83 réponses à ce sujet

[abaris]

Exploration's fine, as long as it isn't tied to the obviously inevitable mutliplayer and if there's a story and character interaction to go with that.

[Linkenski]

Exploration is just a selling point. Of course, story will always be the driving force of BioWare games. I just hope the exploration is implemented well. I'm not really worried about the quality of the story, besides whether it's a trilogy arc or just a standalone game.

Story was such a driving force for Dragon Age "then this happened and then this happened" Inquisition

[echoness]

Exploration doesn't have to conflict with story. Deus Ex: HR did quite a good job. Almost every side quest has a connection to the main story. And Dark Souls, you find a item while exploring and it explains background of the boss you are going to fight. I hope devs will pull that off in ME:A.

[Killroy]

Exploration in gaming is quickly becoming "exploration." Dragon Age:Inquisition is the perfect example. Lots of big maps with varied and aesthetically pleasing landscapes, but nothing to do in them, making them pointless. To do exploration right you clearly have to sacrifice things like overarching narrative and compelling character development, which are the things BioWare needs to focus on. Making things more generic(like a Bethesda game) to accommodate exploration is the exact wrong thing for them to do.

[Revan Reborn]

Story was such a driving force for Dragon Age "then this happened and then this happened" Inquisition

DAI was a huge experiment for BioWare. Not only did it allow them to test new hardware, but it also allowed them to really tinker with a lot of new concepts and features they had never really done before, or at least not in a while. Overall, I enjoyed DAI, but it was was definitely a mixed bag. I'm hoping Montreal received quality feedback from Edmonton with regards to what to do and what not to do in an open world setting. This game has been in development for so long that hopefully they had ample time to really consider feedback and improve MEA for the better.

[Midnight Bliss]

DAI was a huge experiment for BioWare. Not only did it allow them to test new hardware, but it also allowed them to really tinker with a lot of new concepts and features they had never really done before, or at least not in a while. Overall, I enjoyed DAI, but it was was definitely a mixed bag. I'm hoping Montreal received quality feedback from Edmonton with regards to what to do and what not to do in an open world setting. This game has been in development for so long that hopefully they had ample time to really consider feedback and improve MEA for the better.

I don't want to Mass Effect to be soured by becoming Bioware's next Frankenstein monster.

 

please papi don't let it be so

[slimgrin]

Everyone assumes they're going open world. They haven't said that. They said they're going with bigger maps and better exploration. I'm all good with that, because I fired up ME2 for the feels last night, and I think I have every place memorized despite having last played it years ago. Their level design in that game was abysmal. 

[Revan Reborn]

I don't want to Mass Effect to be soured by becoming Bioware's next Frankenstein monster.

 

please papi don't let it be so

I don't think this will happen as DAI was the guinea pig. From what we know, it seems MEA is relying more on old concepts from ME1 rather than just flat out experimenting. Of course, if the leaks were in anyway credible, there could be more DAI features in this game than people would likely want.

 

Everyone assumes they're going open world. They haven't said that. They said they're going with bigger maps and better exploration. I'm all good with that, because I fired up ME2 for the feels last night, and I think I have every place memorized despite having last played it years ago. Their level design in that game was abysmal. 

It will be as "open world" as ME1 at the very least with the inclusion of the mako. More than likely, planets will be much more larger than what they were in ME1, so yeah I'm expecting them to be rather huge. If they weren't, bringing the mako back wouldn't make a lot of sense if planets were so small.

[Sanunes]

DAI was a huge experiment for BioWare. Not only did it allow them to test new hardware, but it also allowed them to really tinker with a lot of new concepts and features they had never really done before, or at least not in a while. Overall, I enjoyed DAI, but it was was definitely a mixed bag. I'm hoping Montreal received quality feedback from Edmonton with regards to what to do and what not to do in an open world setting. This game has been in development for so long that hopefully they had ample time to really consider feedback and improve MEA for the better.

 

I do agree that Inquisition was a mixed bag, it had elements I liked and disliked.  There were zones I definitely liked and disliked as well, but I found the smaller scope zones were better for there was a balance between exploration and story.

 

I think part of the problem as well is that people kept talking about how Dragon Age: Origins was open world and Dragon Age II wasn't, but BioWare needed to go open world with the next game and there were plenty of comparisons between Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls at that time both by players and the "professional websites".  So I can see why BioWare moved to an open world style game because that is the impression of what people wanted until BioWare said they were looking at Skyrim you didn't see people having a discussion about open world.  I can see the next game being so anti-open world that there will be complaints about how BioWare must go open world again.  Its a cycle and both BioWare and us aren't learning from the past and are doomed to repeat it.

[CirusTheVirus666]

I totally agree with OP, I hope its a LONG story with tons of exploration. For example, my first play through ME2 was 38 hours and it went by too fast, each play through got longer and longer. I hope ME:A has at least 40 hours of story and 60 hours of exploration; then I would be happy and satisfied. When I played DA:I, sorry for comparison, it took me 86 hours on my first play through, but it felt like 12-15 hours of story and 70 hours of exploration. I hope ME:A sticks to the long story telling of the previous ME games that came before it.

[Revan Reborn]

I do agree that Inquisition was a mixed bag, it had elements I liked and disliked.  There were zones I definitely liked and disliked as well, but I found the smaller scope zones were better for there was a balance between exploration and story.

 

I think part of the problem as well is that people kept talking about how Dragon Age: Origins was open world and Dragon Age II wasn't, but BioWare needed to go open world with the next game and there were plenty of comparisons between Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls at that time both by players and the "professional websites".  So I can see why BioWare moved to an open world style game because that is the impression of what people wanted until BioWare said they were looking at Skyrim you didn't see people having a discussion about open world.  I can see the next game being so anti-open world that there will be complaints about how BioWare must go open world again.  Its a cycle and both BioWare and us aren't learning from the past and are doomed to repeat it.

It's also worth mentioning that BioWare did have an interest in tackling a more open world game themselves. The doctors mentioned how they'd like to return to an open world format that was similar to Baldur's Gate. With respect to Skyrim, BioWare even saw that game as a crowning achievement of RPGs, so they definitely were watching it and trying to learn how to make that formula work for DAI. Unlike Skyrim, however, DAI's world wasn't very dynamic or lively. For the most part, it was just static, empty zones with some stuff thrown in because BioWare didn't know what to do.

 

I honestly don't believe they'll turn away from a more open world style at this point. I think they will continue to work on refining the open world format until they finally know what they are doing. I'm fairly optimistic that MEA will do a decent job of exploration as BioWare should have learned from ME1 as well as DAI. We'll have to wait and see though.

[Sanunes]

It's also worth mentioning that BioWare did have an interest in tackling a more open world game themselves. The doctors mentioned how they'd like to return to an open world format that was similar to Baldur's Gate. With respect to Skyrim, BioWare even saw that game as a crowing achievement of RPGs, so they definitely were watching it and try to learn how to make that formula work for DAI. Unlike Skyrim, however, DAI's world wasn't very dynamic or lively. For the most part, it was just static, empty zones with some stuff thrown in because BioWare didn't know what to do.

 

I honestly don't believe they'll turn away from a more open world style at this point. I think they will continue to work on refining the open world format until they finally know what they are doing. I'm fairly optimistic that MEA will do a decent job of exploration as BioWare should have learned from ME1 as well as DAI. We'll have to wait and see though.

 

Fair enough.

 

Going back and looking at some of the old presentations for Inquisition I did see it mentioned they wanted a 20 hour game for those that wanted it and a 100 hour game for those that wanted that. Which could have lead to the aspects of the game I see a lot of people that didn't like.  So maybe just changing that one philosophy would be a good start for any future game.

[Revan Reborn]

Fair enough.

 

Going back and looking at some of the old presentations for Inquisition I did see it mentioned they wanted a 20 hour game for those that wanted it and a 100 hour game for those that wanted that. Which could have lead to the aspects of the game I see a lot of people that didn't like.  So maybe just changing that one philosophy would be a good start for any future game.

Probably. I think when you have an approach to game design where you make a game that can be 20 hours long or 100 hours depending on the player, most of that 80 hour content is going to be fluff and not very compelling. I think that's where DAI fell short because it really felt like a 20 hour game with a lot of pointless content that wasn't implemented well.

 

There's nothing wrong with just having a long, ambitious game. TW3 had 50 hours of main story and 50 hours of side content. I never felt that any of the side content was just stale or boring. Although, exploration did get old after a certain amount of time, especially due to how leveling was handled and not being able to kill certain mobs.

 

I really hope MEA doesn't make the mistake of the main story being short and incredibly linear, while planetary exploration is just fluff and largely meaningless.

[goishen]

I hope they do a story with a heavy emphasis on exploration.  I wanna be entertained first of all, discover new worlds second of all.  One without the other is not much of anything.

[Guanxii]

I'm not quite as enamored with the Witcher 3 as many on here but TW3 surely puts to bed any serious debate about exploration and storytelling trade-offs - we have conclusive proof now that you can have both BioWare quality storytelling and Bethesda quality exploration and then some on a budget. The bar has been raised on both fronts. Over to you BioWare, show em who's boss.

[Silvery]

Well, I mean it depends on what they mean by exploration. They could be talking about a big open world game in the form of GTA, Witcher 3, Fallout, Elder Scrolls. All of these games (can't count Fallout 4, have not beat the story yet) in my opinion had a good to great story. Though I would say that a huge open world does have to usually dilute the story more and make it seem less important since you can spend hours/days between story missions exploring. 

 

If I had to guess I would say they mean exploration in a improved Mass Effect 1 style, going around on the mako and exploring uncharted planets and doing missions there, but not necessarily in a massive open world sandbox way. 

[Drakoriz]

Exploration and Story both can coexist.

 

What they saying about exploration is like alot of ppl point out a selling point. Story can take a game so far. Like DA2 the story isnt bad but u spend the whole game on the same map over and over and over. And that get tired. U have the other extreme DA I, where u have maps that feel super disconnect to explore.

 

I guess ME cant be compare to DA bc they take a different approach. What i think now exploration will be more like ME 1 with the make but improve with the new graphics.

 

Dont worries Bioware will not droop the story, any game from DA or ME are story drive games. And no open game like Fallout or ES.

[Drakoriz]

I'm not quite as enamored with the Witcher 3 as many on here but TW3 surely puts to bed any serious debate about exploration and storytelling trade-offs - we have conclusive proof now that you can have both BioWare quality storytelling and Bethesda quality exploration and then some on a budget. The bar has been raised on both fronts. Over to you BioWare, show em who's boss.

 

Witcher 3 exploration is horrible. I mean the maps are beautiful but they are fill with nothing interesting outside the quest zones. There is no ruins or "dungeons" to explore. Just open areas with chest or monster nest.

[Guanxii]

Witcher 3 exploration is horrible. I mean the maps are beautiful but they are fill with nothing interesting outside the quest zones. There is no ruins or "dungeons" to explore. Just open areas with chest or monster nest.

Aside from lack of dungeons and variety of woodland shacks there's plenty of massive unique towns and islands with castles and varied creature encounters, variety of environments and secondary questing is far beyond skyrim. ambient NPC animation and voice acting was better too. It might not be a true open world and it does have it's drawbacks but you can't say story affected exploration or vice versa and there aren't many better examples of either storytelling or exploration this gen IMO.

[Drakoriz]

Aside from lack of dungeons and variety of woodland shacks there's plenty of massive unique towns with castles and varied creature encounters, variety of environments and secondary questing is far beyond skyrim. ambient NPC animation and voice acting was better too.

 

Yeah but when it come down to "exploration", u want to explore and discover new areas. Most on the withcer 3 in on the road. Cities or towns act as quest hubs.

 

U will never discover a quest that is away in a hiding ruin or a destroy castle.

 

That something Witcher 3 dont do really well. If u want quest u go to towns or the 2 main cities. And alot of towns are just empty of ponts of stop to sell items.

 

True exploration on Witcher it let for colectives and that mean Marks on the minimap those are just chest. Or monsters nest. After the 2 map u did that complet it become boring.

 

And i really wont debate the variety of creature encounter and enviroments. bc those are really limited to, Most creature like Gryphos do the same animation attack (plus fire or poison spit), there u have gosh style, wolf style and mini human style. Edit: oops forgot the Harpies style ones.

Sirens act as Drowner inside water, and u kill both the same with crossbow. (while is the worst point for me on the Witcher 3 shooting a crossbow underwater)

 

And there isnt much variation of environment on Witcher outside the 2 main zones that are the Isle and Novigrad. Well maybe the witcher fortress but u spend it there.

 

Im not saying Witcher 3 story isnt better that Skyrim, but exploration part isnt better. There isnt better satisfaction on a exploration game when u discover a secret ruin under a waterfall or behind a secret wall.

[Guanxii]

Yeah but when it come down to "exploration", u want to explore and discover new areas. Most on the withcer 3 in on the road. Cities or towns act as quest hubs.

U will never discover a quest that is away in a hiding ruin or a destroy castle.

That something Witcher 3 dont do really well. If u want quest u go to towns or the 2 main cities. And alot of towns are just empty of ponts of stop to sell items.

True exploration on Witcher it let for colectives and that mean Marks on the minimap those are just chest. Or monsters nest. After the 2 map u did that complet it become boring.

And i really wont debate the variety of creature encounter and enviroments. bc those are really limited to, Most creature like Gryphos do the same animation attack (plus fire or poison spit), there u have gosh style, wolf style and mini human style. Edit: oops forgot the Harpies style ones.
Sirens act as Drowner inside water, and u kill both the same with crossbow. (while is the worst point for me on the Witcher 3 shooting a crossbow underwater)

And there isnt much variation of environment on Witcher outside the 2 main zones that are the Isle and Novigrad. Well maybe the witcher fortress but u spend it there.

Im not saying Witcher 3 story isnt better that Skyrim, but exploration part isnt better. There isnt better satisfaction on a exploration game when u discover a secret ruin under a waterfall or behind a secret wall.

All Valid criticisms of tw3 and defences of skyrim and Beth. To even have this conversation is a remarkable testament in it's self given the disparity in resources and the fact that tw3 is their very first attempt at a pseudo open world game which managed to improve on Beth's opus in some areas. If BioWare can match cd then we'll all be very happy this holiday.

Speaking of Bethesda of late FO4 felt like a bit of a regression personally as it was a relatively small map which felt really empty, tiny hub world, fewer quests and If they have to create a new engine next time I fear another oblivion is on the cards after a massive wait.

[Drakoriz]

All Valid criticisms of tw3 and defences of skyrim and Beth. To even have this conversation is a remarkable testament in it's self given the disparity in resources and the fact that tw3 is their very first attempt at a pseudo open world game. If BioWare can match cd then we'll all be very happy this holiday.

Speaking of Bethesda of late FO4 felt like a bit of a regression personally as it was a relatively small map which felt really empty, tiny hub world, fewer quests and If they have to create a new engine next time I fear another oblivion is on the cards after a massive wait.

 

definetly i mean i really looking forward to see what CDproyect improve and change on Ciberpunk. Bc Ciberpunk isnt a focus on 1 dude story (well they can make it) but is base on a RPG tabletop game. So i really looking forward to see how different both games will be.

 

Fallout 4 have alot of pros and crons. For me the biggest problem was dialogue. While i really enjoy the exploration on it and the focus on versatility some of the new "dungeons have"

[Guanxii]

definetly i mean i really looking forward to see what CDproyect improve and change on Ciberpunk. Bc Ciberpunk isnt a focus on 1 dude story (well they can make it) but is base on a RPG tabletop game. So i really looking forward to see how different both games will be.

Fallout 4 have alot of pros and crons. For me the biggest problem was dialogue. While i really enjoy the exploration on it and the focus on versatility some of the new "dungeons have"

The only problem I had with their implementation of the dialogue wheel was how railroad-y it was - not even a pretence of illusion of choice- they didn't learn any lessons from BW's past mistakes of 10 years. DX:HR did it best. Also looking toward to cyberpunk.

[Riven326]

We keep hearing or reading about leaks for Mass Effect Andromeda.  A lot of them state that is game is going to have a heavy emphasis on exploration.  Don't get me wrong, I love games in which I can explore.  But I also love a well done story.  I know they are keeping the story clutched close to their hearts.  But wouldn't they think, fans of Mass Effect (or BioWare in general) would also care and want/prefer such a heavy emphasis on story?

 

Granted, we know nothing, and exploration may just be a key selling point right now... But please, I don't want to be able to just explore, and a weak main story that doesn't hold up.

They're bringing back exploration after almost a ten year absence. It's going to be a big selling point for the game and it doesn't automatically mean the story will be hindered as a result. Bioware's writers will probably screw that up all on their own.

[Vortex13]

I am really looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077, not only because I'm a fan of the RPG system, and because I enjoy science fiction over fantasy, but because it will have multiplayer.

 

 

If CDPR can create a game as open and engaging as the witcher, while at the same time incorporating a deep and engaging co-op experience I will be a happy camper. The only thing left to add after that point is total droid conversions