303 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellrazer360]

Madapaca wrote...

Tails88 wrote...

It's just a font. They just have to put a bigger font. How hard could that possibly be?
And even if it's hard, they should support every player. Xbox 360 does work with SDTVs, so the games must work just fine, too. 
Am I asking for the moon?

It's not just a font size issue, it's a GUI issue. If they adjust the size of the text, it would mean a re-design of the layout in certain situations where dialoge boxes and interfaces overlap and are not meant to obscure game play field of view. For them to do this, it would require a re-working of the GUI for the entire game start to finish. Sure they would not have to touch the underlying game, but the tuser interface and ext overlays would require manpower and resources Bioware/EA has already had move on to other content/projects.

That's why I still stand by my opinions that your pleas no matter how sincere and vocal, will be futile at best. They made their choice during the design faze long ago to go with what they have released.

Bioware/EA is not Rare, and Mass Effect 2 is not your kid friendly B&K Nuts and Bolts. Expecting them to behave the same in this situation is false hope. 

Not really. Bioware always says their dedication to the fans and since mass effect is obviously a popular game that increases the chances that there will be more people playing it in Standard def

[Madapaca]

Hellrazer360 wrote...

]True that none of us knows what it really takes but like I said if Rare can do it then Bioware can do it seen as how they probably have a much bigger fan base.

Why did Rare do what it did? They released the demo on Xbox Live, little kiddies and fans of the series (The target audience and market) downloaded the demo. The potential buyers of said game, had trouble reading the text because, afterall they were all more than likely on SD-TVs. Everyone who had HD-TVs, reported no such issues with the Demo.

Rare's Community Game Manager Greg Kelion when asked to comment, said: "Unfortunately, this is an issue that doesn't look like it will get changed. I don't want to bore you with the technical side of things (I really don't understand it all myself), but the long and the short of it is that the text you see in the demo will be the same as that which you find in the retail version of the game. I'm sorry that we weren't able to address this issue as nothing would please us more than turning all your complaints into gleeful responses, but it's simply something that's too expensive in terms of time, resources and money to alter,"

After that statement went out, guess what happened? All those people who had issues with the demo, didn't go out and buy the game. Add to that, media outlets and blogs made a fuss about it and in the end Rare caved. A month after the release of the game, a patch was issued. increasing only the font size in the text windows. This, for them was costly but they tried to recover (unsucessfully) from a bad situation. The game for all intents and purposes was a huge flop.

Mass Effect 2 is already released, there was no Demo for SD-TV users to test out. Bioware/EA already has your $60, the text issue is no where near as easy to fix for this game as it was for that one. Sadly you need to brace yourselves for the possibility that your pleas are going to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

Modifié par Madapaca, 28 janvier 2010 - 11:43 .

[Hellrazer360]

Madapaca wrote...

Hellrazer360 wrote...

]True that none of us knows what it really takes but like I said if Rare can do it then Bioware can do it seen as how they probably have a much bigger fan base.

Why did Rare do what it did? They released the demo on Xbox Live, little kiddies and fans of the series (The target audience and market) downloaded the demo. The potential buyers of said game, had trouble reading the text because, afterall they were all more than likely on SD-TVs. Everyone who had HD-TVs, reported no such issues with the Demo.

Rare's Community Game Manager Greg Kelion when asked to comment, said: "Unfortunately, this is an issue that doesn't look like it will get changed. I don't want to bore you with the technical side of things (I really don't understand it all myself), but the long and the short of it is that the text you see in the demo will be the same as that which you find in the retail version of the game. I'm sorry that we weren't able to address this issue as nothing would please us
more than turning all your complaints into gleeful responses, but it's simply something that's too expensive in terms of time, resources and money to alter,"

After that statement went out, guess what happened? All those people who had issues with the demo, didn't go out and buy the game. Add to that, media outlets and blogs made a fuss about it and in the end Rare caved. A month after the release of the game, a patch was issued. increasing only the font size in the text windows. This, for them was costly but they tried to recover (unsucessfully) from a bad situation. The game for all intents and purposes was a huge flop.

Mass Effect 2 is already released, there was no Demo for SD-TV users to test out. Bioware/EA already has your $60, the text issue is no where near as easy to fix for this game as it was for that one. Sadly you need to brace yourselves for the possibility that your pleas are going to fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

I'll say it again Bioware has way more money than Rare does and they have EA financing behind them. Also like I've already stated way more people are going to be playing mass effect 2 than they did Nuts and Bolts.

[Mokinokaro]

Why did you have to bring it up OP? You do know Priestly's parents were crushed by Frank's 2000 inch TV right?

In all seriousness, do any of you claiming it's just a font change have any background in programming?   Changing even just a font can have strange effects in other places (memory issues, screen estate issues, UI, etc.)

And, for all we know, parts of the UI are not generated by a font but hard coded as art assets, which brings up a whole set of other issues.

Modifié par Mokinokaro, 28 janvier 2010 - 11:48 .

[Hellrazer360]

Mokinokaro wrote...

Why did you have to bring it up OP? You do know Priestly's parents were crushed by Frank's 2000 inch TV right?

LOL :lol:

[Hellrazer360]

See this is turning into an argument against Bioware my whole point is a video game I spend my hard earned money on I should not have to strain my eyes to see the text in game. The truth is there are still people out there with SDTV and if they only optimize for HDTV then thats not their dedication to the fans.

[Madapaca]

Bioware/EA officially responded in the other thread.

Michael Gamble wrote...

I've gotten a number of PMs about this. Messaging me more will not speed up the process. We are looking at the threads, but unless we necessarily have traction on it - we can't post information we dont have.

I'll have to talk to Casey about this (as any way to address it would have far reaching changes in the game), but please don't expect any decisions or a fix in the near future (as we are supporting a number of issues at this time). This was a design choice, not a bug.

Having said that, when I find out more, I will update this thread. I appreciate everyones patience. You guys are awesome.

Modifié par Madapaca, 28 janvier 2010 - 11:57 .

[Tails88]

Madapaca wrote...


It's not just a font size issue, it's a GUI issue. If they adjust the size of the text, it would mean a re-design of the layout in certain situations where dialoge boxes and interfaces overlap and are not meant to obscure game play field of view. For them to do this, it would require a re-working of the GUI for the entire game start to finish. Sure they would not have to touch the underlying game, but the tuser interface and ext overlays would require manpower and resources Bioware/EA has already had move on to other content/projects.

That's why I still stand by my opinions that your pleas no matter how sincere and vocal, will be futile at best. They made their choice during the design faze long ago to go with what they have released.

Bioware/EA is not Rare, and Mass Effect 2 is not your kid friendly B&K Nuts and Bolts. Expecting them to behave the same in this situation is false hope. 

It's their fault, they didn't tell me that I am unable to use my game on my SDTV.

It just makes no sense, i don't know how to explain it better.
I mean... why? What should we do with this tiny font? Line of text are there for a reason: to let people read the line of text. The bigger, the better.


But I understand what you're saying, and I believe too that Bioware won't do anything about it.
But I've spent 60 Euros for a game I can't use, for this stupid reason. They should have re-used the font of Mass Effect 1, but they've changed it, I don't know why. No one know why. There's just no improvement, it's useless, and now I cant play it.

Thanks, Bioware. Thanks a lot.


EDIT: Just read the post above me. I think I'll play Lost Odyssey and wait to see what happens:huh:

Modifié par Tails88, 28 janvier 2010 - 11:55 .

[Tai MT]

Madapaca wrote...

Tails88 wrote...

It's just a font. They just have to put a bigger font. How hard could that possibly be?
And even if it's hard, they should support every player. Xbox 360 does work with SDTVs, so the games must work just fine, too. 
Am I asking for the moon?

It's not just a font size issue, it's a GUI issue. If they adjust the size of the text, it would mean a re-design of the layout in certain situations where dialoge boxes and interfaces overlap and are not meant to obscure game play field of view. For them to do this, it would require a re-working of the GUI for the entire game start to finish. Sure they would not have to touch the underlying game, but the tuser interface and ext overlays would require manpower and resources Bioware/EA has already had move on to other content/projects.

That's why I still stand by my opinions that your pleas no matter how sincere and vocal, will be futile at best. They made their choice during the design faze long ago to go with what they have released.

Bioware/EA is not Rare, and Mass Effect 2 is not your kid friendly B&K Nuts and Bolts. Expecting them to behave the same in this situation is false hope. 

And this is why so many internet goers absolutely hate EA in every respect and avoid their games like the plague, even though they may potentially be good.  It's the poor customer service and willingness to try to help out the customer.

Now, me, personally, I don't give a crap who makes what games.  If the game looks good, you buy it.  I played the original Mass Effect and wanted the sequel.  I preordered before there was ever a release date for it.  And when a CE was announced for it,I cancelled my order and then preordered the CE.

Now, if the game was meant to be played in HD, that's fine.  But game developers have this really nasty and mean-spirited habit of NOT TELLING THE CONSUMERS that you will not be able to read the text, thus enjoy the game fully, because it's meant for HDTV.  They curiously omit this piece of technical information because they KNOW it would hurt sales a LOT.

It would be one thing to say "buy an HDTV to read the text, because the game is meant to be played in HDTV" if they had EVER told anyone that.  But no, you have to get the game and pop it in before you ever discover that fact.

Bungie, on the other hand, uses all manner of crazy set-ups in order to test their games on them.  In order to provide the optimal experience for every player.  To ensure all gamers can read all the text regardless of their set-up.  To ensure that everyone can see the things they should on whatever set-up they use.  And guess what?  3 Year development window.  Much like Mass Effect 2.

It is entirely possible to program your game so that any possible set-up will provide you with an optimal experience for that set-up.  It comes down to design choice and whether or not the company cares about its fanbase.

I'll be the first to say that Halo 2 and Halo 3 are "average" games, because they are.  But at least ther company cares enough about their fanbase to make sure that they can all enjoy the game equally.

And none of us are asking for major overhauls of the game.  We're asking for a SLIGHT text size increase.  Just enough to make it legible.  Teachers in school dock you points for being unable to read your papers, why can't we do the same with this game?

Also, a lot of the areas where your GUI would overlap with your text is really a poor design decision to begin with.  Do we really need this 3 inch box on the right hand side to tell us we got +3 Paragon Points?  Mass Effect 1 didn't need that.  Why does 2?  Do we really need that same box to show us that we just got money?  Or resources?  No, we don't.  It's a huge waste of space.  I'd be in favor of cutting these "idiot boxes" (akin to your "idiot lights" in a car) in order to increase text size.  I don't need a huge explaination of why I recieved paragon poins.  I figured it out that the top choices are Paragon a long time ago.  I also don't need a box to give me a summary of the quest I completed (with 15 lines of text that only stick around two seconds I might add).  I also don't need the description of an item to pop up on the right-hand side in those boxes, when it's already given to you in the field before you pick something up.

There is quite literally, no reason for not increasing the text size.  Other than, you know, it might inconvenience the developers to have to patch their game so soon out of the gates.

As for charging for it...  Other games didn't charge for it.  In fact, most online utilities don't charge you to "text patch" some of the games you own on your PC.

How can ANYONE with a brain stand against increasing text size?  It doesn't hurt you people in any way to have text size increase to the size it was in the original Mass Effect.  It does zero to YOUR playability of the game.  It doesn't hinder YOU in any way.  It doesn't hurt your play experience in the least.  But, not being able to read it, does hurt OURS.

You guys are basically suggesting that we be left out in the cold simply because you guys can afford an HDTV.  You're giving us the equivalent of a middle finger and saying "well, if you can't buy an HDTV, then it sucks to be you, neener neener, I can play the game just fine!  And they should never make you able to enjoy it as much as I do, without having to purchase your golden ticket like I have!".

How can anyone percieve that as "fair" or even "right"?

I'm not asking for a graphics overhaul.  I'm not asking for a rebalancing of the game.  I'm not even asking them for some new feature.  I'm just asking that they fix something that makes playing frustrating to users like myself.

I'm serious,it is frustrating.  I can't read my options, so I just rotate the joystick to see where my options are, and then pick the ones at the top because I'm playing as a paragon.   I then listen to the conversation because what else can I do?  If you HDTV users had to do that every time, you'd be up in arms too.  But because it doesn't affect you, you just go, "well, tough luck, see ya losers".

[Mark Doney]

I have to agree its very frustrating and even makes me think why do I bother playing it....well its a great game so I will keep playing it but perhaps start from fresh again on PC instead of XBox? Bioware should bring out this small patch then the game would be perfect.

[Descedent]

we have some book writers in this thread.

[Tails88]

Descedent wrote...

we have some book writers in this thread.

But he's right.

[Madapaca]

I think people should pay close attention to the bolded part of Bioware's response to this: 

Michael Gamble wrote...

I'll have to talk to Casey about this (as any way to address it would have far reaching changes in the game), but please don't expect any decisions or a fix in the near future (as we are supporting a number of issues at this time). This was a design choice, not a bug.

I feel for you SD-TV users, I really do. At least you have your reply now though.

[Garlador]

Fixing game-crashing bugs and freezing issues should always take priority over something that's doing what it was programmed to do, but I appreciate the response and there is obviously hope that something WILL be done because it's an issue affecting alot of people.

[Tyfreaky]

Junebug88 wrote...

I don't blame them for not caring or testing. Its 2010, and as cheesy as that sounds these are HD consoles and games are developed in HD. At this point SD screens have no priority. If you can spend 300$ for a xbox setup, you can for sure as hell afford a HDTV.

Wow you guys must work on wall street or something where the economy gong BUST only, made you have to give up lobster or something.

We are in a gosh darned recession, with epic job losses, and many cant find homes or got forclosed on..
Its not that easy to buy a HD TV, I know.

And plenty of people got there X boxes way before the economy crashed,

Just because you can afford to shoot money out your but for a TV should not mean he has to suffer just because he cant.

[Hellrazer360]

Tai MT wrote...

Madapaca wrote...

Tails88 wrote...

It's just a font. They just have to put a bigger font. How hard could that possibly be?
And even if it's hard, they should support every player. Xbox 360 does work with SDTVs, so the games must work just fine, too. 
Am I asking for the moon?

It's not just a font size issue, it's a GUI issue. If they adjust the size of the text, it would mean a re-design of the layout in certain situations where dialoge boxes and interfaces overlap and are not meant to obscure game play field of view. For them to do this, it would require a re-working of the GUI for the entire game start to finish. Sure they would not have to touch the underlying game, but the tuser interface and ext overlays would require manpower and resources Bioware/EA has already had move on to other content/projects.

That's why I still stand by my opinions that your pleas no matter how sincere and vocal, will be futile at best. They made their choice during the design faze long ago to go with what they have released.

Bioware/EA is not Rare, and Mass Effect 2 is not your kid friendly B&K Nuts and Bolts. Expecting them to behave the same in this situation is false hope. 

And this is why so many internet goers absolutely hate EA in every respect and avoid their games like the plague, even though they may potentially be good.  It's the poor customer service and willingness to try to help out the customer.

Now, me, personally, I don't give a crap who makes what games.  If the game looks good, you buy it.  I played the original Mass Effect and wanted the sequel.  I preordered before there was ever a release date for it.  And when a CE was announced for it,I cancelled my order and then preordered the CE.

Now, if the game was meant to be played in HD, that's fine.  But game developers have this really nasty and mean-spirited habit of NOT TELLING THE CONSUMERS that you will not be able to read the text, thus enjoy the game fully, because it's meant for HDTV.  They curiously omit this piece of technical information because they KNOW it would hurt sales a LOT.

It would be one thing to say "buy an HDTV to read the text, because the game is meant to be played in HDTV" if they had EVER told anyone that.  But no, you have to get the game and pop it in before you ever discover that fact.

Bungie, on the other hand, uses all manner of crazy set-ups in order to test their games on them.  In order to provide the optimal experience for every player.  To ensure all gamers can read all the text regardless of their set-up.  To ensure that everyone can see the things they should on whatever set-up they use.  And guess what?  3 Year development window.  Much like Mass Effect 2.

It is entirely possible to program your game so that any possible set-up will provide you with an optimal experience for that set-up.  It comes down to design choice and whether or not the company cares about its fanbase.

I'll be the first to say that Halo 2 and Halo 3 are "average" games, because they are.  But at least ther company cares enough about their fanbase to make sure that they can all enjoy the game equally.

And none of us are asking for major overhauls of the game.  We're asking for a SLIGHT text size increase.  Just enough to make it legible.  Teachers in school dock you points for being unable to read your papers, why can't we do the same with this game?

Also, a lot of the areas where your GUI would overlap with your text is really a poor design decision to begin with.  Do we really need this 3 inch box on the right hand side to tell us we got +3 Paragon Points?  Mass Effect 1 didn't need that.  Why does 2?  Do we really need that same box to show us that we just got money?  Or resources?  No, we don't.  It's a huge waste of space.  I'd be in favor of cutting these "idiot boxes" (akin to your "idiot lights" in a car) in order to increase text size.  I don't need a huge explaination of why I recieved paragon poins.  I figured it out that the top choices are Paragon a long time ago.  I also don't need a box to give me a summary of the quest I completed (with 15 lines of text that only stick around two seconds I might add).  I also don't need the description of an item to pop up on the right-hand side in those boxes, when it's already given to you in the field before you pick something up.

There is quite literally, no reason for not increasing the text size.  Other than, you know, it might inconvenience the developers to have to patch their game so soon out of the gates.

As for charging for it...  Other games didn't charge for it.  In fact, most online utilities don't charge you to "text patch" some of the games you own on your PC.

How can ANYONE with a brain stand against increasing text size?  It doesn't hurt you people in any way to have text size increase to the size it was in the original Mass Effect.  It does zero to YOUR playability of the game.  It doesn't hinder YOU in any way.  It doesn't hurt your play experience in the least.  But, not being able to read it, does hurt OURS.

You guys are basically suggesting that we be left out in the cold simply because you guys can afford an HDTV.  You're giving us the equivalent of a middle finger and saying "well, if you can't buy an HDTV, then it sucks to be you, neener neener, I can play the game just fine!  And they should never make you able to enjoy it as much as I do, without having to purchase your golden ticket like I have!".

How can anyone percieve that as "fair" or even "right"?

I'm not asking for a graphics overhaul.  I'm not asking for a rebalancing of the game.  I'm not even asking them for some new feature.  I'm just asking that they fix something that makes playing frustrating to users like myself.

I'm serious,it is frustrating.  I can't read my options, so I just rotate the joystick to see where my options are, and then pick the ones at the top because I'm playing as a paragon.   I then listen to the conversation because what else can I do?  If you HDTV users had to do that every time, you'd be up in arms too.  But because it doesn't affect you, you just go, "well, tough luck, see ya losers".

Well stated

[Tails88]

Madapaca wrote...

I think people should pay close attention to the bolded part of Bioware's response to this: 

Michael Gamble wrote...

I'll have to talk to Casey about this (as any way to address it would have far reaching changes in the game), but please don't expect any decisions or a fix in the near future (as we are supporting a number of issues at this time). This was a design choice, not a bug.

I feel for you SD-TV users, I really do. At least you have your reply now though.

So... they've done it on purpose?

I've said it but I'll say it again: it makes no sense at all.

[Tai MT]

Descedent wrote...

we have some book writers in this thread.

Yep.  I'm unpublished and only mediocre at it.  But I'm learning as I go!  Ha ha.

[Madapaca]

Tai MT, I understand your reasoning I really do. Now that a representative from Bioware/EA has spoken on the matter and stated the small text was intentional, what do you and other players in your situation plan on doing? 

[Tai MT]

Madapaca wrote...

Tai MT, I understand your reasoning I really do. Now that a representative from Bioware/EA has spoken on the matter and stated the small text was intentional, what do you and other players in your situation plan on doing? 

You do the only thing you can do.  You keep at it.  Keep complaining.  Tell people who are undecided about it.  "Word Of Mouth" is something every company knows of and respects far more than any other marketing they can do.

You be a jerk to one person.  They tell two people.  Those people tell more people.  And so on and so forth.

There is plenty of proof out there that yelling long and loud about an issue eventually solves it.  Maybe it won't be solved for Mass Effect 2.  I can understand that.  But I'll almost certainly bet you that they fix it in Mass Effect 3.  And if it isn't fixed, many of us will be ignoring that title altogether.

Many of us don't expect them to ever patch the game.  They're probably more concerned with DLC which actually earns them money.

But if we just keep complaining about it, they'll either fix it in this game, or make enough of a note of it, to have it not be an issue in the next.

You can point to any number of examples where this is the case.

[Tails88]

Madapaca wrote...

Now that a representative from Bioware/EA has spoken on the matter and stated the small text was intentional, what do you and other players in your situation plan on doing? 

Personally, I think I'll finish the games I have unfinished and wait for something to happen. If it won't happen, then I'll get angry.

But I wnat to think positive, just for once :innocent: I won't play it anytime soon, that's for sure.


EDIT: And I quote Tai MT again.

Modifié par Tails88, 29 janvier 2010 - 12:22 .

[ChewyChavezIII]

I actually replaced my SDTV for this exact reason. Dead Rising was by far the worst. The game had all speech in text and I couldnt read any of it. Then there was another game ( I think Prince of Persia, but not 100% sure) that had QTE button presses, and I couldnt even tell what color button I was supposed to press let alone the letter. It is really frustrating to not be able to read the screen. I do understand where the OP is coming from. I was lucky to be able to find an "open box" HDTV at Best Buy that was very discounted as well as the additional 10% off I got for being a rewards member buying an open box item.

[jaboaty]

Madapaca wrote...

Tai MT, I understand your reasoning I really do. Now that a representative from Bioware/EA has spoken on the matter and stated the small text was intentional, what do you and other players in your situation plan on doing? 

I'm going to play through ME2.  I've already spent money on it and I'll try to salvage as much from the situation.  But I am going to have to give serious consideration before I buy another Bioware game, which sucks because I was foaming at the mouth for the Old Republic.  But based on how they handled this aesthetic choice, I'm honestly not sure if they are mature enough as makers to handle something like an MMO

[arch4non]

I can forgive not being able to read planet info, emails, or in some cases even quest text, but I can't forgive not being able to read the dialog options. Really, if I can't tell what my character is going to say then what's the point?

A simple dark background behind the dialog wheel and options would dramatically improve my gaming experience. There's plenty of room in the options menu to make it toggleable for people with HDTV's who don't want it.

Modifié par arch4non, 29 janvier 2010 - 01:06 .