186 réponses à ce sujet

[MrFob]

Nice to know but I still don´t know Mr.Fobs preferred ending.

 
Just so you know:

[rossler]

Sound is all messed up.

[Monica21]

It´s about what quite a lot of IT supporters at that time thought or hoped would be in the announced DLC. My question was: Before the extended cut, weren´t IT people expecting that the ending DLC BW announced, to be the confirmation that the pre EC ending is an illusion?

They were, and from what I've seen, it was a theory/hope that wasn't entirely unsupported by Bioware. And in some cases, it was a theory that was actively encouraged via Twitter and other social media outlets. So it wasn't like this hope came from nowhere.

[Dantriges]

Huh? BW encouraged IT via Twitter?
 

Just so you know:

 
Wait a moment. You let an Ai based on Conrad Verner´s thought patterns control the Reapers and the galaxy?

[rossler]

Huh? BW encouraged IT via Twitter?

 

Yeah a few times. Some subtle hints.

[Monica21]

Huh? BW encouraged IT via Twitter?

Mostly the exchanges were something like,

ITer: OMG, Bioware, was Shepard indoctrinated?!
Bioware: I wish I could say more but I'm so excited about the DLC! Stay tuned!

They certainly weren't discouraging it, and they were actively engaging with ITers shortly after release.

[rossler]

They wanted to keep it open to interpretation.

[Monica21]

They wanted to keep it open to interpretation.

Which, given the investment the fans had in that theory and that they knew any DLC wouldn't give those fans what they wanted, seems a little mean.

[rossler]

I don't see keeping things open to interpretation as malicious.

[Monica21]

I don't see keeping things open to interpretation as malicious.

I don't either, but it's certainly misleading. Especially considering the fervor at the time.

[Supreme Leech]

There is no indoctrination theory. I admit, the indoctrination theory is beautiful and it's magnificent. Which is why the writers couldn't have come up with it. You give them too much credit. All the writers were capable of was being lazy and delivering a very weak story.

The reasons for the reapers moving the citadel to the Sol system were never explained. No reason is needed anyway, considering how tragically the story and the writing fell apart right at the end.

[gothpunkboy89]

There is no indoctrination theory. I admit, the indoctrination theory is beautiful and it's magnificent. Which is why the writers couldn't have come up with it. You give them too much credit. All the writers were capable of was being lazy and delivering a very weak story.

The reasons for the reapers moving the citadel to the Sol system were never explained. No reason is needed anyway, considering how tragically the story and the writing fell apart right at the end.

 

Nah IT theory is kind of weak actually. Laughable to me.

 

The fact that the Reaper's knew it was needed by Shepard. The fact that drawing it to Earth would entice him more. The fact that fighting against a Gravity well would give them the advantage. The fact that Earth was one of the hardest planets hit and thus one of the strongest points of Reaper conquest during this cycle. Fact with the arms closed and everyone inside dead they would be forced to try and land troops though area's were the Reapers have plenty of AA guns to pick ships off. Killing dozens of soilders at once.

 

Reaper's set a perfect trap to draw in the combined forces of the galaxy to wipe them out in one fight. And they walked right into it hook line and sinker.

 

To be honest they shouldn't need to explain any of this. It should be fairly obvious just looking at how the game played out.

[Iakus]

I don't either, but it's certainly misleading. Especially considering the fervor at the time.

Even worse was, pre EC suggesting EDI and the geth could have survived Destroy, albiet in a diminished state (ie no more Reaper upgrades) just to get sucker-punched a second time with EC

[themikefest]

There is nothing that says everyone on the Citadel is dead. I believe a BioWare employee mentioned all named characters on the Citadel survived plus there were bunkers for people to hide to avoid the danger. Don't know how many though. The reapers didn't need to move the Citadel to Earth. Keeping it where it was would've made it nearly impossible for Shepard and anyone else to get on the Citadel especially with the arms closed and if the reapers had x number of them surrounding the Citadel to protect it

 

The reapers didn't set the perfect trap on Earth. If they want to a make it perfect, don't have the beam on while the organics are making a push to the beam. Even have more than the one destroyer guarding the beam. Yeah. The reapers are a couple cans short of a six pack. I guess that happens when you have faulty programming

[gothpunkboy89]

There is nothing that says everyone on the Citadel is dead. I believe a BioWare employee mentioned all named characters on the Citadel survived plus there were bunkers for people to hide to avoid the danger. Don't know how many though. The reapers didn't need to move the Citadel to Earth. Keeping it where it was would've made it nearly impossible for Shepard and anyone else to get on the Citadel especially with the arms closed and if the reapers had x number of them surrounding the Citadel to protect it

 

The reapers didn't set the perfect trap on Earth. If they want to a make it perfect, don't have the beam on while the organics are making a push to the beam. Even have more than the one destroyer guarding the beam. Yeah. The reapers are a couple cans short of a six pack. I guess that happens when you have faulty programming

 

Yea all named characters. Bunkers that legions of husks, cannibals, brutes, marauders and banshee's couldn't find. The same group that was able to tract Shepard across space to find the Leviathan planet. Forcing them to join in the fight or die. Yea sure.

 

But it was a perfect trap. You need bait to lure your target into a trap. You don't catch a mouse by putting an empty mouse trap out and hoping they are stupid enough to walk over it. They aren't. You put a bit of cheese out to lure them to the trap.

 

In space putting it in orbit above the Earth limits  were the larger ships can attack from. Against the gravity well of the planet also limits their manuverability. To far in and they have to expend more power to strengthen the ME field to keep them from being pulled in.  Reapers lack these disabilities as their ME fields are so powerful they can despite their massive size enter and exit the gravity of planets without trouble.

 

Forcing a ground only attack in an area they already heavily control allows them to pick off troops by the dozen. If not out right killing them then injuring them and rounding them up to be made into the next wave of husks or harvested to create another Reaper.  Thus hurting their ability to fight ground combat in other systems.

 

If you pay attention there is a note of panic before the final push towards the beam how few makos and other heavy vehicles there are. Because the wave bringing them were almost completely wiped out by Reaper AA fire.

 

If it were purely a space battle less troops would be needed. Less vehicles would be used. Thus the ability for the galaxy to resist the Reapers would remain stronger for a little bit longer.

[themikefest]

It was not a perfect trap. If it was, Shepard would never of gotten to the Citadel

[gothpunkboy89]

It was not a perfect trap. If it was, Shepard would never of gotten to the Citadel

Shepard got onto the Citadel severely wounded with no idea how to operate anything and certainly no idea how to fire the Crucible.  Without the AI's interference Shepard would have died of his wounds there on the Citadel. No step closer to making the Crucible fire. All that effort and life spent without any reward from it.

[themikefest]

Still not a perfect trap. The reapers failed. So much for the perfect trap

[rossler]

Reapers wanted Shepard to get to the Citadel. If they didn't Harbinger would have just killed him before he went through the beam.

 

Say in the Extended Cut, Harbinger would shoot the Normandy down as it was rescuing your squad, and it would fall on top of Shepard, killing him.

 

Instead, he doesn't shoot and flies off as soon as you get up.

 

Or as gothpunkboy89 stated, you would have been left to bleed out without being let up to where the Crucible was.

 

Reapers wanted Shepard alive this whole time. Right up until the moment where they present the choices. If you look at the choices, they were part of the Reapers' plans for Shepard all along.

 

You know, all that talk about "you cannot comprehend your place in things", "we are your genetic destiny", "you cannot escape your destiny Shepard", "struggle if you wish your mind will be mine". Well, the Reapers' being Shepard's genetic destiny fits perfectly with synthesis. As well as Harbinger wanting to control your mind fits perfectly with control.

 

It all fits with what the previous games talked about. You can submit to the Reapers' plan or tell them off by destroying them.

[Dantriges]

Reapers: "Yesss, we want Shepard right there next to the one button which could blow us up, we are just so sinister, that we don´t tell him. Ups we just did. Ah doesn´t matter, in his state he can´t get to the side, unless there would be a walkway...which we just raised. Ok. Let´s hope he bought our sales pitch on synthesis. Oh wait a moment, there is no option for synthesis because he didn´t collect enough war assets to protect the Crucible sufficiently and so we damaged it too much? Ah at least we get to see his world burn with us."

 

Yes, sounds like the typical Reaper plan.

[gothpunkboy89]

Still not a perfect trap. The reapers failed. So much for the perfect trap

 

Just going to dig your heels in like a stubborn mule on this point aren't you? I've come to expect this of you how ever on certain things. You can't let go when you are obviously wrong.

 

-Reapers were tearing the fleet apart in pace with minimal casualties.

-Ground assault which was the full force they could muster wasn't just pushed back. It was utterly destroyed

-Of the thousands of solders advancing on the beam only 2 made it on board and one was already critically injured.

-Indoctrinated TIM was waiting for them. Kills Anderson gets killed/Suicide leaving a still critically wounded Shepard with no way to activate the Crucible.

 

The only reason why the crucible is even able to be activated is because the Reaper's creator AI stepped in.

 

It was a trap that worked perfectly. Reapers drew out all their military power and was in the process of crushing it under their multi ton tentacle leg things.

[themikefest]

It was Patrick Weekes that said people survived on the Citadel

 

The moment Vendetta told Shepard that TIM informed the reapers that the Citadel was the catalyst and that Shepard and others knew, the bait was set. The reapers didn't have to move the Citadel to Earth. All they had to do was leave x number of reapers protecting the Citadel waiting for the organics to show up.

 

Here's a post giving the numbers the reapers might have before this cycle starts. If the reapers had just say, 500 or 1000 capital ships surrounding the Citadel protecting it, the organics wouldn't have a chance. The same if they had that many guarding it over Earth. They would destroy the fleets in a very short time without any problem. That didn't happen.

 

Had they left the Citadel where it was with that many reapers protecting it, what would the organics do to get the arms open. I see only two ways. 1) Try to get hold of someone on the Citadel to get the arms open. Don't know if anyone tried to get a hold of anyone on the Citadel before the fleets headed to Earth. And 2) Send Shepard to Ilos to see if there's anyway to use the conduit again to get on the Citadel.

 

The reapers had the perfect plan until the prothean scientists altered the signal. It seems the reapers couldn't adjust to that. Once they entered the Milky Way and headed to the Citadel first, the cycle would've been the same as all previous cycles before except they didn't use the Citadel to start their attack.

 

 

As far as the organics taking a lot of loses over Earth. That only happens if ems is under 2300. Otherwise they seem to be holding their own for the time being. I don't agree with that. The reapers should've torn the fleets apart with ease no matter what the player's ems was.

 

Ground force was destroyed?  You mean hammer forces?  Depending on your ems, Anderson will say 25%, 40% or 50% of hammer have made it. The problem with that is I would never of sent the fleets to Earth until those hades cannons were destroyed first. Don't know why Anderson couldn't send a few teams with heavy weapons to destroy them.

 

Thousands of soldiers were running to the beam? Mmmm. I have to see a video showing me the thousands running to the beam. If I had Shepard stand still for however long, I'm sure a thousand soldiers would eventually run by to the beam. That beam run was a joke. The plan was a joke.

 

I would guess the reason why Anderson and Shepard were the only ones that made it up the beam was to have the touchy-feely scene.

 

Was TIM waiting for Shepard?  Or was he waiting for the crucible?

 

The reaper creator stepped in? Why didn't the thing do that for Sovereign? Mmmm. I wonder if it has anything to do with ME3, being the third game in the trilogy, is the best place to start playing a trilogy?

[Dantriges]

Oh, the Catalyst was too busy telling him how he failed and they´ll find another way or the Catalyst was too embarassed by Saren the frog to get associated with that.

[gothpunkboy89]

It was Patrick Weekes that said people survived on the Citadel

 

The moment Vendetta told Shepard that TIM informed the reapers that the Citadel was the catalyst and that Shepard and others knew, the bait was set. The reapers didn't have to move the Citadel to Earth. All they had to do was leave x number of reapers protecting the Citadel waiting for the organics to show up.

 

Here's a post giving the numbers the reapers might have before this cycle starts. If the reapers had just say, 500 or 1000 capital ships surrounding the Citadel protecting it, the organics wouldn't have a chance. The same if they had that many guarding it over Earth. They would destroy the fleets in a very short time without any problem. That didn't happen.

 

Had they left the Citadel where it was with that many reapers protecting it, what would the organics do to get the arms open. I see only two ways. 1) Try to get hold of someone on the Citadel to get the arms open. Don't know if anyone tried to get a hold of anyone on the Citadel before the fleets headed to Earth. And 2) Send Shepard to Ilos to see if there's anyway to use the conduit again to get on the Citadel.

 

The reapers had the perfect plan until the prothean scientists altered the signal. It seems the reapers couldn't adjust to that. Once they entered the Milky Way and headed to the Citadel first, the cycle would've been the same as all previous cycles before except they didn't use the Citadel to start their attack.

 

 

As far as the organics taking a lot of loses over Earth. That only happens if ems is under 2300. Otherwise they seem to be holding their own for the time being. I don't agree with that. The reapers should've torn the fleets apart with ease no matter what the player's ems was.

 

Ground force was destroyed?  You mean hammer forces?  Depending on your ems, Anderson will say 25%, 40% or 50% of hammer have made it. The problem with that is I would never of sent the fleets to Earth until those hades cannons were destroyed first. Don't know why Anderson couldn't send a few teams with heavy weapons to destroy them.

 

Thousands of soldiers were running to the beam? Mmmm. I have to see a video showing me the thousands running to the beam. If I had Shepard stand still for however long, I'm sure a thousand soldiers would eventually run by to the beam. That beam run was a joke. The plan was a joke.

 

I would guess the reason why Anderson and Shepard were the only ones that made it up the beam was to have the touchy-feely scene.

 

Was TIM waiting for Shepard?  Or was he waiting for the crucible?

 

The reaper creator stepped in? Why didn't the thing do that for Sovereign? Mmmm. I wonder if it has anything to do with ME3, being the third game in the trilogy, is the best place to start playing a trilogy?

 

Yes people managed to avoid reaper hordes and survive the blast of the Citadel firing. And people complain about Shepard being able to survive on high EMS Destroy.

 

If people survived on the citadel then getting someone to open the arms wouldn't be a problem. How ever keeping it to space only battle would limit the ground forces used against them. This would leave those ground forces in existence to resist them else were. You seem to be missing the point when I say trap. It is obvious in any direct confrontation the Reapers have all the cards. But the set up they had on Earth drew out all their forces. Space, Air and Ground units to be torn apart by them. That is kind of the key information. In space ground units are kind of pointless. There would be minimal need for Air as well since the ships and their fighters would be doing all the work.

 

Seriously they already won. How ever it was a trap because it got them to expose ALL MILITARY ELEMENTS TO THEM AT ONCE.  Rather then one or two at a time else were.

 

Actually the harvest would not be the same. Shepard showed they could over ride Reaper control. Going after it first would simply get them to close up and the Reapers would be SOL. Seriously the plot of the first game is that Sovereign needs direct contact with Citadel to make it work. And then Shep and team show up and disable his control long enough to open the arms to let the 5th Fleet attack him.  Them showing up the Council would have responded by closing the arms and sealing the station. So even if everyone died in it the Citadel would remain sealed permanently kind of messing up their plan. 

 

Leaving it alone not only allows the species to cluster into one convenient place but it also creates a sort of false sense of security. Since everywhere BUT the citadel is being hit hard. Some times that is all you need to spring a deadly trap on them.

 

Yea and officially every single person in Shepard's squad accompanies him at once on missions. But the game can only handle 2 at a time. Getting to the beam was the only reason for the push forwards. They would throw everything they had at it to ensure the most amount of troops reached the beam.

 

If you don't understand why Anderson couldn't send a few troops to destory the heavy cannons. You really don't understand the game or what is going on. Which means you didn't pay attention to any time you talked to him. Since you left Earth he and the resistance have been playing a game of hide and seek for keeps with the Reapers. Staging hit and run tactics that does minimal damage before needing to find a completely new place to hide.  At this point in time the Reapers have had their way with Earth for at least 6 months if not more. The very first level you see the kind of damage Reapers are capable of dealing in a few hours. Give them months of non stop attacking and Anderson is lucky to have a working gun. Particularly since all military bases were the first thing they targeted. The only reason they even have the hardware they are shown before the final push is because all that was brought in from ships in space. Pulled in from bases on other planets or ships the Reaper's haven't hit yet or were evacuated taking as many goods as they could.

 

As for TIM I would say both. He expected Shepard to make it because that is what Shepard does. He was also waiting for the Crucible to attach so he could attempt to control the Reapers.

[themikefest]

So now you admit that people did survive being on the Citadel whereas in an earlier post of yours you say, yea sure. Was it because I provided proof from a BioWare employee?

 

I'm not missing any point.

 

The harvest would be the same. No one knows when they will arrive. If the council was able to shut the arms preventing the reapers to get in, why didn't that happen before the Citadel went to Earth? And if the thing says the Citadel is part of it, why couldn't it open the arms letting in it toys?

 

The plan to get to the beam was pathetic.

 

My way would've been to send the Normandy to Earth with a few teams onboard to deal with the hades cannons before the main fleets head to Earth. Why? The Normandy has the iff so the reapers wouldn't pay it any attention. It drops off the teams in an undisclosed location outside of London where they meet up with Anderson. From there the teams are assigned to destroy the cannons. Once done, the fleets head to Earth.

 

I don't agree about the six months. Shepard, when talking to Tali at the fob, says its been a few months. I look at few meaning 3 maybe 4