158 réponses à ce sujet

[shodiswe]

Whatever they do I hope it will be good. They did say the character would be different from Shepard.... Not sure how though. 

[Revan Reborn]

Whatever they do I hope it will be good. They did say the character would be different from Shepard.... Not sure how though. 

Well, for one, the new protagonist isn't a well-established war hero like Shepard. The new protagonist is merely a skilled rookie who is at the start of their military career. As far as anything else, we don't know.

[RoboticWater]

The quality of defined protagonists lives or dies on the shoulders of the writers, so I'm in no way surprised that Bethesda botched Fallout 4's protagonist. However, I don't think we can use their specific failure to set a precedent for BioWare, especially after the Witcher's success. BioWare is known for their writing prowess, mostly when it comes to characters, so I have more than enough confidence that they could create an effective semi-defined protagonist without stepping on too many toes.

 

Now, I never fully sympathized with the fervent negative reaction towards Fallout 4's protagonist. Every RPG involves building a character around a certain framework, and any RPG that has a story will require certain traits or backstories to function, i.e. your character has to have a reason to go to X event or be in Y social position. In the case of the above poster who lamented not being able to be simply homosexual, other people justified such a relationship as a necessity to avoid persecution. I understand that such a backstory would be a greater compromise than most RPG, but I don't see how that fact could ruin the entire experience by itself.

 

I support a more defined protagonist for many reasons, but one of the greatest is that I want BioWare to experiment with story structures other than the hero's journey. They're fairly strict with their adherence to this bland old structure most likely because it eschews any assumed relationships almost immediately, and while that may help roleplaying to some degree, it's been far overdone.

[Riven326]

Don't roleplay a gay character? That'd be my advice to you, it obviously wasn't designed for the mold aka no contradiction. You'd be superimposing what you think the character should be. Completely different thing. Like I said, valid point, just not a contradiction. Me saying it isn't a contradiction doesn't mean I agree with it by the way, but hey like I said Beth FO.

 

They also introduced a dialogue wheel ewww.

It contradicts the very nature of Fallout, which is an open-ended role playing game and has up until now left the sexuality of the protagonist entirely up to the player.

[Revan Reborn]

It contradicts the very nature of Fallout, which is an open-ended role playing game and has up until now left the sexuality of the protagonist entirely up to the player.

In fairness, Fallout 4's setting is a futuristic idealized 1950s America gone wrong. While the games have never breached the social issues of that time entirely (such as racism and Jim Crow), sexuality obviously wasn't something openly explored or accepted. That's not to say that Fallout shouldn't promote open sexuality, but given the plot and where the protagonist came from (before the bombs dropped), it's not unreasonable why BGS decided to make the decisions they did.

 

Of course, the player could always headcanon they were a closet gay and were hiding their sexuality for fear of persecution? It may not be ideal but when you have to define the parameters of a protagonist to some degree, you inevitably lose player agency.

[Master Warder Z_]

It contradicts the very nature of Fallout, which is an open-ended role playing game and has up until now left the sexuality of the protagonist entirely up to the player.

 

o.o

 

Well, that goes into the whole thing of a series being whatever the the developer wants it to be. Just because the company that used to own it made better games doesn't mean that Beth can't shift the character design on a dime and it can be completely fine.

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, for one, the new protagonist isn't a well-established war hero like Shepard. The new protagonist is merely a skilled rookie who is at the start of their military career. As far as anything else, we don't know.

Considering they showed the protagonist's armor and it had an N& insignia on it, we're not going to be a rookie. Unless they do like what Halo: ODST did with Rookie, whom was nicknamed that not because he was green(no ODST ever is) but just not as experienced as the others. Basically it'd be like saying James Vega is a rookie: he's not but he is compared to Shepard. 

 

 

In fairness, Fallout 4's setting is a futuristic idealized 1950s America gone wrong. While the games have never breached the social issues of that time entirely (such as racism and Jim Crow), sexuality obviously wasn't something openly explored or accepted. That's not to say that Fallout shouldn't promote open sexuality, but given the plot and where the protagonist came from (before the bombs dropped), it's not unreasonable why BGS decided to make the decisions they did.

 

Of course, the player could always headcanon they were a closet gay and were hiding their sexuality for fear of persecution? It may not be ideal but when you have to define the parameters of a protagonist to some degree, you inevitably lose player agency.

Your next door neighbors in Fallout 4 are a  lesbian couple, so it's openly explored and accepted in 2077. 

[LinksOcarina]

The quality of defined protagonists lives or dies on the shoulders of the writers, so I'm in no way surprised that Bethesda botched Fallout 4's protagonist. However, I don't think we can use their specific failure to set a precedent for BioWare, especially after the Witcher's success. BioWare is known for their writing prowess, mostly when it comes to characters, so I have more than enough confidence that they could create an effective semi-defined protagonist without stepping on too many toes.

 

Now, I never fully sympathized with the fervent negative reaction towards Fallout 4's protagonist. Every RPG involves building a character around a certain framework, and any RPG that has a story will require certain traits or backstories to function, i.e. your character has to have a reason to go to X event or be in Y social position. In the case of the above poster who lamented not being able to be simply homosexual, other people justified such a relationship as a necessity to avoid persecution. I understand that such a backstory would be a greater compromise than most RPG, but I don't see how that fact could ruin the entire experience by itself.

 

I support a more defined protagonist for many reasons, but one of the greatest is that I want BioWare to experiment with story structures other than the hero's journey. They're fairly strict with their adherence to this bland old structure most likely because it eschews any assumed relationships almost immediately, and while that may help roleplaying to some degree, it's been far overdone.

 

Honestly id argue Geralt as he is written is not that strong of a character. It's really the people around him that fit the bill more in terms of hallmark writing; Geralt came off as a Gary-stu to me in the first two Witcher games.

 

That said, Shepard kind of falls into that gray area of a hybrid protagonist, it is still your character, you shape events and aspects of Shepard's world around them, but Shepard has feelings, emotions, that you can't control fully.

 

It was a balance that honestly, I think they struck a sweet spot with in Mass Effect. Dragon Age II had fantastic writing, but Hawke was a bit tougher to relate to mainly due to the tonal system that needed some tweaking. 

[wright1978]

Honestly id argue Geralt as he is written is not that strong of a character. It's really the people around him that fit the bill more in terms of hallmark writing; Geralt came off as a Gary-stu to me in the first two Witcher games.
 
That said, Shepard kind of falls into that gray area of a hybrid protagonist, it is still your character, you shape events and aspects of Shepard's world around them, but Shepard has feelings, emotions, that you can't control fully.
 
It was a balance that honestly, I think they struck a sweet spot with in Mass Effect. Dragon Age II had fantastic writing, but Hawke was a bit tougher to relate to mainly due to the tonal system that needed some tweaking.

I think they struck a sweet spot prior to me3. Me3 was so far from the sweet spot IMO.

[lightdrago3]

 

Considering they showed the protagonist's armor and it had an N& insignia on it, we're not going to be a rookie. Unless they do like what Halo: ODST did with Rookie, whom was nicknamed that not because he was green(no ODST ever is) but just not as experienced as the others. Basically it'd be like saying James Vega is a rookie: he's not but he is compared to Shepard. 

 

 

Your next door neighbors in Fallout 4 are a  lesbian couple, so it's openly explored and accepted in 2077. 

 

Didn't they say that character in the trailer WASN'T the main character?

[Revan Reborn]

 

Considering they showed the protagonist's armor and it had an N& insignia on it, we're not going to be a rookie. Unless they do like what Halo: ODST did with Rookie, whom was nicknamed that not because he was green(no ODST ever is) but just not as experienced as the others. Basically it'd be like saying James Vega is a rookie: he's not but he is compared to Shepard. 

 

 

Your next door neighbors in Fallout 4 are a  lesbian couple, so it's openly explored and accepted in 2077. 

 

Well honestly, we just don't know enough. BioWare Montreal stated during N7 Day 2014 that the new protagonist was a rookie in the field, yet a talented one. We also know that the new protagonist is in someway affiliated with N7, but BioWare never claimed he was actually N7. As far as the Vega comparison is concerned, he was a rookie in the N7. He had just received his commendation and was being initiated. That could be a similar backstory that the new protagonist goes through. It's unclear what BioWare exactly meant by "rookie," but we definitely aren't a war hero like Shepard already was by the start of ME1.

 

That's a bit of a leap in logic. Don't you think? For example, there a lesbian couples today in the United States. However, gay marriage only became Constitutionally legal last year. Also, about 17 states still have statutes that make sodomy a criminal offense (oral or anal sex) that can lead to 15 years in prison. My point is, just because there is a lesbian couple in the game does not by any stretch of the imagination then me that subject matter is "openly explored and accepted." It could be, but we don't have enough information to make such an argument without further research.

[LinksOcarina]

I think they struck a sweet spot prior to me3. Me3 was so far from the sweet spot IMO.

 

Fair enough, although id argue the emotion Shepard showed in Mass Effect 3 was justified due to narrative reasons. A lot of those moments felt earned at that point, in my opinion at least. 

[Revan Reborn]

Didn't they say that character in the trailer WASN'T the main character?

The character in the E3 trailer is NOT our protagonist. However, our character is somehow affiliated with N7:

 

 

BioWare confirmed that this screenshot is of the new protagonist (male and female) for MEA at Comic Con.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Didn't they say that character in the trailer WASN'T the main character?

Yes, but that's not what I am referring to. I'm referring to their panel at Comic Con 2014 where they showed this image: 

They showed this when talking about the protagonist, and we can clearly see on their upper right arm there is an N7 insignia.

[LinksOcarina]

The character in the E3 trailer is NOT our protagonist. However, our character is somehow affiliated with N7:

 

 

BioWare confirmed that this screenshot is of the new protagonist (male and female) for MEA at Comic Con.

 

My guess is were the guy just out of the N7 Program, if were continuing the N7 trend.

 

Or at the least, N7 has tangentially become a major peacekeeping/explorer force for the Milky Way in the wake of the Reaper War; even in the multiplayer it was N7 Special Operatives who never took the training, but the nickname stuck as a memento.

 

Would be a clever use of tying up that bit of probable lore there, actually. 

[wright1978]

Fair enough, although id argue the emotion Shepard showed in Mass Effect 3 was justified due to narrative reasons. A lot of those moments felt earned at that point, in my opinion at least.

Fair enough. I thought they were a destructive abomination of the previous balance.

[rocklikeafool]

If you want a completely blank slate, go play D&D.

[Ibn_Shisha]

If you want a completely blank slate, go play D&D.

As long as it's not one of WotC's abominations.

[Revan Reborn]

My guess is were the guy just out of the N7 Program, if were continuing the N7 trend.

 

Or at the least, N7 has tangentially become a major peacekeeping/explorer force for the Milky Way in the wake of the Reaper War; even in the multiplayer it was N7 Special Operatives who never took the training, but the nickname stuck as a memento.

 

Would be a clever use of tying up that bit of probable lore there, actually. 

It's possible. However, I'd find it highly unlikely how these guys were able to require N7 gear as well as the Alliance-issued mako. While there's a chance these guys could just be using the N7 brand as a way of paying respects, which Hackett mentioned in ME3 with regard to the MP, I find it more likely this is actually N7. Of course, we won't truly know until BioWare just explains in the game what the heck is going on with Andromeda.

[Vox Draco]

It doesn't matter if you see it or not, the contradiction is there. Please explain to me how to role play a gay character in Fallout 4's opening scene without resorting to "in the closet" headcanon or some **** like that.

 

You can't, and it makes sense - I want to remind you the entire FO-Universe is based on the 50ties, and not jsut for looks and style...the entire US-Morale-Compass didn't change in that game since the Golden Age of the 50ties that much, so I really don't see that pre-apocalypse America being all about equal rights for gays and lesbians at all...

 

Anyway, on topic: I like to spend hours with blank-chars like in Fallout (some of them ^^), or Skyrim. Or Pillars of Eternity. Or whatever. But some of the most memorable scenes I can remember about some RPGs were:

 

My Warden losing her family, then avenging her by killing Arl Howe - better than killing the Archdemon!

Hawke solving the disappearance of her mother ...

Shepard having a little call with her mom - damn, I wish it had more of that!

 

In such a cinematic game and all like Mass Effect? A blank slate would look terribly out of place ... which doesnT' mean we need an entire detailed background, but some friends, aquaintances along the way from old days? Sure, those last 20-30 years we probably have had some interactions with other people now and then

[Riven326]

You can't, and it makes sense - I want to remind you the entire FO-Universe is based on the 50ties, and not jsut for looks and style...the entire US-Morale-Compass didn't change in that game since the Golden Age of the 50ties that much, so I really don't see that pre-apocalypse America being all about equal rights for gays and lesbians at all...

They weren't trying to make some sort of historically-correct 1950's with Fallout 4. So it's just a convenient excuse.

[CuriousArtemis]

Whatever they do I hope it will be good. They did say the character would be different from Shepard.... Not sure how though. 

 

I'm hoping for more of a rebel / outlaw type character. I'm ashamed to say I already have a name and a look for my character  Talk about setting myself up for disappointment! Though I'm trying to keep myself within the realm of reality that is BioWare's CC. So, a macho-looking dude with short black hair lol

 

Well, for one, the new protagonist isn't a well-established war hero like Shepard. The new protagonist is merely a skilled rookie who is at the start of their military career. As far as anything else, we don't know.

 

I was going to ask if we know whether or not they're in the military but I guess that's already been answered? Also, is it confirmed that our named will be Ryder or did I make that up?

 

Of course, the player could always headcanon they were a closet gay and were hiding their sexuality for fear of persecution? It may not be ideal but when you have to define the parameters of a protagonist to some degree, you inevitably lose player agency.

 

Yeah and it's always the people wanting to build "minority" characters... non-white, LGBT, etc. Default seems to always be straight, white (remember BioWare's puke-tastic excuse for DA:O, "the engine can't handle dark skin"), male (thank god we almost always have gender choice nowadays).

 

Didn't they say that character in the trailer WASN'T the main character?

 

Yeah pretty sure.

 

If you want a completely blank slate, go play D&D.

 

Or Dragon's Dogma  Which is one of my favorite games, but yeah lol You are basically making the whole thing up in your head xD

 

You can't, and it makes sense - I want to remind you the entire FO-Universe is based on the 50ties, and not jsut for looks and style...the entire US-Morale-Compass didn't change in that game since the Golden Age of the 50ties that much, so I really don't see that pre-apocalypse America being all about equal rights for gays and lesbians at all...

 

Well as I understand it you can make a black character in this universe and no one hurls racial slurs at you or refuses to sit next to you or eat from the same restaurant as you, etc. Because I hate to break it to you, but the 50s weren't just cruel and gross towards LGBT folks...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I'm hoping for more of a rebel / outlaw type character. I'm ashamed to say I already have a name and a look for my character  Talk about setting myself up for disappointment!

They should set up a back story to define and customize the main character's personality, instead of a bland lifeless character.

[Revan Reborn]

I was going to ask if we know whether or not they're in the military but I guess that's already been answered? Also, is it confirmed that our named will be Ryder or did I make that up?

 

 

Yeah and it's always the people wanting to build "minority" characters... non-white, LGBT, etc. Default seems to always be straight, white (remember BioWare's puke-tastic excuse for DA:O, "the engine can't handle dark skin"), male (thank god we almost always have gender choice nowadays).

Based on what we know, it definitely appears our new protagonist is connected to the military. We know the protagonist is somehow affiliated with the N7 program as well, and that he/she is a skilled rookie. So, take from that what you will. Based on that connection as well as the fact we are using the mako, which is an Alliance-commissioned vehicle, I'd say it's safe to assume we are apart of the military (specifically the Alliance since we are human) in MEA. I believe the Pathfinders are just an expeditionary force created for the purpose of discovering new worlds.

 

Nothing has been confirmed by BioWare that the protagonist's surname is "Ryder." Other than the easter egg in the MEA N7 Day Teaser and the clever use of "Ghost Riders in the Sky" by Johnny Cash in the E3 2015, we have no reason to believe our name is Ryder. In fact, we know that the character in the E3 2015 trailer is not the protagonist as BioWare confirmed that. Whether we are actually Ryder is something we'll eventually find out, but the name is clearly connected to MEA and an integral part of the story.

[Midnight Bliss]

If you want a completely blank slate, go play D&D.

QTF!!