303 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Then again I found a lot of things about ME3 to be stupid, like Tali's photoshop face...

 

 

Wasn't that ME2's problem? 

[LPPrince]

Wasn't that ME2's problem? 

 

 

...no. ME2 had no reveal of Tali's face. ME3 had Tali provide you a picture of her exposed face on Rannoch after the conclusion of that arc+her romance. And it was a poorly done edit of a photo of a woman. You could see where the lady's knuckles were supposed to be even though a quarian would have less.

[grumpymooselion]

I liked how Skyrim did DLC, for the most part. Addons or DLC or whatever you want to call it was expansion sized in Dawnguard and Dragonborn, and priced accordingly. Hearthfire was much smaller, and priced much lower. I liked that there wasn't a ton of little DLC to buy, and instead two big meaty offerings, with one small appetizer. I hate going into a digital store and being bombarded with tons of DLC for a game, regardless of price point, it makes me just close the store page and never touch the game in question.

 

I think that's exactly what happened when I looked at Evolve, I thought it was an interesting idea, but then I looked at the game, and it had so much DLC and all these different version and just so much nonsense. I closed out the page, and haven't ever looked at the game again.

 

Then again, I do the same thing with season passes, "What's that, you want me to buy a 50usd season pass for the 60-70usd game?"  . . . . "Nope." Star Wars Battlefront did this, and having this high priced, "we'll tell you what it is later" thing right there next to the game gave me this feeling that the base game must be severely lacking in some aspect. I don't know if that's even true, I really don't, but when a company is money begging for content that shouldn't even exist yet, especially that early, it makes me worry about the base game's content. Stuff like that also makes me feel that they're desperate for money, and people desperate for money sets off all my suspicion alarm bells. People that ask me for money when I've just given them money just put me in a, "what are you doing wrong with your budgeting and money management that you've already blown what I just gave you?" sort of mindset.

 

Probably why I never lend money anymore.

[CronoDragoon]

I never really got the fuss over a prothean squadmate. Wasn't it one of the central ME1 plot points that the protheans weren't all that important? They were just the most recent bunch of Reaper victims.

 

Well, not to their cycle, no. To our cycle, Vigil is the only reason we aren't screwed at the end of ME1.

[9TailsFox]

I liked how Skyrim did DLC, for the most part. Addons or DLC or whatever you want to call it was expansion sized in Dawnguard and Dragonborn, and priced accordingly. Hearthfire was much smaller, and priced much lower. I liked that there wasn't a ton of little DLC to buy, and instead two big meaty offerings, with one small appetizer. I hate going into a digital store and being bombarded with tons of DLC for a game, regardless of price point, it makes me just close the store page and never touch the game in question.

 

I think that's exactly what happened when I looked at Evolve, I thought it was an interesting idea, but then I looked at the game, and it had so much DLC and all these different version and just so much nonsense. I closed out the page, and haven't ever looked at the game again.

 

Then again, I do the same thing with season passes, "What's that, you want me to buy a 50usd season pass for the 60-70usd game?"  . . . . "Nope." Star Wars Battlefront did this, and having this high priced, "we'll tell you what it is later" thing right there next to the game gave me this feeling that the base game must be severely lacking in some aspect. I don't know if that's even true, I really don't, but when a company is money begging for content that shouldn't even exist yet, especially that early, it makes me worry about the base game's content. Stuff like that also makes me feel that they're desperate for money, and people desperate for money sets off all my suspicion alarm bells. People that ask me for money when I've just given them money just put me in a, "what are you doing wrong with your budgeting and money management that you've already blown what I just gave you?" sort of mindset.

 

Probably why I never lend money anymore.

I am with you. Than we need chart to know how to buy game, we crossed the line.

[fizzypop]

I do agree, but funny enough I have always enjoyed ME dlcs more than dragon age dlcs. Can't say why exactly, but I definitely believed they were better priced and offered more content than dragon age ever did (**** even their armor dlcs were better and more usable). So I'm not too concerned for ME. Though I'm still pressed **** like leviathan was paid dlc. Without that dlc the entire story of ME3 doesn't make any sense. It is VERY needed for the ending to make even some sense. So they need to stay away from paid dlc that has huge repercussions for the story. If it is adding on to the story that much then it needs to be free.

[LPPrince]

I didn't even think the Leviathan DLC was that good.

 

I maintain that the franchise would've been better off with the Reapers being unexplained as they were in ME1.

[Drakoriz]

I didn't even think the Leviathan DLC was that good.

 

I maintain that the franchise would've been better off with the Reapers being unexplained as they were in ME1.

 

Leviathan actually wasnt that bad DLC, maybe shouldnt have been a DLC and be part of the game but the lore on it make sense and why the reapers keep "farming" species to make new reapers.

 

For me Leviathan and Javik DLC should have been part of the game. But after looking how Bioware handle DA I DLC (that i think they did a good job about it) they learn about no day 1 DLC *Edited*

Modifié par BioWareMod11, 26 février 2016 - 07:20 .
Profanity

[DarthSliver]

*Removed due to Profanity*

 

I agree with you but don't at the same time, I believe season passes should become discounts for the dlc. Buy the season pass and you pretty much buy all the dlc for 25% off or some crap like that. Like how the season pass is for Fallout 4 before March 1st. Early adopters of the pass would get it discounted at least and once everything is figured out they will raise it. 

 

Also how Bethesda seem to have handled the season pass seems pretty smart, from the article on its season pass raising you get the impression they didn't plan their dlc. Also SWBattlefront had no plan content for its season pass, heck they still haven't entered the updated info for the expansion packs on there lol. The only thing that makes season passes wrong is if you know what that pass will give you ahead of time. Usually on most cases the season pass keeps those people that worked on the game in a job and out of limbo. 

Modifié par BioWareMod11, 26 février 2016 - 07:20 .
Removed Profanity

[DarthSliver]

I didn't even think the Leviathan DLC was that good.

 

I maintain that the franchise would've been better off with the Reapers being unexplained as they were in ME1.

 

I didn't like that dlc, only exciting thing in there is meeting the Leviathans and seeing them take out a Reaper.

 

I think what made the Reapers being explained bad was the fact that the Council and higher ups had time to prepare but choose not to. The galaxy not preparing for the possible threat is what I think makes Reapers being explained bad. 

[Oni Changas]

I agree with you but don't at the same time, I believe season passes should become discounts for the dlc. Buy the season pass and you pretty much buy all the dlc for 25% off or some crap like that. Like how the season pass is for Fallout 4 before March 1st. Early adopters of the pass would get it discounted at least and once everything is figured out they will raise it. 

 

Also how Bethesda seem to have handled the season pass seems pretty smart, from the article on its season pass raising you get the impression they didn't plan their dlc. Also SWBattlefront had no plan content for its season pass, heck they still haven't entered the updated info for the expansion packs on there lol. The only thing that makes season passes wrong is if you know what that pass will give you ahead of time. Usually on most cases the season pass keeps those people that worked on the game in a job and out of limbo. 

I see what you're saying but the flaw in all that garbage (dlc in this day and age) is that a season pass is practically a giant sign that says "Tons of cut content sold to you over the course of a year!" Season pass and dlc practices like that can **** off. If you're going to add something insubstantial, do it how Rockstar or Polyphony (even ME3 MP) and add these things free. The only paid dlc should be substantial game-changing things like new storylines/areas and characters to see or use from within that area; an expansion if you will. 

[slimgrin]

I didn't even think the Leviathan DLC was that good.

 

I maintain that the franchise would've been better off with the Reapers being unexplained as they were in ME1.

 

[Revan Reborn]

I didn't even think the Leviathan DLC was that good.

 

I maintain that the franchise would've been better off with the Reapers being unexplained as they were in ME1.

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Without the Leviathan DLC, the ending of ME3 is literally even more ridiculous. You are introduced to a new character, the "catalyst," of which is vague and ambiguous about its creator and why it was created. All that we know is that this renegade AI is controlling the reapers because of some ill-conceived notion of needing to preserve the galaxy through forced genocide.

 

While Leviathan may have given us more information than we needed, at least it explained what the heck was going on in the last ten minutes of the game (and more broadly all three games). We find out who created the catalyst. We find out why the Leviathans created the catalyst. We find out what it's original programming actually was and how it changed itself to better "adapt" to the situation. We find out why the reapers look the way they do. All of this information, in my opinion, was valuable to understanding not only the ending but what the entire point of the reapers were to start.

 

My only criticism is Leviathan should have been in the base game and not DLC released months after the game's release. Personally, I would have been disappointed if we never found out the reaper's true motivations. Even had ME3 been written by Drew instead of Mac, Drew had his own explanation about how the reapers were reducing the expansion of dark energy fluctuation in order to preserve the galaxy from destruction. We would have received an explanation anyway, which I was perfectly fine with.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I see what you're saying but the flaw in all that garbage (dlc in this day and age) is that a season pass is practically a giant sign that says "Tons of cut content sold to you over the course of a year!" Season pass and dlc practices like that can **** off. If you're going to add something insubstantial, do it how Rockstar or Polyphony (even ME3 MP) and add these things free. The only paid dlc should be substantial game-changing things like new storylines/areas and characters to see or use from within that area; an expansion if you will. 

 

That free stuff isn't free. Both ME3MP and GTA have microtransactions; indeed, a lasting complaint about GTA Online is that cash is hard enough to make, and cool items are so expensive, that it very much feels like Rockstar wants people to buy Shark Cards as a matter of course if they want to have the good stuff. ME3 MP also had that to a degree. Developpers don't work for free, they have to find a way to finance themselves. 

 

Albeit I fully agree that Season Passes are garbage. You never know how much content you get in advance, and they are now usually priced almost as much as the base game itself while giving a fraction of the content. And then you get sketchy stuff like Bethesda's "buy it now or our glorified mods will cost 50$, but that's because we love our fans!" sillyness for FO4.

[Revan Reborn]

That free stuff isn't free. Both ME3MP and GTA have microtransactions; indeed, a lasting complaint about GTA Online is that cash is hard enough to make, and cool items are so expensive, that it very much feels like Rockstar wants people to buy Shark Cards as a matter of course if they want to have the good stuff. ME3 MP also had that to a degree. Developpers don't work for free, they have to find a way to finance themselves. 

 

Albeit I fully agree that Season Passes are garbage. You never know how much content you get in advance, and they are now usually priced almost as much as the base game itself while giving a fraction of the content. And then you get sketchy stuff like Bethesda's "buy it now or our glorified mods will cost 50$, but that's because we love our fans!" sillyness for FO4.

Truth be told, the only season pass I ever felt was really worth the money was TW3's expansion pass. CDPR wasn't charging for minuscule content or something a modder could do. They gave us 16 free DLCs of which were just fluff, first and foremost. Something other developers would have charged maximum prices for. Then, they  release an expansion pass, only costing $24.99, adding two expansions with one consisting of 10 hours of content and the other 20 hours and a new area.

 

That is far more value in a season pass than I have ever seen, and it's cheap to boot. Whereas Batman: Arkham Knight, Star Wars Battlefront, and Fallout 4 are charging double ($49.99) what TW3 asked for with substantially less content. Obviously, CDPR is in a unique position to give this amount of content at reduced rates as it's not owned by a greed 3rd party publisher and is independent. However, the lopsidedness in terms of content is just egregious.

 

I'm certainly not in support of microtransactions though. I was not a fan of how ME3 MP or how GTA V handled their "free content." Both games are nothing more than glorified game shops in which they try to entice the player to invest real money for content hardly worth the money they are asking for. Of course, everybody knows that the "F2P" microtransactions model is far more profitable than just releasing paid DLC or add-ons. It's a deceptive money scheme in which people think they are saving money, but over a long period of time end up spending far more money in a game shop than they would have with just a season pass or paid DLC.

 

All of these models are pretty terrible. But, they are here to make money and they work very well.

[LPPrince]

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Without the Leviathan DLC, the ending of ME3 is literally even more ridiculous. You are introduced to a new character, the "catalyst," of which is vague and ambiguous about its creator and why it was created. All that we know is that this renegade AI is controlling the reapers because of some ill-conceived notion of needing to preserve the galaxy through forced genocide.

 

While Leviathan may have given us more information than we needed, at least it explained what the heck was going on in the last ten minutes of the game (and more broadly all three games). We find out who created the catalyst. We find out why the Leviathans created the catalyst. We find out what it's original programming actually was and how it changed itself to better "adapt" to the situation. We find out why the reapers look the way they do. All of this information, in my opinion, was valuable to understanding not only the ending but what the entire point of the reapers were to start.

 

My only criticism is Leviathan should have been in the base game and not DLC released months after the game's release. Personally, I would have been disappointed if we never found out the reaper's true motivations. Even had ME3 been written by Drew instead of Mac, Drew had his own explanation about how the reapers were reducing the expansion of dark energy fluctuation in order to preserve the galaxy from destruction. We would have received an explanation anyway, which I was perfectly fine with.

 

 

It goes beyond ME3. The Reapers were partially explained in ME2. It was as unnecessary then as it was in ME3. They were better off being exactly what Sovereign claimed they were.

[Revan Reborn]

It goes beyond ME3. The Reapers were partially explained in ME2. It was as unnecessary then as it was in ME3. They were better off being exactly what Sovereign claimed they were.

All we learned in ME2 is that reapers harvest organics and turn them into reapers (in this case a human reaper). We also learned that collectors were really just husk versions of protheans. That is far from providing any motive, explanation, or backstory for why all this craziness was happening. My point is, Leviathan was necessary in order to explain a mystery that had been looming over the series since the beginning.

 

Had BioWare decided never to explain what the reapers were about, I wager a lot more folks would have been angry about that than ME3's ending. Why even bring up the reapers at all if they were never going to be fully explored? What makes a great antagonist is learning his motivations and why he thinks the way he does. If we are just left in the dark with no closure, that severely limits the impact as well as the legitimacy of what an antagonist is capable of.

 

Sovereign explained nothing but touted over-embellished propaganda. The reapers were synthetic. To not learn of their creator would have been a disservice to the entire fan base.

[LPPrince]

All we learned in ME2 is that reapers harvest organics and turn them into reapers (in this case a human reaper). We also learned that collectors were really just husk versions of protheans. That is far from providing any motive, explanation, or backstory for why all this craziness was happening. My point is, Leviathan was necessary in order to explain a mystery that had been looming over the series since the beginning.

 

Had BioWare decided never to explain what the reapers were about, I wager a lot more folks would have been angry about that than ME3's ending. Why even bring up the reapers at all if they were never going to be fully explored? What makes a great antagonist is learning his motivations and why he thinks the way he does. If we are just left in the dark with no closure, that severely limits the impact as well as the legitimacy of what an antagonist is capable of.

 

 

Not every big bad requires explaining. Especially a big bad thats introduced to us as being beyond our understanding.

 

I would much rather the Reapers had not been explained at all so we'd be left to wonder what they were, what their motivations were, why they did what they did, how they went about doing it, etc etc. A big godly mystery as opposed to being the playthings of an A.I. with faulty repetitious logic.

 

If they had to be explained I'd of rather the Reapers been something far more impressive than what they ended up being revealed as. Just like I'd of appreciated more effort being put into Tali's appearance sans-mask than a poorly done photoshop of a stock image found on Google.

[Elhanan]

Personally enjoyed the Leviathan/ Reaper lore, and really could care less if Tali was photoshopped or not. Only my opinion, but is as worthy as most others.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Truth be told, the only season pass I ever felt was really worth the money was TW3's expansion pass. CDPR wasn't charging for minuscule content or something a modder could do. They gave us 16 free DLCs of which were just fluff, first and foremost. Something other developers would have charged maximum prices for. Then, they  release an expansion pass, only costing $24.99, adding two expansions with one consisting of 10 hours of content and the other 20 hours and a new area.

 

That is far more value in a season pass than I have ever seen, and it's cheap to boot. Whereas Batman: Arkham Knight, Star Wars Battlefront, and Fallout 4 are charging double ($49.99) what TW3 asked for with substantially less content. Obviously, CDPR is in a unique position to give this amount of content at reduced rates as it's not owned by a greed 3rd party publisher and is independent. However, the lopsidedness in terms of content is just egregious.

 

I'm certainly not in support of microtransactions though. I was not a fan of how ME3 MP or how GTA V handled their "free content." Both games are nothing more than glorified game shops in which they try to entice the player to invest real money for content hardly worth the money they are asking for. Of course, everybody knows that the "F2P" microtransactions model is far more profitable than just releasing paid DLC or add-ons. It's a deceptive money scheme in which people think they are saving money, but over a long period of time end up spending far more money in a game shop than they would have with just a season pass or paid DLC.

 

All of these models are pretty terrible. But, they are here to make money and they work very well.

 

Yeah, as much as I dislike their (and mostly their hardcore fan's) chest-pounding, CD Projeckt did give great value with their season pass (or expansion pass or whatever they wanna call it). That is undisputable. They do have the advantage of being self-published as well as paying salaries in zloty while a huge chunk of their market buys in dollars or euros. I don't know how long this model will be sustainable, but so long as we get loads of content on the cheap side there is only reason to rejoice.

 

I disagree about ME3MP. The mode received a ton of free content, doubling the character pool, weapon pool, events giving decent reward items, and more than doubling the map pool as well as new difficulty. The last two being available regardless of how much you pay. It was very well supported and I had tons of fun in it while never spending a penny on item packs.

 

GTA Online is another matter. Most of the new content is fluff, like exotic cars or unusual but poorly performing weapons, that just happens to cost loads of money that was made harder to earn after a patch.

[Revan Reborn]

Not every big bad requires explaining. Especially a big bad thats introduced to us as being beyond our understanding.

 

I would much rather the Reapers had not been explained at all so we'd be left to wonder what they were, what their motivations were, why they did what they did, how they went about doing it, etc etc. A big godly mystery as opposed to being the playthings of an A.I. with faulty repetitious logic.

 

If they had to be explained I'd of rather the Reapers been something far more impressive than what they ended up being revealed as. Just like I'd of appreciated more effort being put into Tali's appearance sans-mask than a poorly done photoshop of a stock image found on Google.

Considering Sovereign wasn't the most credible source, as he didn't tell us anything other than "we don't understand," I find that hardly sufficient.

 

I would have hated that ending, and I think others would as well. I don't mind some ambiguity left up to the player, but that's just too much. Without motive. Without some genuine explanation... why have reapers at all? I'm not saying what BioWare came up with is better, but I'd much rather know something about them instead of nothing.

 

Well, it was going to be an impossible task for BioWare to please everyone, especially due to the earlier script leak and the short development window. As far as Tali, I'm surprised they even bothered showing her face at all. I'm certain that only happened because fan demand was so large, but it clearly was something they put in late. BioWare obviously never intended to show her face nor did they seem to have a look for the quarians down.

 

Yeah, as much as I dislike their (and mostly their hardcore fan's) chest-pounding, CD Projeckt did give great value with their season pass (or expansion pass or whatever they wanna call it). That is undisputable. They do have the advantage of being self-published as well as paying salaries in zloty while a huge chunk of their market buys in dollars or euros. I don't know how long this model will be sustainable, but so long as we get loads of content on the cheap side there is only reason to rejoice.

 

I disagree about ME3MP. The mode received a ton of free content, doubling the character pool, weapon pool, events giving decent reward items, and more than doubling the map pool as well as new difficulty. The last two being available regardless of how much you pay. It was very well supported and I had tons of fun in it while never spending a penny on item packs.

 

GTA Online is another matter. Most of the new content is fluff, like exotic cars or unusual but poorly performing weapons, that just happens to cost loads of money that was made harder to earn after a patch.

My only hope is if CDPR can continue offering that kind of value, it may put pressure on competitors to give us better deals. I'm not expecting developers/publishers in the US, for example, to match CDPR in terms of content. I just expect more than what we are getting for how much they are charging.

 

All of that "free content" was paid for thanks to those who spent real money. Even if you weren't one of them, there were clearly enough to keep content going for ME3. BioWare was only going to support the game as long as they were making money off the MP. They clearly made a lot as the microtransaction model was a huge success.

 

GTA Online is essentially an MMO, so it's not really too surprising. Rockstar is planning on supporting it until GTA VI is released. This is just a way for them to continue making money off of GTA V while we wait for the long development cycle of GTA VI to be completed.

[AlanC9]

I would much rather the Reapers had not been explained at all so we'd be left to wonder what they were, what their motivations were, why they did what they did, how they went about doing it, etc etc. A big godly mystery as opposed to being the playthings of an A.I. with faulty repetitious logic.

I don't think this would have worked for me. I'm pretty sure that I would have seen this as a total cop-out; a blatant admission by the writers that they never did have any idea what the Reapers were, and that they just made up something that sounded cool without bothering to figure out how it worked.

[Revan Reborn]

I don't think this would have worked for me. I'm pretty sure that I would have seen this as a total cop-out; a blatant admission by the writers that they never did have any idea what the Reapers were, and that they just made up something that sounded cool without bothering to figure out how it worked.

Exactly. It would have cheapened the entire franchise. Why present a mysterious race of highly-advanced, sentient machines only to never explore that at all? The games were set up for us to expect that we would finally understand what the reapers were about by the time the trilogy ended. That would have been similar to never finding out that Darth Vader was Luke's father. It would have severely crippled Vader's character and the rest of the trilogy would not have worked to lead to his redemption and saving Luke. To not explain an antagonist at all just because you are fearful some of your fans won't like your explanation is cowardly and irresponsible to your audience.

[SlottsMachine]

The Reapers were supposed to have been completely alien and unknowable, both in there nature and there goals. At least that's how I understood it from ME1. Not how it turned out that there nature and goals were very easy to understand, they couldn't be any simpler to understand. 

[Drakoriz]

The Reapers were supposed to have been completely alien and unknowable, both in there nature and there goals. At least that's how I understood it from ME1. Not how it turned out that there nature and goals were very easy to understand, they couldn't be any simpler to understand. 

 

that is the fun of it. U dont control the direction of the game u are just a user of someone else story. After ME 2 the agenda of the repaear was clear and we know they were not as alien and unknowable.

 

I mean, the whole ME lore discussion i see here and there, is like arguing about Lord of the Rings lore or Warcraft lore or Starcraft lore. Or any big game that have a deep lore as Bioware games.

We cant control the story we just form part of it, with some limit freedom.