Aller au contenu

Photo

Article on the nature of modern RPG side quests


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
609 réponses à ce sujet

#26
MaxQuartiroli

MaxQuartiroli
  • Members
  • 3 123 messages

There is no "optional" content when by doing only the main quest you will miss:

 

- conversation options

- knowledge

- best armors and best weapons

- NPCs

and so on...

 

I know that you can ALWAYS complete the game (every game) if you do only the main quest, but the question is "how do you complete the game?".

Maybe I will be able to complete the main quest but instead of having the option "Kill A" or "Give A the object that you found in that side quest" you will have only the option to "Kill A". Is that really "optional" content? Until the day they will make the so called "optional" content "VERY SUPERFLUOUS" I will refuse to consider it "optional", and I will consider it still part of the main game.

 

The only otional (superflous) things in DA:I, at least to me, are the cosmetic ones, i.e. collections.


  • Bhryaen aime ceci

#27
Reighto

Reighto
  • Members
  • 113 messages

The arguments i hate the most: " Don't like it? Don't play it! " or: " Prefer that game? Go play that game! ".


  • Guitar-Hero, Nefla, BansheeOwnage et 3 autres aiment ceci

#28
AFA

AFA
  • Members
  • 173 messages

PoE occasionally lets you kick a quest giver's ass and take the item/info you wanted instead of doing their fetch quest. Also had a lot of moral ambiguity in some quests.

 

More people should take a page out of the defunct Cavia's playbook and actively troll completionists. Drakengard and Nier actually gave you the worst endings in the game for collecting the most stuff. This apparently stemmed from their hatred of tacked-on side quests.



#29
sjsharp2011

sjsharp2011
  • Members
  • 2 676 messages

When I buy a game its for the play value and not to rush through the game regardless how many times I played it simply because I usually find something I didn't know or as in DA:I new areas.

 

As a example.. Last week I was playing FF 12 while on a hunt I found a secrete room I never found before even after several dozen play throughs of that game.

yeah playing FF13 on PC and I'm finding Gran Pulse a huge massive place in Chapter 11 done the first 9 missions in that place and couldn't find mission 10 so I decdided to move on a bit with the story. Not a huge FF fan but I've got to admit I've thoroughly enjoyed playing ff13 and will likely come back and do so again after I'm finished it. I've got 13-2 and Lightning Returns as well  but haven't got around to playing those yet.



#30
Heimdall

Heimdall
  • Members
  • 13 220 messages

The arguments i hate the most: " Don't like it? Don't play it! " or: " Prefer that game? Go play that game! ".

Eh, I think that last one has some validity, at least when it comes to people complaining about one game chiefly because it isn't another game they like better.


  • Dabrikishaw et Ms. Sarsaparilla aiment ceci

#31
TheKomandorShepard

TheKomandorShepard
  • Members
  • 8 489 messages

Dai side quest are horrible there is almost no interaction with quest givers and people involved in quests, interaction is limited to only taking quest and receiving reward with no room to rp and choice, on top of that side quests are not very interesting.Previous DA games in contrast allowed you to interact with many quest givers like sympathizing with them or just be unsympathetic toward them, same for other people that were involved in quest but game also allowed you to end quest in multiple ways. 

 

The only exception to that in Inquistion are companion and adviser quests and that is less than dozen somewhat engaging side quest, what is less than skyrim that had nice amount interesting side content like guilds , civil-war and Daedric quests.  


  • Nefla, Darkstarr11, SharpWalkers et 1 autre aiment ceci

#32
Donquijote and 59 others

Donquijote and 59 others
  • Members
  • 994 messages

 

The only exception to that in Inquistion are companion and adviser quests and that is less than dozen somewhat engaging side quest, what is less than skyrim that had nice amount interesting side content like guilds , civil-war and Daedric quests.  

Skyrim side quests are better than DAI sidequests....


  • Nefla aime ceci

#33
Bhryaen

Bhryaen
  • Members
  • 1 082 messages

Dai side quest are horrible there is almost no interaction with quest givers and people involved in quests, interaction is limited to only taking quest and receiving reward with no room to rp and choice, on top of that side quests are not very interesting.Previous DA games in contrast allowed you to interact with many quest givers like sympathizing with them or just be unsympathetic toward them, same for other people that were involved in quest but game also allowed you to end quest in multiple ways. 

 

The only exception to that in Inquistion are companion and adviser quests and that is less than dozen somewhat engaging side quest, what is less than skyrim that had nice amount interesting side content like guilds , civil-war and Daedric quests.  

I disagree on Skyrim- found it very dull as a game and couldn't finish it- but otherwise, yes, the only "side"/optional content in DAI that's up to the standard set by TW3 are the companion/advisor quests. Or at least they're the example of what Bioware did right in providing content for DAI's encounter experiences. If they'd left out all the hours and hours worth of other drudgery (that so many of us do anyway) and just extended those quests further, it would've actually been a fuller game that never seems to drop the ball on content. The only comparable smaller-scale side adventure that exists in DAI outside the companion/advisor ones is the brief but quality encounter in JoH called "Loss of a Friend" where you actually get an adventure, a cutscene, a fuller interaction, and a meaningful choice that will depend on the sort of character you're roleplaying. And that's it. The rest of the side-quests are filler.

 

So the argument isn't "But I'm a completionist. Please cater to me!" The argument is, "If you're going to make content, settle for no half-assery." If the content in non-essential questing is high quality, engaging, and meaningful for the player's/character's experience, even a non-completionist might be intrigued to explore all you've created. If it's a matter of limited resources that they couldn't make the plethora of smaller-scale quests more than mechanical busywork, fine: then don't do them! Or just scale back on them to the extent that enables you to give them the proper narrative strength. It's not enough to just say, "Well, we couldn't do more of X, so here's x-lite." I doubt anyone would've faulted the devs for providing less empty hill combing and more interesting content (at least not anyone who's putting quality first). Unless the devs were intentionally going for a more MMO-like cheap-and-easy encounter feel, in which case making the main campaign multiplayer might have helped. But the DAverse is narrative-rich, not lending itself well to Assassin's Creed repetitiveness where you do one mission, feels cool taking over a ship or knifing two unsuspecting guards simultaneously, and then you're told, "Now just do that same formula for the next 40+hrs." It's similar in DAI. "Ooh! Spooky mansion to explore!" Busywork happens, then kill a sub-boss."Next!" A lot of anti-climactics are built into DAI's repetitive side narratives. I'm not even a fan of DA2, but even there you had side-quests that never felt half-assed the way DAI's do, and DA2 was rushed!

 

I hate that I'm now finding myself saying, at least regarding side-quest construction, "Be more like TW3." It'd help anyway, and it's really the sort of thing DAO already did, just on a smaller scale than TW3 did. CD Projekt is simply "doing DA's thing" better than Bioware at this point. But short of emulating TW3, go back to your own roots. BG1 was chock full of really short side quests that were nevertheless memorable, imaginative, and very worth getting involved in- many not letting you not be involved if you stumbled into them- and most of which helping the player decide just the sort of character they were playing. A great DA4 can be made that way without even attempting to "do TW3." I'm pretty sure BG1/NWN/DAO/DA2's side quests weren't anywhere near as elaborate as TW3 stuff (haven't played it yet to know), but that's far beyond the colorless, purely-mechanical encounters we're getting in DAI's backwoods. For me it stifles DAI's replayability: do I have the stamina to stomach so many more hours of half-assed content to manage another playthrough? Just being honest...


  • vbibbi, Elista, Nefla et 2 autres aiment ceci

#34
BansheeOwnage

BansheeOwnage
  • Members
  • 11 198 messages

Eh, I think that last one has some validity, at least when it comes to people complaining about one game chiefly because it isn't another game they like better.

Well, there is a difference between saying "Oh my god why isn't this game a copy of my X game?!" and "I liked how X game handled these aspects, and wish this one used similar methods." Especially when X game is one in the same series or made by the same developer.

 

And keep in mind, a lot of the complaining on here is from passionate fans who are complaining because they love the game(s), and want them to be better, badly. Obviously not all of it, but still.


  • vbibbi, Nefla, Bhryaen et 1 autre aiment ceci

#35
Toasted Llama

Toasted Llama
  • Members
  • 1 469 messages

The arguments i hate the most: " Don't like it? Don't play it! " or: " Prefer that game? Go play that game! ".

 

.... But that is exactly how supply-demand works. In theory, if every consumer worked like that, it forces the developers/publishers to keep their games at the top level in order to fight the competition and make a profit. If the consumer keeps blindly purchasing the (shitty) products that the developer/publisher is bringing to the market and they keep making a profit, why would they stop or change whatever they're doing?



#36
Guitar-Hero

Guitar-Hero
  • Members
  • 1 085 messages

This article was awesome.


  • vbibbi, Elista et wright1978 aiment ceci

#37
CronoDragoon

CronoDragoon
  • Members
  • 10 408 messages

OK, but then how come I see so many completionists complaining about the results of their own playstyle? Say, requisitions, or hunting rams, or mosaics, etc.


Someone can be a completionist and also dislike cheap fetch quests. It's not a contradictory position to ask for a game that contains only "Grissom Academy" - level side quests and still say you're a completionist. This is actually why ME2 and ME3 are two of my favorite BioWare games: they have a great length (30-35 hours) and only a few hours tops of fetching or grinding.
  • Hiemoth, vbibbi, wright1978 et 2 autres aiment ceci

#38
Heimdall

Heimdall
  • Members
  • 13 220 messages

Well, there is a difference between saying "Oh my god why isn't this game a copy of my X game?!" and "I liked how X game handled these aspects, and wish this one used similar methods." Especially when X game is one in the same series or made by the same developer.

And keep in mind, a lot of the complaining on here is from passionate fans who are complaining because they love the game(s), and want them to be better, badly. Obviously not all of it, but still.

True, but sometimes people complain because they like how another type of game altogether, like Skyrim, handled it. And sometimes the things they point to have more to do with the type of game than a particular flaw.

#39
SonnyKohler

SonnyKohler
  • Members
  • 111 messages

Why would wanting to get the most out of something be a terrible thing?

You haven't met my other 1/2.  You really don't want to get the most out of that cooking.  Bleh!



#40
SonnyKohler

SonnyKohler
  • Members
  • 111 messages

The arguments i hate the most: " Don't like it? Don't play it! " or: " Prefer that game? Go play that game! ".

Why do you hate the argument?  It's just common sense.



#41
SonnyKohler

SonnyKohler
  • Members
  • 111 messages

.... But that is exactly how supply-demand works. In theory, if every consumer worked like that, it forces the developers/publishers to keep their games at the top level in order to fight the competition and make a profit. If the consumer keeps blindly purchasing the (shitty) products that the developer/publisher is bringing to the market and they keep making a profit, why would they stop or change whatever they're doing?

You realize that supply & demand is a bunch of hooey, don't you?  The developers will make a game and people will buy it.  It doesn't matter.  They will make a profit, regardless.  As someone who's been in the game a long time, I can say, from experience, that:  Consumers are stupid.

 

Sorry.  But it's the truth.



#42
LightningPoodle

LightningPoodle
  • Members
  • 20 468 messages

Why would wanting to get the most out of something be a terrible thing?

 

I find that, in large games like Skyrim or The Witcher, I have to complete everything. If a quest should bug out and, even though on completion the quest doesn't register as complete - I play on consoles - I feel like I can no longer "complete" the game. Many a time I have restarted Skyrim, simply because of a misc quest not disappearing from the quest log when I complete it.


  • BansheeOwnage aime ceci

#43
SharpWalkers

SharpWalkers
  • Members
  • 234 messages

The article is absolutely spot on. As is that article from a year ago the authors links to at the beginning. 


  • vbibbi et wright1978 aiment ceci

#44
BansheeOwnage

BansheeOwnage
  • Members
  • 11 198 messages

I find that, in large games like Skyrim or The Witcher, I have to complete everything. If a quest should bug out and, even though on completion the quest doesn't register as complete - I play on consoles - I feel like I can no longer "complete" the game. Many a time I have restarted Skyrim, simply because of a misc quest not disappearing from the quest log when I complete it.

Yeah, I feel like that too whenever I get a bugged quest.



#45
AFA

AFA
  • Members
  • 173 messages

A good sidequest should have some choices and an emotional hook or two. The Lighthouse Lady questline in Nier or the Noble vs. Skaen Cult in Pillars of Eternity for example.

 

The new Shadowrun games have excellent sidequests with their optional runs. So many solutions.


  • vbibbi et Nefla aiment ceci

#46
wright1978

wright1978
  • Members
  • 8 113 messages
A very good article with which I heartily agree with pretty much every word. Dai's side quests were appalling. Really hope in future they take the time to invest in quality in this area.
  • vbibbi, Elista, Nefla et 2 autres aiment ceci

#47
Toasted Llama

Toasted Llama
  • Members
  • 1 469 messages

You realize that supply & demand is a bunch of hooey, don't you?  The developers will make a game and people will buy it.  It doesn't matter.  They will make a profit, regardless.  As someone who's been in the game a long time, I can say, from experience, that:  Consumers are stupid.

 

Sorry.  But it's the truth.

 

.... That's exactly what I said... "If the consumer keeps blindly purchasing the (shitty) products that the developer/publisher is bringing to the market and they keep making a profit, why would they stop or change whatever they're doing?"

 

I know it's a bunch of hooey, that's why it's so hilariously stupid when the consumer complains when they're being told that if they don't buy it, there's plenty of other products available for them to purchase and support. Which is why I made the reply in the first place.



#48
Fiery Phoenix

Fiery Phoenix
  • Members
  • 18 939 messages

In my humble opinion, Witcher 2/3 and Deux Ex: Human Rev. are the only recent RPGs I've played that absolutely nailed side-quests. BioWare has yet to impress me as much in that department.

 

Considering the feedback so far, I'd hope they've learned a few lessons that will hopefully be implemented in future installments, whether they be Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or other titles.


  • Guitar-Hero, Nefla, wright1978 et 1 autre aiment ceci

#49
Jaulen

Jaulen
  • Members
  • 2 271 messages

Re: the druffalo as an extra companion fort he fade rift fight....

 

(quote doesn't seem to be working for me)

 

 

I did that by accident once, made the fight so much easier......


  • Dai Grepher aime ceci

#50
Reighto

Reighto
  • Members
  • 113 messages

Eh, I think that last one has some validity, at least when it comes to people complaining about one game chiefly because it isn't another game they like better.

Like Banshee said, i meant people who genuinely want to give feedback or constructive criticism and are still told to bugger off. Sadly there are many who just want to bash the game.

 

Why do you hate the argument?  It's just common sense.

I don't simply drop something if there are things not to my liking or a problem. I try to fix it (in this case give feedback). I am a huge fan of the Dragon Age Series and i want them to improve. Wasn't to fond of DAI but i had to play it an see what it has to offer and if i like it.

 

.... That's exactly what I said... "If the consumer keeps blindly purchasing the (shitty) products that the developer/publisher is bringing to the market and they keep making a profit, why would they stop or change whatever they're doing?"

 

I know it's a bunch of hooey, that's why it's so hilariously stupid when the consumer complains when they're being told that if they don't buy it, there's plenty of other products available for them to purchase and support. Which is why I made the reply in the first place.

Since there are games that improved although being bought a lot, this doesn't apply to every developer. I know that there are games like Assassin's Creed which improved nearly none over the years and people still bought them like crazy. I didn't "blindly" purchase DAI, i checked reviews, gameplay videos and every news beforehand and sadly still got disappointed. There is nothing like playing the game for yourself and experiencing it. Granted i'll be more cautious for the next Dragon Age but i'll probably buy it someday because there is always hope. Ah yes and thanks for calling me stupid i think :D


  • vbibbi et BansheeOwnage aiment ceci