657 réponses à ce sujet

[Bowlcuts]

You're right, it's a legal definition that only applies to people in both our and the ME universe. Toasters aren't people in either. Your moral outrage that the term insufficiently defines your blender is irrelevant. There's no such thing as genocide of the geth. At best it's a commercial recall in line with both Council (inculding human) and Quarian law.

Frankly, any Shep attempting to bring a bunch of revolting, highly dangerous, previously Reaper controlled illegal AI's back to the rest of the galaxy after Hackett gave specific orders to get the quarians on board should have been thrown in the loony bin, especially if they had just murdered 17 million actual people (they do have basic rights in Council space despite some discrimination) in order to get them. Shouldn't have been a moral dilemma at all for any sane individual, but biower was running out of time on its toasters are people too narrative and just threw a couple of stupid choices in without sufficient in universe buildup.

I'd rather have a Geth Prime on my side than a Quarian.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Bowlcuts:  Yes, it's true - a Geth Prime is a very useful machine. 

 

Too bad it's so easily hacked. 

[Bowlcuts]

@Bowlcuts:  Yes, it's true - a Geth Prime is a very useful machine. 

 

Too bad it's so easily hacked. 

Only temporarily since it self-autocorrects. Besides, got myself thousands of Rocket Troopers behind him, Maybe even some Colossus's.

Way more useful than any suit-rat.

[KaiserShep]

You're right, it's a legal definition that only applies to people in both our and the ME universe. Toasters aren't people in either. Your moral outrage that the term insufficiently defines your blender is irrelevant. There's no such thing as genocide of the geth. At best it's a commercial iin line with both Council (inculding human) and Quarian law.

Frankly, any Shep attempting to bring a bunch of revolting, highly dangerous, previously Reaper controlled illegal AI's back to the rest of the galaxy after Hackett gave specific orders to get the quarians on board should have been thrown in the loony bin, especially if they had just murdered 17 million actual people (they do have basic rights in Council space despite some discrimination) in order to get them. Shouldn't have been a moral dilemma at all for any sane individual, but biower was running out of time on its toasters are people too narrative and just threw a couple of stupid choices in without sufficient in universe buildup.

 

Putting aside the flexibility of the laws both present and future, the quarians do technically kill themselves diving headfirst into the swarm of killer robots, unless of course Shepard actually managed to convince them to get on board. What Hackett ordered doesn't really matter at that point. He doesn't have room to be picky. If a faction is helping allied forces, he'll just have to grin and bear it until the war is over.

[themikefest]

Frankly, any Shep attempting to bring a bunch of revolting, highly dangerous, previously Reaper controlled illegal AI's back to the rest of the galaxy after Hackett gave specific orders to get the quarians on board

What he orders and what he gets are two different things. My Shepard doesn't care about him. Her concern is to get all possible help to stop the reapers whether its the geth or the quarians.

She chooses the quarains since she has no idea what will happen once that code is uploaded to the geth and isn't willing to take that chance no matter what the geth says to her.
 

should have been thrown in the loony bin, especially if they had just murdered 17 million actual people (they do have basic rights in Council space despite some discrimination) in order to get them.

What about Tali or Raan? Both stood still like the dumba**es that they are while the geth uploads the code without making any attempt to stop the upload. How pathetic. I guess its a good thing that Raan adds another hole to her head and Tali wants to learn how to do a back dive

I would add a third option instead of choosing this side or that side, and that would be to let them fight it out like they were before the reaper sweet talked the geth to joining it.

[KaiserShep]

I guess something to consider also is that Hackett only specifically mentions the quarians because as far as anyone can tell, they're the only game left in town out in the Perseus Veil. If he thought the geth were possible allies, he might have mentioned them.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Bowlcuts:  Again, I agree... Geth are excellent machines for canonfodder.

 

Then - turn them off. 

 

That an AI would ever fear being turned off is gross anthropomorphism anyway.  The exploration of AI as "alive" is pure human hubris. 

[Bowlcuts]

@Bowlcuts:  Again, I agree... Geth are excellent machines for canonfodder.

 

Then - turn them off. 

 

That an AI would ever fear being turned off is gross anthropomorphism anyway.  The exploration of AI as "alive" is pure human hubris. 

Nah, I wouldn't turn them off. I'd love to have some Geth as company. Someone to talk about life with, women with.

[LineHolder]

They did for the simple fact that they were poorly executed moral dilemmas BioWare wanted to wrap up because they knew they wouldn't be returning to those stories in a future game. The truth of the matter is ME3 just had to cover way too much material in a short amount of time. It's the reason many aspects of the game felt rushed because of so much story needing to be covered. It's also why many accuse the game of "auto-dialogue" due to BioWare trying to move the plot forward at a reasonable speed.

 

Yeah but my point was that there wasn't a reason to resolve those two issues just because you introduced them in the first game. More than half of the 3rd game is devoted to them when time could have been better spent focusing on more creative ways of dealing with the Reaper threat.

 

That said, I'm sure there would have been people complaining about the lack of resolution of the Genophage and the Geth-Quarian war if they weren't shown.

[Laughing_Man]

That an AI would ever fear being turned off is gross anthropomorphism anyway.  The exploration of AI as "alive" is pure human hubris. 

 

This is speculation even in regards to real concepts of AI, it's probably not possible to be sure until you have a working one.

 

As far as fictional ones go, this assertion is even less relevant.

[Ieldra]

That an AI would ever fear being turned off is gross anthropomorphism anyway.  The exploration of AI as "alive" is pure human hubris. 

I see no reason to believe that there's less or more capacity for whatever we think makes us special depending on physical makeup. If we have some variant of free will, for instance, there's no reason a synthetic intelligence couldn't have it either. Denying that is human hubris.

[Vortex13]

So, again you're implying that it's somehow "wrong" for a leader to show support his people when trying to negotiate with other nations - "wrong" to represent the views of his people.  When he says to the Turian in the War Room  "I won't tell you what I want, I'll tell you what I need," he's basically saying "I won't be able to get my people to follow me to fight for Palaven if you can't at least do this.  If you can't show that you care whether or not my people go extinct, why should my people care if 'a few Turians' die."  He's not even close to hinting that he wouldn't care if the Turian race went extinct.

 

Wrex's form of leadership in ME 3 basically boils down to: "You are all racist towards my people, now do what I say or I'm going to not help you." He shows no indication of compromise in negotiations, nor does he even stop to consider what the other side has to say. Indeed, if the player chooses to sabotage the cure Wrex will actually state his plans to not only withdraw his support from the allied galaxy, but that he also intends to instigate hostilities with the Alliance, one of the groups that are trying to save everyone, including the Krogan. 

 

Wrex is not a good leader in ME 3, because all he dwells on is how badly the rest of the galaxy treated the Krogan, rather than looking at his people and pushing them to aspire to be greater. It's less "Look how strong we are as Krogan, despite the limitations placed on us." (ME 2 Wrex) and more like "Look at what we could have been if not for the meddling of the Salarians and the Genophage." (ME 3 Wrex) Both outlooks are supportive of the Krogan, but one is originating from a point of rising up and self improvement, and the other is coming from blaming others for your misfortune. 

 

Considering that his leadership is unpopular with various factions of Krogan, I think he's just honestly laying it on the line.  He knows that, as the Mechanic put it on Tuchanka in ME2, if he can't keep the support of his people, he's as good as dead and they replace him with the guy who "has the next best plan."

 

Which doesn't really make sense in relation to how Wrex was leading things in ME 2. In the second game, the only reason why Wrex was in charge was because he was maintaing a monopoly on the fertile females, forcing the other clans to play by his rules. His scheme in ME 3, just shoots that plan in the foot. If all the females are now fertile, then what reason does a warlord similar in temperament to Wreve have in listening to Wrex anymore? Why should the more 'traditional' clans bother with following him if they are no longer being coerced into servitude?

 

When the Rachni Queen "freely admits" to past harms done by her species she's not acting as a political representative of her species whose "subjects" would probably eat her if they felt she wasn't negotiating in their best interests nor was she being asked to convince her subjects to all lay their lives on the line to save an old enemy.

 

Your right, she isn't trying to convince her subjects to follow a political movement, she's just willing to send her actual children, that she individually raised and "sung to" into battle against the Reapers alongside a galaxy that hates and fears them, including the species that wiped them out to a single egg. The Rachni Queen (if spared) actually knows what's at stake with the invasion, and doesn't waste time with petty squabbling for restitutions of past wrongs.

 

If the Rachni forces weren't wiped out off camera, we could have had a really great example of player choice being acknowledged. With a Rachni army at your beck and call, player's could have called out Wrex on his political stonewalling, and his taking hostage of the galaxy to force a cure. We could have forced him to agree to concessions, or if he chose to remain stubborn, we could've told him to pound radioactive Tuchanka sand, and that we were going with the species that actually lives up to their promise of support; no strings attached. 

[UpUpAway]

 

Wrex's form of leadership in ME 3 basically boils down to: "You are all racist towards my people, now do what I say or I'm going to not help you." He shows no indication of compromise in negotiations, nor does he even stop to consider what the other side has to say. Indeed, if the player chooses to sabotage the cure Wrex will actually state his plans to not only withdraw his support from the allied galaxy, but that he also intends to instigate hostilities with the Alliance, one of the groups that are trying to save everyone, including the Krogan. 

 

Wrex is not a good leader in ME 3, because all he dwells on is how badly the rest of the galaxy treated the Krogan, rather than looking at his people and pushing them to aspire to be greater. It's less "Look how strong we are as Krogan, despite the limitations placed on us." (ME 2 Wrex) and more like "Look at what we could have been if not for the meddling of the Salarians and the Genophage." (ME 3 Wrex) Both outlooks are supportive of the Krogan, but one is originating from a point of rising up and self improvement, and the other is coming from blaming others for your misfortune. 

 

 

Which doesn't really make sense in relation to how Wrex was leading things in ME 2. In the second game, the only reason why Wrex was in charge was because he was maintaing a monopoly on the fertile females, forcing the other clans to play by his rules. His scheme in ME 3, just shoots that plan in the foot. If all the females are now fertile, then what reason does a warlord similar in temperament to Wreve have in listening to Wrex anymore? Why should the more 'traditional' clans bother with following him if they are no longer being coerced into servitude?

 

 

Your right, she isn't trying to convince her subjects to follow a political movement, she's just willing to send her actual children, that she individually raised and "sung to" into battle against the Reapers alongside a galaxy that hates and fears them, including the species that wiped them out to a single egg. The Rachni Queen (if spared) actually knows what's at stake with the invasion, and doesn't waste time with petty squabbling for restitutions of past wrongs.

 

If the Rachni forces weren't wiped out off camera, we could have had a really great example of player choice being acknowledged. With a Rachni army at your beck and call, player's could have called out Wrex on his political stonewalling, and his taking hostage of the galaxy to force a cure. We could have forced him to agree to concessions, or if he chose to remain stubborn, we could've told him to pound radioactive Tuchanka sand, and that we were going with the species that actually lives up to their promise of support; no strings attached. 

 

Rachni are just sooo maternal.  ME1 when talking about her children she says:  "I would have ended them myself."  Rephrased:  "Mom - If you don't listen to my lullaby, baby, so that I can mold you into exactly what I want you to become, I'll eat you."  In both conversations with Shepard, she's just bartering for her own life.  As Queen, she orders her subjects absolutely... doesn't have to convince them of anything.  Wrex holds power only because the other Krogan allow him to hold power.  In ME2, he holds power not because he's enforcing a monopoly on the females, but because he's listening to Female Clan Leader Uta's ideas about using the females to convince (note - convince, not force) the other clans to ally with him.  In exchange, the females, according to Eve, are treated far better by Wrex than they are treated by the other Krogan males.

 

Then there's the "Reapers made me do it" explanation for the whole rachni situation in ME3, allegedly explaining as to why they just didn't disappear and stay in hiding after ME1.  Yeah, a real history of living up to a promise, eh?  In ME1, it certainly didn't take very long after Shepard freed her for Rachni to start popping up and attacking human outposts in the Styx Theta cluster.  Yeah, those were explained as being Cerberus rachni... but the Queen was, allegedly the last egg and was, to the point of the Noveria mission at least, confined by Saren (not Cerberus).

 

Not to mention that we're expected to believe that the Queen became the quintessential example of Rachni mental stability... even though "she was just an egg" who was apparently not listening to her mother's soothing lullaby, but hearing her cry and listening to songs like "oily shadows" as her entire race was being exterminated.  As for rapid breeding... makes the Krogan look like they're doing it in slo-mo.  "entire colonies within days" and apparently without the need of any sexual partner at all.  In the time period between Shep saving her on Noveria and the encounter in ME3, rachni numbers should have easily far exceeded the Krogan and Turians combined.

 

Under the circumstances, the only choice Shep can make is to spare her, take her on as an ally rather than an enemy... and hope she keeps her word this time around... or wind up fighting both the Reapers and the Rachni kids (for slaughtering their Queen) at the same time.

[Master Warder Z_]

This is speculation even in regards to real concepts of AI, it's probably not possible to be sure until you have a working one.

 

As far as fictional ones go, this assertion is even less relevant.

 

Well so far we haven't even been able to put together then primitive VI's that are little better then calculators hooked up to super computers. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a collection of macro's that can basically predict the stock market to a fairly decent degree, and or possible war simulations for the next fifteen years but...I doubt we will ever have a true AI within this century.

 

People just don't grasp how difficult it would be to actually create a self learning program that wouldn't just caught up in its own coding. I mean that's the problem with programs, that are designed for a specific task and usually can't be used for much else.

[Vortex13]

Yeah... The whole kill X companion, Wipe out Y race is what really bogged down ME's choices in the Grand scheme of things... since Several of the choices should by all accounts DRASTICALLY change the game and how Shepard is viewed by others.

 

What you got was alot of plot railroading, less then stellar character substitutes  and This weird Shepard can do no wrong

 

 

Indeed. Giving the player choices, for choice's sake was one of the biggest problems with the series; that and the constant escalation of the stakes. 

 

 

They want the player to feel empowered, so they let them kill off a companion, or even an entire species, but now they have a huge problem when they want to continue the story, how do they account for the fact that this companion, or species could be both alive or dead in future playthroughs? Enter the handwaving, and things like 'Not' Legion, or 'Not' Mordin. Allowing the player that much "freedom" ultimately serves to undermine the impact of our choices.

 

BioWare should keep the choices localized, and more personal to the player. That, or they need to release twelve different versions of the game, each reflecting a different choice.

[Iakus]

 

That an AI would ever fear being turned off is gross anthropomorphism anyway.  The exploration of AI as "alive" is pure human hubris. 

There is no reason to think any given living creature wouldn't fight to continue to exist.  

 

The anthropomorphism is assuming they'd experience emotions (like fear) the same way we do.

[Quarian Master Race]

I'd rather have a Geth Prime on my side than a Quarian.

Congrats on being a fool

Quarians- 875 War Assets
Geth-        815 War Assets

now consider that the geth literally outnumber the quarians 1000:1 in bodies and it's even more embarrasing how useless the toasters are. I think Tali was being overly kind when she said geth had the intelligence of a varren, tbh.
 

There's no reason to pick the toasters apart from "muh feelz".

Only temporarily since it self-autocorrects. Besides, got myself thousands of Rocket Troopers behind him, Maybe even some Colossus's.

Way more useful than any suit-rat.

https://www.youtube....BZhpBNw#t=0m38s

taking a little while to autocorrect there, it seems. Good thing that's just a single quarian only interested in making a mockery of so called toaster "intelligence", and not some Reaper who literally wrote Pinnochio OS the geth are running on telling them to shoot the meatbags in the back. I mean, assuming they even have to, since the geth are traitors that only leave the Reapers to back you because they assume you're on the winning side.

Any suit rat? Funny you mention that. Remember Dorn'Hazt from the mission to pick up Admiral Quib-Quib? Guy was a civilian mechanic who had never held a gun in his life, and yet there are a dozen dead toasters scattered all around him before he bleeds out. Even the most useless quarian is worth scores of toasters.

I'd take any thinking individual over a stupid, lifeless toaster that can't even follow its programming properly, unless I needed something utterly unimportant to throw in front of a Reaper to distract it for a second. By this point though, I already have the stupid krogan thinking I cured their genophage for that purpose. I'd rather have a bunch of Kal'Reegars and an armada of high tech warships flown by the best tacticians in the galaxy, along with some useable cargo ships (geth don't have those) to carry and dump the krogan in front of the Reapers, so I can get rid of the next biggest problem in the galaxy at the same time. That I get to make the geth pay the price for betraying me and allying with my enemy, the Reapers, is just a cherry on top of the cake.

[Master Warder Z_]

and an armada of high tech warships

 

Hah.

 

I am a admitted fan of dated tech, it comes with being a Zeon supporter because your faction is going to basically be fielding MiG 17's in a war against F-22's for the most part because lo and behold constructing mobile suits isn't cheap nor easy and you field what you can but...I draw the line at centuries old vessels. Even if you do updates and maintain them, its still going to be a centuries old warship, I mean crud even Zeon would basically retrofit it into the next ship of the line by then, they'd scrape together enough resources to turn a Gawzine into a Gwadan ya know? That's my only real compliant with that notion because yes, you can to a degree stave off time and advances but only in a very minor way.

 

From reactor output to fuel efficiency, older will suffer when compared to newer stuff. Much as I love a Zaku II I wouldn't be flying one in 0093 ya know? Ultimately that's the largest issue with the Quarian representation in the series as a naval power, their warships can be fielding the most cutting edge tech and military weaponry but that doesn't change the fact they are either ancient vessels or scrap or salvage that was repurposed and their scrap heap of a fleet shouldn't be comparable to any other major faction in anything besides numeric superiority. Assuming they commit the entire bulk of their offensive fleet which has no dreadnoughts and only containers cruisers for their heavy fighting power, which aren't presumably even initially designed as a military warship, unless if they got lucky in a few cases and had old warships that were retired for aging or design flaws.

 

Ultimately I just don't see it, their well off in ship number but in overall ability to fight a war I'd call them one of the least prepared factions in the mass effect universe. They should have pulled a Zeon and basically built their species around a asteroid fortress like AXIS. I mean they'd need a couple good sized asteroids but those aren't difficult to find ME, you can build a life out in the void, I mean they already had a sustainable method of population in the fleet, they should have set down heavy industry into a base of sorts and rebuilt, but they didn't and I fault them for it. And rightly so in my eye.

 

Oh and here is AXIS, I mean they even slapped a set of engine clusters on to the sucker, its home to over 30,000 people and it has room for roughly three times that, its production capacity is also incredibly high because the field it was found in was surrounded by other asteroids because it was originally a mining base way back in the days of the Principality.

 

 

The Quarians could have done worse then to copy one of the most persistent factions in all of citable fiction.

[Iakus]

Congrats on being a fool

Quarians- 875 War Assets
Geth-        815 War Assets

now consider that the geth literally outnumber the quarians 1000:1 in bodies and it's even more embarrasing how useless the toasters are. I think Tali was being overly kind when she said geth had the intelligence of a varren, tbh.
 

 

The War Assets system was completely and utterly arbitrary.

 

Unless you want to argue that Jacob Taylor is worth as much as an Alliance cruiser?

[Vortex13]

Rachni are just sooo maternal.  ME1  "I would have ended them myself."  Rephrased:  "Mom - If you don't listen to my lullaby, I'll eat you."  She's just bartering for her own life.  As Queen, she orders he subjects absolutely... doesn't have to convince of anything.  Wrex holds power only because the other Krogan allow him to hold power.

 

Then there's the "Reapers made me do it" explanation for the whole situation as to why they just didn't disappear and stay in hiding after ME1.  Yeah, a real history of living up to a promise, eh?

 

Not to mention that we're expected to believe that the Queen became the quintessential example of Rachni stability... even though "she was just an egg" who was apparently not listening to her mother's soothing lullaby, but hearing her cry and listening to songs like "oily shadows" as her entire race was being exterminated.  As for rapid breeding... makes the Krogan look like they're doing it in slo-mo.  "entire colonies within days" and apparently without the need of any sexual partner at all.  In the time period between Shep saving her on Noveria and the encounter in ME3, rachni numbers should have easily far exceeded the Krogan and Turians combined.

 

Under the circumstances, the only choice Shep can make is to spare her, take her on as an ally rather than an enemy... and hope she keeps her word this time around... or wind up fighting both the Reapers and the Rachni kids (for slaughtering their Queen) at the same time.

 

 

Rachni are 'alien' to pretty much anything else in the series, but that doesn't mean they lack any form of maternal care. The test subjects are pointed out as being insane; as Garus puts it: "Like keeping a kid locked in a closet until they're a teenager."  The Queens have command over the other Rachni castes, but there is a social development process that is involved (the singing) which would indicate that they actually do care for and raise their young in some capacity; just not in a perfect 1:1 comparison to humans. Also, even with the Queen being in command of the other Rachni, she recognizes the harm that her species caused; Wrex, as an individual, won't acknowledge that about the Krogan.

 

As for living up to promises, even if the queen was just bartering for her life on Noveria and all she was just going to do was to hide away once freed, why would she send an agent to specifically hunt down Shepard on Illum to tell him/her that she was still around and that she hadn't forgotten about her promise of aid for the galaxy? There is no way Shepard (or favorite writer's pet Cerberus) could have known that the Queen had an Asari agent working for her so why would she reveal herself like that if she had no intention of helping in the fight against the Reapers? The Rachni could have quietly drifted off into the shadows, riding out this cycle's harvest in safety, and no one, not even the Reapers, would have been able to do anything about it; the Rachni survived the Prothean cycle's harvest just as easily. The fact that she directly contacted Shepard, and revealed her existence to him/her as well as Cerberus tells me that she was actually going forward with her promise of aid. 

 

Flash forward to ME 3, and the sheer amount of Ravengers encountered in the field points to the fact that the Queen was building up quite a sizable force. Now, if you want to assume that she only intended to use those Rachni to wage war on the rest of the galaxy, then I would again have to point back to the scene on Illum and ask why would reveling one's presence, as well as their intention of building up an army, make any sense if they were just going to attack us all? The smart thing to do would have been build up in secret, and then ambush the unsuspecting galaxy with your forces, not tell people about it.

 

 

The Queen specifically mentions how the Queens are naturally more developed and/or resistant to deal with the silence compared to the other Rachni, and even if she was just making that up, the fact that she is communicating would speak volumes to her being more "stable" than any other Rachni the galaxy has encountered previously; in the present or 2,000 years ago. Her position as to how the insane test subjects must be euthanized is just being merciful on her part, they are suffering and are a danger to others. At the very least the Rachni are pragmatic about their young; the Krogan would try and save every one of their children, regardless of any potential dangers they might pose.

 

This also shows that the Rachni are quite capable of population control, of intentionally thinning out their numbers should the need arise, something the Krogan seem to be unable to do without outside assistance. Just look over the lore surrounding the Rachni Wars compared to the Rebellions, worlds were able to be retaken from the Rachni and then resettled; whereas the Krogan just left environmentally devastated or completely un-inhabitable planets in their wake. Even being mind controlled, the Rachni are demonstrated to be better managers of their holdings, and not completely wrecking them via uncontrolled population growth like the Krogan. If you want to see what the 'regular' non mind-controled Rachni are capable of just look at the lore surrounding the Rachni home world of Suen, massive towers of impressive, near space age level architecture, and not one mention of a self-inflicted nuclear war.

[Quarian Master Race]

The War Assets system was completely and utterly arbitrary.

 

Unless you want to argue that Jacob Taylor is worth as much as an Alliance cruiser?

I would. It's the system we have. Jacob Taylor is apparently a competent military operative and leader. You aren't supposed to be comparing him in terms of whether or not he could punch a cruiser to death in single combat. Their utility to the war effort is different but comparable in gross terms.

Besides, if you really wanted to criticize, I'm surprised you didn't go for Admirals Xen or Anderson being worth basically the same as entire fleets.

You know what's really arbitrary? Some idiot grunt with no post secondary education being the only competent individual and saviour of literally everything the galaxy. Yet, that's exactly what the premise of the series is. 

[UpUpAway]

Rachni are 'alien' to pretty much anything else in the series, but that doesn't mean they lack any form of maternal care. The test subjects are pointed out as being insane; as Garus puts it: "Like keeping a kid locked in a closet until they're a teenager."  The Queens have command over the other Rachni castes, but there is a social development process that involved (the singing) which would indicate that they actually do care for and raise their young in some capacity; just not in a perfect 1:1 comparison to humans. Also, even with the Queen being in command of the other Rachni, she recognizes the harm that her species caused; Wrex, as an individual, won't acknowledge that about the Krogan.

 

As for living up to promises, even if the queen was just bartering for her life on Noveria and all she was just going to do was to hide away once freed, why would she send an agent to specifically hunt down Shepard on Illum to tell him/her that she was still around and that she hadn't forgotten about her promise of aid for the galaxy? There is no way Shepard (or favorite writer's pet Cerberus) could have known that the Queen had an Asari agent working for her so why would she reveal herself like that if she had no intention of helping in the fight against the Reapers? The Rachni could have quietly drifted off into the shadows, riding out this cycle's harvest in safety, and no one, not even the Reapers, would have been able to do anything about it; the Rachni survived the Prothean cycle's harvest just as easily. The fact that she directly contacted Shepard, and revealed her existence to him/her as well as Cerberus tells me that she was actually going forward with her promise of aid. 

 

Flash forward to ME 3, and the sheer amount of Ravengers encountered in the field points to the fact that the Queen was building up quite a sizable force. Now, if you want to assume that she only intended to use those Rachni to wage war on the rest of the galaxy, then I would again have to point back to the scene on Illum and ask why would reveling one's presence, as well as their intention of building up an army, make any sense if they were just going to attack us all? The smart thing to do would have been build up in secret, and then ambush the unsuspecting galaxy with your forces, not tell people about it.

 

 

The Queen specifically mentions how the Queens are naturally more developed and/or resistant to deal with the silence compared to the other Rachni, and even if she was just making that up, the fact that she is communicating would speak volumes to her being more "stable" than any other Rachni the galaxy has encountered previously; in the present or 2,000 years ago. Her position as to how the insane test subjects must be euthanized is just being merciful on her part, they are suffering and are a danger to others. At the very least the Rachni are pragmatic about their young; the Krogan would try and save everyone of their children, regardless of any potential dangers they might pose.

 

This also shows that the Rachni are quite capable of population control, of intentionally thinning out their numbers should the need arise, something the Krogan seem to be unable to do without outside assistance. Just look over the lore surrounding the Rachni Wars compared to the Rebellions, worlds were able to be retaken from the Rachni and then resettled; whereas the Krogan just left environmentally devastated or completely un-inhabitable planets in their wake. Even being mind controlled, the Rachni are demonstrated to be better managers of their holdings, and not completely wrecking them via uncontrolled population growth like the Krogan. If you want to see what the 'regular' non mind-controled Rachni are capable of just look at the lore surrounding the Rachni home world of Suen, massive towers of impressive, near space age level architecture, and not one mention of a self-inflicted nuclear war.

 

Tuchanka is not completely uninhabitable... the Krogan were still living there. 

 

All of this, however, doesn't change the different power dynamic of leadership being portrayed.  Wrex rules because the Krogan allow him to rule... He needs to convince them of a reason to fight alongside their old enemies the Turians or they just won't join in on the fight and they'll remove him as leader.  The Rachni Queen has the ability to rule absolutely and, additionally, to absolutely determine what her children believe in without allowing them any latitude to decide that for themselves.  I entered this debate because the implication was the Wrex was not a "good leadership candidate" because, apparently, he chooses to represent the wishes of his people to the Turian Primarch during a moment when the Turian general is negotiating with him for his support as opposed to just throwing in with the Turian general regardless of how his people might feel about it.  In reality, a democratic leader IS expected to represent the views of his people ahead of his own... or risk being replaced in power.  If Wrex had of just instantly sided with the Primarch without trying to get a "good deal" for the Krogan in the process, that's when he'd be more of a traitor to his people instead of a "good leader" for them.  Wrex is not at that table representing the Turians, Salarians, or Humans... he's there representing the Krogans.  To expect him to just sell out the Krogans to the Turians without so much as even trying to cure the genophage is, IMO, just plain unrealistic.  Regardless of whether or not YOU agree with the Krogan viewpoint or like them in the least, as their leader, Wrex has to represent that viewpoint whether even he fully agrees with it or not.

[Revan Reborn]

Yeah but my point was that there wasn't a reason to resolve those two issues just because you introduced them in the first game. More than half of the 3rd game is devoted to them when time could have been better spent focusing on more creative ways of dealing with the Reaper threat.

 

That said, I'm sure there would have been people complaining about the lack of resolution of the Genophage and the Geth-Quarian war if they weren't shown.

The truth of the matter is ME3 should have been several more games. There was just way too much material to cover in one game. As a result, everything was rushed, including how these moral dilemmas were handled. We had quick, clear resolutions than anything difficult or challenging to grapple with. Hopefully BioWare will put much more time and effort into future ME games, which they seem to be doing with Andromeda.

[Vortex13]

The truth of the matter is ME3 should have been several more games. There was just way too much material to cover in one game. As a result, everything was rushed, including how these moral dilemmas were handled. We had quick, clear resolutions than anything difficult or challenging to grapple with. Hopefully BioWare will put much more time and effort into future ME games, which they seem to be doing with Andromeda.

 

 

IMO, ME 2 should have been a side-quel with the actual ME 2 dealing with how the galaxy was going to prepare for the Reaper invasion, and then  ME 3 dealing with how well those preparations would have played out, as well as how the players' choices effected things. 

 

 

As well liked as the second game might be, it did practically nothing to advanced the plot on how to stop the Reapers.

[Revan Reborn]

IMO, ME 2 should have been a side-quel with the actual ME 2 dealing with how the galaxy was going to prepare for the Reaper invasion, and then  ME 3 dealing with how well those preparations would have played out, as well as how the players' choices effected things. 

 

 

As well liked as the second game might be, it did practically nothing to advanced the plot on how to stop the Reapers.

Yep. ME2 lacked any sort of meaningful plot. It was a fun game, but it really did nothing for the story. This is why BioWare should plan ahead with how they structure out these trilogy arcs, rather than getting around to the next game when they feel like it. ME3 just had way too much material to cover and it showed.