95 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Hmm....it appears I  have been gravely mistaken concerning Romeo and Juliet.  That last line makes all the difference really.  For some reason I have always thought of Romeo and Juliet as the world's most deadly serious teenage drama sitcom. 

 

I think I'm going to have to stand by my original point though.  They didn't set out on a journey to punish their kinsmen from the onset of the story, but merely did so after all other avenues were spent at the very end.  An act of desperation.  I guess you could say love was their adventure but the adventure ended when Romeo thought Juliet was dead.  

 

Or I could just be backpedaling up the yin yang right now.   Score a point for the "Not all adventures have to end in a joyful return" crowd. Maybe that's why I really, REALLY hated

Spoiler

Sunshine

Your analysis isn't wrong.  If anything it's understated.  The Prince of Verona who pretty much turned a blind eye to their feud, suffered as much as either family.  Since Mercutio  (a friend of Romeo's) and Paris (a suitor of Juliet's) were both kin to him, and died as a result of the feud as well. The Prince's apathy, his not stepping in earlier got not only Romeo and Juliet dead but his own family members killed as well.

[fhs33721]

And there my friends is the real reason why the endings are terrible. Not even exaggerating.   Bioware inadvertently deadened the impact to the conclusion of what could have been an extraordinarily amazing trilogy.  Instead of people talking about The Force Awakens and its inevitable sequel right now, they could be talking how amazing Andromeda will be.   Many people are still hyped for Andromeda, make no mistake. 

 

No one can deny that, not even me.  But instead of everyone and their mother heralding its oncoming approach, some people are a bit more wary, if nothing else.  That is the true tragedy out of all of this.  Bioware had a legendary gift for the ages.  Instead they fumbled the gift at the 1 yard line. 

If this is the real reason why the endings are terrible then why did you start this thread with a completely unrelated quote that is about the necessity of the hero returning alive at the end of an adventure, which Sheaprd can actually do?

This does not compute.

 

If "faceless torso taking a breath" is considered survival, I suppose...

It probably is unless you want to be either extremely pessimistic or unreasionably stubborn about the whole "Bioware forced my character to die" thing.

[UniformGreyColor]

The very heart of the problems with these choices - as I see it - is exactly that we are PRESENTED with these choices at all. What I mean we play through three games, and then we can choose door one, two, three or the mystery box. If any of these choices would have evolved naturally over the course of the games, and the decisons we made prior (and the war-points is the most stupid mechanic I've ever seen in a game, could have been interesting, but so stupid it hurts ^^)? I might even consider it to be okay, and it would be fun to play the games again and change decisions so I don't end up turning everyone into Borg...

 

But in-game those great meaningful choices in the end have had the same impact on me as if the Starbrat asks me to choose between: Strawberry, chocolate or vanilla flavoured icecream for desert...

 

Why not both? Oh, wait, there are three options not 2.

[Hadeedak]

   Score a point for the "Not all adventures have to end in a joyful return" crowd. 

 

That's all I'm here for.  I'm a happy person who loves pathos on occasion!

 

I'm pretty cool with the ME3 ending since the extended cut, since I read too much golden age sf and I'm kind of used to some of the shenanigans pulled there. I get why people are mad, and as long as they get why I wasn't, it's all good. But dangit, I will stick up for turgedy being just as valid as a big party every time.

 

And I'll rather look forward to watching Agent Carter if my other half decides to get it. He's the Marvel person. I'm watching Arrow because I'm terrible.

[Iakus]

 

It probably is unless you want to be either extremely pessimistic or unreasionably stubborn about the whole "Bioware forced my character to die" thing.

Yep.  That's me.  Unreasonable for having an opinion.

[UniformGreyColor]

OP is so funny.

[UniformGreyColor]

[...]

 

You know, you often hear about the guy who jumped on the grenade to save his comrades life but you never hear about the time when they have to kill their wounded comrade because he's making so much racket that he will give away their location. War is not pretty. It is not honorable even. It is just plain ugly. There are no heroes in war, only victims.

Modifié par BioWareMod07, 27 février 2016 - 02:46 .
Edited to remove quoted post

[UniformGreyColor]

[...]

 

I'll let you in on a secret. The person who told me about soldiers who have to kill their comrades was an army vet. War is uglier that you are thinking. Do the vets say "my best friend died a hero" you bet, but the reason they do so is so they stay sane. Soldiers are still people and as such are not immune to heartache and there is much of that in war. Read the book 'The Things They Carried' to get a look at what it was like fighting in the Vietnam war. Its the realest depiction of war I have come across because it was written by a Vietnam Vet who served on the front lines.

Modifié par BioWareMod07, 27 février 2016 - 02:57 .
Edited to remove quoted post

[SardaukarElite]

I'll let you in on a secret. The person who told me about soldiers who have to kill their comrades was an army vet. War is uglier that you are thinking. Do the vets say "my best friend died a hero" you bet, but the reason they do so is so they stay sane. Soldiers are still people and as such are not immune to heartache and there is much of that in war. Read the book 'The Things They Carried' to get a look at what it was like fighting in the Vietnam war. Its the realest depiction of war I have come across because it was written by a Vietnam Vet who served on the front lines.

 

I've read accounts of veterans as well and they're not always doom and gloom. War is horrible, yes, but there are still stories of genuine heroism that come from it.

[UniformGreyColor]

I've read accounts of veterans as well and they're not always doom and gloom. War is horrible, yes, but there are still stories of genuine heroism that come from it.

 

I don't want to sound like there is no heroism in war because that's not true and vets are not always doom and gloom because they are people who have varying emotions. All I'm trying to convey is that to somehow romanticize war for what it is not rather than what it is is not fair to the gravity that war produces.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't want to sound like there is no heroism in war because that's not true and vets are not always doom and gloom because they are people who have varying emotions. All I'm trying to convey is that to somehow romanticize war for what it is not rather than what it is is not fair to the gravity that war produces.

Um, a few posts ago you said:

You know, you often hear about the guy who jumped on the grenade to save his comrades life but you never hear about the time when they have to kill their wounded comrade because he's making so much racket that he will give away their location. War is not pretty. It is not honorable even. It is just plain ugly. There are no heroes in war, only victims.

Also, just because people think there are war heroes does not mean those same people romanticize war.

[The Hierophant]

Everyone stop. Just because we and our military personnel might view themselves as heroes doesn't mean the same would hold true for the people on the other side of the conflict. One man's hero is another's monster. Then there's the issue of propaganda too, like in the case of Jessica Lynch. While the classification of one's death as being a noble sacrifice is a murky subject when you consider the conflicting viewpoints, and mixed emotions surrounding situations like Pat Tillman's, Richard L. Tate's or Bowe Bergdahl's. 

 

Please stop. David would salivate at all this talk of heroism, adventure and noble sacrifice.

[Gothfather]

I'll let you in on a secret. The person who told me about soldiers who have to kill their comrades was an army vet. War is uglier that you are thinking. Do the vets say "my best friend died a hero" you bet, but the reason they do so is so they stay sane. Soldiers are still people and as such are not immune to heartache and there is much of that in war. Read the book 'The Things They Carried' to get a look at what it was like fighting in the Vietnam war. Its the realest depiction of war I have come across because it was written by a Vietnam Vet who served on the front lines.

 

 You are sitting in your faux intellectual tower thinking how clever you are by talking about the ugliness of war. Not once have I cage war in terms of the lens of glory and accolades. I have simply cage it in terms of people laying down their lives have a nobility of sacrifice. What you think because war is ugly that that negates the scarifies of the people who fight it?  The hubris abounds. The fact that war is ugly that there is no glory to be had makes those who sacrifice their lives for a just cause all the more fraking heroic you intellectual midget. The worse war is doesn't diminish the heroics of those willing to die to save comrades and fight so others don't have to it magnifies it.

 

But no some arrogant gamer is going to sit there and say that because war is ugly that those who fight it have no honour no nobility in their sacrifice. War maybe without honour but soldiers who take an oath to fight and then follow through until death have a nobility and honour you will never understand. There is a fraking difference between war and the soldier. But you are so fraking enamoured with your faux intellectualism at how you "know" war because you read a book that you actually have the gall to claim that those who died fighting so you or I never had to are not heroes and have no honour because hey war is ugly and without honour. What war does to soldiers is terrible which makes those willing to fight and die all the more deserving of our thanks and acknowledgement but not you. No you have to fraking score "points" on how 'clever' you are by insulting those who die by claiming that there is no honour in it. That soldiers who say those who make the ultimate sacrifice in war are the true heroes are just lying to themselves to stay sane. F@CK the hubris you have is beyond words.

 

Thanks for proving my statement that gamers are the WORSE.

[Iakus]

I don't want to sound like there is no heroism in war because that's not true and vets are not always doom and gloom because they are people who have varying emotions. All I'm trying to convey is that to somehow romanticize war for what it is not rather than what it is is not fair to the gravity that war produces.

My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers.  Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won.

 

Arthur Wellesly, 1st Duke of Wellington

[fhs33721]

Yep.  That's me.  Unreasonable for having an opinion.

No unreasonably stubborn for continuously arguing that Shepard is dead in high EMS-destroy even though plenty evidence for the opposite exists. The video is named Shepard_lives.cutscene or something along those lines for Harbingers sake.

 

By the wy Bioshock infinite is nice. Thanks for recommending that one.

[Iakus]

No unreasonably stubborn for continuously arguing that Shepard is dead in high EMS-destroy even though plenty evidence for the opposite exists. The video is named Shepard_lives.cutscene or something along those lines for Harbingers sake.

 

By the wy Bioshock infinite is nice. Thanks for recommending that one.

Actually, I argue that Shepard's fate is still in doubt in that scene.  At best, it's permission to headcanon.  And in fact it was expressly stated that the scene was intended to be "a ray of hope", NOT definitive confirmation that Shepard ultimately survives.

 

This as opposed to EVERY OTHER ENDING where we get to watch Shepard die horribly.  The balance here is totally out of whack.  Why so many endings where Shepard definitively dies and not one ending where a Bioware employee can say "Yes Shepard definitely lives" but must instead use weasel words like 'implies" and "indicates" or "suggests"?

 

And I'd hardly call the list I made "recommendations"  The Walking Dead is the only one of those I actually enjoyed 

[prosthetic soul]

If this is the real reason why the endings are terrible then why did you start this thread with a completely unrelated quote that is about the necessity of the hero returning alive at the end of an adventure, which Sheaprd can actually do?

This does not compute.

 

It probably is unless you want to be either extremely pessimistic or unreasionably stubborn about the whole "Bioware forced my character to die" thing.

I kind of....told you already.  I think.  The whole thread was made with the intention of making it tongue in cheek.  I know I have somewhat of a bad rep around here since I've complained so much about the ending.  I was trying to put an old spin on a worn out point of mine.  Clearly it backfired.  >_>

[UniformGreyColor]

I kind of....told you already.  I think.  The whole thread was made with the intention of making it tongue in cheek.  I know I have somewhat of a bad rep around here since I've complained so much about the ending.  I was trying to put an old spin on a worn out point of mine.  Clearly it backfired.  >_>

 

Honestly I think people who are taking your statements as serious as some are are not really understanding that you are basically making joke after joke. Its honestly hilarious, not that people are taking your jokes seriously, but the fact that you tell your jokes with such clever words.

[UniformGreyColor]

Um, a few posts ago you said:

Also, just because people think there are war heroes does not mean those same people romanticize war.

 

My point was that for the little heroism that is in war, done mostly no doubt by soldiers themselves who romanticise war or simply must have that outlook to not fall to their grief, those occurrences are far and few in between.

[Draining Dragon]

Gamers arguing about war? You know what this calls for.

Spoiler

By the way, Chronoid, you should consider signing up at TSG. I think you'd fit in well there.

[UniformGreyColor]

 You are sitting in your faux intellectual tower thinking how clever you are by talking about the ugliness of war. Not once have I cage war in terms of the lens of glory and accolades. I have simply cage it in terms of people laying down their lives have a nobility of sacrifice. What you think because war is ugly that that negates the scarifies of the people who fight it?  The hubris abounds. The fact that war is ugly that there is no glory to be had makes those who sacrifice their lives for a just cause all the more fraking heroic you intellectual midget. The worse war is doesn't diminish the heroics of those willing to die to save comrades and fight so others don't have to it magnifies it.

 

But no some arrogant gamer is going to sit there and say that because war is ugly that those who fight it have no honour no nobility in their sacrifice. War maybe without honour but soldiers who take an oath to fight and then follow through until death have a nobility and honour you will never understand. There is a fraking difference between war and the soldier. But you are so fraking enamoured with your faux intellectualism at how you "know" war because you read a book that you actually have the gall to claim that those who died fighting so you or I never had to are not heroes and have no honour because hey war is ugly and without honour. What war does to soldiers is terrible which makes those willing to fight and die all the more deserving of our thanks and acknowledgement but not you. No you have to fraking score "points" on how 'clever' you are by insulting those who die by claiming that there is no honour in it. That soldiers who say those who make the ultimate sacrifice in war are the true heroes are just lying to themselves to stay sane. F@CK the hubris you have is beyond words.

 

Thanks for proving my statement that gamers are the WORSE.

 

Please tell me all these "just causes" that abounds in war, I'd like to know about them. You honestly think I say what I say with an arrogant tongue? It is by the heaviness that war is that I say these things, not that I feel superior for having this outlook. War is sad. War is terrifying. I do not sit atop an arrogant pile of self absorbed opinion sharing how war is ugly and I honestly do not understand where you are getting that I am somehow arrogant for bringing to light something that is so grim. There is sacrifice in war and in fact, that is what war really boils down to. But to glorify loss as a good thing does not garner the truth that war is loss. Little can be gained in a real war. Those who give the orders to go to war should do so with heavy hearts and only when it is absolutely necessary. All too often do people go to war for such terrible unjustified reasons. This is why war is ugly -because the cause is rarely justified, and the ones that are are filled with sorrow and grief and loss.