4 réponses à ce sujet

[Havilah Bee]

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/550020-who-betrayed-mythal/

 

I know this topic has been discussed already, and I've put the link to the previous discussion that I read above. The purpose of this post is to spark discussion with more "evidence" at hand. 

 

In the previous article there is lots of back and forth regarding Flemeth as an iteration of Mythal. While I have no evidence to disprove this, I think it is more likely that Flemeth is a descendent of Andraste, who was an iteration of Mythal, and that our current iteration is none other than Celene. 

 

Had I the time, I would turn this into a pretty looking diagram of sorts. But here we go:

 

PARALLELS BETWEEN MYTHAL/ANDRASTE/CELENE

 

·  All 3 were "betrayed" via some form of murder

·  All 3 were important female figures, Political and/or Religious

·  All 3 hoped for some form of Peace, and Mythal and Celene in particular aimed to do so through negotiation. (Iffy on this one)

·  More than likely, none of them had true sons.

·  All three are suspected to have had "lovers" that were not their betrothed (In celene's case she never was.)

·  Both Mythal and Andraste had 5 “children.” Mythal had the remaining elvhen Pantheon, 3 Gods and 2 Goddesses (minus Ghilan’nain) and Andraste had her 3 adopted sons and 2 daughters.

 

PARALLELS BETWEEN FEN'HAREL/SHARTAN/BRIALA

 

·  All 3 were "involved" with their respective "Mythal Iteration" in one way or another. 
-> Fen'harel is greeted as an "old friend" and there are numerous instances that reinforce the notion that they were close.
-> Shartan is a "follower" of Andraste's and was rumored to be her lover in some instances. 
-> Briala is outright stated as being Celene's lover.

·  All 3 are some form of an "Ambassador" on behalf of Elves and/or Slaves depending on the circumstances of the timelines.

·  All 3 are shown to somehow prefer "radical" change or action (Briala's own words, I believe) as opposed to "negotiations that might not work." (Last part not an actual quote)

·  All 3 lead or are involved in a rebellion of some sort.

 

PARALLELS BETWEEN ???/FLORIANNE/MAFERATH

 

·  Though the purpose of this post is, incidentally, to theorize the identity of "???" (The OG betrayer), one piece of information that can be confirmed is that they are indeed, the one who betrayed Mythal.Thus, all 3 are confirmed betrayers of their respective iterations of Mythal.

·  So far, at least Florianne and Maferath are confirmed "close relatives" of their respective iterations of Mythal.
-> Florianne is straight up Celene’s cousin.
-> Maferath, though not by blood, is Andraste’s closest relative by marriage, AKA her earthly husband. 

·  Florianne and Maferath both had similar motivations, and if it isn’t clear I think its quite an interesting aspect; LAND. They were in it for LAND. Or rather, they wanted to RULE over LAND. There was probably also a little bit of jealously in their too, but mostly it was LAAAAAAND.

·  I reckon both of them were “influenced” by a larger “evil”, Florianne by Corypheus, and Maferath by the Imperium.

This “evidence” or these “congruencies” (if that is even the right word) lead me to believe that Elgar’nan was the betrayer.

I’m not 100% sold on that yet, so please, do try to convince me otherwise.

 

Now, onto part 2:

 

***THE OUTCOME OF THE WINTER PALACE BALL REFLECTS MYTHAL’S FATE***

 

NOTE: This part brings GASPARD into the equation. While I don’t consider him a possible iteration of the betrayer, my mind is subject to change, as there is evidence that proves he might have been conspiring against the Empress.

 

There are 5 outcomes:

 

Celene Ruling Alone

Celene and Briala Rule Together

Public Truce

Gaspard Rules Alone

Briala rules through Gaspard

 

Replace these with the names of the OG Iterations:

 

Mythal rules Alone

Mythal and Fen’Harel rule together

Public Truce

Betrayer rules Alone

Fen’Harel rules through Betrayer

 

The Winter Palace is basically a reenactment of whatever went down with Mythal and everybody in the first place. Except Solas got so upset that he spilt the world in two.

 

So that leaves us with either;

Mythal’s murderer ruling, or Fen’harel using Mythal’s murderer as a front.

 

Given Solas’ actions in inquisition, I’m inclined to think he does not have that sort of power, nor does he necessarily want it. He simply wants the elves to be a free people.  

 

What do you all think?

 

[Xerrai]

Not to rain on your parade, but as of late I don't see "parallels" as that convincing of an argument when it comes to theories like these (no offense). Like, its better than the theories that are based purely on artwork/tarot cards, but many parallels are usually nothing more than the stringing together of several character archetypes/characteristics that just so happen to be similar. This is particularly true of 'epic' events like rebellions, fights against the big bad, changing the world, etc.

 

Unless it has really compelling codex/dialogue/something evidence, the comparison of parallels are usually little better than horoscopes--they describe general characteristics that are usually found in everybody (or many story arcs, in this case).

[Havilah Bee]

Point taken, definitely. Personally I stick to my observations, however. And let me clear up one more thing, by "iteration" I do not mean Mythal reincarnated, I just mean that the theme of her character has been repeated throughout Thedosian history. I'm not trying to imply that Celene is Mythal, just that there are certain characteristics that seem to link the two together, and might help solve the "Who Killed Mythal" puzzle, which will be revealed eventually (I hope). But in the meantime, theorizing and speculation is fun enough. 

 

Also, there is some dialogue evidence but in my current playthrough I'm not anywear near Halamshiral, which is where I found it the first time. Can't recall off the top of my head though.

Modifié par Havilah Bee, 25 février 2016 - 03:59 .

[Gervaise]

Don't really see the comparison really.   Solas maintains that the original Mythal cared for her people and protected them.  Mythal made the other nobles (evanuris) get into line when they threatened them; Falon'Din and Andruil.   Mythal stood for justice.  It was probably upholding it that caused her murder.

 

Celene came to power by allowing assassins to murder her whole house full of servants in order to impress some dreadful old matriarch that she was the right person for the job of Empress.   She only ever gave the elves any concessions because of Briala's influence.   When a noble murdered an innocent elf merchant, the elves rebelled because of the lack of justice in Orlais.   Having tried to deal with the situation by underhanded means; Celene then gets rattled by a blasphemous play about Andraste, which of course is a thinly veiled criticism of herself, and heads off to put down the rebellion to make herself appear tough on the elves to impress the nobles.    It is noticeable that she gives no option of surrender to the elves, sends in a load of Chevaliers to cut down any on the streets and then sets light to the elven slums, burning all that remained within, non combatants and children included.    Because she is hopeless without Briala acting as her intelligence, she didn't realise that heading off to Halamshiral was just what Gaspard wanted her to do so he could ambush her.    The upshot of her actions was the civil war she was trying to avoid.   Plus, after being saved from sylvans by the Dalish Clan, when the Keeper indicated that he wasn't impressed by her bull***t, she lied to Briala (the Keeper hadn't said he was going to kill her)  and left the entire clan to be torn about by the demon her Champion had released.    Celene bears no relation or comparison to Mythal.

[Dai Grepher]

I thought this was about who betrayed Mythal, not who else Mythal was... by proxy.

 

I think Falon'Din got her (or at least caused her death), and Elgar'nan let it happen (or did it himself) because he thought Mythal was messing around on him with Fen'Harel (or maybe she was). And the others celebrated when she was killed. But Fen'Harel was hurt and angered by it.