609 réponses à ce sujet

[Addictress]

...wat

 

weird mood, sorry

[Kabraxal]

Sweetie, we're not discounting anything. All those zones are empty of content that is meaningful and fun to us and that's a problem (as is the power requirements system that forces us to do the boring fluff). Please actually read the posts and stop repeating the same pointless crying. You're saying we want DA to "go above and beyond" what any other RPG does but we just want some of the same kind of content from BioWare's previous games to be included in the zones. We point to TW3 because it's such a similar game on the surface and yet it manages to have both an open world AND engaging side quests. Both "companion" quests AND other fun quests as well as the fluff. DA:I completely separates anything fun from the zones which makes those zones pointless.

Except most of the world is filled only with points of interest or "filler" contacts. Oops, damn... Sorry forgot I have to worship that "revolutionary" game that revulolutionised jack ****. You can't even apply your own standards across games and that is why it is so easy to discount anything you have to say. If DA: I suffers from lacking side content then so does the Witcher "sweetie".

And again there you go with the "it's not fun!" As if it is fact. I think you'll notice that is the attitude I have actually taken to task. Not only has there been side content from DA: I brought up to defeat the "filler!" Crying, but you keep proving your own inability to apply any level of objective critical thought. When you actually come up with a non hypicritical criticism, then may e we'll take your posts seriously. As it stands, I'll just shake my head at the continued ignorant parroting that DA: I suffers from a filler problem.

[Addictress]

Except most of the world is filled only with points of interest or "filler" contacts. Oops, damn... Sorry forgot I have to worship that "revolutionary" game that revulolutionised jack ****. You can't even apply your own standards across games and that is why it is so easy to discount anything you have to say. If DA: I suffers from lacking side content then so does the Witcher "sweetie".

And again there you go with the "it's not fun!" As if it is fact. I think you'll notice that is the attitude I have actually taken to task. Not only has there been side content from DA: I brought up to defeat the "filler!" Crying, but you keep proving your own inability to apply any level of objective critical thought. When you actually come up with a non hypicritical criticism, then may e we'll take your posts seriously. As it stands, I'll just shake my head at the continued ignorant parroting that DA: I suffers from a filler problem.

Look, I know I suck at writing nowadays, but did my comparison of the Ortan Thaig quest from DAO and the Hunter Ram Meat quest from DAI really not critically analyze the content? We really did point out things with objective critical thought, unlike what you said. I remember Nefla had extremely detailed posts that dissected quests and compared them.

[Addictress]

  

People have been posting what they consider good criteria for "well done" side quests for the entire thread. A good list is in this post
http://forum.bioware...sts/?p=20105991
 

[Kabraxal]

Look, I know I suck at writing nowadays, but did my comparison of the Ortan Thaig quest from DAO and the Hunter Ram Meat quest from DAI really not critically analyze the content? We really did point out things with objective critical thought, unlike what you said. I remember Nefla had extremely detailed posts that dissected quests and compared them.

And yet that sude content exists in DA: I... As has neen repeated time and again. The companion content alone matches most RPGs for "meanigful" content that meets the criteria. And there are at least two judgements born out of simply wandering and completing the "filler/fetch" questing.

But apparently that side content does not count for reasons that no one has yet explained. And the simple facts that TW3 has a similar offering of meaningful and filler content, this continued posturing that DA: I suffered for it but TW3 is a shining example of revolutionary quest design is shown for pure monsense. DA: I gave us quite a rich and deep side offering. People are cherry picking what counts just to make a false statement.

[Addictress]

And yet that sude content exists in DA: I... As has neen repeated time and again. The companion content alone matches most RPGs for "meanigful" content that meets the criteria. And there are at least two judgements born out of simply wandering and completing the "filler/fetch" questing.

But apparently that side content does not count for reasons that no one has yet explained. And the simple facts that TW3 has a similar offering of meaningful and filler content, this continued posturing that DA: I suffered for it but TW3 is a shining example of revolutionary quest design is shown for pure monsense. DA: I gave us quite a rich and deep side offering. People are cherry picking what counts just to make a false statement.

...aaand you didn't read the posts.

[Nefla]

Except most of the world is filled only with points of interest or "filler" contacts. Oops, damn... Sorry forgot I have to worship that "revolutionary" game that revulolutionised jack ****. You can't even apply your own standards across games and that is why it is so easy to discount anything you have to say. If DA: I suffers from lacking side content then so does the Witcher "sweetie".

And again there you go with the "it's not fun!" As if it is fact. I think you'll notice that is the attitude I have actually taken to task. Not only has there been side content from DA: I brought up to defeat the "filler!" Crying, but you keep proving your own inability to apply any level of objective critical thought. When you actually come up with a non hypicritical criticism, then may e we'll take your posts seriously. As it stands, I'll just shake my head at the continued ignorant parroting that DA: I suffers from a filler problem.

Um no one is saying you have to worship anything, stop taking everything so personally. I never said TW3 was revolutionary, it was just better done than DA:I. A lot better. You can disagree with me all you want, that's fine. TW3 has a lot more interesting side content than DA:I AND it's integrated into the world rather than being tucked away in self-contained areas.

 

It's not fun to me, that is fact. I really don't get why people disliking something you like is somehow some unforgivable personal affront that you feel the need to rage against at every turn. You're satisfied with DA:I? Cool, I'm not saying you're not. I was very much NOT satisfied with DA:I, I don't know why you can't accept that. 

 

Nothing you've brought up has "defeated" anything. You brought up companion quests and judgements but as I've repeated to you over and over:

 

-Companion quests have been done in every DA, they are not something unique to DA:I

-They are mostly set in Skyhold or self contained areas (with judgements being entirely in Skyhold) leaving the vast zones empty of anything but filler

-TW3 also has companion quests which are integrated into the world and are IMO still better (though companion quests are by far the best sidequests in DA:I)

-Previous BioWare games have had the more fleshed out, meatier sidequests alongside companion quests. They had both, not just companion quests.

 

The lack of what I find to be meatier, more engaging quests is what makes "exploring" the zones in DA:I a total waste of time for me and not fun in the slightest.

[Steelcan]

And yet that sude content exists in DA: I... As has neen repeated time and again. The companion content alone matches most RPGs for "meanigful" content that meets the criteria. And there are at least two judgements born out of simply wandering and completing the "filler/fetch" questing.

But apparently that side content does not count for reasons that no one has yet explained. And the simple facts that TW3 has a similar offering of meaningful and filler content, this continued posturing that DA: I suffered for it but TW3 is a shining example of revolutionary quest design is shown for pure monsense. DA: I gave us quite a rich and deep side offering. People are cherry picking what counts just to make a false statement.

I take it you didn't actually play TW3

 

You really cannot compare the two's side quests

[Nefla]

And yet that sude content exists in DA: I... As has neen repeated time and again. The companion content alone matches most RPGs for "meanigful" content that meets the criteria. And there are at least two judgements born out of simply wandering and completing the "filler/fetch" questing.

But apparently that side content does not count for reasons that no one has yet explained. And the simple facts that TW3 has a similar offering of meaningful and filler content, this continued posturing that DA: I suffered for it but TW3 is a shining example of revolutionary quest design is shown for pure monsense. DA: I gave us quite a rich and deep side offering. People are cherry picking what counts just to make a false statement.

Clearly the side content you find to be entertaining, we find to be crappy. What you find to be meaningful, we find lackluster and boring.

 

We keep explaining but it seems you don't actually read the posts you reply to before being set off. Why do we not complain about the companion quests? Because the companion quests are fine. They could use some refinement but they're not the quests we have a problem with. The quests we have a problem with are the hundreds of "find my ring" "find my goat" "follow notes around the desert" "get me 3 bear hides" etc...quests with:

 

-no cinematics or even close shots of the people talking

-little to no dialogue

-no choice of how to resolve

-little to no story

-little to no development of the NPCs involved that would make me care and want to do something for them, little to no connection to the main plot, no reactivity

-little to no humor, creativity, emotional elements, etc...

 

These are the only quests available in the zones. They lack the things I like in a quest and are therefore utterly worthless to me. It's fine that these quests exist, the problem is that they are the ONLY quests that exist out in the zones. If the only things of substance are going to be in self contained areas or Skyhold then why have the optional zones in the first place?

 

I'm 100% sure you won't read this post but will quote it and say that I just hate EA or something like that and claim to not understand what myself or others are telling you and I'm also pretty sure at this point that you're probably around 13 years old and will just continue the over-the-top emotional responses without backing up your arguments and both of those things together means you're not worth arguing with and are going on my ignore list. Bye.

[Addictress]

Nefla should be like my rage buddy

[Kabraxal]

I take it you didn't actually play TW3
 
You really cannot compare the two's side quests

Played it, beat it, tried to replay it then gave it away to a friend. Most side content (and the main quest...) is talk, follow a person or trail, fight and/or fetch something, talk. Yeah... Wasn't exactly lighting my world on fire. But you don't see me continuosly and falsely parroting that the game has a filler problem. Hell, it is pretty much stock rpg questing. If the game wasn't so derivitive in its "mature" storytelling abd Geralt wasn't one of the worst protagonists in RPGs, I might have gotten more out of the game.

I get some might like TW3 and therefore either enjoy the stock quests or give them a pass... But it is not objectively true that its quests are deeper or better designed. Hell, if anything the contracts and points of interest fill up more of TW3 than any "filler" in DA: I.

And playing ME1 right now... Seeing an almost equal ratio of quests to that of DA: I. Ao this "Bioware did it better before!" Isn't even holding true. I think the one poster is right. The EA tag begs a lot of irrational hate with little truly valid criticism. Well except for ME3's ending... That deserved every bit of derision.

[Addictress]

Actually a MMO is a rpg. MMO is a descendant of MUD (Multi-User Dungeon circa 1978) which is based mainly on the D & D ruleset and inspired by the Dungeon variant of Zork (circa 1977) which was based on Colossal Cave Adventure (circa 1975).
.
All of the so-called particularities of MMOs come from sp rpg games of the past. In fact early crpgs had no cutscenes or cinematics. BG series had no cutscenes and are still considered to be at the pinnacle of rpg goodness. Planescape Torment no real cutscene or (shot reverse shot cinematics) still considered one of the best (if commercially unsuccessful) rpgs.

So what particularities of the MMO are you specifically talking about that has crept it way in that was not present in many of the early crpgs?

Nothing you said conflicts with the logic I used.

We do not like the particularities of MMOs, period. Doesn't matter what begat those particularities. Doesn't matter if Darth Vader is Luke's father. Doesn't change the fact we don't want these MMO traits in current SP RPG games, OK?

Those particularities include rote collection quests that lack depth or quality, relevance to either lore or story, cinematic orchestration, etc.

[Kabraxal]

Clearly the side content you find to be entertaining, we find to be crappy. What you find to be meaningful, we find lackluster and boring.

We keep explaining but it seems you don't actually read the posts you reply to before being set off. Why do we not complain about the companion quests? Because the companion quests are fine. They could use some refinement but they're not the quests we have a problem with. The quests we have a problem with are the hundreds of "find my ring" "find my goat" "follow notes around the desert" "get me 3 bear hides" etc...quests with:

-no cinematics or even close shots of the people talking
-little to no dialogue
-no choice of how to resolve
-little to no story
-little to no development of the NPCs involved that would make me care and want to do something for them, little to no connection to the main plot, no reactivity
-little to no humor, creativity, emotional elements, etc...

These are the only quests available in the zones. They lack the things I like in a quest and are therefore utterly worthless to me. It's fine that these quests exist, the problem is that they are the ONLY quests that exist out in the zones. If the only things of substance are going to be in self contained areas or Skyhold then why have the optional zones in the first place?

I'm 100% sure you won't read this post but will quote it and say that I just hate EA or something like that and claim to not understand what myself or others are telling you and I'm also pretty sure at this point that you're probably around 13 years old and will just continue the over-the-top emotional responses without backing up your arguments and both of those things together means you're not worth arguing with and are going on my ignore list. Bye.

Except all you've done is whine and resort to cheap insults at the drop the hat. It has been explained to you countless times... There is substantial side content (the main damn argument... Do you get it yet?!), and it sometime is even in the zones with *gasp* dialogue (the mage you find and can chose to kill or judge, the agents you can recruit, the desire demon...) but you keep hand waving it away and ignore the very same issues in other games. And let us not forget banter.. You know character development only available in zones : O. Damn, making your arguments look as brittle as they are with such ease.

So put me on the ignore list because you have fully proven to be immature and incapable of any semblence of an intelligent discussion. Toodles "sweetie". Or did you forget you launched that condescending jab too? Damn, sorry to destroy your ranting.

[robertthebard]

Um no one is saying you have to worship anything, stop taking everything so personally. I never said TW3 was revolutionary, it was just better done than DA:I. A lot better. You can disagree with me all you want, that's fine. TW3 has a lot more interesting side content than DA:I AND it's integrated into the world rather than being tucked away in self-contained areas.

Since when is the Hinterlands tucked away anywhere? A lot of the early game takes place there, and some mid game stuff too, depending on how good you are at fighting dragons.
 

It's not fun to me, that is fact. I really don't get why people disliking something you like is somehow some unforgivable personal affront that you feel the need to rage against at every turn. You're satisfied with DA:I? Cool, I'm not saying you're not. I was very much NOT satisfied with DA:I, I don't know why you can't accept that.

A lot of them weren't fun for me either. Chasing rams around as a melee surely wasn't fun. However, I understood what I was doing it for, and didn't try to claim it had no context, when context for it is given by the guy Cass suggests you talk to right after you talk to Gisselle. The fault, if there is any, lies with the player that didn't catch, or chose to ignore, Vael, who will give you a rather detailed account of what needs to happen in the Hinterlands, and why.
 

Nothing you've brought up has "defeated" anything. You brought up companion quests and judgements but as I've repeated to you over and over:
 
-Companion quests have been done in every DA, they are not something unique to DA:I
-They are mostly set in Skyhold or self contained areas (with judgements being entirely in Skyhold) leaving the vast zones empty of anything but filler
-TW3 also has companion quests which are integrated into the world and are IMO still better (though companion quests are by far the best sidequests in DA:I)
-Previous BioWare games have had the more fleshed out, meatier sidequests alongside companion quests. They had both, not just companion quests.

You mean like 95% of the Deep Roads, or, according to the Origin forums, the Fade in the Circle. I suppose you found the Chanter's Board side quest highly entertaining, since they did have a cutscene, of a Chanter that can't say anything that's not part of the Chant of Light. Except for the time you get to trip him up, once.

Did you play Baldur's Gate at all? In BG 1, there are, for the time, absolutely huge maps that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, but are still quite fun to explore. Every single thing in them was filler. Almost every ambush when world travelling was filler. The expansion pack was nothing but filler, and yet, it was really fun to play, to the tune of over 100 completions by myself, trying every class/MC option and alternate dialog choices.
 

The lack of what I find to be meatier, more engaging quests is what makes "exploring" the zones in DA:I a total waste of time for me and not fun in the slightest.

Origins must have driven you totally crazy, with all those cutscenes with people talking at your character instead of to them. I'll wait while you type out the usual "but you're supposed to imagine all that dialog being spoken" when even when dialog is spoken, you didn't enjoy it. How did you ever get through Origins, where all of your "emotion" was imaginary?

[robertthebard]

Nothing you said conflicts with the logic I used.

We do not like the particularities of MMOs, period. Doesn't matter what begat those particularities. Doesn't matter if Darth Vader is Luke's father. Doesn't change the fact we don't want these MMO traits in current SP RPG games, OK?

Those particularities include rote collection quests that lack depth or quality, relevance to either lore or story, cinematic orchestration, etc.

Yay, here's that argument that nobody's making being made yet again. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, it's not going to make it true. RPGs use RPG elements, MMO "particularities", a term made up to continue to support "MMO quests", doesn't make it a valid argument, it just means you made up a term to support an invalid argument. Congratulations?

In fact, in regard to the bolded, and one of the quests that has been bandied about, the ram meat, it in fact has relevance to the story, given to it by the lore, and what's going on in the surrounding countryside. You can, as you have, continue to ignore this, but just as with repeating MMO particularities won't make it true, repeating "It didn't tie into the story" until the next millennium won't make it true either.

[Kabraxal]

Since when is the Hinterlands tucked away anywhere? A lot of the early game takes place there, and some mid game stuff too, depending on how good you are at fighting dragons. A lot of them weren't fun for me either. Chasing rams around as a melee surely wasn't fun. However, I understood what I was doing it for, and didn't try to claim it had no context, when context for it is given by the guy Cass suggests you talk to right after you talk to Gisselle. The fault, if there is any, lies with the player that didn't catch, or chose to ignore, Vael, who will give you a rather detailed account of what needs to happen in the Hinterlands, and why. You mean like 95% of the Deep Roads, or, according to the Origin forums, the Fade in the Circle. I suppose you found the Chanter's Board side quest highly entertaining, since they did have a cutscene, of a Chanter that can't say anything that's not part of the Chant of Light. Except for the time you get to trip him up, once.Did you play Baldur's Gate at all? In BG 1, there are, for the time, absolutely huge maps that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, but are still quite fun to explore. Every single thing in them was filler. Almost every ambush when world travelling was filler. The expansion pack was nothing but filler, and yet, it was really fun to play, to the tune of over 100 completions by myself, trying every class/MC option and alternate dialog choices. Origins must have driven you totally crazy, with all those cutscenes with people talking at your character instead of to them. I'll wait while you type out the usual "but you're supposed to imagine all that dialog being spoken" when even when dialog is spoken, you didn't enjoy it. How did you ever get through Origins, where all of your "emotion" was imaginary?

Their arguments only work with cherry picking. Origins had as many fetch quests, but with a non open world setting, the travel from point to point was much shorter. Many quests was simple ferrying things around or finding lost things with little option other than "do it/don't do it". Seriously, the only real difference is that in DA: I, the cutscenes that offer nothing but facial close ups were switched out for a quicker dialogue delivery.

And DA2 wasn't really better and Mass Effect is filled with material gathering, probing, and most substantial side content being saved for companions.

The facts do not back up these people's claims at all... And the constant hand waving of any counter argument only proves it. DA: I's side content is very much like Origins and Mass Effect. Nostalgia, EA hate, and witcher fan insecurity is the only readon this lie that Inquisition has a filler problem persists. It's not our fault that lie is so easily dismantled by any rational and objective observation.

If you don't like Inquisition's side content fine. But it is neither objectively worse or lesser than other Bioware games, let alone something filled to the brim with fetch quests and repitive content like TW3.

[Nefla]

Since when is the Hinterlands tucked away anywhere? A lot of the early game takes place there, and some mid game stuff too, depending on how good you are at fighting dragons.
 By "a lot of the early game" do you mean when we talk to mother Giselle for 2 seconds and immediately send her to Haven, grind 4 power, and if we choose to recruit the mages talk to Dorian in the Chantry and then Fiona in the bar? That was the most plot interaction we got in any of the zones and it was quite minimal. The part where you talk to Alistair/Stroud/Loghain in a cave in Crestwood was really out of place and would have suited the story better if he arrived at Skyhold with Hawke but it felt like they were trying to at least include something of the main plot out in the zones. You can't deny that most of the main plot and companion quests take place in their own areas or in Skyhold/Haven.

A lot of them weren't fun for me either. Chasing rams around as a melee surely wasn't fun. However, I understood what I was doing it for,

I understood what we were doing it for just fine.

 

and didn't try to claim it had no context, when context for it is given by the guy Cass suggests you talk to right after you talk to Gisselle. The fault, if there is any, lies with the player that didn't catch, or chose to ignore, Vael, who will give you a rather detailed account of what needs to happen in the Hinterlands, and why.
 Nobody is ignoring Vael, we just feel the quest was poorly presented. "The people are cold and will freeze to death!" yet they're sitting in the middle of a sunny summer meadow with flowers in bloom and more than enough house space to fit everyone. "The people are going to starve!" yet 20 feet outside of town are numerous wild goats, foxes and nugs with no enemies between the town and them. "The mages and templars are terrorizing the people!" yet the only time they actually attack anyone is during the scripted event when you first get to the Hinterlands and they're attacking your soldiers and each other. At least with this one they added some burnt buildings as a visual cue but the village is never attacked, you never have to build up fortifications or protect it. My problem with so many of these side quests is that they "tell" rather than "show."

You mean like 95% of the Deep Roads, or, according to the Origin forums, the Fade in the Circle. I suppose you found the Chanter's Board side quest highly entertaining, since they did have a cutscene, of a Chanter that can't say anything that's not part of the Chant of Light. Except for the time you get to trip him up, once.

What about the deep roads or the fade? I did actually find the part of the chanter's board quest where you can trick the chanter into saying "what" and the little boy will say "oh he cheated!" when he kind of awkwardly recovers with more of the chant. The actual quests for the board were boring fluff but I appreciated that little detail. Not everything has to be grand and epic, but give me something.

Did you play Baldur's Gate at all? In BG 1, there are, for the time, absolutely huge maps that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, but are still quite fun to explore. Every single thing in them was filler. Almost every ambush when world travelling was filler. The expansion pack was nothing but filler, and yet, it was really fun to play, to the tune of over 100 completions by myself, trying every class/MC option and alternate dialog choices.
 I've only played KotOR and on.

Origins must have driven you totally crazy, with all those cutscenes with people talking at your character instead of to them. I'll wait while you type out the usual "but you're supposed to imagine all that dialog being spoken" when even when dialog is spoken, you didn't enjoy it. How did you ever get through Origins, where all of your "emotion" was imaginary?

Though I prefer a voiced protagonist, I didn't mind the silent protagonist of DA:I. I don't need the player character to be emotive, the game can even be in first person since that one character represents me. I don't need the game to show me how I'm saying something or what I'm feeling but I do need other characters that are not me to be fleshed out and emotive at least to some degree. The characters in origins even when crudely animated had emotion on their face and in their voice. I hate the distant, disembodied camera. It gives me a huge disconnect. 

[Kabraxal]

Since when is the Hinterlands tucked away anywhere? A lot of the early game takes place there, and some mid game stuff too, depending on how good you are at fighting dragons.
 By "a lot of the early game" do you mean when we talk to mother Giselle for 2 seconds and immediately send her to Haven, grind 4 power, and if we choose to recruit the mages talk to Dorian in the Chantry and then Fiona in the bar? That was the most plot interaction we got in any of the zones and it was quite minimal. The part where you talk to Alistair/Stroud/Loghain in a cave in Crestwood was really out of place and would have suited the story better if he arrived at Skyhold with Hawke but it felt like they were trying to at least include something of the main plot out in the zones. You can't deny that most of the main plot and companion quests take place in their own areas or in Skyhold/Haven.
A lot of them weren't fun for me either. Chasing rams around as a melee surely wasn't fun. However, I understood what I was doing it for,
I understood what we were doing it for just fine.
 
and didn't try to claim it had no context, when context for it is given by the guy Cass suggests you talk to right after you talk to Gisselle. The fault, if there is any, lies with the player that didn't catch, or chose to ignore, Vael, who will give you a rather detailed account of what needs to happen in the Hinterlands, and why.
 Nobody is ignoring Vael, we just feel the quest was poorly presented. "The people are cold and will freeze to death!" yet they're sitting in the middle of a sunny summer meadow with flowers in bloom and more than enough house space to fit everyone. "The people are going to starve!" yet 20 feet outside of town are numerous wild goats, foxes and nugs with no enemies between the town and them. "The mages and templars are terrorizing the people!" yet the only time they actually attack anyone is during the scripted event when you first get to the Hinterlands and they're attacking your soldiers and each other. At least with this one they added some burnt buildings as a visual cue but the village is never attacked, you never have to build up fortifications or protect it. My problem with so many of these side quests is that they "tell" rather than "show."
You mean like 95% of the Deep Roads, or, according to the Origin forums, the Fade in the Circle. I suppose you found the Chanter's Board side quest highly entertaining, since they did have a cutscene, of a Chanter that can't say anything that's not part of the Chant of Light. Except for the time you get to trip him up, once.
What about the deep roads or the fade? I did actually find the part of the chanter's board quest where you can trick the chanter into saying "what" and the little boy will say "oh he cheated!" when he kind of awkwardly recovers with more of the chant. The actual quests for the board were boring fluff but I appreciated that little detail. Not everything has to be grand and epic, but give me something.

Did you play Baldur's Gate at all? In BG 1, there are, for the time, absolutely huge maps that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, but are still quite fun to explore. Every single thing in them was filler. Almost every ambush when world travelling was filler. The expansion pack was nothing but filler, and yet, it was really fun to play, to the tune of over 100 completions by myself, trying every class/MC option and alternate dialog choices.
 I've only played KotOR and on.
Origins must have driven you totally crazy, with all those cutscenes with people talking at your character instead of to them. I'll wait while you type out the usual "but you're supposed to imagine all that dialog being spoken" when even when dialog is spoken, you didn't enjoy it. How did you ever get through Origins, where all of your "emotion" was imaginary?
Though I prefer a voiced protagonist, I didn't mind the silent protagonist of DA:I. I don't need the player character to be emotive, the game can even be in first person since that one character represents me. I don't need the game to show me how I'm saying something or what I'm feeling but I do need other characters that are not me to be fleshed out and emotive at least to some degree. The characters in origins even when crudely animated had emotion on their face and in their voice. I hate the distant, disembodied camera. It gives me a huge disconnect. 

And yet the shards add details with the skulls and the room you find out how those skulls are made. Or how about the tidbits found in little notes left behind, or bodies found on a cliffside, or beneath one or.... Yeah I can go on. Much of what DA has always done is a subtle flavour tucked away here and there. What you want is a blunt hammer since you seem to have missed much of the little details because Bioware didn't (and has never) flashed a neon "look here is a little detail!" Sign over it. Seriously, the more you post the clearer it becomes that Inquisition isn't the issue... It's your ability to grasp things that don't beat you over the head.

[robertthebard]

Since when is the Hinterlands tucked away anywhere? A lot of the early game takes place there, and some mid game stuff too, depending on how good you are at fighting dragons.
 By "a lot of the early game" do you mean when we talk to mother Giselle for 2 seconds and immediately send her to Haven, grind 4 power, and if we choose to recruit the mages talk to Dorian in the Chantry and then Fiona in the bar? That was the most plot interaction we got in any of the zones and it was quite minimal. The part where you talk to Alistair/Stroud/Loghain in a cave in Crestwood was really out of place and would have suited the story better if he arrived at Skyhold with Hawke but it felt like they were trying to at least include something of the main plot out in the zones. You can't deny that most of the main plot and companion quests take place in their own areas or in Skyhold/Haven.

A lot of them weren't fun for me either. Chasing rams around as a melee surely wasn't fun. However, I understood what I was doing it for,
I understood what we were doing it for just fine.
 
and didn't try to claim it had no context, when context for it is given by the guy Cass suggests you talk to right after you talk to Gisselle. The fault, if there is any, lies with the player that didn't catch, or chose to ignore, Vael, who will give you a rather detailed account of what needs to happen in the Hinterlands, and why.
 Nobody is ignoring Vael, we just feel the quest was poorly presented. "The people are cold and will freeze to death!" yet they're sitting in the middle of a sunny summer meadow with flowers in bloom and more than enough house space to fit everyone. "The people are going to starve!" yet 20 feet outside of town are numerous wild goats, foxes and nugs with no enemies between the town and them. "The mages and templars are terrorizing the people!" yet the only time they actually attack anyone is during the scripted event when you first get to the Hinterlands and they're attacking your soldiers and each other. At least with this one they added some burnt buildings as a visual cue but the village is never attacked, you never have to build up fortifications or protect it. My problem with so many of these side quests is that they "tell" rather than "show."

You mean like 95% of the Deep Roads, or, according to the Origin forums, the Fade in the Circle. I suppose you found the Chanter's Board side quest highly entertaining, since they did have a cutscene, of a Chanter that can't say anything that's not part of the Chant of Light. Except for the time you get to trip him up, once.
What about the deep roads or the fade? I did actually find the part of the chanter's board quest where you can trick the chanter into saying "what" and the little boy will say "oh he cheated!" when he kind of awkwardly recovers with more of the chant. The actual quests for the board were boring fluff but I appreciated that little detail. Not everything has to be grand and epic, but give me something.
Did you play Baldur's Gate at all? In BG 1, there are, for the time, absolutely huge maps that have absolutely nothing to do with the main plot, but are still quite fun to explore. Every single thing in them was filler. Almost every ambush when world travelling was filler. The expansion pack was nothing but filler, and yet, it was really fun to play, to the tune of over 100 completions by myself, trying every class/MC option and alternate dialog choices.
 I've only played KotOR and on.

Origins must have driven you totally crazy, with all those cutscenes with people talking at your character instead of to them. I'll wait while you type out the usual "but you're supposed to imagine all that dialog being spoken" when even when dialog is spoken, you didn't enjoy it. How did you ever get through Origins, where all of your "emotion" was imaginary?
Though I prefer a voiced protagonist, I didn't mind the silent protagonist of DA:I. I don't need the player character to be emotive, the game can even be in first person since that one character represents me. I don't need the game to show me how I'm saying something or what I'm feeling but I do need other characters that are not me to be fleshed out and emotive at least to some degree. The characters in origins even when crudely animated had emotion on their face and in their voice. I hate the distant, disembodied camera. It gives me a huge disconnect. 

There's a little square above the Bold button that, if you click it, will let you separate the posts so that they can be read, as I did with your post while replying.

Despite the difficulty: The idea is to build influence for the Inquisition. You claim you get this, and then "poo poo" it off as if that never happens. There's a lot going on in the Hinterlands, and you can see that in the burnt out villages, or camps of refugees that settle in and then get blown up if you don't clear the area. I guess those NPCs aren't a consequence of doing nothing, however, they are just NPCs. There are 4 agents that you can pick up in the Hinterlands, 3 before you ever go to Val Royeaux, and one after, since it does require you to travel to Redcliffe. Scratch that, make it 5, two of which require you going to Redcliffe. That's a rather significant boost to the Inquisition, early, to dismiss out of hand.

You should check out the BGEE thing at Gog.com. BG is a classic, to this day, if a bit dated now.

Did you know that one of the more popular mods for Origins let you skip the Fade sequence entirely? People found it much like I imagine you found the Hissing Wastes, an area I absolutely loved. "Sand is just dirt, that got it wrong." Sera The Deep Roads had one relevant map, that required you to navigate through several others to reach, barring the one Thaig for Shale. A whole lot of gratuitous violence, for the sake of gratuitous violence, with absolutely no relevance to why you were there.

I played a ton of games with silent protagonists, but once I played a voiced protagonist, I find it really hard to go back.

[Orian Tabris]

I just want some minor/side quests to have dialogue options that allow me to expand on my characters' personalities, preferences and opinions.

 

I don't mind if there are simple find an item or two, and give/return said item/s, quests. However, if there are multiple large scale areas, I'd prefer if I didn't have to go from one to another to complete a simple quest; like collecting felandaris in late-game Emprise du Lion, and then having to go back to early-game the Hinterlands to complete it (hurts my OC need to complete everything in one area before moving on).

[Steelcan]

The difference between TW3 and DA:I's side content is just so plain


Sure there are still frtch quests with no branching options but then there's quests like the ones with Keira Metz, the various Witcher contracts all with their own twists and things to explore, the assassination of Radovid, the succession on Skellige, the fate of Temeria, and even little things like the small little encounters that just serve to help build the world.

It also differentiates its collectible material from side missions. In DA:I the side missions often take the form of hunting down random treasures or something similar, and the TW3 has very similar missions with the treasure hunts, the difference being that these are not the meat if the side content.

DA:I has good side content as well, but it's not nearly on the same volume or even quality.

Let's take the assassination of Radovid as an example and compare it to a comparable mission in DA:Ilets say Blackwall's personal mission as it is one of the few to offer divergent paths.

In TW3 the assassination plotline covers several missions over the three acts, uncovering the Redanian and Temerian spies, working with them and getting their backing, meeting Radovid, hunting down the blind sorceress whose name escapes me, preparing the assassination and then picking between the conspirators to throw your support behind resulting in different end States.

In DA:I Blackwall's mission fires after the two story missions, Adamant fortress and the Ball, are completed. It offers several divergent paths to get to the final judgement but no combat, only one mission, and limited interaction for the methods used to bring in Blackwall.

If you feel that this comparison is unfair, please do point me in the direction if a non DLC, non Story mission in DA:I that offers up the same options and content as the assassination if Radovid in TW3 which is entirely optional.

[Kabraxal]

I just want some minor/side quests to have dialogue options that allow me to expand on my characters' personalities, preferences and opinions.
 
I don't mind if there are simple find an item or two, and give/return said item/s, quests. However, if there are multiple large scale areas, I'd prefer if I didn't have to go from one to another to complete a simple quest; like collecting felandaris in late-game Emprise du Lion, and then having to go back to early-game the Hinterlands to complete it (hurts my OC need to complete everything in one area before moving on).

But there are... Several possible agents have dialogue options (one I didn't know was agent capable til my third run), a mage in the western approach gives you options and a possible judgement, the desire demon, one of those tempted by said demon, the woman you can judge offers flavour dialogue.... There are lots of moments like that in just the initial releasw... DLC adds more.

[Steelcan]

But there are... Several possible agents have dialogue options (one I didn't know was agent capable til my third run), a mage in the western approach gives you options and a possible judgement, the desire demon, one of those tempted by said demon, the woman you can judge offers flavour dialogue.... There are lots of moments like that in just the initial releasw... DLC adds more.

Most of the side content doesn't really offer you such options though, theres no way to bend the narrative of Suledin Keep in any way, it will always play out the same. Theres no way to develop your Inquisitior by finding ram meat.

These kinds of quests, the ones with no real dialogue variance and minimal if any impact on the game world are the rule, not the exception to DA:I's side content

[robertthebard]

Most of the side content doesn't really offer you such options though, theres no way to bend the narrative of Suledin Keep in any way, it will always play out the same. Theres no way to develop your Inquisitior by finding ram meat.

These kinds of quests, the ones with no real dialogue variance and minimal if any impact on the game world are the rule, not the exception to DA:I's side content

This is just wrong. "finding ram meat" does indeed develop your Herald. It can be one of the things you do to gain the Power you need. In fact, doing that, and chasing blankets for the refugees can give you all the power you need to go to Val Royeaux, if you open the camps you find along the way. This is developing your Herald into what will become the Inquisitor.

[Kabraxal]

Most of the side content doesn't really offer you such options though, theres no way to bend the narrative of Suledin Keep in any way, it will always play out the same. Theres no way to develop your Inquisitior by finding ram meat.
These kinds of quests, the ones with no real dialogue variance and minimal if any impact on the game world are the rule, not the exception to DA:I's side content

And yet the companion quests, judgements, and those quests all add up... Dismissals, nudges, and judgements can make the state of the immediate party/skyhold quite different. Any one quest as "long" as Radovid? Probably not, but all together DA: I matches TW3. And really, much of the "diverting options" boil down to the last real choice in the Witcher quests. Much like DA, the world isn't that immediately or drastically altered. The epilogoues are where any real world altering scenarios play out. And I think you forget we have not seen the full impact of these choices since this franchise is ongoing. Hell, some minor events in Origins ended up having some outcomes that added some amazing detail in this game. Something that TW always struggled with... We only finally got a Shani appearance after two full games. You'd think TW2's choices would have mattered more too. But some flavour changes at least.

Every game can't be Alpha Protocol. That stomps TW3 and DA into the ground. I think New Vegas might be the only competition in that regard. And sadly means no sequels probably. Too many differences to account for.