657 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Uh, not to rain on your parade or anything... being forbidden by law to operate heavy machinery means you do not have a right pretty much everyone else has. Or does something have to be a part of the constitution to be considered a right? I'd be very careful with your answer.

If we're going to be serious for a second, there's an important distinction between a "right" and a "privilege". A license isn't a right - it's a privilege. If someone is prohibited by law from getting a license, there could be a breach of a right. But the right is unrelated to the license. Beyond that the issue gets more complicated because not every society conceptualizes rights in the same way.

Many rights are not and needn't be enshrined in a constitution to be rights - that's just a means of entrenching them in their current form.

If the government passed a law that said "DaemionMoadrin is banned from operating heavy equipment" there could be a rights violation, but it would have nothing to do with some entitlement to operate heavy equipment. It would - depending on the concept of rights and the country - be a breach if both substantive and procedural rights to participate in civil society.

Anyway, licenses aren't rights.

[Seraphim24]

This has been "Semantics hour!" with Daemion and In Exile! Thank you for all attending! We have free popcorn chicken samplers in the back!

 

 

(Just trying to lighten!)

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm not invested enough in this discussion to write a counter point anyway. I was talking about things like child protection laws, not licenses... but meh. ^^

 

I'd rather talk about my "everyone in ME is stupid" post.

[Bowlcuts]

The Mass Effect trilogy in a gif.

 

Spoiler

 

Basically, everything could of been done in a completely different simplistic way and it would of worked.

[KaiserShep]

I'd rather talk about my "everyone in ME is stupid" post.

 

 

It's like the chapter of a Plinkett review:

 

Is everyone blind AND stupid? 

[Revan Reborn]

Them being large doesn't really make them that menacing. That just makes them more distant from the player's perspective. We only ever fight their human-sized monsters and occasionally dodge the blaster of a destroyer or two. Just look at Sovereign. It ended up being kind of a joke anyway, because of its own silly tactic to embody itself in a silly hopper and it got itself killed in the process. The rest of them could have bum rushed the Citadel, they would have crippled the galaxy fairly early on.

It's their numbers that add to their menace really, not their size.

Honestly, the mimics were more menacing than the reapers.

I disagree. Size is an effective stimulus to build a sense of fear and awe. If the reapers were incredibly tiny and the size of your finger, would they be menacing for you then? The fact that we also saw an actual reaper only occasionally built up the mysticism behind these sentient machines and how dangerous they actually were.

 

I fail to see how game mechanics BioWare created somehow undermines the reapers as a whole. BioWare wanted to defeat Sovereign and came up with a means that seemed practical for Shepard to win. Otherwise, Sovereign would have crippled the galaxy at that moment and we wouldn't have had a ME2 and an ME3.

 

Their numbers? We don't even know how many reapers there are in total. We clearly just see the reapers differently, but it was their sheer size and how difficult they were to destroy that was compelling for me. They were virtually indestructible. The fact that there were more than two just made the stakes that much higher.

[Vortex13]

I disagree. Size is an effective stimulus to build a sense of fear and awe. If the reapers were incredibly tiny and the size of your finger, would they be menacing for you then? The fact that we also saw an actual reaper only occasionally built up the mysticism behind these sentient machines and how dangerous they actually were.

 

 

 

Yeah but if there was a literal swarm of those tiny Reapers, so much so that they literally blotted out the sun when they descended to a planet, that would be rather intimating; swarms of insects or nano bots can be scary too. The Grey Goo doomsday scenario for example can be just as frightening, if not moreso, than a giant monster rampaging through the city. 

 

Though I do agree that the Reapers held more menace to them when they were only seen rarely. In ME 3 they really lost that awe inspiring quality when they were everywhere, to the point of being an animated background prop.

[Iakus]

The Reapers were handled badly in almost all regards. If a competent gamer was in control of the Reapers, then they would have won within days.

 

Sovereign could have started off the harvest years before Shepard became a spectre, it already had everything it needed to win. All the nonsense with the Geth, with resurrecting the Rachni and cloning Krogan... that all wasn't necessary. The Conduit? Unnecessary.

The cuttlefish controlled the most famous spectre and a highly respected matriarch. Through them it had full clearances and the authority of the council, it could have marched its pawns straight into the council chambers and triggered the mass relay into dark space. No need for an assault, no need to find the Conduit.

Even all that wasn't necessary... after all, the AI in control of the Reapers also controls the Citadel. At any point it could have started the harvest, it didn't need Sovereign's signal.

 

Let's assume for a moment Sovereign fails and the Catalyst is in hibernation. Let's assume Harbinger's pet project falls into the hands of the humans. It doesn't change anything.

The Reapers had overwhelming force, the Batarians were theirs for years already and they even controlled part of the Geth. How incompetent do you have to be to lose with such an advantage?

If I had been in control, I wouldn't have bothered with ground troops. I would have established my dominance in space, gotten air superiority over the planets and then covered the populations centers and military bases with air dropped Dragon's Teeth and indoctrination devices. Anything actively resisting would be bombed from orbit. After a week, the planet is mine. What do I need ground troops for? My indoctrinated masses will take care of any stragglers hiding out in the country. Or hey, I'm an incredibly advanced AI with the accumulated knowledge of thousands of species. Can't I come up with a plague that wipes out every sentient being on a planet once I harvested the majority of the population? Make clean up easier? Didn't Harbinger had such a plague tested on Omega? Why not use it again but include humans this time?

Anderson's resistance wouldn't last a week against my Reaper forces. Especially since I wouldn't give him anything to resist against. There is no need to devastate the cities. After all spaceworthy ships have been destroyed, after the orbital defenses are dismantled, after all tactical weapon stockpiles have been annihilated... there's no need for combat anymore. Indoctrinate everyone, then kill the remains with a plague, done.

A dozen Reapers for each planet, after a week the galaxy is mine. Reaper fleet was how large? 10.000 of the big ones? Even more destroyers? Against how many colonies? Massive numbers to overwhelm their fleets, then it's a walk in the park after.

 

Since the Reapers were able to steal the heavily guarded Citadel, why did they wait so long to do it? It would be my first move and it would cripple the council species. Have you noticed how, despite all the warnings throughout the years, they never made contingency plans? Never moved their government somewhere else? They -knew- that the Citadel was a trap set by the Reapers and stayed.

 

There was so much stupidity in the games and each addition was worse than the one before. Sovereign lost its shields because a remote controlled robot was destroyed? Why? The Reapers left Object Rho behind so the galaxy would know when they'd come back? Why? Harbinger was running genetic experiments with the help of its clone troopers and attacked the human colonies long before the harvest started, which drew attention to it. Oh, and was the reason the Illusive Man resurrected Shepard. Why?

 

Not that the council species were any better... both sides failed so hard so often, it's no wonder Shepard only won by accident.

ME1:

 

Sovereign sends a bunch of seeker swarms into the Citadel along with Saren and the geth.

 

Shepard ends up standing around like an idiot next to the relay prototype on the Presidium while Sovereign opens the dark space relays.

 

Critical Mission Failure

 

ME3 Reapers blitz the Citadel and capture it, shut off the relay network, then send about a thousand Reapers to Earth, picket the now-inactive relay, and start harvesting the system.

 

Shepard never makes it off Earth, let alone out of the Sol system.

 

Critical Mission Failure.

[Revan Reborn]

Yeah but if there was a literal swarm of those tiny Reapers, so much so that they literally blotted out the sun when they descended to a planet, that would be rather intimating; swarms of insects or nano bots can be scary too. The Grey Goo doomsday scenario for example can be just as frightening, if not moreso, than a giant monster rampaging through the city.

Though I do agree that the Reapers held more menace to them when they were only seen rarely. In ME 3 they really lost that awe inspiring quality when they were everywhere, to the point of being an animated background prop.

It's ironic because we had the collector swarm in ME2... I didn't think they were menacing at all. The only thing it reminded me of was how utterly ridiculous it looked and brought back memories of The Mummy... Sorry. Size does matter, in my opinion. The reapers would not have been the same without their size.

The problem is BioWare just didn't dedicate enough time to do the reaper threat justice. ME3 should have honestly been another three games and perhaps BioWare would have been able to use the reapers more than just as a backdrop.

[Iakus]

It's ironic because we had the collector swarm in ME2... I didn't think they were menacing at all. The only thing it reminded me of was how utterly ridiculous it looked and brought back memories of The Mummy... Sorry. Size does matter, in my opinion. The reapers would not have been the same without their size.

 

I dunno.  I thought the long walk with the biotic bubble was one of the high points of ME2

[DaemionMoadrin]

I dunno.  I thought the long walk with the biotic bubble was one of the high points of ME2

 

The suicide mission in general was pretty great... except for the parts with the Normandy and the human reaper in the end. And the organic sludge pipes.

[straykat]

The suicide mission in general was pretty great... except for the parts with the Normandy and the human reaper in the end. And the organic sludge pipes.

 

I thought the sludge was pretty horrifying.. even if it didn't make sense.

 

Sad end for Kelly.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I thought the sludge was pretty horrifying.. even if it didn't make sense.

 

Sad end for Kelly.

 

Kelly always survived in my playthroughs, as did the rest of the crew.

 

It was horrifying... in a way. But the idea that this would work in any shape or form ... ugh... no, not starting this again.

[themikefest]

The best part about the suicide mission is you can recruit all squadmates and have all dead including Shepard. Or have 10 squadmates killed with Shepard surviving. Excellent

 

It was funny seeing the 3-eyed terminator. I wonder what Arnold would say if he saw that? Most likely fall over laughing

[straykat]

Kelly always survived in my playthroughs, as did the rest of the crew.

 

It was horrifying... in a way. But the idea that this would work in any shape or form ... ugh... no, not starting this again.

 

My first run didn't go so well.. then afterwards, I got them all to survive all the time. Then later I just metagame who survives or not. I don't like a perfect run exactly, I guess. I kind of want it to look like Aliens or something. Ripley's teams always get torn apart.

[Draining Dragon]

It's like the chapter of a Plinkett review:
 
Is everyone blind AND stupid? 

It's so dense, every single image has so many things going on.

[Bowlcuts]

My first suicide run was pretty bad just about everyone died, I put Legion in the tunnel or whatever.

 

And then I was like "powerful biotic... Jack!"

 

....

 

Then because of that or some other reason we were too late to save Kelly who melted down before Shepard's eyes.

 

I'm pretty sure Jacob then got shot somehow or something.

 

I was like, well!

 

Nuts!

 

And sorry but I still don't really get how Jack wasn't a more powerful biotic than Samara according to the game...

Like omg no way.

[Erstus]

Virmire was not a morally grey choice - Annoying puss Kaden or Ashley? Yeah, real tough choice there.....

[Revan Reborn]

Virmire was not a morally grey choice - Annoying puss Kaden or Ashley? Yeah, real tough choice there.....

The point is it was presented as a moral dilemma. Sacrifice your good friend that you had known for a long time or your potential love interest? Whether it was executed well or not is an entirely different discussion. The point is you had to choose and either choice would lead to someone dying. These kinds of choices have meaning and I'd like to see more of them in MEA, as long as they are executed properly.

[Midnight Bliss]

Virmire was not a morally grey choice - Annoying puss Kaden or Ashley? Yeah, real tough choice there.....

Jealousy isn't a good look on anybody fyi.

[In Exile]

The point is it was presented as a moral dilemma. Sacrifice your good friend that you had known for a long time or your potential love interest? Whether it was executed well or not is an entirely different discussion. The point is you had to choose and either choice would lead to someone dying. These kinds of choices have meaning and I'd like to see more of them in MEA, as long as they are executed properly.

 

? Shepard didn't know either Ash or Kaiden for more than the length of ME1. 

[UpUpAway]

The point is it was presented as a moral dilemma. Sacrifice your good friend that you had known for a long time or your potential love interest? Whether it was executed well or not is an entirely different discussion. The point is you had to choose and either choice would lead to someone dying. These kinds of choices have meaning and I'd like to see more of them in MEA, as long as they are executed properly.

 

Shepard clearly had just met Kaidan prior to Eden Prime, precipitating his/her question of Dr. Chakwas:  "What do you know about the lieutenant."

Shepard had clearly just met Ashley on Eden Prime.

Male or Female, Shepard at no time was making a choice between a long-time friend and a potential LI.  He/she MIGHT have been making a choice between a new but good friend and a LI... but only if the player chose to construct it that way.

[KaiserShep]

I disagree. Size is an effective stimulus to build a sense of fear and awe. If the reapers were incredibly tiny and the size of your finger, would they be menacing for you then? The fact that we also saw an actual reaper only occasionally built up the mysticism behind these sentient machines and how dangerous they actually were.

 

I fail to see how game mechanics BioWare created somehow undermines the reapers as a whole. BioWare wanted to defeat Sovereign and came up with a means that seemed practical for Shepard to win. Otherwise, Sovereign would have crippled the galaxy at that moment and we wouldn't have had a ME2 and an ME3.

 

Their numbers? We don't even know how many reapers there are in total. We clearly just see the reapers differently, but it was their sheer size and how difficult they were to destroy that was compelling for me. They were virtually indestructible. The fact that there were more than two just made the stakes that much higher.

 

 

It's ironic because we had the collector swarm in ME2... I didn't think they were menacing at all. The only thing it reminded me of was how utterly ridiculous it looked and brought back memories of The Mummy... Sorry. Size does matter, in my opinion. The reapers would not have been the same without their size.

The problem is BioWare just didn't dedicate enough time to do the reaper threat justice. ME3 should have honestly been another three games and perhaps BioWare would have been able to use the reapers more than just as a backdrop.

 

 

I suppose individual results may vary, because the size meant very little to. Despite their size, the reapers menace just didn't seem to be that effective. But in any case, I'm not talking about something like the piddly cloud of space locusts like the seeker swarms, but rather something along the lines of the sentinels from the Matrix, or the mimics. 

 

There's not much that can be done with the reapers, and they certainly couldn't last for that many games. For one, they're vastly overpowered, which is part of what makes them so uninteresting in and of themselves. Either most of the franchise is spent waiting for them to arrive to the galaxy, or they get nerfed and the galaxy is able to last so long that we'd go through multiple titles fighting them. In any case, they're fairly simplistic as an enemy faction. They're just big machines that want to kill everything. They don't have complex personalities or anything of particular interest to explore outside of the Leviathan subplot. All that will end up happening is that they remain the background threat while we deal with other enemies that are more our scale. 

[UpUpAway]

 

 

I suppose individual results may vary, because the size meant very little to. Despite their size, the reapers menace just didn't seem to be that effective. But in any case, I'm not talking about something like the piddly cloud of space locusts like the seeker swarms, but rather something along the lines of the sentinels from the Matrix, or the mimics. 

 

There's not much that can be done with the reapers, and they certainly couldn't last for that many games. For one, they're vastly overpowered, which is part of what makes them so uninteresting in and of themselves. Either most of the franchise is spent waiting for them to arrive to the galaxy, or they get nerfed and the galaxy is able to last so long that we'd go through multiple titles fighting them. In any case, they're fairly simplistic as an enemy faction. They're just big machines that want to kill everything. They don't have complex personalities or anything of particular interest to explore outside of the Leviathan subplot. All that will end up happening is that they remain the background threat while we deal with other enemies that are more our scale. 

 

 

There was a last ditch attempt to add some "depth" to the Reapers in ME3 with the idea that they encompassed the knowledge of all past civilizations and, if the Synthesis Ending was chosen, they could bring all that past knowledge forward with them into the current cycle.  Of course, the strenuous objections many players jhad/have to the concepts they see behind the Synthesis Ending really precludes BioWare being able to bring this idea forward into ME:A.

[Revan Reborn]

? Shepard didn't know either Ash or Kaiden for more than the length of ME1. 

Even with this being the case, we don't exactly know how much time passed over the course of ME1. There's nothing to suggest Kaidan and Shepard aren't good friends by now and that Ash couldn't have been a potential love interest. The point is there was meant to be a struggle with grappling who to choose.

 

Shepard clearly had just met Kaidan prior to Eden Prime, precipitating his/her question of Dr. Chakwas:  "What do you know about the lieutenant."

Shepard had clearly just met Ashley on Eden Prime.

Male or Female, Shepard at no time was making a choice between a long-time friend and a potential LI.  He/she MIGHT have been making a choice between a new but good friend and a LI... but only if the player chose to construct it that way.

Even if this is the case, as I explained above, we do not know how much time actually passed from Eden Prime to Virmire. The game is all about player choice, so this is a rather silly point to illuminate. Regardless of how you "construct it," this was meant to be a moral dilemma in choosing between two of your crew who you likely had grown a liking towards. Depending on your choice, you were going to lose one of them.

 

I suppose individual results may vary, because the size meant very little to. Despite their size, the reapers menace just didn't seem to be that effective. But in any case, I'm not talking about something like the piddly cloud of space locusts like the seeker swarms, but rather something along the lines of the sentinels from the Matrix, or the mimics. 

 

There's not much that can be done with the reapers, and they certainly couldn't last for that many games. For one, they're vastly overpowered, which is part of what makes them so uninteresting in and of themselves. Either most of the franchise is spent waiting for them to arrive to the galaxy, or they get nerfed and the galaxy is able to last so long that we'd go through multiple titles fighting them. In any case, they're fairly simplistic as an enemy faction. They're just big machines that want to kill everything. They don't have complex personalities or anything of particular interest to explore outside of the Leviathan subplot. All that will end up happening is that they remain the background threat while we deal with other enemies that are more our scale. 

 

A difference in opinion then. I felt what made the reapers interesting was how overpowered they were and that victory didn't seem likely. That's why I was invested in the franchise to start to see how the game would end. Had the reapers had a variety of flaws and weaknesses shown early on, that would have largely undermined the build up to the final game. I don't think there was anything wrong with the reapers themselves. I just believe a change in lead writer and being pressed for time led to an unfulfilling ending with the existential threat not getting the attention it deserved.