303 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthSliver]

Yeah DLCs are too expensive these days, you usually have to decided whether you will invest that time into the game or not to make the dlc purchase worthwhile. I do feel that companies should give us more for our buck and not make us feel like we wasted 15 dollars. I think that is the main issue with a 15 dollar price tag on the dlc, we expect much from that price tag but the dlc offers us so little. Companies altogether need to quit releasing DLC that make us feel like we wasted money and that is what I think the purpose of this thread really goes to. 

 

We want more bang for out buck and less fluff. 

 

Also Bioware could be like Bandai and release preorder exclusive dlc that never is seen on the dlc list in the store. So I guess it could be worst is basically want I am saying. 

[Il Divo]

I prefer FromSoftware's way of doing DLC.

 

To be fair, From is in a category of awesomeness all their own. 

[Revan Reborn]

Yeah DLCs are too expensive these days, you usually have to decided whether you will invest that time into the game or not to make the dlc purchase worthwhile. I do feel that companies should give us more for our buck and not make us feel like we wasted 15 dollars. I think that is the main issue with a 15 dollar price tag on the dlc, we expect much from that price tag but the dlc offers us so little. Companies altogether need to quit releasing DLC that make us feel like we wasted money and that is what I think the purpose of this thread really goes to. 

 

We want more bang for out buck and less fluff. 

 

Also Bioware could be like Bandai and release preorder exclusive dlc that never is seen on the dlc list in the store. So I guess it could be worst is basically want I am saying. 

I think the biggest issue is there is no early adopter discount or anything with EA DLC. Also, BioWare DLC never goes on sale. It's kind of sad ME1-3 are still charging full price for DLC on Origin all these years later.

 

Also, I have no issue with Bandai's policy as they are abundantly transparent that the DLC is for early adopters only and they tell folks months in advance. It's a way of giving back to fans who pay full price for their games rather than waiting for a Steam discount to get the game half off six months or a year later.

[Il Divo]

Gamers can unlock content through play if they way. I'm not taking that away from them.

 

To be clear though, how does that get reconciled with unlockability being anti-consumer? If I'm understanding you correctly, I don't quite see how you can avoid having unlocked components while allowing gamers to unlock content via playing. 

[Navasha]

Was Witcher 3 really that good of an example though?   

 

I loved Witcher 3.   However, in the time frame of them releasing all their 'free' DLC components I finished the game... Twice!   I am also a completionist, so its not like I didn't see half the game.

 

I still haven't bought any DLC for Witcher 3 and will likely wait for the next big expansion before buying them.    So, yes, I do love to see DLC be big and expansive, but it would be better if it was brought about in such a time frame when I am still experiencing the game.   

 

As it is, It might be a year before I want to do another run through the game and the DLC will likely wait until then.

[KaiserShep]

I don't understand the point of keeping pets in real life. I certainly don't understand it in the ME games.

As an IRL aquarium enthusiast that likes his cat more than most people, I cannot justify this with a serious response!

[Nattfare]

Everytime you ask "what's the best game you've ever played/best game of 2015/best game made on planet Earth" 90% will tell you "Witcher 3". Don't get me wrong - I still think it's amazing game and deserves most of the awards. But come on, there are way better games out there (but ofc not all of them have brutality, brothels, sex scenes and super sexy chicks)

 

CDR and Wiedźmin has put Poland on the world map of gaming though. Techland has been close a few times, I think, but they aren't there yet.

 

There is always going to be bias from the Polish people on the series in this matter. It's a feather in the hat for everyone.

Even people in Poland that aren't into gaming at all were talking about the game.

 

Edit: A bit of clarification on the final sentence.

[LinksOcarina]

CDR and Wiedźmin has put Poland on the world map of gaming though. Techland has been close a few times, I think, but they aren't there yet.

 

There is always going to be bias from the Polish people on the series in this matter. It's a feather in the hat for everyone.

Even people that weren't into gaming at all were talking about the game.

 

In one sense that is really good. 

 

In another it does color perceptions. On the plus side, we can only hope other Polish companies can continue the growth outside of CD Projekt Red in the long run.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As an IRL aquarium enthusiast that likes his cat more than most people, I cannot justify this with a serious response!

Seriously, what is the point of a pet? I just don't get it.

It seems like a lot of responsibility and expense with little or no payoff.

[Sylvius the Mad]

VO discussions are purely subjective and have no place here. They are in and BGS isn't taking them out.

The subjective value of VO is why it's so important that we be able to mod it out or alter it.

Again, I already gave you an example of engine limitations. Fallout 4 is actually not nearly as moddable as Skyrim, and it's the same engine. The author of Enhanced Natural Beauty (ENB) was having so many issues trying to alter the game that he literally gave up because some aspects of the game and engine are broken. That's pretty alarming for the modding community when ENB is one of the most popular and most desirable mods in BGS games.

There's no GECK yet for FO4. Once there is, then we can see how similar the moddability is.

[FKA_Servo]

Seriously, what is the point of a pet? I just don't get it.

It seems like a lot of responsibility and expense with little or no payoff.

 

Speaking as someone with too many pets, they're frequently better company than other human beings..

[Revan Reborn]

The subjective value of VO is why it's so important that we be able to mod it out or alter it.
There's no GECK yet for FO4. Once there is, then we can see how similar the moddability is.

My point is VO has nothing to do with limitations of the Creation Engine. Rather, it's a philosophical debate about roleplay that has no right or wrong answer. It's a matter of preference with pros and cons associated with it.

 

I could be mistaken, but I believe the ENB functions irrespective of the Creation Kit. It's an entirely separate third party application. Even with the Creation Kit's eventually release in April, these issues stem entirely from apparent engine limitations with how Fallout 4 operates rather than anything else. Again, even before the Creation Kit was released for Skyrim, that game was far easier to mod than Fallout 4 currently is.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Speaking as someone with too many pets, they're frequently better company than other human beings..

I often don't see why people keep those around, either.

I prefer to be alone.

[Akrabra]

I often don't see why people keep those around, either.

I prefer to be alone.

You don't say.

[Sylvius the Mad]

My point is VO has nothing to do with limitations of the Creation Engine. Rather, it's a philosophical debate about roleplay that has no right or wrong answer. It's a matter of preference with pros and cons associated with it.

And my point is that anything that is a matter of preference should be moddable.

I won't risk that for prettier graphics that are themselves a matter of preference.

I could be mistaken, but I believe the ENB functions irrespective of the Creation Kit. It's an entirely separate third party application.

That's how it runs. I'm talking about how to build it.

Even with the Creation Kit's eventually release in April...

April? Did I miss an announcment?

The last statement I saw said Q1 2016.

As for how moddable Skyrim was, I'd need to go back and check the quality of mods released at the end of 2011. I don't recall them being awesome.

[Revan Reborn]

And my point is that anything that is a matter of preference should be moddable.

I won't risk that for prettier graphics that are themselves a matter of preference.
That's how it runs. I'm talking about how to build it.
April? Did I miss an announcment?

The last statement I saw said Q1 2016.

As for how moddable Skyrim was, I'd need to go back and check the quality of mods released at the end of 2011. I don't recall them being awesome.

Todd Howard talked to GI after his presentation at DICE this past week and he stated that the Creation Kit would be coming to PC sometime between the first and second release of their season pass DLC. That places it in April, so the previous estimate of Q1 2016 was inaccurate.

 

It's not about whether they were "awesome." It's about whether modding for Skyrim pre-creation kit was easier or not. Based on what many modders have articulated with the release of Fallout 4, BGS changed things with the game that make it increasingly difficult for mods to be used and work properly.

[Urizen]

To a point. Even modding can only go but so far due to engine limitations. There was a really ambitious mod that was attempting to increase the landmass of Skyrim. They realized once they went outside the borders created by the game that all sorts of bugs and issues started to occur, making the experience unplayable. This was due to the fact that the engine literally could not render anything else without it being game breaking.

What was the name of the mod and what kind of issues did occur? Just curious.

To always better yourself? If you make the same game over and over - which BGS has done since Morrowind, and really Arena - eventually the competition is going to leave you in the dust. What their common trend has been as of late is to release a mediocre, uninspiring game and allow modders to fix their mess. That's a disservice to everybody involved.

I do enjoy FO4 but still have to agree with this. For me, this is not a Fallout but an Elder Scrolls.

Obviously the new engine would be modder-friendly. That's a given considering BGS' development model. Again, BGS has the money and the resources to build an entirely new engine from scratch better than the Creation Engine in every way. There's no excuse for them to not to do so. What's even more troubling is that they currently have three long-term projects in development that aren't Fallout 4. More than likely, all these future projects will be running on the Creation Engine.

Money? Yes! Resources? If you count Engineprogrammers as resources, then no. They only have one (!) Programmer who codes the Engine, 3 if you count the guys creating the tools necessary. That is not a lot of manpower to create a new Engine from scratch.
One project will be the next TES, that´s a given. But what are the other two?

Selling well and being criticized by the community are mutually exclusive. The game was breaking records its first 24 hours before anyone even played it. However, you'd be foolish to think many people haven't been suffering issues with the game. Just go to Bethsoft's forums for Fallout 4 and the forums are littered with people having broken games. It went so far that Bethesda was asking the community to send in their save files because so many people were running into game breaking bugs and other issues.

Oh, I know of the Issues, I do hop over to the bethsoft forums from time to time. And you used the right word, littered, instead of filled. The latter would be of real concern, the former is to be expected with any game. Displeased people are usually the most vocal. In 280 hours of play I had one Issue and that one was resolved through saving and reloading the game. Not bad for an engine that´s supposedly so bad.

VO discussions are purely subjective and have no place here. They are in and BGS isn't taking them out.

Agreed.

Again, I already gave you an example of engine limitations. Fallout 4 is actually not nearly as moddable as Skyrim, and it's the same engine. The author of Enhanced Natural Beauty (ENB) was having so many issues trying to alter the game that he literally gave up because some aspects of the game and engine are broken. That's pretty alarming for the modding community when ENB is one of the most popular and most desirable mods in BGS games.

It´s the same engine and yet it´s not. The API changed from DX9 to DX11. Add to that NVidias Gameworks or whatever it´s called and it´s not entirely the same engine anymore. So why does Boris have so many troubles with it? Maybe it´s because of the code from NVidia and less because of the Code by Bethesda?

Nexusmods as of this post lists 8155 files for Fallout 4. Given the fact that the official tools haven´t been released yet and that some of the unofficial tools are in alpha or beta stages and the game has been out for almost 4 months now, I don´t see any signs of it being as unmoddable as you claim it to be. Once the GECK comes out and F4SE comes fully online, we will see mods of the same calibre as we have now for Skyrim.

[Revan Reborn]

What was the name of the mod and what kind of issues did occur? Just curious.


I do enjoy FO4 but still have to agree with this. For me, this is not a Fallout but an Elder Scrolls.


Money? Yes! Resources? If you count Engineprogrammers as resources, then no. They only have one (!) Programmer who codes the Engine, 3 if you count the guys creating the tools necessary. That is not a lot of manpower to create a new Engine from scratch.
One project will be the next TES, that´s a given. But what are the other two?


Oh, I know of the Issues, I do hop over to the bethsoft forums from time to time. And you used the right word, littered, instead of filled. The latter would be of real concern, the former is to be expected with any game. Displeased people are usually the most vocal. In 280 hours of play I had one Issue and that one was resolved through saving and reloading the game. Not bad for an engine that´s supposedly so bad.


Agreed.


It´s the same engine and yet it´s not. The API changed from DX9 to DX11. Add to that NVidias Gameworks or whatever it´s called and it´s not entirely the same engine anymore. So why does Boris have so many troubles with it? Maybe it´s because of the code from NVidia and less because of the Code by Bethesda?

Nexusmods as of this post lists 8155 files for Fallout 4. Given the fact that the official tools haven´t been released yet and that some of the unofficial tools are in alpha or beta stages and the game has been out for almost 4 months now, I don´t see any signs of it being as unmoddable as you claim it to be. Once the GECK comes out and F4SE comes fully online, we will see mods of the same calibre as we have now for Skyrim.

I don't know what the mod was called, but it was a project in which they were trying to create all of Tamriel's provinces using Skyrim's engine. They found out really quickly by going outside the bounds of Skyrim's forced barriers that the engine runs into all sorts of technical issues.

 

More reason for BGS to hire engine programmers so that they actually can build a new engine. As far as the projects, who knows? Todd mentioned them at DICE and said they were all long-term. He also mentioned that they are also not all large in scale.

 

You would be fortunate. There was a really nasty bug that occurred for a lot of folks when they got to the middle of downtown Boston. Their game would CTD and there was no reason for it. Upon trying to get away from that area their game was unplayable as their file was completely corrupted. That was probably the most severe bug that was running rampant the first month of release.

 

I can't remember what the issue was specifically, but I believe he was trying to incorporate ambient occlusion into the game and it literally was not possible as it was game breaking. It's likely more of a DX11 issue as BGS has no experience coding with that API and as a result probably made quite a mess.

 

That's not a lot of mods for a game that has been out three months. Not to mention, some of those mods you are mentioning are literally icon swaps and other minor tweaks that don't actually change the game in any manor. I am fairly certain Skyrim had a lot more mods at this point in its life before the Creation Kit was finally released. Again, I think the issue was the transition to DX11 and BGS not knowing what it's doing.

[Drakoriz]

Again, I already gave you an example of engine limitations. Fallout 4 is actually not nearly as moddable as Skyrim, and it's the same engine. The author of Enhanced Natural Beauty (ENB) was having so many issues trying to alter the game that he literally gave up because some aspects of the game and engine are broken. That's pretty alarming for the modding community when ENB is one of the most popular and most desirable mods in BGS games.

 

this is miss information there is no limitation on the modding on Fallout 4, the only differences is the the creation Kit isnt out that all.

 

Mod can change the game all the way around i dont know what u speaking about, bc i have for Skyrim the mod that reconstruct morrowind that have 0 issues and for NV i have the one that take u to Denver i think and there is a new campaign and all that u star as a slave of the legion.

 

Mod is what make the creation engine so powerful and Bethesda knows that. And most of the mod community knows that too. That why if u go to the forums as u said u will see the ppl QQ about a new engien are a minority. Is more now that Bethesda is bringing mod to console that will open a new door, that only GTA have right now and no other game have.

 

And about the ppl having nasty bugs. Really most game have a minority of ppl having issues with the game, and that what ppl got with Fallout 4.

It happen on Witcher 3 and on DA and on ME and on MGS. Most of the time, is the video card drivers, or the game needing 1 or 2 updates.

Witcher 3 have alot of issues on PC till it go downgrade. MGS this year have issues too till the first patch. Really isnt on the engine the problems u claim.

[Urizen]

I don't know what the mod was called, but it was a project in which they were trying to create all of Tamriel's provinces using Skyrim's engine. They found out really quickly by going outside the bounds of Skyrim's forced barriers that the engine runs into all sorts of technical issues.
 
More reason for BGS to hire engine programmers so that they actually can build a new engine. As far as the projects, who knows? Todd mentioned them at DICE and said they were all long-term. He also mentioned that they are also not all large in scale.
 
You would be fortunate. There was a really nasty bug that occurred for a lot of folks when they got to the middle of downtown Boston. Their game would CTD and there was no reason for it. Upon trying to get away from that area their game was unplayable as their file was completely corrupted. That was probably the most severe bug that was running rampant the first month of release.
 
I can't remember what the issue was specifically, but I believe he was trying to incorporate ambient occlusion into the game and it literally was not possible as it was game breaking. It's likely more of a DX11 issue as BGS has no experience coding with that API and as a result probably made quite a mess.
 
That's not a lot of mods for a game that has been out three months. Not to mention, some of those mods you are mentioning are literally icon swaps and other minor tweaks that don't actually change the game in any manor. I am fairly certain Skyrim had a lot more mods at this point in its life before the Creation Kit was finally released. Again, I think the issue was the transition to DX11 and BGS not knowing what it's doing.

Heard of that mod. And IIRC, the Issue was memory related. Which is something that every engine at one point or another is prone to succumb to.

 

Debatable whether that makes sense or not. As far as BGS is concerned, the engine does everything BGS needs. And for most players, there aren´t any issues at all.

 

Most of the issues I read about were performance related in downtown Boston. It´s the first time I hear about savegame corruption.

 

Why incorporate AO when it actually already was and is in the game?

 

I got my first mod roughly 3 months after I got Skyrim ( which I got in December ), IIRC the amount of files were roughly the same, as were the types of mods. What that has anything to do with Bethesda is anybodies guess.

[LPPrince]

Bioware has always charged too much for their DLCs or at the very least have charged too much for far too long. When you compare how much you get from the DLCs of other companies at the same price points it makes Bioware's DLCs look ridiculously overpriced.

[AlanC9]

I think the biggest issue is there is no early adopter discount or anything with EA DLC. Also, BioWare DLC never goes on sale. It's kind of sad ME1-3 are still charging full price for DLC on Origin all these years later.

I believe DAI DLCs have gone on sale, though.

[Commander Rpg]

Bioware has always charged too much for their DLCs or at the very least have charged too much for far too long. When you compare how much you get from the DLCs of other companies at the same price points it makes Bioware's DLCs look ridiculously overpriced.

The next step will be to charge a 10 minutes long DLC, taken from the end of the game, as it was an expansion. Although I think someone has really done that.

[Revan Reborn]

I believe DAI DLCs have gone on sale, though.

I don't know about on consoles, but it has on PC during Origin sales. I saw it on sale during the holidays I think when the GotY edition was also on sale. I think the sale made all the DLCs $10 instead of $15. My point was, however, that ME1-3 DLC has never gone on sale on origin as far as I can remember. Perhaps, DAI's trend will inform what BioWare will do in the future, hopefully.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Hell, I think even the Dragon Age: Origins DLCs are still up for the original price, or close enough, if you buy from the in-game market. Last time I checked anyway.

 

Then again, Skyrim for instance has the same problem; I believe that the Dragonborn DLC alone costs more than half as much as the Legendary Edition which is the base game plus all the add-ons. DLC does tend not to go down in price, they just expect people to buy the Game of the Year edition or however it is called that day.

 

I do think they overcharge for some of their DLCs. Trespasser had a good amount of content, and JoH at least had a big area, but Descent surely wasn't worth the asking price.