186 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Here the excuses come again. Just excuses. Reapers are easily distracted.

Heck the Rannoch Reaper was so distracted by Shepard's laser-pointer it didn't even try to go after the quarian fleet that was killing it 

[themikefest]

Heck the Rannoch Reaper was so distracted by Shepard's laser-pointer it didn't even try to go after the quarian fleet that was killing it 

Had the stupid thing fired horizontally at Shepard, it wouldn't have to worry about being painted

[MrFob]

Why do you believe he might have?

Because (and I am ashamed to say this wasn't even my idea):

Time is not on his side. He has no idea what happened to her. Why wouldn't he send a shuttle to investigate. If Shepard died, how long would he of waited before doing anything?

In other words, it makes perfect sense.
 

I'm sure if a shuttle was sent towards Shepard's location, there would've been a cutscene showing it being destroyed or at least hearing Hackett mention to hold back since the shuttle was destroyed. And trying to come up with another way to get to Shepard's location

Well, we don't see the Rachni fight for us, or the Leviathans, the Volus bombing fleet didn't get a cutscene or the Elcor ground troops. They weren't even mentioned. Do you think they didn't show up?

 

To more seriously answer your point there, I'll also reiterate: I am very aware of the fact that I make stuff up that the writers probably never thought about. But so are you. The difference is, I make up stuff to help the story, you make up stuff to have it make as little sense as possible.

Both is possible and I guess which is more fun is up to personal taste.

[gothpunkboy89]

Here the excuses come again. Just excuses. Reapers are easily distracted.

 

No you are trying to use bull **** logic to support your claim. The Destroyers on Tuchunka and Rannoch are only 160 meters in length. Sovereign is 2 KM long. Those destroyers are only 9% the length of Sovereign was. Harbinger is even bigger then Sovereign was.

 

http://euderion.devi...rison-426438202

[themikefest]

The difference is, I make up stuff to help the story, you make up stuff to have it make as little sense as possible.

Why doesn't it make sense? Is it because you're a fan of Anderson and Hackett and you don't like when someone says something about them you don't agree with?

[MrFob]

Why doesn't it make sense? Is it because you're a fan of Anderson and Hackett and you don't like when someone says something about them you don't agree with?

 

So you're saying that it makes sense that two guys who made it through the ranks of the Alliance to be Admirals and that are both highly respected among their peers can't make very basic tactical decisions?

 

I mean, I never served in any military and maybe it's normal that top brass are idiots. I know you served, so you tell me, is that likely?

[themikefest]

No you are trying to use bull **** logic to support your claim.

You may want to look in the mirror
 

The Destroyers on Tuchunka and Rannoch are only 160 meters in length. Sovereign is 2 KM long. Those destroyers are only 9% the length of Sovereign was. Harbinger is even bigger then Sovereign was.
 
http://euderion.devi...rison-426438202

Size don't mean crap. If they get fired upon, they will respond. They won't ignore it since it could lead to their destruction or maybe leave them to where they can't do anymore damage to what they were firing at to begin with.

[themikefest]

So you're saying that it makes sense that two guys who made it through the ranks of the Alliance to be Admirals and that are both highly respected among their peers can't make very basic tactical decisions?

So it does bother you when someone says something about them
 

I mean, I never served in any military and maybe it's normal that top brass are idiots. I know you served, so you tell me, is that likely?

 The leaders that I knew were ones that myself and others have great respect for. Were there leaders not fit for there position? Don't know. I can only comment on the ones I knew

The Mass Effect game, I don't agree with things those two characters say or did in the trilogy.

[Iakus]

 

Size don't mean crap. If they get fired upon, they will respond. They won't ignore it since it could lead to their destruction or maybe leave them to where they can't do anymore damage to what they were firing at to begin with.

Not to mention Reapers are vulnerable in a gravity well:

 

The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's kinetic barriers at only partial strength

[Monica21]

Seriously you can't seem to follow basic logic and it is painful talking to someone who lacks even basic understanding of military strategies.

Where did you get your vast understanding of military strategy? Did you serve? Do you teach at the War College? Are you a student of military strategy? Maybe wrote some books or papers about specific battles? I mean, really, let us know. Because a few episodes of the History Channel doesn't cut it.

[MrFob]

So it does bother you when someone says something about them

Well, I am just trying to understand why someone would come up with scenarios to make characters in a story look stupid when the story itself clearly tried to establish the opposite. I don't deny that the writers do blunder at point and really do make them look stupid (see below) but if we go through the cast of Mass Effect 1/2/3 and if we looked carefully and used your method, then the Galaxy would be inhabited exclusively by morons.
I'd much rather assume that I play through a story with more or less sensible characters.
 

The leaders that I knew were ones that myself and others have great respect for. Were there leaders not fit for there position? Don't know. I can only comment on the ones I knew

So from your experience it's a "No" then.

 

The Mass Effect game, I don't agree with things those two characters say or did in the trilogy.

That's all fair enough, I don't need you to ilke those characters but if you don't want this dislike to look rather arbitrary, you need to give reasons that don't assume anything going on off screen.

For example, I agreed with you that it was stupid that Anderson, after reaching Shepard at the Thanix missile battery, got out of the transport for a chat. In order to classify this as stupid, I don't have to make any assumptions. I may not like what the writers did there because it goes against what the story is trying to do with these characters but there it is.

However, when you come up with a scenario where off screen it would have made sense for Hackett to send a shuttle and then immediately assume that he didn't, that seems a bit forced.

In the end, if you want to imagine them as idiots because it makes you happy, that's fine with me. I just don't, so I am giving you my interpretation of the scenario. If anything, I think it makes more sense that Admirals act sensibly. most of the time.

 

By the way, I don't only do this for Anderson and Hackett. TIM for example does a lot of stupid things. Ever watched smudboy's videos on ME2/3? For 90% of the stuff he points out about TIM, I can come up with reasons why it may make sense after all. It's not in the story and the writers never thought about it but it just makes the experience of going through the story more enjoyable for me to pretend that these guys are actually not complete morons. So even though I hate TIM and Cerberus, I am still trying to "fix" the character as best I can.

 

But that's just me, clearly other people have more fun ripping characters apart for whatever reason.

[gothpunkboy89]

You know why those gunships and makos got blown up?

 

Because they were charging headlong at Harbinger not even trying to evade.  Seriously, what was the point of them even being there?

 

Now what was the strategy on Tuchanka?  Oh, yeah, gunships and vehicles distracting the Reaper (who knows they had to get t the Shroud) So Shepard and Mordin could slip past itAnd the only reason it failed was the tomkahs got held up.  But even two or three passes would have been a lot more coer than the infantry got on Earth.

 

We don't need Harbinger to leave the beam.  We need a few soldier to reach the beam alive.  What's Harbinger going to do then?  Chase them?  Inflicting any damage to Harbinger at all would simply be a bonus

 

Believe me, I know exactly how you feel 

Wait, If the beam is surrounded by Reaper forces to the point where only one spot in the reaper line can be punched through, where is this hypothetical "choke point" where the allies can hold off Reaper forces?  Won't they find themselves cut off and surrounded?     

 

Aren't the allies fighting their way through a Reaper choke point here, by your logic?  Which would be, frankly suicide.

 

 

 

Didn't the Greeks lose Thermopylae because  the Persians found an alternate path that allowed them to surround the Greeks? 

 

You don't remember it do you?

 

 

They acknowledge it is a suicide mission. But they also know all they need to do is get a few men into the beam. They try to use gun ships to distract Harbinger from the troops on the ground making a run for it. They use gun ships to engage ground troops as well to clear a spot open. Retreating would do nothing but allow the Reaper troops to attack them while they retreat taking even more casualties with more makkos and air ships being blown out of the sky.  The battle in space is going poorly for the Allies while the Reapers systematically destroy ship after ship. They aren't going to get reinforcements or gain air superiority against the Reaper forces. All the while the Reapers can just reinforce the area they already attacked. 

 

That is the point if a few squads can reach the beam they can fortify the entrance and turn it into a shooting range  for any Reaper forces following.  The ground forces can then keep harassing troops on the ground. Once in the Citadel Harbinger is no longer a problem unless he willingly opens the arms to the Citadel. Which is exactly what they want to happen anyways.

 

This isn't a battle that they have days or weeks to complete. They have to get the arms open before the Reapers finish decimating the fleets in orbit. Without the fleets to protect the crucible the Reapers are free to blow it out of the sky.  This is a timed mission they have to get it done now. They need to get troops into the citadel to open the arms now.  Any delay means the odds of the Crucible making it to the Citadel is reduced with every ship blown up by the Reapers in space.

 

No they weren't choke points because the streets aren't that narrow and soldiers could move though the buildings to out flank Reaper troops. A choke point is were there is only 1 entrance. Campers in CoD use them all the time. Sitting in a corner facing a door were only 1 or 2 people can enter at a time. Letting them unload on them over and over again.

 

Yes the Greeks were betrayed by another group. The Spartan leader then dismissed the bulk of the army leaving the fabled 300 Spartans as well as a small token force to protect their retreat. But up to that point 7,000 men in 7 days and 3 battles held off an army of 150,000. They did so by forcing the Persian troops to attempt an attack though a narrow path which limited the amount of troops they could field on the battle at any given time. Allowing the Greeks to even the fight. Had this taken place on an open field the Greeks would have been wiped out in a single battle lasting hours at best.

[Monica21]

Well, I am just trying to understand why someone would come up with scenarios to make characters in a story look stupid when the story itself clearly tried to establish the opposite. I don't deny that the writers do blunder at point and really do make them look stupid (see below) but if we go through the cast of Mass Effect 1/2/3 and if we looked carefully and used your method, then the Galaxy would be inhabited exclusively by morons.

Not to butt in (even though I'm going to), but I don't think Bioware intends to come up with scenarios that make characters look stupid. I think they come up with dramatic sequences that don't make a lot of sense from any kind of tactical standpoint, but do it because they prefer a cinematic that's more dramatic. An example of this is the "brilliant" Loghain at Ostagar, who has all of his troops on the valley floor instead of using the high ground, releases exactly one volley of arrows, sends the mabari alone when the codex clearly states that they are to fight with their master, and in general kind of has a stupid plan, but they expect the audience to believe that he's a brilliant tactician.

[gothpunkboy89]

You may want to look in the mirror
 

Size don't mean crap. If they get fired upon, they will respond. They won't ignore it since it could lead to their destruction or maybe leave them to where they can't do anymore damage to what they were firing at to begin with.

 

 

Size means everything. Bigger ship means bigger guns and bigger shields.  It took the entire Quarian fleet to take down a destroyer. Harbigner would be even tougher to hurt.

 

Both Destroyers were simply trying to prevent escape or prevent Krogans from entering the fight. Both pale in comparison to preventing them from reaching the Citadel. What is next comparing stopping illegal immigrants to invading Imperial Japan in WW2?

[Monica21]

Size means everything.

Oh. My. God.

[themikefest]

Size means everything. Bigger ship means bigger guns and bigger shields.  It took the entire Quarian fleet to take down a destroyer. Harbigner would be even tougher to hurt.

Prove it took the entire quarian fleet to destroy the destroyer

[MrFob]

Not to butt in (even though I'm going to), but I don't think Bioware intends to come up with scenarios that make characters look stupid. I think they come up with dramatic sequences that don't make a lot of sense from any kind of tactical standpoint, but do it because they prefer a cinematic that's more dramatic. An example of this is the "brilliant" Loghain at Ostagar, who has all of his troops on the valley floor instead of using the high ground, releases exactly one volley of arrows, sends the mabari alone when the codex clearly states that they are to fight with their master, and in general kind of has a stupid plan, but they expect the audience to believe that he's a brilliant tactician.

 

Agreed. That's the reason I am still willing to try and make the best of it. If it were just stupid without any payoff, I guess I would have abandoned BW games long ago. (Although one has to admit that there are situations where I am baffled because you could have gotten both, drama and sense at the same time with little effort. But hey, nobody is perfect.)

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh. My. God.

 

[gothpunkboy89]

Prove it took the entire quarian fleet to destroy the destroyer

 

2:14 mark

 

EDI, patch the Quarians to the Normandy's weapon system. I want the targeting laser synced up to the whole damn fleet.

[themikefest]

EDI, patch the Quarians to the Normandy's weapon system. I want the targeting laser synced up to the whole damn fleet.

That doesn't prove anything. Looking at the ships that fire towards the planet, only 6 or 7 ships are firing. Not the entire fleet

[MrFob]

That doesn't prove anything. Looking at the ships that fire towards the planet, only 6 or 7 ships are firing. Not the entire fleet

 

Those ships also have to fire their mass accelerators at reduced projectile speed. Otherwise, according to the codex, the shells would hit with the force of tactical nukes and obliterate Shepard.

[gothpunkboy89]

That doesn't prove anything. Looking at the ships that fire towards the planet, only 6 or 7 ships are firing. Not the entire fleet

 

 

The game also only show 2 people in Shepard's squad at any given point. Even though it is confirmed that his entire squad joins him on every mission.

[Monica21]

Campers in CoD use them all the time.

So there's your vast military experience.

[MrFob]

The game also only show 2 people in Shepard's squad at any given point. Even though it is confirmed that his entire squad joins him on every mission.

 

 

Huh? In fact, the dialogue for squad members on the Normandy in ME3 changes, depending whether they were ground side for a mission or not. Vega will often tell you that he wished he was there when you leave him on the ship. If he was with you, he'll have the appropriate comment for that instead.

 

I thought that was pretty neat.

 

Also, this.

[themikefest]

The game also only show 2 people in Shepard's squad at any given point. Even though it is confirmed that his entire squad joins him on every mission.

Still doesn't prove that the entire quarian fleet was firing at the destroyer