like a great idea (and games like Evolve manage to emulate said concept very well), but BioWare's take on it fell flat. Not only were our customization options limited to one of several pre-colored 'outfits' to wear, which came with pre-set bonuses; meaning that players would tend to equip the clothing that provided the best benefits, even if the look of the costume was god awful; but on top of that, the characters that we had available to us were super shallow. I mean I can only hear "Did anyone try that ham they had at camp the other day" so many times in a single room before I want to pull my ears off.

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I liked the concepts that BioWare explored (on paper), it's just that the execution of those ideas was horrible. I don't want to see BioWare shy away from things like customizable armor (complete with varying bonuses and stats) for instance. They just really need to look at the feedback from DAMP and use that gamemode as perfect example of what NOT to do when they are trying to incorporate new features. 

[ChessEffect]

As a MP fan, I loved ME 3's take on it, but I was really disappointed in both the amount fun I had and the amount of support that the DAMP garnered and for how poorly the gamemode was designed overall. 

 

etc etc

 

I can't stress the importance of being able to connect to and play with players from other regions enough. DAMP completely and utterly failed in this regard, especially considering the multiplayer mode was supposed to be more than just an afterthought. Begin by developing a netcode that functions properly. Other games use the same engine and the multiplayer is fine.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

tweak: I like companions But change up the formula a bit so it's not glaringly similar to the Bioware formula from before.

We still have companions mind you, but it should be options whether to have companions with you or not. That way you don't feel forced to have to, and they should change their formula of making games.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

So you want a story where the protagonist does nothing and has plot points fall into their lap, doesn't go to anywhere but a single hub space station, and moves like a mocapped Parkinson's patient?

I meant that they should really work on combat and gameplay a little more than story & characters, DA:O gameplay was a complete disaster like they just cheaply made it and not spending time on combat and motion capture. They should work on where they're weak at.

[Revan Reborn]

I'm really hoping for large, dynamic, and constantly changing open worlds with day/night cycles as well as a realistic weather system. One of my biggest issues with DAI is that it's large open world areas were so lifeless and dead. I want to be able to hop into the mako knowing there's always something exciting and new to see and that anything could happen at any moment to keep things fresh.

[KaiserShep]

Gameplay "boss initiation" mechanic aside, the Sacred Ashes dragon was smart enough to utilize the Dragon Cult to secure an easy source of food, as well as a protection for its eggs. Now while that might not look like much consider how the dragon actually let the cult members freely roam among her nest as well as take and kill a small percentage of her eggs for the cultists' rites and rituals. 

 

It was certainly better than the DA:I dragons that were just wild beasts for the players to kill.

 

 

This is more an argument for giving the dragons in the game more of a story. A random wild dragon in the wilderness is not going to be any different from that sacred ashes high dragon, save for the fact that one happened across a kooky cult. As an example, look at the high dragon we fight at the Dragonbone Wastes in Witch Hunt. It's just some dragon that comes out of nowhere and we have no choice but to kill it. 

 

But then we have the ataashi in Trespasser. If we free it, it makes a break for it and attacks its captors instead of the Inquisitor. 

[AlanC9]

I think it's a bad thing because you have very few other options but to engage in a crafting system that-to me-is overkill.

I still don't know what you mean by having few options. The game's quite playable with just looted and purchased gear. Somewhat harder than with crafting, maybe, but anyone who finds that a problem can just turn the difficulty down a step.

I like some crafting. But I think players that do like that amount of crafting, will craft, regardless. As I said, because they like it, it gives them a certain control over specific attributes, or provides them with a certain look they prefer.

To tie this back with ME:A, I do not want that type of crafting system in it. I think it's too much and bogs down the game.

So... crafting of little value? Just looks and a tiny gameplay advantage from better stat control? Well, it gets around the probkem of blowing through the game with crafting. But how does me having fewer gameplay options help you? If you don't like crafting, why are you crafting?

And you, Alan? What are your thoughts on it? Do you want ME:A to implement the DAI craft system?

If I can't get them to go back to ME2's system, then sure. But we're going to have any crafting system at all, I want engaging with it to really pay off.

Although obviously a sci-fi system will have to differ from a fantasy system to remain plausible.

[vbibbi]

As a MP fan, I loved ME 3's take on it, but I was really disappointed in both the amount fun I had and the amount of support that the DAMP garnered and for how poorly the gamemode was designed overall. 

 

While the Mass Effect version was just BioWare's take on the simple horde mode formula they were able to keep the gameplay fresh and interesting with new kits, weapons, maps and enemies to fight; and all with a steady stream of new content within a month after the game released. Dragon Age on the other hand, was a dreary affair. The concept of a dungeon crawl quickly lost it's luster, especially when combined with the fact that there were only 3 very same-ish maps for the first couple months, only to be updated with a new cosmetic variation of those same maps. We had to wait over six months until we got some actual content for the MP, all the while being plagued with game breaking bugs, and a store that combined the frustration of RNG with a level of grind not see this side of Korean MMOs. 

 

This of course doesn't even begin to approach the annoyance with pre-set characters, not kits, available to play. Sure on paper the concept seems like a great idea (and games like Evolve manage to emulate said concept very well), but BioWare's take on it fell flat. Not only were our customization options limited to one of several pre-colored 'outfits' to wear, which came with pre-set bonuses; meaning that players would tend to equip the clothing that provided the best benefits, even if the look of the costume was god awful; but on top of that, the characters that we had available to us were super shallow. I mean I can only hear "Did anyone try that ham they had at camp the other day" so many times in a single room before I want to pull my ears off.

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I liked the concepts that BioWare explored (on paper), it's just that the execution of those ideas was horrible. I don't want to see BioWare shy away from things like customizable armor (complete with varying bonuses and stats) for instance. They just really need to look at the feedback from DAMP and use that gamemode as perfect example of what NOT to do when they are trying to incorporate new features. 

Yeah I wonder why ME3MP was so successful and DAIMP didn't take its cues from that. I played a very little, as I never had the patience to grind for the components to gain the non-default characters. But it was so buggy, repetitive, and the last stage was exponentially more difficult than all of the previous stages.

 

This is more an argument for giving the dragons in the game more of a story. A random wild dragon in the wilderness is not going to be any different from that sacred ashes high dragon, save for the fact that one happened across a kooky cult. As an example, look at the high dragon we fight at the Dragonbone Wastes in Witch Hunt. It's just some dragon that comes out of nowhere and we have no choice but to kill it. 

 

But then we have the ataashi in Trespasser. If we free it, it makes a break for it and attacks its captors instead of the Inquisitor. 

I actually wouldn't mind more story involvement of dragons in future games. I enjoyed that EdL and Crestwood had some tangential relevance to the region, and of course WA was the most relevant. In HW, SC, EP, and EG, I felt guilty killing the dragons, as they were removed enough that they weren't actively harming people (except that one explorer in EP) and we were encroaching on their territory. Hinterlands I can handwave since it was so close to Redcliffe and was starting a brood.

[Bad King]

One thing I would like to see BioWare steer clear of in ME:A that DA:I had in spades was the complete 'humanification' of the setting. What I mean is how DA:I practically drained the 'other' element out of Thedas in favor of focusing on the 'feelz' and human issues; and by human issues I am including the Dwarves, Elves and Qunari as well.

 

Compare DA:O/DA:A to DA:I, in the first game and its expansion we got to see and interact with Sylvan, Werewolves, Golems, Awakened, and various demons and spirits. Even the animals of the first game had a unique spin on them; Mabari possessed near human level intellect, and dragons were incredibly cunning, being capable of even using cultists to protect their nests.

 

Flash forward to DA:I and all of those elements are missing, Sylvans get a crappy Plants vs. Zombies themed mention in a random letter. Werewolves and Golems are nowhere to be seen. Awakened aren't even mentioned at all, despite the possibilities that they could  provide the narrative, and the Spirits/Demons of the game are all (save for two very, very human characters) are just mindless monsters that want to kill everything on sight, like simple Rage Demons. The game doesn't even bring up the fact that Pride demons are on the same levels of humans in terms of their intelligence and scheming; nope just mindless "Rhaw! Smash!" monsters. The animals don't fair much better either; Mabari are reduced to stupid packs of wild dogs that attack anything on sight, and Dragons, the namesake of the series, are transformed from cunning creatures with an alien intellect into a bear with wings and a breath weapon. 

 

 

I would like to see ME:A stay as far away from this 'humanification' as possible; especially since it is a science fiction setting and has even less excuse for everything being human centric than a medieval fantasy does.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, though I think that ME1 had a good balance of aspects that were wondrous and alien (like the Thorian or Rachni) and elements that were clever representations of real-world political issues (such as secularism and the hangar preaches, genetic modification, corporate intrigue etc.) - the latter is 'humanification' done right as opposed to done poorly.

 

A good example of it being done poorly is with the geth in ME3. ME1 and ME2 did a good job of representing the geth as an alien intelligence, an alternative form of being but also simultaneously hinted that they had evolved several more 'human-like' elements (such as Legion's seemingly illogical reverence of Shepard and the heretics learning to deceive). ME3 threw a lot of this out and had Legion and the other geth aspiring to be identical to organics. This was a shame as not only did it unravel their mystique, originality and alienness, but it also suggested that groups with very different ideas and ways of seeing the world have no way of coexisting until one side adopts those of the other. This ran completely contrary to what the geth had been struggling for as mentioned in ME2: to retain their unique and different way of being but to nevertheless make peace with the other races.

[Vortex13]

I agree with a lot of what you say, though I think that ME1 had a good balance of aspects that were wondrous and alien (like the Thorian or Rachni) and elements that were clever representations of real-world political issues (such as secularism and the hangar preaches, genetic modification, corporate intrigue etc.) - the latter is 'humanification' done right as opposed to done poorly.

 

A good example of it being done poorly is with the geth in ME3. ME1 and ME2 did a good job of representing the geth as an alien intelligence, an alternative form of being but also simultaneously hinted that they had evolved several more 'human-like' elements (such as Legion's seemingly illogical reverence of Shepard and the heretics learning to deceive). ME3 threw a lot of this out and had Legion and the other geth aspiring to be identical to organics. This was a shame as not only did it unravel their mystique, originality and alienness, but it also suggested that groups with very different ideas and ways of seeing the world have no way of coexisting until one side adopts those of the other. This ran completely contrary to what the geth had been struggling for as mentioned in ME2: to retain their unique and different way of being but to nevertheless make peace with the other races.

 

 

Well ME 1 and bits of ME 2 were the more nuanced of the series when it came to 'alien' elements. Much like DA, you can see the steady decline in said elements as the games moved forward though. From the Geth becoming Pinocchio bots, to the Hanar and Elcor becoming shallow memes, and the Rachni being completely ignored (save for a minuscule cameo) etc.

 

It's one of the things that really annoys me about BioWare's handling of their IPs. The first few titles are well thought out and varied settings, complete with multiple perspectives on the universe; with humanity and human-like ways of thinking just being a small part of a larger whole. But then, as the franchise continues on, all of those alien elements are removed/made to be like us/turned into a cheap joke until all we have left is just a setting filled with just humans and humans with pointy ears, or humans in rubber costumes.

[ShadyKat]

Hopefully not to make Andromeda a single player MMO, with way too much filler and side quests.

[SNascimento]

The real criticism should be of the X06 demo. That had loads of cut content - a whole planet (which was repurposed to be Therum), interruptions, full squad control like KOTOR. The ME1 we see in that demo is in many fundamental ways not like the ME1 we got. It's pretty much exactly like the DAI vertical slice. Bioware had been over promising and under delivering since NWN1.

Saying Bioware underdelived with ME1 because you saw a demo that you believe would make the foundations of a better game doesn't sound right. Many mechanics might not have worked the way they wanted to or the sacrifices would have been too big. We just cannot know.

The "advantage" the demo has is that we can look at it and imagine what it could have been. So people compare a game that they played and notice all its flaws with an idealized image of a game that has never been, and might not even have been possible to make. 

[DarKnight7]

My favorite part of all Bioware games is the companions. If ME:A creates good characters with interesting backstories they'll be going in the right direction. Solas was my favorite companion in DA:I because he had depth and mystery to his character. When you first meet him, he's ostensibly just an elven apostate. But if you take him with you on numerous quests, you'll notice that he lets some things slip that hint that he is much more. For instance, if you take Solas to Halamshiral, afterwards when you have returned to Skyhold he'll slip up and say that he missed the intrigues of court. Of course if you press him on it, he quickly covers by saying that he observed court intrigues in the Fade, but finding out who he really is after a playthrough of DA:I sheds new light on so many small interactions you can have with him throughout the game. I want characters with similar depth in ME:A. 

[FemShem]

To me at the basics, Hawke (angry or funny) is similar to the two Sheps...that'w the toon I like playing.  The Warden from DA:O isn't too far off either.  The Inquisitor and Hawke's goodie two shoes personality makes me want to cap my own character, or hope someone in my unit will do it for me so I can play one of them.

The more varied the companions the better the ride.  Ratchet up the stakes, and let some of them get killed (potentially).  We need a tank and high dps to finish the game, and our toon.

It's an RPG, give us cut scenes.  I love them...it's an RPG.  Here's what's great, someone who doesn't want to see the cut scene...skips it.  Just like they skip the romances.  BioWare writes the best RPGs in town (skip the Witcher whining for once go troll another site...notice how there is no fan fix for Witcher b/c he's a boring misogynist and no fun to role play).

So let's take what BioWare does best starting at Kotor.

Interesting relationships.  Minigames within the games and/or puzzles...dunno why, but it's fun.  Hit up characters on the ship or between missions...if you don't want to..skip it...most of us like it.

We always want to go to the bar...dunno why, Inquisition we couldn't get a drink outside a cut scene lame.

You always have to have the highest approval rating for lesbian nookie.  I'm a lesbian, I don't have to work that hard for it in real life, but I do in a BioWare game...I should get an extra achievement for that.

Bring it and the characters.  If you skimp, we'll be pissed, we can get shoot 'em up bang, bang anywhere.  Hot toons with badaass dialogue...that's what we're paying for.

[AlanC9]

It's one of the things that really annoys me about BioWare's handling of their IPs. The first few titles are well thought out and varied settings, complete with multiple perspectives on the universe; with humanity and human-like ways of thinking just being a small part of a larger whole. But then, as the franchise continues on, all of those alien elements are removed/made to be like us/turned into a cheap joke until all we have left is just a setting filled with just humans and humans with pointy ears, or humans in rubber costumes.

Which other IPs does this apply to? DA's Qun has become, if anything, more bizarre.

Also note that to some extent this was an illusion. ME1 got its alien perspectives cheap because we don't really engage with alien cultures except for the squadmates, who aren't very alien even when they're aliens.

[AlanC9]

You always have to have the highest approval rating for lesbian nookie.  I'm a lesbian, I don't have to work that hard for it in real life, but I do in a BioWare game...I should get an extra achievement for that.

I don't think the mechanics are different for lesbian PCs. Sometimes they're easier; IIRC it's hard to avoid getting into a relationship with Leliana.

[Vortex13]

Which other IPs does this apply to? DA's Qun has become, if anything, more bizarre.

Also note that to some extent this was an illusion. ME1 got its alien perspectives cheap because we don't really engage with alien cultures except for the squadmates, who aren't very alien even when they're aliens.

 

 

ME and DA are the most prevalent, but there is examples of this thing happening in Baulder's Gate 1 & 2 and Star Wars :KOTOR & Star Wars:TOR as well. And the Qun is still a belief system for a very human-like people. I would have much rather kept the Awakened, Sylvans, and intelligent Mabari personally. 

 

 

As for ME 1, I would only partially agree. The narrative may have glossed over the more 'alien' species but that didn't make things like the Rachni or Thorian cheap copouts, they had a rich 'alien' perspective, it's just BioWare that decided to completely overlook them as the series went on.