83 réponses à ce sujet

[The Arbiter]

We keep hearing or reading about leaks for Mass Effect Andromeda.  A lot of them state that is game is going to have a heavy emphasis on exploration.  Don't get me wrong, I love games in which I can explore.  But I also love a well done story.  I know they are keeping the story clutched close to their hearts.  But wouldn't they think, fans of Mass Effect (or BioWare in general) would also care and want/prefer such a heavy emphasis on story?

 

Granted, we know nothing, and exploration may just be a key selling point right now... But please, I don't want to be able to just explore, and a weak main story that doesn't hold up.

I was just discussing this with my previous thread wherein I used Skyrim as an example of a purely open sandbox game and had a weak story, then there's Witcher 3 that managed both

[The Arbiter]

Exploration is just a selling point. Of course, story will always be the driving force of BioWare games. I just hope the exploration is implemented well. I'm not really worried about the quality of the story, besides whether it's a trilogy arc or just a standalone game.

You are forgetting on thing though... This is a clean slate and since Bioware is under EA which is well known for taking stupid and risky things... Anything can happen. OP has a good reason to be concerned 

[Onewomanarmy]

Witcher 3 definitely managed to be perfect on pretty much all areas. I love that game. I hope MEA will do at least half as well with the story. Story is more important to me in a game than exploration, that and the romances/great companions.

[The Arbiter]

Probably. I think when you have an approach to game design where you make a game that can be 20 hours long or 100 hours depending on the player, most of that 80 hour content is going to be fluff and not very compelling. I think that's where DAI fell short because it really felt like a 20 hour game with a lot of pointless content that wasn't implemented well.

 

There's nothing wrong with just having a long, ambitious game. TW3 had 50 hours of main story and 50 hours of side content. I never felt that any of the side content was just stale or boring. Although, exploration did get old after a certain amount of time, especially due to how leveling was handled and not being able to kill certain mobs.

 

I really hope MEA doesn't make the mistake of the main story being short and incredibly linear, while planetary exploration is just fluff and largely meaningless.

50 hours of side content?! Bloody game took 130 hours to finish and I still have things to explore and a new DLC quest to beat... Hearts of Stone

[CronoDragoon]

Exploration and story are not mutually exclusive. See many sci-fi stories about exploration. I'm worried that Andromeda might have worlds with nothing to do like ME1, but I'm also worried that people suddenly think NPCs are the only thing that can generate story.

[The Arbiter]

Exploration and story are not mutually exclusive. See many sci-fi stories about exploration. I'm worried that Andromeda might have worlds with nothing to do like ME1, but I'm also worried that people suddenly think NPCs are the only thing that can generate story.

Wait... Aren't stories written by writers? Forgive me, or are you trying to say "kick us into this big open world and do whatever you want because that is your story" imagination? 

[CronoDragoon]

Wait... Aren't stories written by writers? Forgive me, or are you trying to say "kick us into this big open world and do whatever you want because that is your story" imagination? 

 

No, I'm saying that exploration itself can tell a story. Let's take an example from Interstellar: you land on a planet in a shallow sea and see mountains in front and behind you. You want to recover a signal that's bleeping ahead of you, so you zoom up in the Mako and find it's dug into the mud. You start digging it up only to realize those aren't mountains behind and in front of you but giant waves, and the one behind you is approaching alarmingly fast. Using the Mako you can either choose to try and recover what's making the signal and then GTFO or just GTFO as soon as possible. This can all be done without cutscenes.

 

Does this count as story?

[The Arbiter]

No, I'm saying that exploration itself can tell a story. Let's take an example from Interstellar: you land on a planet in a shallow sea and see mountains in front and behind you. You want to recover a signal that's bleeping ahead of you, so you zoom up in the Mako and find it's dug into the mud. You start digging it up only to realize those aren't mountains behind and in front of you but giant waves, and the one behind you is approaching alarmingly fast. Using the Mako you can either choose to try and recover what's making the signal and then GTFO or just GTFO as soon as possible. This can all be done without cutscenes.

Does this count as story?

It still has to be written, planned and coded... Question is, what would the game reward you for recovering a lost signal? Is it under main quests? Side quests? Or just go here and get this quests? Will it have an impact on the outcome of the game for staying to retrieve it? What is the consequence for leaving it?

[Riven326]

Exploration and story are not mutually exclusive. See many sci-fi stories about exploration. I'm worried that Andromeda might have worlds with nothing to do like ME1, but I'm also worried that people suddenly think NPCs are the only thing that can generate story.

If that is the case it will be due to time constraints. ME1 would have had more detailed elaborate uncharted worlds if they had had the time to focus on them. Contrary to what appears to be a fairly popular belief, technology was not the limiting factor.

[Malanek]

"Exploring" tends to ruin a stories pacing for me, at the very least. I'm not sure if it even counts, but I feel the games that have done exploration the best were ones like VtM:Bloodlines and Dishonoured. The exploration was just being able to not follow a rigid path to your goal, but have multiple ways of getting there with lots of nooks and crannies to explore. You were still generally moving towards your goal and not running around mindlessly with no particular purpose or grinding on repetitive "go to these 20 waypoints and click on something" objectives.

 

DA:I was almost acceptable to me because you could skip most of it. The first couple of times I played the game I got bored and gave up but the third time I finished the game in 20 hours. I do feel I left more than 80% of the game completely untouched, but if there is mindless exploring involved, I would definitely prefer to be able to skip it entirely.

 

Also I don't want to have too many objectives on the go at once. 1 main goal and 3 or 4 others. There is no way I can keep track of 20 missions and doing so just means I lose track of the story.

[CronoDragoon]

It still has to be written, planned and coded... Question is, what would the game reward you for recovering a lost signal? Is it under main quests? Side quests? Or just go here and get this quests? Will it have an impact on the outcome of the game for staying to retrieve it? What is the consequence for leaving it?

 

Hm, those are not really important questions to me, but let's say it's a weapon schematic you can't get anywhere else. On an optional planet.

[The Arbiter]

Hm, those are not really important questions to me, but let's say it's a weapon schematic you can't get anywhere else.

Then that's just like exploring the World in the Witcher 3 where you can choose to fight this monster guarding a hidden treasure for greater gear or just gtfo.

[CronoDragoon]

Then that's just like exploring the World in the Witcher 3 where you can choose to fight this monster guarding a hidden treasure for greater gear or just gtfo.

 

Is there only one case of a monster guarding a hidden treasure? The situation I described above is a pretty unique experience.

[The Arbiter]

Is there only one case of a monster guarding a hidden treasure? The situation I described above is a pretty unique experience.

Most of the time treasures are guarded by beasts in the wilderness since well the game's universe is set on medieval monster fantasy, sometimes you find bandits or in ditches with dead persons having a background story for that treasure and you need to retrieve it. On lower difficulties you can ignore them but at higher difficulties, you will need all the gear you can salvage because it contains important diagrams for weapons and powerful potions/potion upgrades

[AlanC9]

The Interstellar example would need a lot more coding,of course.

It still has to be written, planned and coded... Question is, what would the game reward you for recovering a lost signal? Is it under main quests? Side quests? Or just go here and get this quests? Will it have an impact on the outcome of the game for staying to retrieve it? What is the consequence for leaving it?

If I had my way the distinction between main quest and sidequest would be done away with altogether. Failing that, this sort of thing would likely be a sidequest if it's a quest at all, which it probably shouldn't be. Marking stuff as "quests" causes some very strange responses in players.

[CHRrOME]

Exploration and Story can coexist together, and it can be done. CDPR did it with Witcher 3.

Bioware (hell, no one out there) could never achieve this. As many here I too fear ME:A becoming DA:I - exploration and no meaningful story.

 

I really mean it when I say that other companies could learn a heck of a lot from CDPR and what they've done with TW3.

I'd love having both things in Andromeda (story + exploration), but being honest I doubt BW can do both. Not yet at least.

[CronoDragoon]

The Interstellar example would need a lot more coding,of course.
If I had my way the distinction between main quest and sidequest would be done away with altogether. Failing that, this sort of thing would likely be a sidequest if it's a quest at all, which it probably shouldn't be. Marking stuff as "quests" causes some very strange responses in players.

 

The Interstellar example would probably have to be framed as a quest, or at least as the primary objective for the planet, in order to justify getting dropped right into that spot to generate that plot tension.

[Revan Reborn]

50 hours of side content?! Bloody game took 130 hours to finish and I still have things to explore and a new DLC quest to beat... Hearts of Stone

CDPR stated the base game had 50 hours of main story and 50 hours of side content. My amount of game time also far exceeds 100 hours, but it was likely an underestimation for PR purposes so they wouldn't be attacked for over-embellishing.

[wright1978]

Exploration and Story can coexist together, and it can be done. CDPR did it with Witcher 3.
Bioware (hell, no one out there) could never achieve this. As many here I too fear ME:A becoming DA:I - exploration and no meaningful story.
 
I really mean it when I say that other companies could learn a heck of a lot from CDPR and what they've done with TW3.
I'd love having both things in Andromeda (story + exploration), but being honest I doubt BW can do both. Not yet at least.

As much as I like tw3 it's clear to me that story still suffered from the open world nature.

[shodiswe]

I can see exploration adding to the story. Certain resources or knowledge might affect certain story choices.

[Riven326]

Exploration and Story can coexist together, and it can be done. CDPR did it with Witcher 3.

Bioware (hell, no one out there) could never achieve this. As many here I too fear ME:A becoming DA:I - exploration and no meaningful story.

 

I really mean it when I say that other companies could learn a heck of a lot from CDPR and what they've done with TW3.

I'd love having both things in Andromeda (story + exploration), but being honest I doubt BW can do both. Not yet at least.

They were able to do that mostly because there isn't a huge expectation for Dragon Age to have a good story. It started off with the darkspawn for God's sake. It retroactively improves Mass Effect's story by just existing.

[Revan Reborn]

As much as I like tw3 it's clear to me that story still suffered from the open world nature.

The story did suffer to some degree, but I think what's important to note is CDPR executed storytelling and open world in a way that largely worked. For the most part, it seemed seamless.

 

Whenever BGS tried to become more story-driven (dialogue wheel in Fallout 4) or BioWare tried to go more open world (zones in DAI), they both fumbled horrendously and showed their own ineptitude of the differing fields they were coming into. CDPR, at least, combined the two disciplines into a design that made sense with one or the other not seeming entirely out of place. I think it's something that can definitely be improved on, but the point is there is a proven template that a story-driven, open world RPG can, in fact, work.

[SlottsMachine]

I personally enjoyed probing planets with a "low" resource yield for hours on end in the greatest mini-game BioWare has ever made for a game in ME2. Exploration in ME1 was pretty cool too though.

 

 

Yeah, I greatly enjoyed planet scanning as well. You know getting into the nitty-gritty, but for some reason my screen looks different than yours.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Dr. rotinaj]

I felt that the focus on exploration was detrimental to the quality of DA:I. This is my biggest fear for ME:A. I still like DA:I though so I am hopeful.

[Arcian]

We keep hearing or reading about leaks for Mass Effect Andromeda.  A lot of them state that is game is going to have a heavy emphasis on exploration.  Don't get me wrong, I love games in which I can explore.  But I also love a well done story.  I know they are keeping the story clutched close to their hearts.  But wouldn't they think, fans of Mass Effect (or BioWare in general) would also care and want/prefer such a heavy emphasis on story?

 

Granted, we know nothing, and exploration may just be a key selling point right now... But please, I don't want to be able to just explore, and a weak main story that doesn't hold up.

"Exploration" is basically just a buzzword to mask the obvious porting of DAI's garbage open world, pseudo-MMO content.