186 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

Possibly dumb question, but couldn't the Normandy use its Thannix cannon on the Hades cannon, not to mention the Reaper Destroyer? Or use the same weapon Shepard used to the target the Rannoch Reaper. I never really understood why the door to door fighting was necessary when you've got an agile ship with heavy firepower, not to mention one that is small enough to land in the middle of a London street/plaza thingy.

[themikefest]

The thannix cannon would destroy the hades cannon. Just have it fire at the thing from behind so it avoids its beam of doom. The same with a destroyer. Not sure what damage the cannon would do against the destroyer. Too bad there wasn't a scene for that too happen.

 

I know I would've had Shepard call Joker to fire on Harbinger from behind. It would distract Harbinger long enough for Shepard and squad to get to the beam

[rossler]

There was a scene. They fired most of the Thannix missiles. It did little damage. So Shepard calls in the fleet to finish the destroyer off.

[Monica21]

There was a scene. They fired most of the Thannix missiles. It did little damage. So Shepard calls in the fleet to finish the destroyer off.

Thannix missiles are not the same as the Thannix Cannon the Normandy used to rip a hole in the Collector ship. Shepard et al fired two of the missiles which was enough to disable the Destoyer. But that wasn't my question. My question was why do you need ground troops to fire the missiles at all when you have a ship with a Thannix cannon on it?

[themikefest]

There was a scene. They fired most of the Thannix missiles. It did little damage. So Shepard calls in the fleet to finish the destroyer off.

Most of the thannix missles were fired? What happen to the rest? When Shepard was headed to where the missles are located, it can be heard over the comms that missiles were fired and missed. When Shepard arrives, there are  2 sets of missiles. The first set that is fired misses the target, but the second set hit the reaper. So where were  the rest of the missiles if only most were fired?

 

What fleet did Shepard call to finish off the destroyer? The only fleet that was called from Shepard was the Quarians when the target was been painted on Rannoch

 

The missiles did a lot of damage to the destroyer in London. Shepard called for the ground forces to finish it off. They did by firing tank rounds at the thing. No fleet was involved with that.

[gothpunkboy89]

So now you admit that people did survive being on the Citadel whereas in an earlier post of yours you say, yea sure. Was it because I provided proof from a BioWare employee?

 

I'm not missing any point.

 

The harvest would be the same. No one knows when they will arrive. If the council was able to shut the arms preventing the reapers to get in, why didn't that happen before the Citadel went to Earth? And if the thing says the Citadel is part of it, why couldn't it open the arms letting in it toys?

 

The plan to get to the beam was pathetic.

 

My way would've been to send the Normandy to Earth with a few teams onboard to deal with the hades cannons before the main fleets head to Earth. Why? The Normandy has the iff so the reapers wouldn't pay it any attention. It drops off the teams in an undisclosed location outside of London where they meet up with Anderson. From there the teams are assigned to destroy the cannons. Once done, the fleets head to Earth.

 

I don't agree about the six months. Shepard, when talking to Tali at the fob, says its been a few months. I look at few meaning 3 maybe 4

 

Bioware employee could also state that EDI survived the Destroy option. That only her robotic body was destroyed but she retained protection inside the Normandy and was able to be repaired like there rest of the ship. Now this goes against every grain of logic the game gives. But it is possible for them to claim that.

 

It seems to be missing the point. Because you claim it isn't a trap. When it is exactly that. When you already have victory as a sure thing and you manage to lure your enemy out to expose all their elements at the same time to wipe them out in one swift action. That is a trap. Particularly when the alternative  is a long drawn out hunting door to door to take them down.

 

The plan to get to the beam was all they had. As for the Normandy to Earth it is surrounded by Reapers. You honestly think they will only pay attention to IFF signal? If it was that easy to confuse them they would have mass produced the signal to let transports and capital ships move among them without being seeing. The entire harvest could be avoided by just loading up ships like the Quarians did and having an IFF on them and just waiting in space. But destorying the cannons isn't the only thing. Doing that would alter the Reapers way before the Fleets even arrived that there are attempts being made.  Giving them more time to replace the cannons with Reapers. Who can't be taken down nearly as easily and are much smarter.

 

Few months can be anything. Realisitly to build something as massive as Crucible it would need to be nearly a year. But 6 month is splitting the difference. But still even 3 months is still plenty of time. Reapers don't need to eat, they don't need to sleep. They never stop at any times.

[themikefest]

The plan to the beam was a joke. How hard would it of been to sneak a small squad past the destroyer to get to the beam? The destroyer was easily distracted from the small arms fire by the folks firing at it in the cutscene. Doing  that would give Shepard and squad enough time to get to the beam. I guess that sounds too easy. But that can't happen. BioWare only wanted Anderson and Shepard to get up the beam. Ok. Just have Anderson and Shepard go up while the squad stays behind.  A cutscene shows them getting on a shuttle that takes them back to the Normandy.

[rossler]

Bioware employee could also state that EDI survived the Destroy option. That only her robotic body was destroyed but she retained protection inside the Normandy and was able to be repaired like there rest of the ship. Now this goes against every grain of logic the game gives. But it is possible for them to claim that.

 

It'll be like ME2's EDI if you destroy the mobile platform. She's alive, but as a holographic AI.

[themikefest]

It'll be like ME2's EDI if you destroy the mobile platform. She's alive, but as a holographic AI.

That can happen in control. If ems is below 2000 and the edibot is taken on the bean run, the platform will be destroyed. Its name will not be on the memorial wall like it is in the destroy ending

[themikefest]

My question was why do you need ground troops to fire the missiles at all when you have a ship with a Thannix cannon on it?

My guess is if the game had more time or at least Priority Earth had more time, its possible a scene with the Normandy firing at the destroyer or Harbinger might've happened. Of course more time might've included seeing more of the war assets that was gathered in action along with seeing ME2 squadmates fighting

[dorktainian]

The Citadel moved through space to earth.  How could it do that?  It breaks the games own Lore.  The reapers would have to open a mass effect corridor big enough to fit the citadel through.... and that aint gonna happen.  Plus when we're shooting at earth....we're really shooting at earth.  Look at how many shots fly past the reapers.  Earth would have been decimated.  (remember the scene in ME2 as you enter the citadel.  theres a bloke talking to his squaddies about how much impact a shell has.... inertia is a ******)

 

So yeah if everything were real at any time after the fleets supposedly all flew through the same mass relay corridor with astounding accuracy, then earth would have been obliterated by those slugs that missed their targets.

[themikefest]

The Citadel has engines according to Barla Von in ME1

[gothpunkboy89]

The plan to the beam was a joke. How hard would it of been to sneak a small squad past the destroyer to get to the beam? The destroyer was easily distracted from the small arms fire by the folks firing at it in the cutscene. Doing  that would give Shepard and squad enough time to get to the beam. I guess that sounds too easy. But that can't happen. BioWare only wanted Anderson and Shepard to get up the beam. Ok. Just have Anderson and Shepard go up while the squad stays behind.  A cutscene shows them getting on a shuttle that takes them back to the Normandy.

 

It was a good 200 yards if not more across open field to get to the beam. Even if a small team was able to avoid the mass of Reaper forces. The second they step out of the cover of the rubble they would be see by everything in the area. Reapers have already shown their ability to air drop drop troops into battle while they are already engaging the fleets of the galaxy both on Palivan and Thessia. One husk sees you and suddenly you would be facing armies of Brutes, Canibals, Husks and Marauders caught in an open area with little cover.

[themikefest]

Excuses, excuses.

[Iakus]

It was a good 200 yards if not more across open field to get to the beam. Even if a small team was able to avoid the mass of Reaper forces. The second they step out of the cover of the rubble they would be see by everything in the area. Reapers have already shown their ability to air drop drop troops into battle while they are already engaging the fleets of the galaxy both on Palivan and Thessia. One husk sees you and suddenly you would be facing armies of Brutes, Canibals, Husks and Marauders caught in an open area with little cover.

So instead we adopt a plan straight out of WWI

 

And was about as effective now as it was then.

[gothpunkboy89]

So instead we adopt a plan straight out of WWI

 

And was about as effective now as it was then.

 

There was really no other alternative. They lacked the ground forces to attack from all direction. So they picked a corridor and threw all they had at it. If they got a few dozen troops into the beam they would be able to handle anything inside. Work their way around to an area they can open the arms and let the crucible attach. Were it would in theory for them fire shortly after attaching.

[Iakus]

There was really no other alternative. They lacked the ground forces to attack from all direction. So they picked a corridor and threw all they had at it. If they got a few dozen troops into the beam they would be able to handle anything inside. Work their way around to an area they can open the arms and let the crucible attach. Were it would in theory for them fire shortly after attaching.

How do they know that?

 

How do they know where the beam led?  The Citadel had never been fully explored.  They could have ended up in some strange remote location.  Or at the far end of one of the ward arms and miles of hostile terrain to cross.  Or even some airless or otherwise hostile environment.

 

How do they know there aren't millions of husks waiting for them?  Or thousands of indoctrinated C-Sec officers?  Or heck maybe the Keepers are now weaponized.

 

How did they know the beam wouldn't just be shut off as they approached it?

[themikefest]

So instead we adopt a plan straight out of WWI

 

And was about as effective now as it was then.

Yeah it was

 

Here's a thread I created a year ago what I would have Priority Earth mission.

[gothpunkboy89]

How do they know that?

 

How do they know where the beam led?  The Citadel had never been fully explored.  They could have ended up in some strange remote location.  Or at the far end of one of the ward arms and miles of hostile terrain to cross.  Or even some airless or otherwise hostile environment.

 

How do they know there aren't millions of husks waiting for them?  Or thousands of indoctrinated C-Sec officers?  Or heck maybe the Keepers are now weaponized.

 

How did they know the beam wouldn't just be shut off as they approached it?

 

They didn't know any of that. But they attacked because it was the only option presented to them.

 

Your plan of attack would be.....?

 

I see a lot of complaining but no alternative ideas. The entire logic behind the Crucible from day 1 is a gamble based on information we don't know will work or not. But it is the only option because the other alternative is a slow destruction and harvest by the Reapers.

[themikefest]

How do they know that?

 

How do they know where the beam led?  The Citadel had never been fully explored.  They could have ended up in some strange remote location.  Or at the far end of one of the ward arms and miles of hostile terrain to cross.  Or even some airless or otherwise hostile environment.

 

How do they know there aren't millions of husks waiting for them?  Or thousands of indoctrinated C-Sec officers?  Or heck maybe the Keepers are now weaponized.

 

How did they know the beam wouldn't just be shut off as they approached it?

The one thing I'm surprised about is that TIM was up there by himself. I would've expected encountering some Cerberus soldiers.

[Iakus]

They didn't know any of that. But they attacked because it was the only option presented to them.

 

Your plan of attack would be.....?

 

I see a lot of complaining but no alternative ideas. The entire logic behind the Crucible from day 1 is a gamble based on information we don't know will work or not. But it is the only option because the other alternative is a slow destruction and harvest by the Reapers.

Air support.  Cains.  Fly a gunship into the beam from above.  Strike from several angles.  Feint and strike again once Harbinger leaves.  

 

What this plan was amounted to trying to fight off a lion by dousing yourself in barbecue sauce.

[themikefest]

What this plan was amounted to trying to fight off a lion by dousing yourself in barbecue sauce.

That's one way to describe it. I gave you like for it

[Dantriges]

Weren´t there some subway lines close to the beam location? IIRC some people here, who are from London mentioned something like that.

[themikefest]

Weren´t there some subway lines close to the beam location? IIRC some people here, who are from London mentioned something like that.

Von Uber would be the one who would know the area the best. He has made a few posts about the area. I don't believe he's mentioned anything about the subway

 

The subway lines was mentioned in a post in the thread I created from the link I provided in my post from above.

[MrFob]

I have to admit, I find you guys a bit silly here. We are given just the tiniest fraction of knowladge about the situation in London that leads to the battle and from that limited perspective you armchair generals come up with better plans. More than that, we have people in command like Anderson, Hackett, etc. who are established by the story as highly trained military leaders.

All your alternative plans make a whole lot of assumptions that we have no information about:

- Attack from another direction: Assumes these other directions were not blocked by even worse obstacles like more destroyers (we see those during the final cutscene), reapers, ground troops etc.

- Attack through the subway: Assumes there are tunnels (even if there are some today, this is 170 years in the future), that these tunnels are still open after months of reaper occupation and that there are less enemies there than above.

- Attack from the air: Assumes that the reapers don't have complete air superiority around the beam at the time the plan starts. They already bring people with shuttles to the FOB, I think it's fair to assume  that this was the farthest they can go at least at the time (later the situation might change when there are gunships approaching harbinger but I will remind you that those are also shot down and who knows what they had to sacrifice to get even those few that far).

- Strike from several angles or feint: This kind of tactic usually works when there is a limited number of enemy troops and the enemy has to prioritize. There is every indication that this is not the case.

 

I mean, I agree, it could have been told better, in a way that established that this was crappy but the best option and sure, we have to make a coupe of assumptions also to make the plan sensible but if we have to make assumptions either way, I choose those that help my suspension of disbelief.

 

The only glaring problem I do have with the Alliance plan is that apparently Anderson thinks that Shepard is the best candidate to make a difference and it's therefore imperative to get him to the citadel. Then he sends him "right through the middle where resistance is thickest". Even if he means only the resistance in the area relevant to the attack (which might still be much less than anywhere else in London), it would make sense to send his preferred infiltration team through the area of the battle where resistance is lightest (like Cpt. Kirrahee did with team Shadow on Virmire). That one line is the only obvious and clear nonsense that I can see.

 

 

But overall, I have more of a problem with the tactics of the reapers than with the tactics of the Alliance:

- Why oh why don't they just shut down the beam?!? I have to assume that they cannot just shut it down easily for some reason.

- If they can't shut it down, why do they leave it unguarded even for the tiniest fraction of a second? The entire battle shows how glaringly overpowering the reaper's side is in this battle. They have one single Achilles heel, the beam and they don't even spare one reaper to guard it 24/7.

 

So I don't know why everyone is criticizing our guys when the only thing that is shown for sure is that the reapers had every resource to prevent their own worst case scenario.

 

P.S.: I am not taking the EC's Normandy landing in front of the beam into account since this was of course the most glaring stupidity that I ahve ever seen in a revision.