314 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Though I liked Felix and Alexius I greatly preferred the templar quest. I hated the whole time travel thing and Fiona was this boring sad sack that the game expected me to care about because she was from some book or comic.

[BansheeOwnage]

If closing the Breach is your priority (which it probably should be), one major point in the mages' favour is that they seem much more likely to be able to help close it, with their powers having much more variety than those of the Templars. It does seem like a huge gamble to rely on Cullen's speculations, even if they have basis. Sorry Cullen.

 

That said, I've done both quests twice, and enjoy both (mostly because I like the extra time they give to both Dorian and Cole).

[Xerrai]

There is no 'inherent' better option--narative or otherwise. It is simply a matter of opinion and preference. Arguments for or against either the mages and/or the Templars are plentiful and for all intents and purposes, are meant to be that way.

 

Like with everything else, all it comes down to choice. Either deal with the mages that were manhandled into becoming Tevinter's puppets/slaves, or get the Templars that  unquestioningly drank red lyrium despite its obvious ill effects. One is not inherently better than the other. Both have flaws, and both have virtues.

[Dai Grepher]

The templar complaining that you aren't hunting mages if you recruit them and their whole rebellion against Divine Viv because she's a mage kind of confirm that no, you didn't kill every bad templar and mage-hate is still rampant.

 

I thought he was complaining that there were mages there that they know are guilty of heinous crimes, and wanted something done about them. Cassandra states that nothing will be done. I don't remember any rebellion against Divine Vivienne. Just that some templars followed Cullen in quitting lyrium.

 

I was in Val Royeaux, while fearing them can be considered a form of respect, it's not the respect you're looking for.  This, like all other "may as well toss a coin" choices in the game has no right or wrong answer.  Either can be chosen with impunity for the aftermath, the only real difference it makes is who you fight at the ballista just before Cory does his reveal.

 

If you ask Leliana for a report after getting the templars, she states that it has done wonders for their reputation, that the people trust the templars, and now they trust the Inquisition.

[Ashagar]

And in spite of what people would argue both sides have done horrible evil things in the name of restoring order or 'mage freedom'.

 

If there is any difference it would be that the Templars see what they did was wrong and try to redeem themselves while the mages feel what ever they did was justified no matter what because of 'mage freedom'.

[lynroy]

Blah blah, my opinion is better than yours. I've seen it a thousand times.

[Xerrai]

And in spite of what people would argue both sides have done horrible evil things in the name of restoring order or 'mage freedom'.

 

If there is any difference it would be that the Templars see what they did was wrong and try to redeem themselves while the mages feel what ever they did was justified no matter what because of 'mage freedom'.

Can qualify a bit? Like which "wrong" action did the Mages to? Starting the Mage Rebellion or the whole being indentured servants to Tevinter?

 

In either case, in HW we have the opportunity to commune with Mages that didn't support either choice. Many mages were content in the Circle system, and overall we get the impression that indenturing themselves into Tevinter's service was not a real choice for the majority of mages (just Fiona's). Many acknowledge that their collective choice of the Mages (or Fiona's) was 'wrong' to various degrees.

[thesuperdarkone2]

I thought he was complaining that there were mages there that they know are guilty of heinous crimes, and wanted something done about them. Cassandra states that nothing will be done. I don't remember any rebellion against Divine Vivienne. Just that some templars followed Cullen in quitting lyrium

If you don't rebuild the Seekers, ally with the templars, and get Cullen off lyrium, when Divine Vivienne rules, the templars straight up refuse to serve her because she's a mage and form the Silver Shield in order to overthrow her.

 

In Trespasser, if you sided with the templars, Divine Vivienne mentions that the Silver Shield are recruiting ex-templars and are trying to overthrow her.

[Dai Grepher]

Hmm. Interesting. Still doesn't mean those were evil templars though. What I was referring to in my statement was that the bad templars attacked you at Therinfall because they were red by then. You put them down. So you had only the good templars during Inquisition. Now, what they did afterward is up to them. Your job is done. And for all we know those templars have legitimate concerns about Vivienne.

[AnimalBoy]

This side is better then the other because i said so thread #4362

[BansheeOwnage]

Blah blah, my opinions is better than yours. I've seen it a thousand times.

Ha, how very subtly relevant

Spoiler

[AlanC9]

Though I liked Felix and Alexius I greatly preferred the templar quest. I hated the whole time travel thing and Fiona was this boring sad sack that the game expected me to care about because she was from some book or comic.

We were expected to care about her? I didn't see that. When did the caring about her happen?

[Nefla]

We were expected to care about her? I didn't see that. When did the caring about her happen?

Why put her in there and have her hang around Skyhold if you recruit the mages and fight her as a miniboss if we don't if we're not supposed to care? She seemed like yet another character that people were supposed to know from the EU that they shoehorned in for fanservice or something and didn't bother to develop in-game.

[correctamundo]

And around we go...

 

 

Anyway, personally, narratively speaking, alternating is the "better" pick - for every reason.

[KaiserShep]

Personally, I generally go for the mages because the game seems clearly geared toward following the Redcliffe plot thread, since we get much more exposition into the situation at Redcliffe, whereas whatever is going on at Therinfal Redoubt is a total mystery. For all we know they could just be having a big Templar orgy and holing up waiting for the world to fix itself. The only introduction we have into the Templar plot is basically potatoface Lucius puffing up in your face and telling everyone to screw off, thus exceeding my capacity to distribute f*cks to give. That this gaggle of lyrium-chugging magicops is being hostile and dismissive, save for one underling feebly pleading and ultimately failing gives me little reason to think of anything beyond:

 

 

And I'm supposed to want to bend over backwards to convince these guys to help me? As if. 

 

I appreciate that the game has a substantial quest that's mutually exclusive, allowing for a different experience, but I feel that the story doesn't provide me, or rather my protagonist, with enough incentive to care to go see them when a stronger opportunity presents itself much earlier. 

[Kakistos_]

Narratively speaking, in my opinion, the Mages are the obvious choice in both hindsight and foresight. In foresight, when you meet their leaders it is obvious that they are not interested in working with you, their ability to close the Breach is theoretical and they started the war in the first place. The Mages on the other hand invite you to their base. In hindsight, the quest "In Hushed Whispers" has EVERYTHING! A future where you SEE the results of you failure and learn FACTS about your enemies movements. The nostalgia of Redcliffe, Connor, the sympathetic villain Alexius trying to protect his son, Leliana's sacrifice - OMG, the Ferelden monarch cameo and the possibility of having Fiona and her son in the same room - SQEEEE!!! "Champions of the Just" has no Mabari in this fight.

[sylvanaerie]

Frankly, I found the templar quest boring and required a lot of backtracking and muddling around in maze like zones, (not one of my preferred activities in a game).  The one time I tried it, I just couldn't get invested in what was happening in it at all and halfway through kept saying to myself "I should have told them all to get stuffed and chosen to help the mages".  With the solitary exception of Baras I couldn't have cared less about the templars.  

 

And having to recruit Cole twice was pure idiocy.  Obviously, when it came to him, the developers did not elevate the templars to the preferred choice. Both choices are optional and have viable points.  To say one is 'superior' to the other and was meant to be the way you go is just the OP's opinion, and should have been couched as such, not tried to pass off as objective 'fact'.

 

I realize a lot of people don't like or find the time travel aspect of the mages' tale much fun, and that's fine by me, since not everyone will enjoy the things I like.  I much prefer the mages' story even if you're stuck with Fiona (who I can't stand) by default and find Samson's tale more interesting than Calpernia's.  Since I play the game to relax and have fun, I'll do what I want, regardless of some random guy on the internet's opinion that 'this way is the way it was meant to be'.

 

The entire templar story left a bad taste in my mouth and I abandoned the playthrough in disgust.  IMO it was neither fun nor logical to choose them, but that is just my opinion.

 

My opinion on templars is pretty much summed up by this:

 

[Ashagar]

Can qualify a bit? Like which "wrong" action did the Mages to? Starting the Mage Rebellion or the whole being indentured servants to Tevinter?

 

In either case, in HW we have the opportunity to commune with Mages that didn't support either choice. Many mages were content in the Circle system, and overall we get the impression that indenturing themselves into Tevinter's service was not a real choice for the majority of mages (just Fiona's). Many acknowledge that their collective choice of the Mages (or Fiona's) was 'wrong' to various degrees.

 

Well for one thing the after the vote to breatk away happened.narrowly a slight majority there was a second vote and the rebel mages assaulted with a intent to kill the mages who voted to stay neutral or wanted to return to the chantry which was the catalyst for the loyalists and the minor fraternities to ally forming the loyalist faction and sent many mages into hiding.

 

They also carried out a series of assassinations against mages who didn't hold to their views including that archivists from Viv's memory who was a threat to no one and the first enchanter who was the human mages mentor.

[sniper_arrow]

If you hate Fiona and the mages' alliance with the Venatori, do the Templar quest.

 

If you hate the Templars, do the mages quest.

[sniper_arrow]

We were expected to care about her? I didn't see that. When did the caring about her happen?

 

It's due to her connection with Alistair...which frankly I really don't give a damn.

[Almostfaceman]

It's due to her connection with Alistair...which frankly I really don't give a damn.

 

That may be true, but I can see the point others are raising about there being a character-driven bias towards the Mage quest line. People are generally going to be more interested in revisiting/revealing the Alistair family. 

 

For me, Dragon Age has failed to make the Templars interesting, so I generally play the Mage quest. The whole Alistair thing is just icing on the cake. 

[sniper_arrow]

That may be true, but I can see the point others are raising about there being a character-driven bias towards the Mage quest line. People are generally going to be more interested in revisiting/revealing the Alistair family. 

 

For me, Dragon Age has failed to make the Templars interesting, so I generally play the Mage quest. The whole Alistair thing is just icing on the cake. 

 

That would assume both Alistair and Fiona live in the future and not being killed off.

 

IMO, Barris was the only one who made me want to ally with the Templars. I can understand the bias due to DA2.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Trying to choose between mages and templars on moral grounds is complete stupidity given that Bioware made their whole conflict morally gray with the flashpoint being ax crazy revolutionary Anders blowing up a church and killing hundreds of innocents while ax crazy Commander Meredith ordered the mass murder of hundreds of innocents completely uninvolved in response.

 

Rather than waste time trying to find any moral or subjective point for which side to pick while completely forgetting that Bioware markets this franchise as your own personal canon, we should focus on what plot points or plot holes made each side more or less favored by the devs.

 

Objectively speaking, the devs favored the mages a lot more. Hushed Whispers has a far more developed plot preceding it, doing it nets more approval points from companions who may actually quit if you get their approval too low, the villain has a direct connection to the companion recruited and to put the icing on the cake Trespasser adds an exclusive achievement which forces you to play it for 100% completion.

 

Champions of the Just doesn't explain squat, you simply go after an army whose leader publicly insulted you, reaches said army in time to discover it's under attack by a corrupted spliter faction, finds out the leader of a group specialized in fighting demons is actually a demon in disguise (epic fail) and faces it off in a battle inside your own mind with the help of a spirit who happened to be nearby because he was stalking the templars for personal reasons. The only plus side is that you get Barris as an agent to speed up Cullen's missions.

 

Endgame wise, Trespasser cuts the knot by establishing on every ending that mages will still play a major role in a new conflict between the Circles and the College while the Templars only get mention if they where recruited and Vivienne was made Divine, especial mention goes for them plotting to overthrow an openly pro-templar and conservative divine just because she is a mage.

 

All in all Bioware is clearly biased towards mages with the lore itself moving increasingly from political human bickering towards ancient magics that can reshape the entire world.

 

Last of all, the argument that Templars are the logical choice to fight an enemy lead by mages only works for non-mage players who feel threatened by having subordinates with power outside their control.

 

Mages can fight mages just as fine as templars, there is no mention inside the game that either faction is inherently superior to the other with the choice being made according to the Inquisitor's (or rather the player's) perception of either faction.

[Almostfaceman]

That would assume both Alistair and Fiona live in the future and not being killed off.

 

 

That kinda goes without having to be said. 

 

[Joseph Warrick]

I think both paths are well balanced.

 

What went down in Val Royeaux can be approached in different ways. You can go for the mages because they're going to be easier to recruit, or you can decide bringing the templars back may solve two problems at once (the breach and the templars). The latter works especially well if you're an Andrastian human or a non-mage qunari.

 

The alternative timeline events were quite gripping to me. When you finally go outdoors and see what the world has turned to, that was amazing. The other path with Cole and the envy demon is cool too but maybe more mundane. Additionally, seeing the future gives the inquisitor an extra incentive because you witness what happens if you fail. It also makes you respect Corypheus more since you understand he did that. And Dorian > Cole (personal opinion). Overall, I had more fun with the time travel.

 

On the other hand, I agree that Calpernia is better than Samson.

 

All in all, both paths are worth playing through.